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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 / F36 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #176  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:53 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Originally Posted by Newton2001 View Post
Here's what I mean with the attached pictures:
- E92 : retractable headrest
- F32: fixed headrest
Wow- never noticed that before. That is kind of cheesy. Of course, Telsa gets away with this in 100k+ cars. And speaking of interiors, if you want to feel better about your 50k 3 series looking cheap check out a Tesla Model S. After you get over being dazzled by the gigantic screen, you realize its a 30k interior in a 100k car!
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  #177  
Old 11-18-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Cal, perhaps you might re-read what I wrote. They charged me nothing, I feel like I earned back $50 by eating and drinking their food in such quantities as I pursued.
That's what I understood too. I wish I had known about this event at Otto for the free booze and free food.
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  #178  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
Wow- never noticed that before. That is kind of cheesy. Of course, Telsa gets away with this in 100k+ cars. And speaking of interiors, if you want to feel better about your 50k 3 series looking cheap check out a Tesla Model S. After you get over being dazzled by the gigantic screen, you realize its a 30k interior in a 100k car!
You're right, and I agree with you.

Though my point was a comparison between the previous version of the car and its direct competitor which is the Audi A5/S5...
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  #179  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Newton2001 View Post
Here's what I mean with the attached pictures:
- E92 : retractable headrest
- F32: fixed headrest
Count your blessings, the E36 didn't even have rear headrests!
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  #180  
Old 11-18-2013, 01:55 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Hi all,

I attended a launch party for the 4-series, x5, and 328gt this past weekend held by Ottos BMW. Nice event, really done up right. I think I made $50 back from Ottos on the amount of liquor and food I consumed

Anyway, the 4-series is a stunning car on the outside. The inside is overall pretty standard BMW 3 affair and nicely laid out. Bit sexier when standing back.

When I got in, some pieces jumped out at me as downgraded and I was quite surprised. I was there with one of my closest friends, a car guy who is currently evaluating the CLA, ATS, 3-series, and other $35-50k vehicles - so very familiar with the class.

1. The visors look so so, but feel very cheap and plasticky. This is clearly a downgraded part from a few years ago. It feels like a 2011 1-series visor.

2. The headliner is this el-cheapo vinyl mesh over a padded cloth. It looks and feels like it belongs in a 2006 scion tC, which I'm pretty sure I saw it in previously used as a seat covering. This includes the a-pillars, so directly in line of sight.

3. The door card is, perhaps, the same as the f30 and may have just felt even thinner than previously. What's striking me now is that this particular optioned up $61k 4-series is now solidly above the cost of a Porsche boxster, for example. This should not pass muster in this vehicle anymore.

The main stuff has been done right, but a lot of little (and large items like the headliner) just feel a cut below this level of vehicle.
As an E90 and E93 owner I can say emphatically that none of the materials in the interior were downgraded. They are the same. Not worse, not better, the same.

When discussing the F interiors, one should focus on the much more important big picture. For only a few dollars more (adjusted for inflation) each 3 Series now comes with:

iDrive as standard equipment.
Premium sound system as standard equipment.
HD Radio as standard equipment.
Bluetooth as standard equipment.
BMW Assist as standard equipment.
Instrument cluster with enhanced contents.
Black plastic reduction on the center stack.
Gloss chrome console trim.
Aluminum electronic auto shifter.
Thicker, contoured steering wheel.
Enhanced ambient lighting with red/white option.
Superior cup holders w/tray cover option.
Larger air vents for superior cooling.
Curved instrumentaion surfacing for cockpit feel.
Hidden compartment beneath headlamp switch.
Auto dimming exterior mirrors
Auto dimming rearview mirror
Universal garage door opener
Power seats w/memory
Split & fold down rear seats

And if you think about it, it does not make any sense that BMW would cut, for example, $0.50 cents out of the quality of a headliner when they're giving thousands of dollars worth of options now as standard equipment.

BJ
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  #181  
Old 11-18-2013, 04:23 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And if you think about it, it does not make any sense that BMW would cut, for example, $0.50 cents out of the quality of a headliner when they're giving thousands of dollars worth of options now as standard equipment.

BJ
Actually, I disagree there. That's precisely what they do. IMO "back in the day" the quality was more engineering driven for all cars, i.e the details were clearly payed attention to. Now, the "big stuff" is upgraded, for marketing purposes, and natural evolution of tech/specifications getting cheaper as time goes on, but they cost cut the littlest of details, the bean counters are all over it.

My '06 E Class had cloth all along the lower B Pillar, cloth weather strippings, nice/classy almost "wool" like headliner/A pillar material, a nicely finished trunk interior, etc. Then my 2010/2011 E Classes had "more wood, more stitching", etc. but the details were ransacked and left for dead. The lower B Pillar was a horribly cheap plastic, the upper portion of the trunk interior (where you never look) looked like someone stripped the car at a body shop and forgot to re-install the nice covers (exposed metal, wires, dripped paint, etc.), the headliner was a sandpaper like material and the weather stripping went to a rubberized plastic, not to mention the carpets and floormats got thinner and cheaper, and the visors got thin and non-substantial feeling. More exposed metal and screws (which the F30/F32 also suffer from according to drivers of the previous gens), etc. run rampant, however the average person who'll sit in the new and previous E Classes will take the bait right from marketing and find the new one more "premium" because "premium" is more spoken by design than by actual material selection in many cases these days. Of course, modernized elements and technology go a long way to verifiably push that factor as well. That's not to say that materials AREN'T improved at all on the new generations. Many of them are, but the details suffer as the costs have to be balanced out somewhere.

I find the F10 mostly improved absolutely everything from the E60 inside, but the F30 seems to follow this modern "selective cost cutting to make up for upgrades thus maintaining margins" trend. Perhaps a lot of that has to do with the fact that if I'm not mistaken, the F30 launched a new chassis that wasn't being used on an existing car before it, and the F10 benefitted in this regard by using an already developed 7 Series chassis, which saved it a ton of R&D, allowing BMW to not cut as many costs elsewhere.
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Last edited by K-A; 11-18-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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  #182  
Old 11-18-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
As an E90 and E93 owner I can say emphatically that none of the materials in the interior were downgraded. They are the same. Not worse, not better, the same.

When discussing the F interiors, one should focus on the much more important big picture. For only a few dollars more (adjusted for inflation) each 3 Series now comes with:

iDrive as standard equipment.
Premium sound system as standard equipment.
HD Radio as standard equipment.
Bluetooth as standard equipment.
BMW Assist as standard equipment.
Instrument cluster with enhanced contents.
Black plastic reduction on the center stack.
Gloss chrome console trim.
Aluminum electronic auto shifter.
Thicker, contoured steering wheel.
Enhanced ambient lighting with red/white option.
Superior cup holders w/tray cover option.
Larger air vents for superior cooling.
Curved instrumentaion surfacing for cockpit feel.
Hidden compartment beneath headlamp switch.
Auto dimming exterior mirrors
Auto dimming rearview mirror
Universal garage door opener
Power seats w/memory
Split & fold down rear seats

And if you think about it, it does not make any sense that BMW would cut, for example, $0.50 cents out of the quality of a headliner when they're giving thousands of dollars worth of options now as standard equipment.

BJ
Most of that equipment was standard in the E90 by EOP. And some of that equipment in the F30 became standard only after a $1600 or so price hike (power seats, split/fold down seats).

Now, if you look at premium materials -like wood or real aluminum trim- their amount was diminished considerably in the F30 compared with the E90. From a full center console trim to a strip, from a full width dash to 60% at the most, to full length of the doors to just a short diagonal strip.

The Lord giveth and the Lord hath taken away. Or something like that.
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  #183  
Old 11-18-2013, 05:32 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by technic View Post
most of that equipment was standard in the e90 by eop. And some of that equipment in the f30 became standard only after a $1600 or so price hike (power seats, split/fold down seats).

Now, if you look at premium materials -like wood or real aluminum trim- their amount was diminished considerably in the f30 compared with the e90. From a full center console trim to a strip, from a full width dash to 60% at the most, to full length of the doors to just a short diagonal strip.

The lord giveth and the lord hath taken away. Or something like that.
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  #184  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:38 PM
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Let's face it, the great engineering company that BMW once was has been overcome by bean counters intent on profit margin and more importantly market share. BMW enthusiasts make up a small percentage of the market share. The majority is now the indiscernible public who want a BMW for the marquee or cache and will never notice the cost cutting in quality here and there nor will they ever care.

When my 2014 428i M-sport arrives I will pass judgment on the driving dynamics and I surely hope this impresses me. I'm hoping the soul of BMW is still present, I can live with a little cost cutting here and there albeit I rather not.
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Last edited by Christos; 11-18-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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  #185  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:28 PM
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4-series - some interior materials downgraded?

Their is no difference between f30 and the e90 when it comes interior materials. The cheapness moved to different areas of the interior


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  #186  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:02 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Most of that equipment was standard in the E90 by EOP. And some of that equipment in the F30 became standard only after a $1600 or so price hike (power seats, split/fold down seats).

Now, if you look at premium materials -like wood or real aluminum trim- their amount was diminished considerably in the F30 compared with the E90. From a full center console trim to a strip, from a full width dash to 60% at the most, to full length of the doors to just a short diagonal strip.

The Lord giveth and the Lord hath taken away. Or something like that.
I had a 2011 E90 328 and hardly any of that was std equipment. Thin steering wheel, no iDrive, no Bluetooth, no BMW Assist, cheap feeling cupholders. no power seats, no folding rear seats, no garage opener, etc. Not sure where you are getting this. Maybe you are thinking of the 335 which has always had more std content.

My 2014 328i Sport Line retailed for over $6K more than my basic E90 328 yet I pay only $20.00 more per month on an equivalent lease for much more car. Part of that is due to better negotiating skills on my part but there is no doubt that a base F30 is better equipped than a base E90.
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  #187  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:37 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I had a 2011 E90 328 and hardly any of that was std equipment. Thin steering wheel, no iDrive, no Bluetooth, no BMW Assist, cheap feeling cupholders. no power seats, no folding rear seats, no garage opener, etc. Not sure where you are getting this. Maybe you are thinking of the 335 which has always had more std content.

My 2014 328i Sport Line retailed for over $6K more than my basic E90 328 yet I pay only $20.00 more per month on an equivalent lease for much more car. Part of that is due to better negotiating skills on my part but there is no doubt that a base F30 is better equipped than a base E90.
+1

What's actually going on here are two major shifts for BMW that have nothing to do with bean counting:

1. To survive, BMW has to compete with car companies that have both low-end and luxury market offerings (Acura to Honda, VW to Audi).

2. The tight handling and responsive steering are no longer standard equipment (you have to pay for them now).

For the first time, a 3 Series now comes in a "comfort" configuration so that Mr. & Mrs. $399 A Month can ride a car that feels luxurious and has features that have been standard for years on any car in its class like garage door openers, power seats, and auto-dimming mirrors. It isn't "cost cutting". It's a trade off. With the E90, thousands of potential BMW buyers were turned off by the lack of basic amenities found on $20,000 Kia's and had harsh suspensions and truck-like steering shoved down their throats. It's the opposite now. Instead of paying $3,000 for power seats and garage door openers and having leather you didn't want, you give up the 6 cylinder engine and the suspension parts and you can have it just as you like it.

The argument becomes moot either way. Hate the F30 because it is too comfy. Hate the E90 because it is too spartan. Doesn't matter. The F30 is so configurable and so capable of being personalized that there's zero excuse for anyone to be upset. Those who besmirch the F30 do so for one reason- BMW makes them pay for the ride now, costs more. Well, if you can't fork over the few grand to make an F30 into the Ultimate Driving Machine, you shouldn't have been driving a $50,000 German luxury car to begin with.

BJ
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  #188  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:43 PM
Christos Christos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
+1

What's actually going on here are two major shifts for BMW that have nothing to do with bean counting:

1. To survive, BMW has to compete with car companies that have both low-end and luxury market offerings (Acura to Honda, VW to Audi).

2. The tight handling and responsive steering are no longer standard equipment (you have to pay for them now).

For the first time, a 3 Series now comes in a "comfort" configuration so that Mr. & Mrs. $399 A Month can ride a car that feels luxurious and has features that have been standard for years on any car in its class like garage door openers, power seats, and auto-dimming mirrors. It isn't "cost cutting". It's a trade off. With the E90, thousands of potential BMW buyers were turned off by the lack of basic amenities found on $20,000 Kia's and had harsh suspensions and truck-like steering shoved down their throats. It's the opposite now. Instead of paying $3,000 for power seats and garage door openers and having leather you didn't want, you give up the 6 cylinder engine and the suspension parts and you can have it just as you like it.

The argument becomes moot either way. Hate the F30 because it is too comfy. Hate the E90 because it is too spartan. Doesn't matter. The F30 is so configurable and so capable of being personalized that there's zero excuse for anyone to be upset. Those who besmirch the F30 do so for one reason- BMW makes them pay for the ride now, costs more. Well, if you can't fork over the few grand to make an F30 into the Ultimate Driving Machine, you shouldn't have been driving a $50,000 German luxury car to begin with.

BJ
Interesting point of view with valid points. They must adapt or be overcome
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  #189  
Old 11-18-2013, 08:46 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Actually, I disagree there. That's precisely what they do. IMO "back in the day" the quality was more engineering driven for all cars, i.e the details were clearly payed attention to. Now, the "big stuff" is upgraded, for marketing purposes, and natural evolution of tech/specifications getting cheaper as time goes on, but they cost cut the littlest of details, the bean counters are all over it.
Yes, the days of premium cars being built to a higher standard probably ended with 80s German cars. If you run some numbers through a CPI calculator it is inevitable. Adjusted for inflation, prices have not increased while equipment, safety, room, and performance have increased dramatically. For example, a 1991 318is, would've been 22k which is the equivalent of nearly 40k now! That will buy you a 328i sportline now with 100 more hp, way more saftety, more room than an 80s 5 series and probably greater reliablity as well. And atleast in the case of BMW, I think the cheapness has just moved around the interior since atleast the e36 (which was a low mark for perceived quality in a BMW).
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  #190  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:51 PM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is online now
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So, here's the interior from the 2015 C-Class:



Now, how is the interior of the F3X not a bit of a drag?

Another iPad nav unit though. I'm sort of surprised at that.
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  #191  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:55 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
So, here's the interior from the 2015 C-Class:



Now, how is the interior of the F3X not a bit of a drag?

Another iPad nav unit though. I'm sort of surprised at that.
Looks great but it's a rendering and many have complained about the tacked on look of the nav/control screen. Last, has Mercedes stopped putting gear selectors on the console?
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  #192  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
So, here's the interior from the 2015 C-Class:



Now, how is the interior of the F3X not a bit of a drag?

Another iPad nav unit though. I'm sort of surprised at that.
As my wife said. They made the new C class interior look cheaper than the current one. In fact she hates enough she won't stay with the C class when her lease is up. The screen looks tacked on, the vents look cheaper, and the lack of a gear shift in the enter console makes it like a 1980's Oldsmobile.

I dislike it as much as I do the CLA. But we love her current generation C Class with the AMG package of leather red stitching and suede on the seats and doors.
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  #193  
Old 11-19-2013, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
So, here's the interior from the 2015 C-Class:



Now, how is the interior of the F3X not a bit of a drag?

Another iPad nav unit though. I'm sort of surprised at that.
I guess that the new German thing is to style their mid-level sedan interiors as much as possible like their entry-level car.
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  #194  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:20 PM
Kayani_1 Kayani_1 is offline
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Looks great to me. I think the BMW NAV also looks tacked on. They went away from it being molded into the dash in last generation cars to tack on style on top of the dash. So no real advantage for BMW their.

As for the shifter in automatic cars being on center tunnel. I think it is point less. Since all you do is shift into D and leave it there. If you do change gears in automatic yourself it is always through the paddle shifter barely anyone ever uses the bottom mounted shifter.
The shifter on center tunnel makes sense only for 6-speed/7 speed manual where you have to shift gears for yourself.

One of the things I liked about the E65 7 series that I owned was that there was no useless automatic shifter sticking out through middle center tunnel. Instead that space went for much nicer and larger cup holders that were actually use able and one of the largest centrally cooled and heated center armrest and storage space.

Back to MB interior it looks great. Do wish that both on BMW and MB the NAV was molded into the top area of the dash.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
So, here's the interior from the 2015 C-Class:



Now, how is the interior of the F3X not a bit of a drag?

Another iPad nav unit though. I'm sort of surprised at that.
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  #195  
Old 11-19-2013, 08:50 PM
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I'm guessing they did the NAV like this on both BMW and MB is so your eyes don't veer very far down from the road view.
In this case.... it's a function over form, and I can buy into it.
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  #196  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:06 PM
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I HATE these tacked-on looking screens. They look so cheap and unresolved. I guarantee that all the new interiors coming out with it will look extremely dated in the future. As for the M-B column shifter.... a lot of it has to do with image and feeling, and frankly when you drive an M-B with a column shifter you feel like you're driving Gramps' car. As some magazine said, "the car has a column shifter and it drives like it". It just gives off an impression. It's fine for a soft Luxury car, but is the antithesis to "sexy". IMO the C should have kept it and left the larger models to the more stereotypically-"geriatrically-themed" column shifter.
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  #197  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:46 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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I'm guessing they did the NAV like this on both BMW and MB is so your eyes don't veer very far down from the road view.
In this case.... it's a function over form, and I can buy into it.
I don't buy into it. You still have to take your eyes off the road to look at the screen. The fact that it is an inch or two higher does not change that fact.
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  #198  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:23 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I HATE these tacked-on looking screens. They look so cheap and unresolved. I guarantee that all the new interiors coming out with it will look extremely dated in the future. As for the M-B column shifter.... a lot of it has to do with image and feeling, and frankly when you drive an M-B with a column shifter you feel like you're driving Gramps' car. As some magazine said, "the car has a column shifter and it drives like it". It just gives off an impression. It's fine for a soft Luxury car, but is the antithesis to "sexy". IMO the C should have kept it and left the larger models to the more stereotypically-"geriatrically-themed" column shifter.
The MB apporach makes the F30 look well ntegrated. Really looks like someone bought an android tablet and suction-cupped it on the dash here.
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  #199  
Old 11-20-2013, 03:30 AM
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3284me 3284me is offline
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Lost me with the round vents, ugly and cheap looking.
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  #200  
Old 11-20-2013, 04:25 AM
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mwm1166 mwm1166 is offline
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Lost me with the round vents, ugly and cheap looking.
bad aren't they.
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