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  #26  
Old 06-17-2004, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren
You could do this with SMG but I still don't think it will be as fast off the line.
It's not effective.

Yes I've tried.

You have to just have patience and blip the throttle. I've gotten it to ease the clutch in at 3500 RPMs with makes for a very enjoyable launch. I need to spend a while practicing so I can do it consistently.
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  #27  
Old 06-17-2004, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
... I need to spend a while practicing so I can do it consistently.
And then show me how
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2004, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren
And then show me how
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2004, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumratt
Do you guys double clutch when going into first in an autocross, or just heel-toe rev match and jam it in?

just heel-toe rev match and jam it in you can't be a wuss about it

unlike at a track you generally don't have the time to double clutch in an autox, at least not if you want to have quick times
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2004, 04:48 AM
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I think part of the problem is with the SO4s. they seem to have very poor launch traction. Even the LTW with the stock 3.23 rear, it spins the tires pretty easily on the launch.

And Nick, the trick will be to learn when launch control comes off, andlearnt o take your foot off the floor just before this happens.

Andy, the SMG in the Z4 is a totally different system as the E46 M3 SMG. It isn't really a high performance setup.
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  #31  
Old 06-19-2004, 09:03 AM
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it's not like it grinds or anything, double-clutching should not be required for todays transmissions, most have dual if not triple synchros on the lower gears
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2004, 10:35 AM
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Getting reverse instead of 1st when downshifting is possible. I managed to do this once in an e36 325i about 10 years ago.

It was during a slalom as I entered a very tight 180 degree turn. I applied a little too much sideways pressure while going for 1st. It felt a little funny going in but it went in smoothly without any grunching or grinding noises. When I let the clutch out, the car instantly spun.

I actually managed to get the clutch back in without stalling the engine which surprised me, but the run was ruined. No apparent damage was done to the car and a friend of mine now owns it with more than 150k miles on the odo. Maybe I was lucky or maybe I just got the clutch back in quickly enough.

I'm still kind of surprised that I was able to get reverse as easily as I did.
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2004, 11:33 AM
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I don't know how you more-skilled guys shift in autocross, but I'd imagine it'd be pretty hard to get into reverse with the ZHP's shifter. For me, to go to reverse, I put my palm a few inches to the right of the knob and slap it over to the left, then push up, whereas going to 1st/2nd shouldn't take much horizontal force at all.

BMW's 6-speed box has triple-synchros on 1st and 2nd and a synchro on reverse.

And when going into 3rd or 4th, just push in vertical directions only (up or down) and the stick will recenter itself quickly. Though maybe that's too slow for autocross.
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2004, 12:37 PM
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My 330i is noticeably more difficult to get into reverse than my friend's e36 325i. I think there would be much less likelihood of finding reverse by accident in my ZHP.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2004, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregD
Getting reverse instead of 1st when downshifting is possible. I managed to do this once in an e36 325i about 10 years ago.

It was during a slalom as I entered a very tight 180 degree turn. I applied a little too much sideways pressure while going for 1st. It felt a little funny going in but it went in smoothly without any grunching or grinding noises. When I let the clutch out, the car instantly spun.

I actually managed to get the clutch back in without stalling the engine which surprised me, but the run was ruined. No apparent damage was done to the car and a friend of mine now owns it with more than 150k miles on the odo. Maybe I was lucky or maybe I just got the clutch back in quickly enough.

I'm still kind of surprised that I was able to get reverse as easily as I did.
Are you absolutely certain that it went into reverse and not first? Putting it into first and letting the clutch out without the right revs can easily cause an instant spin because the rear wheels can lock up or start spinning at much less than road speed.

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  #36  
Old 06-19-2004, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ·clyde·
Are you absolutely certain that it went into reverse and not first? Putting it into first and letting the clutch out without the right revs can easily cause an instant spin because the rear wheels can lock up or start spinning at much less than road speed.

Yes, I have enough experience to know the difference. Mismatching revs is nowhere near as dramatic as what occurred. The only thing similar I have ever experienced is when I had a timing chain break on a Lotus which locked up the rear tires on the freeway at about 70MPH. That was kind of exciting and I had to get the clutch in quck for that one too. What a horrible sound the engine made.
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2004, 08:22 PM
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my first event in the Z4 required a shift to 3rd and then back down into 2nd

the first run I couldn't get it to go into 2nd gear , to the point I almost slowed to a stop before finally getting it to engage

on my 2nd run, same spot, I caught myself going over too far into the reverse shift gate, not all the way over but just enough to be past the 2nd gear drop gate so that's why it wouldn't go down into the gear
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregD
Yes, I have enough experience to know the difference. Mismatching revs is nowhere near as dramatic as what occurred. The only thing similar I have ever experienced is when I had a timing chain break on a Lotus which locked up the rear tires on the freeway at about 70MPH. That was kind of exciting and I had to get the clutch in quck for that one too. What a horrible sound the engine made.

Depending on conditions it can be just as exciting. And it doesn't even have to be into 1st. It can be pretty dramatic downshifting into 3rd at the end of along straight with not enough blip. BT, DT, went around so fast it surprised me.
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2004, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
I think part of the problem is with the SO4s. they seem to have very poor launch traction. Even the LTW with the stock 3.23 rear, it spins the tires pretty easily on the launch.

And Nick, the trick will be to learn when launch control comes off, andlearnt o take your foot off the floor just before this happens.

Andy, the SMG in the Z4 is a totally different system as the E46 M3 SMG. It isn't really a high performance setup.
That still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a 2.2 versus a 1.74 60' time.
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  #40  
Old 06-21-2004, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamZ4
my first event in the Z4 required a shift to 3rd and then back down into 2nd

the first run I couldn't get it to go into 2nd gear , to the point I almost slowed to a stop before finally getting it to engage

on my 2nd run, same spot, I caught myself going over too far into the reverse shift gate, not all the way over but just enough to be past the 2nd gear drop gate so that's why it wouldn't go down into the gear
I've hit the reverse gate trying to shift up to second gear from first . Lesson learned: don't try to shift in a corner.

John
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  #41  
Old 06-22-2004, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
That still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a 2.2 versus a 1.74 60' time.
I haven't palyed with Launch control at all. I have only tried it once or twice. I don't recall it kicking off until the upshift to 2nd.

The ability to launch at 3500 - 4000 RPM versus 1800 is a BIG difference. But I am surprised at the difference.

We need to get to the drag strip with a manual M3 and one of our SMGs, and run the same tires on the same track and see the difference.

I wonder when cecil County has oepn track time? And Alex has a manual.
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  #42  
Old 06-22-2004, 07:50 AM
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Josh and I plan to do that ASAP.

I also need to spend some time there doing testing on Hohos. I need to learn how to launch on them. It is definitely more difficult than street tires, which doesn't help.
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  #43  
Old 06-22-2004, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone

I wonder when cecil County has open track time?
I think some of the team.bar guys go up on Friday nights from time to time.

edit: Capital would be a lot closer for Nick and Josh though.

edit again: Found some links...

http://www.cecilcountydragway.com/fl...cdschedule.pdf

http://www.capitolraceway.com/capitols_schedule.htm

Last edited by bren; 06-22-2004 at 09:02 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-22-2004, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren
I think some of the team.bar guys go up on Friday nights from time to time.

edit: Capital would be a lot closer for Nick and Josh though.

edit again: Found some links...

http://www.cecilcountydragway.com/fl...cdschedule.pdf

http://www.capitolraceway.com/capitols_schedule.htm
What is a "Speed Unlimited ET Brackets" event? Is that just bracket racing?

From their description of the Fri. Night Test and Tune, it sounds like a mad house. 385 cars? I wonder how many runs you can realistically expect in 5 hours? One? Two?
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  #45  
Old 06-22-2004, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JST
What is a "Speed Unlimited ET Brackets" event? Is that just bracket racing?

From their description of the Fri. Night Test and Tune, it sounds like a mad house. 385 cars? I wonder how many runs you can realistically expect in 5 hours? One? Two?
I think the "Speed Unlimited" thing is a competetive series. Not sure if you can just show up and join in.

It reads like they have been "trying" to get everyone 1 run on Friday nights.

I don't know who does the websites for either of these places but they are nearly impossible to understand.
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  #46  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bren
I think the "Speed Unlimited" thing is a competetive series. Not sure if you can just show up and join in.

It reads like they have been "trying" to get everyone 1 run on Friday nights.

I don't know who does the websites for either of these places but they are nearly impossible to understand.
One of these days, I plan on heading up to a Test and Tune at Cecil County just to check it out, since I'm not far away. I'll let you know what the madness looks like.

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  #47  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:18 AM
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if you're having issues with traction off the line with S04's then your rear air pressures are probably too high; I think they hook up great
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  #48  
Old 06-22-2004, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamZ4
if you're having issues with traction off the line with S04's then your rear air pressures are probably too high; I think they hook up great
I think the problem is that I can't control the rate at which my clutch engages very easily.

I dropped my pressures back down and stiffened the front sway up. Bsed on the rear tire sidewall flex I'm seeing in the videos, I think if I went any lower than 30 PSI, I might start dragging the wheel.
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  #49  
Old 06-22-2004, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamZ4
if you're having issues with traction off the line with S04's then your rear air pressures are probably too high; I think they hook up great

Agree. Much, much better then the Kumho Ecsta V700s!!
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  #50  
Old 06-27-2004, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BahnBaum
One of these days, I plan on heading up to a Test and Tune at Cecil County just to check it out, since I'm not far away. I'll let you know what the madness looks like.

Alex
Let us know.

I wonder how much to go up one week day and rent the place? Maybe a BMW drag day?
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