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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 01-26-2014, 10:14 PM
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For the record, a similar thread was opened today:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Uneven tire wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw530ii View Post
Hey everybody. Today I was looking at my tires and noticed that my inner rear tires are wearing out unevenly. What's going on? The front tires are good.

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  #52  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:59 AM
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For the related record, an interesting thread, with good details, was opened today, by Fudman:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Should I Attempt a Rear Alignment DIY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
Just got new "shoes" for my car (Conti DWS). As part of the installation package, they gave me a front alignment (Hunter) and measured the back. My rear camber is a bit out of spec at -2.3 L & -2.4 R deg. Bentley's says -2.0 deg and the Hunter spec calls for -2.0 to -2.2 deg. However, my toe is worse at -0.20 L and 0.25 R. Bentley's says total toe is 22' +/-4' and Hunter spec calls for 0.15 - 0.22 deg.

I can bring it back and have them adjust the rear for $50 or I can DIY for free. Normally, I would never consider doing an alignment. However, I'm thinking about adjusting the rear toe myself and possibly reducing the rear camber to 1 deg (I don't really need the improvements to handling). While my alignment "tools" clearly lack the precision of a Hunter, my concerns about a DIY alignment are considerably less now that the car is older. I do have a few questions: Will making adjustments to the rear axle affect the front axle settings? Am I being penny wise and pound foolish (some might say cheapskate), since the tires cost $600 for the set?
See also the recent related thread:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Yet another...Front Wheel Alignment..Thread..with a possible solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aa240sx View Post
this guy over on the M5 forum seems to have come up with a hackjob method of adjusting front camber without having to buy a camber correction kit.
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ut-plates.html

Having just installed my third set of front tires due to really bad inner tire wear in roughly 4 years, I'm open to trying just about anything and reaming out the strut holes to make the camber adjustment seems viable.
I should point out that I did do a semi complete front suspension overhaul a couple years ago, but that I am riding on coilovers and no, I don't wish to switch back to stock ride height on stock struts as a solution.
An interesting corollary here is I did the alignment front and rear myself and the rear tires are wearing perfectly and show no signs of wearing out at least for another year or so. The nice thing about the rear suspension on these cars is that they do provide an eccentric bolt to adjust camber.

Thoughts?
If I were to do this what I am currently experiencing is really bad inner tire wear (front tires only) which I assume is attributable to a combination of toe and negative camber.
Which way should the top strut holes be reamed to introduce more positive camber, say at least 1 degree if not more? I assume these holes should be reamed towards the outer fenders and not towards the engine.
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Last edited by bluebee; 03-27-2014 at 04:14 AM.
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  #53  
Old 03-26-2014, 10:58 AM
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Change the rear ball joints, then do an alignment and ask to have the wheels as straight as possible.
In 8 years of ownership I'm on my 2nd set of EVENLY worn tires. This 2nd set is at 85-90% for both winters & summers. BTW, you should check if the rear control arms and bushings (and sway bars) are still OK, but if the car wasn't abused on bad roads, those should last quite a while as opposed to the front counterparts.
This is the simplest answer for rear worn tires inwardly. And it works.
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2014, 01:26 PM
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There's a thread today, similar to this one, for reference:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Uneven Tire Wear... Alignment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdubya1198 View Post
Now that I've finally gotten around to posting this, I've noticed that my rear tires have very uneven wear.
I had replaced my old style 5 wheels with the style 29s probably a little over a year ago because my mechanic told me that the wheels were warped, and apparently this is pretty common with the 2-piece style 5s. When I replaced the wheels, the ride had improved, but now I am noticing that the rear tires are very uneven.
When I bought the wheels, they came with Yokohama tires that had a good amount of tread, and I recently took off the rear wheels to check the wear because of this issue. The pass. side tire was worn more toward the inside of the wheel. The driver side tire was nearly bald.
I haven't been spinning the tires, and as many times as the mechanic tells me the alignment is good, I don't think it is.
Do you think it could be the alignment that is the problem, or is it something else? If it helps, I recently had issues with the passenger side air spring going out, and right now it's holding with some of that rubber spray stuff (which actually worked quite well).
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  #55  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:58 PM
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This related information was posted here today ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > How do you break & seal the bead when replacing your own tires on BMW wheels at home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKJS View Post
Sealing a tire does require quite a bit of energy, that being muscle or machine, and quite a bit of air pressure both applied simultaneously.

As far as tire wear I'd suspect a bit too much toe out causing a bit excessive wear on the inner 50% of the front tires.

The stems you have chosen are used for high performance/race vehicles where damage to the stem can be life threatening and frequent. For most applications a standard stem is just fine.

On race cars toe is evaluated in the pits by reading tire temp at several places across the tread by IR as soon as the car comes in off the track.

You probably already know this stuff but if not, here is my very simple explanation of the axes and there effect:

Caster has the effect of asking the tire to return to center when disturbed from straight ahead.

Camber is used to bring the tire to level when hard cornering so that the entire tread is available for traction.

Toe used to counteract the forces of acceleration on wheel alignment during acceleration; toe in for a front wheel drive that has the tendency to cause the front drive tires to toe out upon acceleration and toe out for rear wheel drive cars that cause the front wheels to toe in just a tad upon acceleration.

There are also small adjustments made to street cars for the crown of the road but I have forgotten which axis this occurs in. Perhaps someone else who does these adjustments frequently can help here as I have forgotten some or all of this, or if i have totally screwed this someone please chime in and correct me as it has been a while since I worked on race cars.

Hope I have helped,
doc
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  #56  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:21 AM
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This related thread has some good specs from RDL ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Negative camber question
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
I agree that excessive camber will promote tire wear. OTOH, I don't think that E39 specs are excessive. I've owned 3 cars with IRS & ~2 degrees of -ve camber on 215 & 225 section width tires. (3 brands - European Ford, European GM & now BMW) I've never had any abnormal tire wear over 500k miles on the 3 cars. Even though I've had well meaning people give me a friendly warning that "something must be wrong with your car - the tires are leaning inward."

But TIS disagrees with you about rear camber.
For I6 and 540 models with "standard," "low slung sport" and "M-sport" suspensions TIS lists the spec as -2 deg 10 minutes. The tolerance does vary among options: either +/- 20 minutes or +/- 25 minutes of angle. The difference is so small that I can't imagine it makes any practical difference.
M5 spec is -1 deg 50 minutes, i.e. less than others. One suspects due to 275/35 section width tires vs 225/55 for I6 cars. Although even then, the difference is so small at 20 minutes of angle or 1/3 degree that it would be hard to spot by eyeball alone.
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  #57  
Old 05-17-2015, 01:57 PM
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By way of xref, here are some alignment numbers posted today...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Tire questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post
OK, so I got a pair of decent used front tires, they also did balance on the wheels so no more shaking at 60 miles. Today I brought the car to Just Ties for 4 wheel alignment, to my surprise, the rear alignment parameters are far off than the front, and passenger side rear wheel inner rim is worn which need to replace soon. The car just had 6000 miles from the last alignment, they went off so fast, so the only thing can blame is the bad road conditions here. Anyway, Just Tires do not use weight to do alignment, Firestone also has Hunter machine but they do not do BMW alignment because they don't have weights to do it per BMW way but Just Tires don't think that it matters.

Here is the before and after alignment parameters, the drive side front chamber has no room to adjust so they just leave it that way:
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  #58  
Old 05-21-2015, 05:00 PM
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A related question popped up today...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > 99 528i camber
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny9520 View Post
I have just found out that all four wheels on my 528i have a slight camber and are wearing on the inside. I want to know if this is cause of the factory settins or is it just regular wear and needs to be aligned? Also anyone else having this issue?
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  #59  
Old 05-21-2015, 08:03 PM
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This information was posted today...
> 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003) > 99 528i camber
Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
The Mike Miller-suggested rotation pattern is LR>LF, RR>RF; RF>LR, LF>RR.
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  #60  
Old 05-25-2015, 07:14 PM
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For cross reference, this thread was updated today ...
- How to align front camber bolt eccentrics by knocking out the E39 factory alignment pin or the shock strut mount tower crash slot camber pin for negative camber plates (1)
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  #61  
Old 05-25-2015, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
TMVE39 hit it pretty good--thats what I have mine set on and and I'm getting 60k miles on Toyo's--gave up on the miches
This seems to me amazing mileage you've be able to get....tell me more about these specific Toyo tires, I'm curious.

FYI, I'm running 225/55's on 16" wheels, sport suspension on my 98 528i. I've owned 3 of these cars and have gotten about 30K miles or so out of a set (I rotate). Now I have never put pricey tires on the car likely that is the reason....right now running Yoko YK580's and they look like they'll be going 40K or more, which would be nice.

Thanks/Bill
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  #62  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:54 AM
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This somewhat related thread was opened today ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > ebay front camber plates?

EDIT: That thread discusses how to reduce OUTER tire wear, with front camber plates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblahh View Post
The front on mine wears the outside too fast some more negative camber will help

Driving the pin out is pointless as the strut mount is not slotted like other bmw's

So I still don't know if these 100 $ plates work with stock struts or only with coilovers
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Last edited by bluebee; 06-16-2015 at 11:02 AM.
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  #63  
Old 06-15-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmvE39/E53/Z32 View Post
Zero out toe on all four corners, not total toe. That would be out of BMW spec however. It'd still be fine for everyday driving, without pre-mature inner tire wear.


easy to do on the rear suspension as you can see the eccentric cam bolt when looking behind the car from the ground.

front has a limit, so you may not completely eliminate it from the front but you'll get close.
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  #64  
Old 06-15-2015, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
This somewhat related thread was opened today ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > ebay front camber plates?
My thread is completely unrelated
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  #65  
Old 06-15-2015, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblahh View Post
My thread is completely unrelated
Fair enough assessment.
I have belatedly updated the reference post so that it points out that you're looking for OUTER tire wear camber recommendations.

I based mine on the fact that you wanted to change the camber, knowing it would likely affect tire wear.

This thread is about what to change (mostly camber) to affect tire wear.

The point of the cross reference is not to ANSWER the question, but, to give users a one-stop-shopping experience in the canonical threads, for various aspects of how camber affects tire wear and how you can affect camber to change that outcome.
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Last edited by bluebee; 06-16-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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  #66  
Old 06-16-2015, 03:29 AM
mrblahh mrblahh is offline
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not sure why you linked to an unrelated thread that does not even have an answer it's not going to help anyone
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  #67  
Old 06-16-2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblahh View Post
not sure why you linked to an unrelated thread that does not even have an answer it's not going to help anyone
It's actually related, if you consider it's tire wear related to front camber - however - your thread is all about OUTER FRONT tire wear, while this thread is about BOTH outer and inner tire wear for both the front and rear tires ... and what can be done to alleviate that wear.

Front camber can be adjusted (as you know), and it is just one of the factors that affect tire wear.

EDIT:
With respect to how I cross reference ...
No system is perfect, and the bestlinks/canonical cross-reference system isn't perfect.

It's a compromise of my time versus thread utility.

Truth be told, I use an informally fuzzy algorithm to cross reference depending on whether the topic is:
a) Discussed commonly & has a good answer already, or,
b) Discussed commonly but it does not yet have a good answer, or,
c) Not commonly discussed (usually doesn't have a good answer either).
d) Almost any thread from cn90, QSilver7, JimLev, 540iman, etc.

Given that, here's my fuzzy algorithm for deciding what to comment.

COMMON TOPIC WITH REALLY GOOD ANSWER ALREADY:
If the topic is discussed commonly but already has a great answer (e.g., ABS trifecta, FSU, wiper blade refills, violent vibration upon braking, vapor barriers, DISA valve repair, seat twist repair, window regulators, rear tailllight melting, trunk loom fraying, etc.), I almost never cross reference every post I see unless that xref has some really good and new information.

COMMON TOPIC WITH LOUSY ANSWER SO FAR:
If the topic is common, but the answer is still up in the air (e.g., VANOS seals, causes of tire wear, causes of vibration, misfire diagnosis, causes of oil leaks, timersert repairs, causes of any particular DTC, etc.), I sometimes cross reference, usually if the thread starts developing in a good direction, but, I don't have infinite time so, I sometimes assume it will develop.

UNCOMMONLY DISCUSSED:
If the topic is relatively rare (e.g., recently there were Bosch spark plug blowing out issues, missing battery positive cable covers, catalytic converter fails, v8 vs i6 oil cap part numbers, japanese BMW cluster codes, etc.), I ALWAYS cross reference, because we need all the information we can get - and we'll never find these in a search when we need them.

In that latter two cases, I don't have the time (nor documentation system) nor expertise to watch the thread for days or even weeks or months to see what develops. So, I pop in a cross reference, and, move on to the next thread, hoping (assuming) the cross reference will develop.

Of course, almost any thread started by Fudman, QSilver7, cn90, JimLev, etc., will develop nicely, so, I almost always cross reference them (and often make them the canonical thread to cross reference to).

In summary, it's an imperfect system, and it depends on everyone making the threads useful, over time.
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Last edited by bluebee; 06-16-2015 at 11:06 AM.
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  #68  
Old 06-16-2015, 04:50 PM
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Hello, Bluebee! Hope everything is going well with you, you have been a great source of inspiration to me.

But after reading through this thread, I only want to know: how is your tire wear now, after the work you put in back in '13?
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  #69  
Old 07-17-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencercat View Post
how is your tire wear now, after the work you put in back in '13?
It seems that the alignment *added* about four thousand miles to my tires!

Here's a picture of the worn tires that were put on at the start of this thread two years ago.

You'll note that by drastically lessening my rear camber, the wear is relatively even now, and no longer worn at the inside edges like it was for the last two sets of tires.

The were rotated only once, from front to back and from side to side at the same time, and the spare was not involved (it's the one lying flat with a different tread).

Roughly, if I take the treadwear rating (of 400 points) and multiply it by a nominal 50 miles per point, I arrive at the actual wear of the tire (of about 20,000 miles).
Here's the math:
  1. Prior to 8292011:
    • Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus P225/55R16 95H 1,521# 130mph 400/A/A $185 each
  2. New on 8292011 at 102,278 miles (4 tires):
    • Hankook Ventus V4 ES H105 P225/55/R16 99V 1,709# 149mph 420/A/A $88 each
    • Did not align, but each tire was dynamically balanced
    • Replaced when worn to steel on inner edges
    • Lasted to 119,778 miles (~17,500 miles in about two years)
  3. New on 912013 at 119,778 miles (4 tires)
    • Fuzion Touring P255/55R16 XL 99V 1,700# 149mph 400/A/A $84 each (+$15 each shipping)
    • Each tire was dynamically balanced
    • Aligned with lessened camber & set ride height prior to alignment
    • Lasted to 140,480 miles (~21,700 miles in about two years)
  4. New on 7102015 at 140,480 miles (5 tires):
    • Fuzion Touring P255/55R16 XL 99V 1,700# 149mph 400/A/A $78 each (+$15 each shipping)
    • Each tire will be statically balanced by me at home

See also:
- One users quest to diagnose uneven tire wear on the inside edge due to excessive and uneven alignment camber & toe (1) (2) & how one user selects a tire (1) & what are the most common bimmerfest tire recommendations (1) & where to buy your tires in the USA (1) & how many miles do you get per every 100 UTQG points (1) & recommended tire pressures (1) & the claimed benefits of nitrogen gas (1) what tire changing tools do you need to break the bead on the rim and set the bead back on the wheel when changing a tire at home (1) (2) (3) & where are the marks on the wheel and on the tire for proper tire match mounting and wheel balancing to eliminate vibration (1) & what tools do you need to balance a tire and rim at home to eliminate shimmy or vibration at speed (1) & how do you properly dispose of your old car tires (1) & where to get bent or damaged wheel rims repaired (1) (2).
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Last edited by bluebee; 07-19-2015 at 11:42 AM.
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