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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:57 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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Lightbulb e39 limp mode, mysterious error code?

Hi!

a couple of days ago i installed a new transmission in my euro 525 TDS since the old one was lacking reverse gear.

The previous owner droped out the old transmission some while ago but bought a wrong tranny.. so I had to salvage a new one that came from a 725 TDS.

now with the new transmission installed and working (in limp mode) INPA throws an error code in my face saying this:

Any ideas where to start looking for the source?

all tips are welcome!

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  #2  
Old 01-22-2014, 11:34 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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found out a litte more now.

but how can i diagnose this?

it seems that pin 2 and 13 goes to the EDS valve, can i messure the resistance through theese pins to verify is the short is inside the gearbox or not?





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  #3  
Old 01-22-2014, 12:40 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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The EDS solenoid should have very low resistance (around 5 ohms at room temperature), but not a complete short.
Solenoids MV1-MV6 should have around 30 ohms.
Yes, you can measure it with an ohmmeter.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2014, 12:44 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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okei thanks

the pictures above is from a 5hp19 gearbox but im guessing the connector is the same for the 5hp18?

and if the problem is not inside the gearbox i can meassure from the external connector from the transmission module?

guessing it will send a small voltage from the module to the EDS when the ignition is on?
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:04 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansol123 View Post
the pictures above is from a 5hp19 gearbox but im guessing the connector is the same for the 5hp18?
Actually, the picture above is mixed up. The mechanical picture is for 5HP19, but the electrical diagram is for 5HP18. 5HP19 has slightly different pinout and different valves (MV1..MV3 and EDS1..EDS4).

Here is the book your picture came from:
http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Troubl...ch%20Guide.pdf

Which transmission does your car have?

Quote:
and if the problem is not inside the gearbox i can meassure from the external connector from the transmission module?
You can, but you will not measure anything meaningful without the solenoid (or a dummy load) connected to it.

Last edited by CitizenOfDreams; 01-22-2014 at 01:07 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:17 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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my car has the 5hp18 a5s310z aka 1056 000 091.

ahh i see, then i can use that pinout diagram tomorrow when im diagnosing

is there any other way to measure the wiring from the controll module down to the gearbox?
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:28 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansol123 View Post
is there any other way to measure the wiring from the controll module down to the gearbox?
If you are talking about checking the wiring, you can unplug the connector at the ECU and measure the solenoid resistance there (instead of the round connector at the gearbox). The ECU connector pinout is in the pdf book above.

If you are talking about checking the ECU, then no. All you can test is the solenoids and the wiring. If the solenoids and the wiring are good, you have to assume that the ECU itself is at fault.

Last edited by CitizenOfDreams; 01-22-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:32 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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hmm, that seems like the most logical way indeed!

will i read 5 ohms on both the positive and negative side ( pin 2 and 13)?

the gearbox module is located under the driver side cabin air filter?
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:56 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansol123 View Post
hmm, that seems like the most logical way indeed!
That's what car repair is about, thinking logically and finding the problem. Or you can throw money and parts at it, but that can be a long and expensive process.
Quote:
will i read 5 ohms on both the positive and negative side ( pin 2 and 13)?
You will (if the solenoid is OK, that is) read 5 ohms between pin 2 and pin 13. Put one ohmmeter lead on pin 2, and the other lead on pin 13.
Quote:
the gearbox module is located under the driver side cabin air filter?
If your car has a hood, the ECU is on the passenger side. If your car has a bonnet, the ECU is on the driver side.

Seriously speaking, it's on the left side as you open the hood/bonnet.
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  #10  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:24 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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Yes of course between the two, i knew that

im going to test it today and hope for the best!
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  #11  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:25 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Good luck, keep us posted!
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2014, 11:13 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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Will do!

it there a pinout diagram for the connector to the transmission module?

EDIT:

found this but cant say it really helpet me much.. :S

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r...9new/index.htm

Last edited by hansol123; 01-22-2014 at 11:27 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-22-2014, 11:29 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Look on page 69 of that PDF book in post #5. The pins for EDS1 are 5 and 52.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2014, 11:52 PM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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Wow thanks man!

will post results later today
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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No results today, it was a PAIN to get the probes fittet correctly to the transmission.

did try from the harness and down to the tranny, but no luck didnt get any readings with eitehr 5-7 ohm or 30 ohm just some with 60 ohm and 130 ohms, but its like 22°f outside so the readings should be a little different i guess.
the pins 2 and 52 did not give me any readings at all, so it looks like its gona cost a little to get her up and running :/

also noticed shes on her period ( leaking diesel from the injector pump)

will try to get another set of test probes tomorrow probably easier with aligator test probes,
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  #16  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:30 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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Okei, so today i did some more fault searching with the multimeter, still didnt get to the pins on the tranmission it self but was able to get the wiring harness up to the engine so i could use the beeping mode thingy on the mulitmeter,

did NOT get any beep between pins 2 ( case pin connector) and 5 ( control unit connector) but between 8 and 30 for the MV1 i did so i guess it possible that there is a short in the wiring going to the EDS?

but the thing is the gearbox connector does not match up with the one in the drawing in the ZF book.

my next step i think is to get a few meters of wire and try "replacing" the 2-5 wire going to the EDS

Any advice?

the drawing shows 4 pins in the middle part but mine has 5?






Can i open this connector to replace the wire to the EDS?




Last edited by hansol123; 01-24-2014 at 07:31 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-24-2014, 10:01 AM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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1. In the "Beep" mode the multimeter may not distinguish between a dead short and a healthy solenoid.
2. Your gearbox connector is different from the book, so you need to find out what exactly it is and what pinout it has. Without that information, you are flying blind.

Your connector looks the same as 5HP-24, but the pinout is obviously different (because pins 15-16 are used on 5HP-24 and missing on your connector).
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  #18  
Old 01-24-2014, 11:39 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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so the beep mode is no good :/

seems virtually impossible to get the pinout diagram, is it possible that the rest of the pins on the 5hp-24 is the same as mine? just that the 5hp-24 har some additional pins?
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2014, 02:44 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansol123 View Post
so the beep mode is no good :/
No, you have to measure the actual resistance if you want to be sure you are seeing a solenoid (and not just a short). The "beep mode" will beep anytime it sees a low enough resistance (typically anywhere from 0 ohms to 100 ohms or so).

Quote:
seems virtually impossible to get the pinout diagram, is it possible that the rest of the pins on the 5hp-24 is the same as mine? just that the 5hp-24 har some additional pins?
Here is my educated guess... I suspect your transmission uses the 5HP-19 pinout with one exception: pin 16 is not used, and the common wire of EDS1..EDS3 is connected to pin 12 together with the common wire for the rest of the solenoids.

There is no guarantee my guess is correct. Check your connector with a meter and see if you can find all other solenoids according to the 5HP-19 diagram. Good luck!

Last edited by CitizenOfDreams; 01-24-2014 at 08:01 PM. Reason: typo
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2014, 03:52 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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You are a saint man! thanks!

will test this out today and hopefully ill find something usefull

there aint any differences between the wiring harness of a 7 series e38 and a e39? seems kinda ood if there where but one never knows.

and to check the "internal" type of the transmission module cant I just disconnect the harness from the tranmsission and put the igniton on and read the codes?

the hp18 only has one EDS solenoid, where as the hp19 has 4.
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  #21  
Old 01-25-2014, 04:31 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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I FOUND THE FAULT!

I meassured all the other solenoid wires in a loop from the transmission module to the case connector all the other wires gave me that satisfying "Beep" but nothing on the EDS so i peeled back the rubber an vola 3 wires are riped clean off, but now how tha hell do I fix this? they are clean cut almost 1mm inside the connector? is is possible to dissmantle it? or press out the pin from the other side?

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  #22  
Old 01-25-2014, 09:47 AM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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Good, you found the problem!

The pins have spring tabs that snap in the connector body. They look something like this (this is not the exact pin, but it should be similar):



Sometimes it's possible to punch the pins out without damaging them. Sometimes you can reach the tabs with a very small jeweler's screwdriver and bend them in to release the pin. I have not disassembled that particular connector, so I don't know which method works the best for it. Use your own best judgement.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2014, 10:32 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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awsome! I need to try and get my hands on a small screwdriver or two, one of each spring and either solder them back together or splice them back.

guessing i need 20 or 24 gauge wire?
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2014, 12:58 PM
CitizenOfDreams CitizenOfDreams is offline
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I would use 20 gauge stranded wire. Or just solder the original wires onto the pins.

When you put your car back together, make sure the wire bundle is routed properly. It should be securely attached so it would not vibrate and break again. But it must not be stretched tight, there should always be some slack.
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  #25  
Old 01-27-2014, 10:37 AM
hansol123 hansol123 is offline
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So i got the wires hooked up today, reasembled evryting and deletet the codes, and vola. the EDS is active again!

went for a short test drive and guess what fu*king happend, the son of a gun dropped right back in to limp mode when it tried to change second gear.

the new error code goes like this:

Found out the error, it was just the wire for the Output speed sesnor that had a beating when i was installing the new wires

So shes puring like a kitten now well a a sick kitten as its a diesel with tremendous valve tapping at idle.


Last edited by hansol123; 01-27-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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