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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #126  
Old 03-13-2014, 06:09 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Yes it is the perfect car to replace a Chrysler 300C. Hopefully Hertz will do the same in the rental fleet.


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If no ones buy them, that's where they'll end up
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  #127  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:23 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
If no ones buy them, that's where they'll end up
Its a very nice car, I saw one the other day in the street and really loved the design. Its a big car, looks as big as the F10 with high built line. The car was locked however I looked at the interior and it seemed like a cheap grain plastic (Chrysler Dashboard Plastic), steering and seats were very nice and of genuine leather.

I think due to that cheap plastic dashboard the genuine dash leather, armrest, and handles package is a must.. I tried configuring the car on Maserati's site and its like $20K more expensive than a similarly equipped F10(Only the Q4 model is comparable to the 535XI). I don't think this is a MB/BMW F10 competitor as its way more expensive, the base model starts from $67000 I think however who wants the base model with cheap plastic interior, no AWD, and mediocre engine? This is more like base 528i with a bigger engine.

I read some reviews on the net, they mostly say its very connected car and not very isolated also the engine noise is too high even on comfort mode (very growly).
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  #128  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:29 PM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
just like that, he's gone
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Originally Posted by ahmadddd View Post
I read some reviews on the net, they mostly say its very connected car and not very isolated also the engine noise is NASTY even on comfort mode (very growly and angry - and that's just too bad for any whiny back seat passengers).
fixed that for you I did
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  #129  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:32 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
fixed that for you I did
lol
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  #130  
Old 03-13-2014, 09:46 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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The biggest issue of the Ghibli is that it's built with the same attention to quality as a 300C. The controls, switchgear, etc. lack major damping and just feel light and cheap. Without the extended leather, the interior doesn't hold a candle to the F10's. The seat leather is certainly NOT the ultra-sweet-smelling fare of Maserati's of yore. It's a typical mass-market leather such as Dakota. The steering wheel leather also isn't the genuine, ultra plush Nappa the BMW M wheels have, it seems like it's supposed to be Nappa, but feels harder and just less "plush", i.e something that a loaded Chrysler or Dodge would have (which is precisely what it is).

The stereo not only sounds like HELL, even the "Premium Sound" sounds terrible, but you can't even get HD Radio on it! That shocked me. Anyone who listens to the radio and notices the stark difference between HD and non-HD when the radio cuts in and out of HD, knows how important that is.

I like the growly engine, I'm kind of back in my teenage and early 20's mindframe where I want a kind of louder car. However, the N55 at WOT satisfies me in that. The Ghibli sounds good, but also I can see that sound getting annoying after a short time. At least with the 535i, you don't hear the engine unless you *want to*. That said, I wish M Sport F10's had a slightly more audible exhaust. The Ghibli's engine sounds great for a V6, but V6's are generally the worst sounding engines (after 4 cylinders, of course), so I'd say I liked the sound of the 650i M Sport I was looking at the other day (unlike the F10, the 650 M Sport gets a more audible, open exhaust).

The craftsmanship of the Ghibli was a bit sore spot to me. I'm very particular when it comes to fit and finish, and the first thing I noticed when I walked up to the Ghibli was misaligned panels, which is how the all are. The door-to-fender shutline was aligned in a jagged way. The chrome window trim toward the rear also has a hideous visible seamline (something I attribute to cheaper cars), but to add to that, even that visibly crude seamline wasn't aligned properly! It was "crooked".

The paddle shifters feel really good, however. I always thought BMW had some of the best paddle shifters after getting used to the cheap, dainty plastic paddles on Mercedes', but the Ghibli's paddles are on another level, they're more akin to the M5 paddles.

The doors of the Ghibli are reported to sound very cheap when they close, I found them okay, but not as satisfying as the thud of a BMW or Mercedes. The Ghibli also not only doesn't have an auto trunk, it doesn't have a soft-open trunk! Welcome to 1978! Every Luxury Car should at the very least have little bits that give a more premium and soothing essence, such as a simplistic soft-open trunk. On this car, the cheap, tinny feeling trunk pops open and upward with no hydraulic control, it feels like a cheap Japanese or American Economy Car in this regard, especially when you slam it shut (accompanied by the cheap feeling sound).

Things like the dome light, etc. all being carried over from cheap economy Chryslers, etc. really hurts the essence of the car.

I didn't drive it, but from what I understand, it's very sporty, not well dampened, lets in a good amount of road noise, etc. Which is fine as that's what the car is about, however, I find it a turn-off as fact of the matter is, it's a big car, and as such it should coddle at least a little. I've heard it doesn't handle road imperfections well, however that's forgiven if it gives a dynamically sporty drive.

Another big issue, on the size note, is that the outside is pretty massive, larger than an F10 (it disguises its girth well), however the interior feels kind of cramped, considering the exterior size. Not enough frontal headroom for me, for one, and the steering wheel doesn't come out enough, as was mentioned here before. Just a poor use of space.

I'm glad Maserati entered this space, but it feels extremely "beta", and doesn't have the fundamental qualities as its "competitors" who are priced less than it. What you're paying up for is essentially a very fundamentally inferior car to the point where not many people will buy it, wearing a badge that is far more exclusive than the high-demand sellers, therefore gives it a "rarity" effect. Its buyers seem to argue that its faults which make it a fundamentally inferior car, are "exotic inspired quirks that show Italian flare and emotion over German clinical sophistication". With previous POS Maserati's (i.e the previous Quattroporte, which I mostly like as it's at least a TRUE Italian") this would ring true at least if you spin it that way, but the Ghibli doesn't feel Italian, at least when you're not driving it, and the setbacks are due in most part to those "flawed charms" from Italian Maserati production mixed with a cheap Chrysler ambiance. Working together, they create a pretty undesirable mix.

Other things to point out: Already there are many drivers reporting various reliability issues, the infotainment screen is of a somewhat cheap and relatively poor resolution (as if they stretched out the Chrysler graphics from smaller screens to fit the larger scale size), and apparently there's a horrendous throttle lag on the cars, which very much gets in the way of its intended dynamics. When I revved the throttle in "Comfort" Mode, if felt extremely laggy and unresponsive, put into "Sport" the throttle snapped up and got quicker, but I'd say about as responsive as my 535i in Comfort (?).

What I really DO love is how the exhaust opens up more when it's in Sport. It's something that every "M Sport" BMW SHOULD VERY MUCH do!
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  #131  
Old 03-16-2014, 07:54 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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I checked the car yesterday, the one they had in the showroom is fully loaded with black Napa leather interior, definitely the fit and finish with the napa leather looks premium. The stitched Napa is everywhere including the door panels, arm rest, dash, and seats. I never had Chrysler before so I am trying to be neutral here. All the buttons, materials, shift, leather and wood are of premium quality. I checked the turn signal lever, AC buttons and surprisingly all felt good. Surprisingly the AC buttons didn't feel bad at all, also the NAV (U Connect) looked good and the knobs felt good too.

I own an F10 however I am not a BMW Fanboy and thats why I can be neutral here. No complains about the interior except its a bit smaller than the F10 especially the back seat, definitely they could do better. Also don't think they have multi contour seats and don't recall seeing the memory seats buttons. The steering looked good, thick and well padded like my M Sport steering, however it didn't feel like Napa.. maybe some other italian leather but I prefer the Napa.

Maserati doesn't offer high tech fancy safety features like Blind Spot Monitor, Lane Departure warning,..etc. I love those features and consider them as important nowadays

The only thing I didn't like was the door feeling and sound when I closed it!! Big difference than my F10 with soft touch doors, very cheap feeling like my mothers Fiat 181GL - 1982 Model. Looks like its an italian heritage to have those clunky doors. Also when I opened the trunk it sounded very cheap too (Maybe the license plate was rattling..not sure though)!! The trunk is mechanical, no electric motor or auto closing option. When I closed it I had to push it all the way twice to close it.

I checked the Quatrporte carefully and its exactly of the same build quality as the Ghibli and use the same materials like windows switches, NAV, Shift, and steering. The doors and trunk felt exactly the same as the Ghibli!! The interior looked cheap as the one they had in showroom was the base model with plastic/Vinyl interior. However the interior design of the dash is much better than the Ghibli and looked great on the fully loaded demo they had in the parking lot (Blue Napa Dash with White Leather steering, doors, and seats!!).

Overall, didn't notice any fit and finish quality issues like I used to see on American cars in the past. Most of the Ghiblis they had in the lot are 4Q + some extra options excluding the Napa leather option.. most combinations where around $77-$82K.

I really like the design (interior and exterior), however I personally don't trust the italian engineering and found so many reliability threads on the Maserati forums. Also the price is not justifiable, this car shouldn't be a single dollar more expensive than the F10(BMW R&D is much more advanced, overall more sophisticated).

For the QP, again for $110K-$160K I can get a fully loaded S class with Sport package or Porsche Panamera 4S. I understand the prestige and the exclusivity of the brand however don't think MB or Porsche are cheap brands neither and definitely their reliability and R&D levels are way beyond what Maserati can achieve.

conclusion: Nice and sexy car, very sporty, reliability needs to be checked over time. If I see too many Ghiblis in the street and they manage to sell 40K cars a year as they forecasted, provide BMW/MB like lease deals and 3 years free maintenance then I might consider it.
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Last edited by ahmadddd; 03-16-2014 at 08:23 PM.
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  #132  
Old 04-18-2014, 03:54 PM
Boraxo Boraxo is offline
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I dropped by the dealership in Newport Beach yesterday which was across the street from my event. I did not notice the numerous deficiencies cited above but then again my eye isn't trained as such. Overall I thought the fully loaded model had a much nicer finish than the F10s that I saw at my local dealer earlier this month. I am 5'10" and found the driver seat to be comfortable and the back seat to be reasonably roomy (though to be fair I currently have a 330 which is pretty tight ) Did not have the same cheap look that I find in BMWs and much more intelligent in terms of cupholders, etc. Why can't BMW get simple things right?? Most of the models were loaded with MSRP @ $90k. Alas no Euro Delivery

One place where BMW could take some notes is the sales experience. The sales guy was 100% more savvy and patient than most of the BMW guys - really knew the product and had an good answer for all my questions. And just pleasant without the snobbery despite this being SoCal - as opposed ot many of the Bay Area BMW dealers who seem to think they are doing you a favor by "letting you" purchase a vehicle. He said they are looking to sell 50k/yr which is reflected in the price. I also like the fact that they don't nickle and dime you like BMW - the higher end Ghibli (not base) includes pretty much all of the options you could want including heated seats, NAV, rear cameras, bluetooth, bigger wheels etc. I laughed when he said he is getting people trading in Teslas - apparently the performance deteriorates as the battery discharges, just like an electric toy - doh! Did not surprise me to hear that most of his customers lease for 18-24 months (typical LA mentality) so I'd bet there are some good deals on relatively lightly used Maseratis (though in LA the mileage can be an issue).

Performance wise it appeared to compare favorably to the F10 especially the lower end 5-series (though to be fair those are muich cheaper). No runflat nonsense. Hard to see how it is "fundmentally inferior" with respect to design or performance though I have not yet sifted through the maintenance complaints. The 5-series itself doesn't have a great track record on maintenance (BMW generally is being hammered on this subject) - mediocre compared to my Japanese cars with the same miles. In any case I am not sure how much worse it will be with Maserati and I certainly won't miss the bare bones "included maintenance."

In the end I think price may be a critical factor for me. I might be willing to stretch my budget a bit to get to $75k but $90k is too rich for my blood. With Euro delivery I would think I could get a decent 5-series for $60k. As you can tell I am pretty stale with BMW build quality which IME doesn't seem well suited anymore for long-term ownership but it sounds like Maserati isn't much better in this regard. As for the QP, if I ever have that kind of money I would probably go for the M6 sedan. Resale value is also an issue as always a possibility I could be tranferred overseas so I don't want something that is going to drop like a stone.
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  #133  
Old 04-18-2014, 04:29 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boraxo View Post
I dropped by the dealership in Newport Beach yesterday which was across the street from my event. I did not notice the numerous deficiencies cited above but then again my eye isn't trained as such. Overall I thought the fully loaded model had a much nicer finish than the F10s that I saw at my local dealer earlier this month. I am 5'10" and found the driver seat to be comfortable and the back seat to be reasonably roomy (though to be fair I currently have a 330 which is pretty tight ) Did not have the same cheap look that I find in BMWs and much more intelligent in terms of cupholders, etc. Why can't BMW get simple things right?? Most of the models were loaded with MSRP @ $90k. Alas no Euro Delivery

One place where BMW could take some notes is the sales experience. The sales guy was 100% more savvy and patient than most of the BMW guys - really knew the product and had an good answer for all my questions. And just pleasant without the snobbery despite this being SoCal - as opposed ot many of the Bay Area BMW dealers who seem to think they are doing you a favor by "letting you" purchase a vehicle. He said they are looking to sell 50k/yr which is reflected in the price. I also like the fact that they don't nickle and dime you like BMW - the higher end Ghibli (not base) includes pretty much all of the options you could want including heated seats, NAV, rear cameras, bluetooth, bigger wheels etc. I laughed when he said he is getting people trading in Teslas - apparently the performance deteriorates as the battery discharges, just like an electric toy - doh! Did not surprise me to hear that most of his customers lease for 18-24 months (typical LA mentality) so I'd bet there are some good deals on relatively lightly used Maseratis (though in LA the mileage can be an issue).

Performance wise it appeared to compare favorably to the F10 especially the lower end 5-series (though to be fair those are muich cheaper). No runflat nonsense. Hard to see how it is "fundmentally inferior" with respect to design or performance though I have not yet sifted through the maintenance complaints. The 5-series itself doesn't have a great track record on maintenance (BMW generally is being hammered on this subject) - mediocre compared to my Japanese cars with the same miles. In any case I am not sure how much worse it will be with Maserati and I certainly won't miss the bare bones "included maintenance."

In the end I think price may be a critical factor for me. I might be willing to stretch my budget a bit to get to $75k but $90k is too rich for my blood. With Euro delivery I would think I could get a decent 5-series for $60k. As you can tell I am pretty stale with BMW build quality which IME doesn't seem well suited anymore for long-term ownership but it sounds like Maserati isn't much better in this regard. As for the QP, if I ever have that kind of money I would probably go for the M6 sedan. Resale value is also an issue as always a possibility I could be tranferred overseas so I don't want something that is going to drop like a stone.
Update to my post above... I did a test drive and the car is a big disappointment! ! Everything is harsh, everything feels cheap, steering feels weird and sticky on turns, the car is very noisy with significant exhaust droning at all speeds and on comfort mode too. No matter what you do the base like sound and exhaust drone will give you headache after 10 minutes of driving. Some sort of harshness and tires/wheels squeak on U turns.. looks like the all wheel drive is not designed well as the the front drive shafts or mechanism suffers on big turns.

The seat motor felt cheap when I moved the seat backwards (cheap sound, squeaks)!!! Despite the sporty character and all that engine and exhaust noise the car doesnt move!!! It has a serious turbo lag!

Buttom line, worst experience, everything is sub par on this car and its a piece of crap, it will fall apart within couple of years in my openion and you need to be friends with the mechanic

I wish they could use more parts from chryslers as the 300c is a much better car, only the Nav and windows switches felt good as both are made by Chrysler which is miles ahead of Maserati.
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Last edited by ahmadddd; 04-20-2014 at 04:14 AM.
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  #134  
Old 04-18-2014, 04:36 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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duplicate post.. removed
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  #135  
Old 04-18-2014, 05:14 PM
ZoomingBy ZoomingBy is offline
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U should see the instrument cluster at night, it look cheap!

While the are good looking cars, it is no replacement for what F10 has to offer




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  #136  
Old 04-18-2014, 06:08 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmadddd View Post
Update to my post above... I did a test drive and the car is a big disappointment! ! Everything is harsh, everything feels cheap, steering feels weird and sticky on turns, the car is very noisy with significant exhaust droning at all speeds and on comfort mode to. No matter what you do the base like sound and exhaust drone will give you headache. Some sort of harshness and squeak on U turns.. looks like the all wheeel drive
Is not designed well the the front drive shafts or mechanism suffers on big turns.

The seat motor felt cheap when I moved the seat backwards (cheap sound, squeaks) and at last despit the noise engine and exhaust the caf doesnt move!!! It has a serious turbo lag!

Buttom line, worst experience, everything is sub par in this car and its a piece of crap, it will fall apart within couple of years in my openion and you need to be friends with the mechanic

I wish they could take more parts from chryslers as the 300c is much better car, only the Nav and the windowz switchex felt good as both are from Chrysler which is miles ahead of Maserati.
Yes, the car really is a POS. Sad, because I really wanted to get one before I figured out how fundamentally unfinished and incomplete (and that's being nice) it is.

This scathing review, which is so scathing you'd think can't be legit, I find to be very accurate. And his complaints echo all the complaints most people who test the car and come away unimpressed, have:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ll-test-review
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Ordered: 2015 Porsche Macan S / SportDesign.

Ex MB's: 11/10/06 E350 "Sport", 02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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