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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #126  
Old 03-13-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Yes it is the perfect car to replace a Chrysler 300C. Hopefully Hertz will do the same in the rental fleet.


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If no ones buy them, that's where they'll end up
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  #127  
Old 03-13-2014, 07:23 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
If no ones buy them, that's where they'll end up
Its a very nice car, I saw one the other day in the street and really loved the design. Its a big car, looks as big as the F10 with high built line. The car was locked however I looked at the interior and it seemed like a cheap grain plastic (Chrysler Dashboard Plastic), steering and seats were very nice and of genuine leather.

I think due to that cheap plastic dashboard the genuine dash leather, armrest, and handles package is a must.. I tried configuring the car on Maserati's site and its like $20K more expensive than a similarly equipped F10(Only the Q4 model is comparable to the 535XI). I don't think this is a MB/BMW F10 competitor as its way more expensive, the base model starts from $67000 I think however who wants the base model with cheap plastic interior, no AWD, and mediocre engine? This is more like base 528i with a bigger engine.

I read some reviews on the net, they mostly say its very connected car and not very isolated also the engine noise is too high even on comfort mode (very growly).
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  #128  
Old 03-13-2014, 07:29 PM
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Keyser Soze Keyser Soze is offline
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Originally Posted by ahmadddd View Post
I read some reviews on the net, they mostly say its very connected car and not very isolated also the engine noise is NASTY even on comfort mode (very growly and angry - and that's just too bad for any whiny back seat passengers).
fixed that for you I did
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  #129  
Old 03-13-2014, 07:32 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
fixed that for you I did
lol
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  #130  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:46 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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The biggest issue of the Ghibli is that it's built with the same attention to quality as a 300C. The controls, switchgear, etc. lack major damping and just feel light and cheap. Without the extended leather, the interior doesn't hold a candle to the F10's. The seat leather is certainly NOT the ultra-sweet-smelling fare of Maserati's of yore. It's a typical mass-market leather such as Dakota. The steering wheel leather also isn't the genuine, ultra plush Nappa the BMW M wheels have, it seems like it's supposed to be Nappa, but feels harder and just less "plush", i.e something that a loaded Chrysler or Dodge would have (which is precisely what it is).

The stereo not only sounds like HELL, even the "Premium Sound" sounds terrible, but you can't even get HD Radio on it! That shocked me. Anyone who listens to the radio and notices the stark difference between HD and non-HD when the radio cuts in and out of HD, knows how important that is.

I like the growly engine, I'm kind of back in my teenage and early 20's mindframe where I want a kind of louder car. However, the N55 at WOT satisfies me in that. The Ghibli sounds good, but also I can see that sound getting annoying after a short time. At least with the 535i, you don't hear the engine unless you *want to*. That said, I wish M Sport F10's had a slightly more audible exhaust. The Ghibli's engine sounds great for a V6, but V6's are generally the worst sounding engines (after 4 cylinders, of course), so I'd say I liked the sound of the 650i M Sport I was looking at the other day (unlike the F10, the 650 M Sport gets a more audible, open exhaust).

The craftsmanship of the Ghibli was a bit sore spot to me. I'm very particular when it comes to fit and finish, and the first thing I noticed when I walked up to the Ghibli was misaligned panels, which is how the all are. The door-to-fender shutline was aligned in a jagged way. The chrome window trim toward the rear also has a hideous visible seamline (something I attribute to cheaper cars), but to add to that, even that visibly crude seamline wasn't aligned properly! It was "crooked".

The paddle shifters feel really good, however. I always thought BMW had some of the best paddle shifters after getting used to the cheap, dainty plastic paddles on Mercedes', but the Ghibli's paddles are on another level, they're more akin to the M5 paddles.

The doors of the Ghibli are reported to sound very cheap when they close, I found them okay, but not as satisfying as the thud of a BMW or Mercedes. The Ghibli also not only doesn't have an auto trunk, it doesn't have a soft-open trunk! Welcome to 1978! Every Luxury Car should at the very least have little bits that give a more premium and soothing essence, such as a simplistic soft-open trunk. On this car, the cheap, tinny feeling trunk pops open and upward with no hydraulic control, it feels like a cheap Japanese or American Economy Car in this regard, especially when you slam it shut (accompanied by the cheap feeling sound).

Things like the dome light, etc. all being carried over from cheap economy Chryslers, etc. really hurts the essence of the car.

I didn't drive it, but from what I understand, it's very sporty, not well dampened, lets in a good amount of road noise, etc. Which is fine as that's what the car is about, however, I find it a turn-off as fact of the matter is, it's a big car, and as such it should coddle at least a little. I've heard it doesn't handle road imperfections well, however that's forgiven if it gives a dynamically sporty drive.

Another big issue, on the size note, is that the outside is pretty massive, larger than an F10 (it disguises its girth well), however the interior feels kind of cramped, considering the exterior size. Not enough frontal headroom for me, for one, and the steering wheel doesn't come out enough, as was mentioned here before. Just a poor use of space.

I'm glad Maserati entered this space, but it feels extremely "beta", and doesn't have the fundamental qualities as its "competitors" who are priced less than it. What you're paying up for is essentially a very fundamentally inferior car to the point where not many people will buy it, wearing a badge that is far more exclusive than the high-demand sellers, therefore gives it a "rarity" effect. Its buyers seem to argue that its faults which make it a fundamentally inferior car, are "exotic inspired quirks that show Italian flare and emotion over German clinical sophistication". With previous POS Maserati's (i.e the previous Quattroporte, which I mostly like as it's at least a TRUE Italian") this would ring true at least if you spin it that way, but the Ghibli doesn't feel Italian, at least when you're not driving it, and the setbacks are due in most part to those "flawed charms" from Italian Maserati production mixed with a cheap Chrysler ambiance. Working together, they create a pretty undesirable mix.

Other things to point out: Already there are many drivers reporting various reliability issues, the infotainment screen is of a somewhat cheap and relatively poor resolution (as if they stretched out the Chrysler graphics from smaller screens to fit the larger scale size), and apparently there's a horrendous throttle lag on the cars, which very much gets in the way of its intended dynamics. When I revved the throttle in "Comfort" Mode, if felt extremely laggy and unresponsive, put into "Sport" the throttle snapped up and got quicker, but I'd say about as responsive as my 535i in Comfort (?).

What I really DO love is how the exhaust opens up more when it's in Sport. It's something that every "M Sport" BMW SHOULD VERY MUCH do!
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  #131  
Old 03-16-2014, 06:54 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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New review will be added soon
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Last edited by ahmadddd; 07-04-2015 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Update in progress
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  #132  
Old 04-18-2014, 02:54 PM
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I dropped by the dealership in Newport Beach yesterday which was across the street from my event. I did not notice the numerous deficiencies cited above but then again my eye isn't trained as such. Overall I thought the fully loaded model had a much nicer finish than the F10s that I saw at my local dealer earlier this month. I am 5'10" and found the driver seat to be comfortable and the back seat to be reasonably roomy (though to be fair I currently have a 330 which is pretty tight ) Did not have the same cheap look that I find in BMWs and much more intelligent in terms of cupholders, etc. Why can't BMW get simple things right?? Most of the models were loaded with MSRP @ $90k. Alas no Euro Delivery

One place where BMW could take some notes is the sales experience. The sales guy was 100% more savvy and patient than most of the BMW guys - really knew the product and had an good answer for all my questions. And just pleasant without the snobbery despite this being SoCal - as opposed ot many of the Bay Area BMW dealers who seem to think they are doing you a favor by "letting you" purchase a vehicle. He said they are looking to sell 50k/yr which is reflected in the price. I also like the fact that they don't nickle and dime you like BMW - the higher end Ghibli (not base) includes pretty much all of the options you could want including heated seats, NAV, rear cameras, bluetooth, bigger wheels etc. I laughed when he said he is getting people trading in Teslas - apparently the performance deteriorates as the battery discharges, just like an electric toy - doh! Did not surprise me to hear that most of his customers lease for 18-24 months (typical LA mentality) so I'd bet there are some good deals on relatively lightly used Maseratis (though in LA the mileage can be an issue).

Performance wise it appeared to compare favorably to the F10 especially the lower end 5-series (though to be fair those are muich cheaper). No runflat nonsense. Hard to see how it is "fundmentally inferior" with respect to design or performance though I have not yet sifted through the maintenance complaints. The 5-series itself doesn't have a great track record on maintenance (BMW generally is being hammered on this subject) - mediocre compared to my Japanese cars with the same miles. In any case I am not sure how much worse it will be with Maserati and I certainly won't miss the bare bones "included maintenance."

In the end I think price may be a critical factor for me. I might be willing to stretch my budget a bit to get to $75k but $90k is too rich for my blood. With Euro delivery I would think I could get a decent 5-series for $60k. As you can tell I am pretty stale with BMW build quality which IME doesn't seem well suited anymore for long-term ownership but it sounds like Maserati isn't much better in this regard. As for the QP, if I ever have that kind of money I would probably go for the M6 sedan. Resale value is also an issue as always a possibility I could be tranferred overseas so I don't want something that is going to drop like a stone.
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Last edited by Boraxo; 04-18-2014 at 03:13 PM.
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  #133  
Old 04-18-2014, 03:29 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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  #134  
Old 04-18-2014, 03:36 PM
ahmadddd ahmadddd is offline
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duplicate post.. removed
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  #135  
Old 04-18-2014, 04:14 PM
ZoomingBy ZoomingBy is offline
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U should see the instrument cluster at night, it look cheap!

While the are good looking cars, it is no replacement for what F10 has to offer




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  #136  
Old 04-18-2014, 05:08 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by ahmadddd View Post
Update to my post above... I did a test drive and the car is a big disappointment! ! Everything is harsh, everything feels cheap, steering feels weird and sticky on turns, the car is very noisy with significant exhaust droning at all speeds and on comfort mode to. No matter what you do the base like sound and exhaust drone will give you headache. Some sort of harshness and squeak on U turns.. looks like the all wheeel drive
Is not designed well the the front drive shafts or mechanism suffers on big turns.

The seat motor felt cheap when I moved the seat backwards (cheap sound, squeaks) and at last despit the noise engine and exhaust the caf doesnt move!!! It has a serious turbo lag!

Buttom line, worst experience, everything is sub par in this car and its a piece of crap, it will fall apart within couple of years in my openion and you need to be friends with the mechanic

I wish they could take more parts from chryslers as the 300c is much better car, only the Nav and the windowz switchex felt good as both are from Chrysler which is miles ahead of Maserati.
Yes, the car really is a POS. Sad, because I really wanted to get one before I figured out how fundamentally unfinished and incomplete (and that's being nice) it is.

This scathing review, which is so scathing you'd think can't be legit, I find to be very accurate. And his complaints echo all the complaints most people who test the car and come away unimpressed, have:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ll-test-review
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'15 Mazda 3 i Sport.

Recents: '13 BMW 535i M Sport: Black/Black, Prem/Tech/Sport Auto/etc. M-B's: '11/10/06 E350 "Sport", '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

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  #137  
Old 07-04-2015, 11:58 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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You might not think that a luxury car as exclusive as the Maserati Ghibli S Q4 would ever be headed to the rental car fleets. But then again, this isn't any normal rental car fleet.

National Car Rental is adding the Ghibli S Q4 to its "Premier Selection" group, a special area of the rental lot where a few super-premium cars are offered. The Ghibli, which comes billed as Maserati's first midsize luxury sports sedan, can be rented at 10 National airport locations. They are Boston, Fort Lauderdale, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Nashville, Orlando, Phoenix, Raleigh-Durham, San Diego and Seattle.

"Through our work with Maserati, one of the most premium vehicle manufacturers in the world, we are able to provide National customers with another high-end upgrade option for their next rental," said Rob Connors, an assistant vice president for National, in a statement.

Ghibli S Q4 was introduced last year as Maserati's smaller model — 11 inches shorter than the Quattroporte sedan. Yet it still has the hallmarks of the brand, including a a 404-horsepower Ferrari-built twin-turbocharged V-6 engine, eight-speed transmission and Brembo brakes.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ibli/18796315/
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  #138  
Old 07-04-2015, 11:59 AM
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http://jalopnik.com/the-maserati-ghi...lux-1714664806



Quote:
Good news, ladies and gentlemen! I have decided to devote an entire column to the Maserati Ghibli, which is a highly expensive new luxury sedan that offers roughly the same level of actual luxury as a floor lamp.

Yes, it's true: over the next several hundred words, I'm going to say several mean things about the Maserati Ghibli. (Pronunciation: "GEE-BLEE." Nickname: "Gibbles and Bits.***8221 If you are a Maserati fan, I suggest you get out now, or at least start an angry thread about me over on the Maserati forums.

I'm going to begin in a place where Maserati's designers and engineers clearly didn't: the car's equipment levels. Before writing this column, I devoted considerable time researching this issue (approximately nine minutes, while I was on the toilet) and I've reached the conclusion that Maserati equipped this car in the following way: First, they carefully examined each and every rival, to see what their competitors were offering. And then they didn't include any of that stuff.

For an example of what I'm talking about, I turn to safety features. I also turn to the BMW 5-Series, which is dramatically better than the Ghibli despite going on sale five years ago. These two cars are rivals in the same way that Ethan Allen is a rival to the furniture aisle at Wal-Mart.

Here's what I mean: even though the 5 Series is one of the oldest cars in this segment, it still has everything. It has a parking camera that gives you a top-down view of the car and a look at the sides. It has forward collision alert with automatic braking. It has a blind spot monitor. It has a full-color heads-up display. It has a lane departure warning system. It has an automated parallel parking assist feature. It has night vision, for God's sake.

Do you know what tops the Ghibli's list of safety features? A backup camera.


Yes, folks, that's right: the 5-year-old BMW 5-Series is cruising around with technology they have on nuclear submarines. And the most exciting safety feature in the "newly released" Ghibli is something that the federal government is mandating in two years anyway.

But maybe safety equipment isn't your thing. Maybe you're into gadgets, technology, cool features you can show your friends when they hop inside your new luxury car and ask why you didn't get a Prius. So I've decided to see how the Ghibli stacks up against the Mercedes-Benz E-Class - another midsize luxury sedan rival that's even older than the BMW 5-Series. Here goes:

Massaging Seats
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: Passenger can reach across and poke you

Panoramic Sunroof
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: Stick your head out the normal sunroof for a panoramic effect

Lane Keeping Assistant
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: Has steering wheel

Adaptive Cruise Control
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: You "adapt" by hitting the car in front of you

Carbon Ceramic Brakes
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: Er…. look over there!

Power Trunk Lid
E-Class: Yes
Ghibli: Yes, if the trunk is open and the wind is blowing very hard

I could do these for hours. I could harp on about how the E-Class offers automatically adjustable seat bolsters that hug you in the corners, and the Ghibli doesn't. I could talk about how the E-Class offers a feature that'll open the trunk when you slide your foot under the bumper, and the Ghibli doesn't. I could mention that the E-Class has automatic high beams, and the Ghibli doesn't.

I could mention that the E-Class has a feature that'll let you know if someone's coming when you're backing out of a parking spot, and the Ghibli doesn't. And I wouldn't be alone in this complaint: Motor Trend, Cars.com and a newspaper reviewer all said the same thing.

I could also mention powertrain choices. I could talk about the fact that BMW offers a hybrid, a diesel, a 4-cylinder, a 6-cylinder, a regular V8, and a high-performance V8, while the Maserati is saddled with merely two engine options: a turbocharged 3.0-liter V6, and a slightly more powerful version of that same turbocharged 3.0-liter V6. Yes, it's true: I could talk about all this stuff. But I won't, because I don't want to embarrass the good people at Maserati North America, who are currently trying to see if they can offer the Ghibli in July for $299 per month and nothing down.

Speaking of deals, here's the Ghibli's biggest problem: it isn't one. Consider this: a base-level 5 Series starts right around $51,000 with shipping. Likewise, the E-Class starts around $53,500 including destination. So what does the Ghibli cost? The Ghibli, with its tiny dealer network and its unproven reliability? The Ghibli, a hopeful newcomer to a highly competitive segment with dozens of established competitors? The Ghibli, with far less features and equipment than its rivals?

That's right: $71,000 with destination.

And for that money, you get a 345-horsepower V6, rear-wheel-drive, and optional steering column shift paddles. Spend seventy-one grand on a 5 Series and you could have a 445-horsepower, V8-powered, all-wheel drive, top-of-the-line 550i xDrive - and you'd still have enough money left over for a) a vanity plate that says "MASER LOL", and b) a new refrigerator.

Now, in the past, we've all known that the Italians didn't exactly offer the very best value on the market, but we've sort of ignored it. For instance: the Ferrari F430 didn't have side airbags, even though the Koreans were installing them in cars that cost nine grand back when Chandler and Joey were still roommates. The old Quattroporte had a navigation system that was about as useful as asking for directions from a old blind Italian woman who didn't speak any English. In fact, she may have been the lead engineer.

But this was fine, because these cars were Italian, and this was part of the charm. So we ignored the flaws, and we prattled on and on about how good these vehicles sound, and how fun they are to drive, and how much character they have, largely because we were so excited that the Italians gave us a press car in the first place.

But here's the thing: this time, we can't ignore Maserati's flaws. Over the last few years, they've added dozens of new dealers all across the country. They've ramped up production dramatically. And they've set a sales goal of 50,000 units by the end of 2015, up from 6,200 in 2012 - an eight-fold increase in just three years. In other words: Maserati wants to be "one of the guys" in the luxury car world; one of the main players; one of the top choices, rather than just some fringe brand that's only considered by people who plan to let their estate worry about the depreciation.

So have they succeeded? Have they created a world-class luxury car? At a competitive price? With competitive equipment? And a competitive dealer network? That would be: no, no, no, and no, respectively. What they've done is they've given us a nice $40,000 car with a $30,000 badge on the front. And you don't need BMW Night Vision to see that.
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  #139  
Old 07-05-2015, 01:49 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Harsh but hilarious and very true. They really do seem to think a nice sounding exhaust and a badge is worth 30k more
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  #140  
Old 07-05-2015, 02:48 PM
samplermike samplermike is offline
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Porsche Panamera over a Ghibli any day.
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  #141  
Old 07-05-2015, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by samplermike View Post
Porsche Panamera over a Ghibli any day.
I'm with you on this, but a Panamera is basically $30-50k more than a Ghibli loaded up.

Hell, a F10 and Audi A6 basically cost more than a Ghibli these days. Dealers are wheeling and dealing Ghiblis in my area
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  #142  
Old 07-05-2015, 07:03 PM
Headup Headup is offline
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Alright, test drove Ghibli yesterday ...and I can ramble on about what I felt and other things...but basically...besides the exhaust tone...it was a big fat NO for me and I drive a 528...the car handles great and sounds great..but the interior turned me off so much I couldnt wait to get back to my 528..overall, for me...the BMW is still a solid choice...I would rather save my moolah till I can afford a 'proper' Maserati and the maintenance...Maserati GT is next on the list to try....
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  #143  
Old 07-06-2015, 05:51 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I'm with you on this, but a Panamera is basically $30-50k more than a Ghibli loaded up.



Hell, a F10 and Audi A6 basically cost more than a Ghibli these days. Dealers are wheeling and dealing Ghiblis in my area

They are dealing on them because no one wants them. After reading the reviews, I did not even bother to look at one. No car that gets reviews that bad would ever make it on my short list of possible purchase options. Maserati made the mistake of thinking that people would drop 80k for the badge regardless of the fact that the car is garbage. Big mistake.
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  #144  
Old 07-06-2015, 05:55 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Maserati Ghibli - A replacement for your 5 Series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Headup View Post
Alright, test drove Ghibli yesterday ...and I can ramble on about what I felt and other things...but basically...besides the exhaust tone...it was a big fat NO for me and I drive a 528...the car handles great and sounds great..but the interior turned me off so much I couldnt wait to get back to my 528..overall, for me...the BMW is still a solid choice...I would rather save my moolah till I can afford a 'proper' Maserati and the maintenance...Maserati GT is next on the list to try....

The "proper" Maserati cars suffer from the same problems. I have a couple of acquaintances who purchased the GT and Quattroporte and, once the novelty wore off, they conceded that the car was overpriced junk. For the price of a new GT (or less), there are many better choices out there.
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  #145  
Old 07-06-2015, 07:28 AM
ImolaRedM ImolaRedM is offline
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Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
The "proper" Maserati cars suffer from the same problems. I have a couple of acquaintances who purchased the GT and Quattroporte and, once the novelty wore off, they conceded that the car was overpriced junk. For the price of a new GT (or less), there are many better choices out there.
FCA doesn't have a very good track record and it's worse in recent years. No thank you. I think I would rather look to the Jaguar before I looked to FCA for my next car.
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  #146  
Old 07-06-2015, 07:34 AM
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Judy G Judy G is offline
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Originally Posted by greyF10 View Post
Wasn't "Ghibli" one of the Hobbits?
I think that was Gimli.
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  #147  
Old 07-06-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ImolaRedM View Post
FCA doesn't have a very good track record and it's worse in recent years. No thank you. I think I would rather look to the Jaguar before I looked to FCA for my next car.

I'm not sure Jaguar is really a major step up to Maserati either. Their quality and fit/finish is pretty terrible as well.
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  #148  
Old 07-06-2015, 08:39 PM
ImolaRedM ImolaRedM is offline
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I'm not sure Jaguar is really a major step up to Maserati either. Their quality and fit/finish is pretty terrible as well.
Agreed. But still better than FCA.
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  #149  
Old 07-07-2015, 05:57 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Originally Posted by ImolaRedM View Post
Italian cars are nice to look at and sound nice driving.

How many repeat buyers are there?

I would buy a Porsche over a Ferrari, all things being equal. Given the chance to drive one for a day I might go for the Ferrari. The same is true if the option was BMW vs Masaratti.

When I was younger, my GF had an Alpha. Fun car to drive when it wasn't in the shop but build quality was crap. Drove some older Ferarris and while the quality was much better, I could see myself getting tired of driving it but they make nice garage queens, weekend drivers.

I'll pass on the Italian cars. I'll take a BMW or Porsche, thank you.
I have owned a 1962 or 3 Alfa Romeo GTV, a 1971 Fiat Sport Coupe and a 1974 Lancia Coupe. Best driving cars I have ever owned. All these cars were purchased new at a time when only (possibly) Mercedes cars came from factory with air, electric windows, etc.

That was a different era, one I look fondly at these Italian cars. I almost went for a new Maserati Ghibli instead of a new 5 Series but two things kept me from looking further into a lease for one of those. We are now retired in our old age, and we hardly put any milage on just one car, much less two cars:

1. My wife would never on her old age put up with the beautiful but loud exhaust sound.

2. My heart and pocket could never put up with the price of regular by-the-book service of these cars.

I drove a Maser spider owned by my brother-in-law a few year back and the only thing I didn't like was the paddle shifters.

This car's heart is FERRARI...let's NOT forget that!

I chose a '71 Fiat over a BMW for the same price. The BMW appeared better built, with better quality plastics inside a la VW Beetle. The Fiat had all around disk brakes instead of front only, Rack&pinion instead of recirc. ball steering, 5 speed tranny instead of 4 and dohc aluminum engine design by Ferrari's Ing. Lampredi. To me it was all very emotional, instead of the cold Bimmer that at that time had not made it's name in this country.

Needles to say we enjoyed that car to the maximum, especially after finding a Turkish indy mechanic who took all the recirculating crap off the engine and with a few more changes restored the performance this little gem of an engine was able to produce...all the way up to the 7,000 rpm red line, but I digress.

Last edited by HugH; 07-07-2015 at 06:25 PM.
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  #150  
Old 07-08-2015, 09:31 PM
BruinsFan BruinsFan is offline
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Originally Posted by Judy G View Post
I think that was Gimli.
Correct! But he was a dwarf, not a Hobbit! I know - its sad that I know that

mike.
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