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E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:17 AM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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1993 318I manual will not start after dying

OK, I am new to this, so please go easy on me. I have used your forum to solve problems in the past, and have seen this problem posted, but never to where there is a solution. I was pulling my 318I out of my garage after changing the fuel pump, it started and drove fine for 100 yards, stalled and died. My first thought was that I had screwed up somewhere in installing the pump, so I checked that, and found that it had 11.8 volts to it, until you tried to start it, then the voltage disappeared. I used a power probe to deliver the correct 12 volts, and the pump started working, so me next thought was pump relay. That checked out, but I changed it anyway to be sure. Then I moved on to the fuse, that checked out, but no voltage, so I checked the socket, and there was no voltage. I did some research and found out that this could be the cause of a bad crank position sensor, so I went out and changed that, nothing. The only other thing that I can possibly think of is the DME. Something else strange is that the power windows and sunroof have also stopped working, so now I am wondering if it could possibly be something to do with the anti theft EWS system, but I have no idea how to test for this, or reset it. Any help you guys can give me would be gratefully received.
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Andy
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  #2  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:39 AM
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Jesse Moon Bayne
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When you did the fuel pump, did you change anything else?
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  #3  
Old 04-21-2014, 01:20 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andeb2000 View Post
found that it had 11.8 volts to it,
Andy
Welcome, Andy!

Does the engine spin when attempting to start it? 11.8v is considered too low for normal operation. I'm wondering if you have battery or battery connection problems.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:01 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Thanks for the replies, to answer your questions when I changed the fuel pump I changed the sender unit as well, but nothing else. The engine turns over, has spark, but the fuel pump does not kick on unless you apply 12 volts to it directly, then I have plenty of fuel.
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  #5  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:49 PM
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you could probably need a relay.




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  #6  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:36 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Nope, relay has been replaced
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:38 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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Apply 12v directly onto the pump? Sounds like something is lose/breakeded.

Did you try to re-plug everything back on? You sure you have the right fuse/relay as well?
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  #8  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:49 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Hi thanks for your input, nope, everything has been plugged back in and I have 12 volts at the pump until I try to start the vehicle, then the voltage drops to zero and the pump does not work. Am I right in thinking that the rout of the voltage is DME to fuse to relay to pump? Thanks
Andy
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2014, 05:53 PM
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ok....lemme see.....


you replaced your fuel pump, went to drive it, and it died.




then you went helter skelter checking and changing things......


did you check for power to the fuel pump while cranking with a test light??


you could have a defective fuel pump. what kind did you install??






df
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:59 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Yes checked the fuel pump with a test light, no voltage when you crank the engine. There is no voltage at the fuse. If I apply voltage to the fuse using my Power Probe, the pump kicks on, but the engine will not start, even though it is cranking and sparking.
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Andy
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:23 PM
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Time for a noid light check of the injector circuits. I'm guessing cam position sensor. If it was the crank sensor it wouldn't be sparking, either
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2014, 06:24 PM
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ok. so no power to the fuse. the fuse isn't blown??


then you need to find out what supplies power to that fuse and fix it.

could be the ignition switch, could be a different fuse that may be blown (check all of them), or something else.

check the fuses first, though, as it is the simplest operation to do. if they all check out, then you will need to dig further.

check the stickies for a wiring diagram for the fuel and ignition circuits.




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  #13  
Old 04-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Anyone know what supplies the juice to fuse 18?
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:30 PM
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wiring diagram.....



there's a link to them in the stickies, but i forget where...








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  #15  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:27 PM
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Andy,

Right-click and "save as":

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/19...g%20Manual.pdf

It's a PDF of the factory electrical troubleshooting manual for the 1993 E36
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guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
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1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?

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  #16  
Old 04-25-2014, 07:23 PM
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thanks ken!!

i never can seem to find them when i look for them....



anyway, section 1210.9 looks to be where you need to go with the 4 banger.

fuse 18 gets power through the fuel pump relay, and also powers the o2 sensor heater.


looks like pin 1 @ the dme is the ground for the relay.

it grounds the relay when the key is on and then will turn the power off if no crank signal is detected. so if you key one, *then* go check for power to the fuse, more than likely by the time you get there with your test light the dme has turned the power off.....


check for power with the engine off, then have an assistant turn the key on. the light should turn on for a brief time then power off. then, when that happens, wait a second after it turns off and then have the assistant crank the engine. if no light then the dme is not seeing a crank signal. if it power up, then you should have power to the fuel pump.


check your fuel pressure. you will need to 't' into the line to do so. not too difficult, but not the easiest operation. bmw could have made it soooooo much easier by using a schrader valve....


the way it sounds to me, i think that you may have a faulty fuel pump. even new they can sometimes fail. what kind did you get again?? (if airtex, then turn in your man card.....)






df
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2014, 11:07 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Thank you for all of your help. I will be applying your knowledge tomorrow and will follow up with you all tomorrow thanks andyt
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2014, 08:00 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Success.......We will see tomorrow

Guys I think horn hospital nailed it. Cam sensor. I purchased a code reader from Bavarian and up popped the code for a faulty cam sensor. New one will be in tomorrow, and then we shall see. Thank you all for your help, I will let you know what happens.
Andy
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2014, 06:43 AM
hnaz hnaz is offline
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In my experience, I have never known the cam sensor to cause THAT much draw. Something is amiss.

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  #20  
Old 05-02-2014, 11:17 AM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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What draw? He's mentioned nothing about a draw.

Rook to Queen's pawn 2, Check.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot

Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 Forum Mod/Craigslist addict/Hoarder of all sorts of stuff
BMW-CCA #441426
1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?

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  #21  
Old 05-09-2014, 09:10 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Well guys, back to the drawing board. Changed cam and crank sensor, fuel pump is still not kicking on. Engine cranks but will not start, no juice is getting to the fuel pump,. I changed cam sensor 3 times, to make sure I did not have a faulty one, and I am still getting an E10 fault code
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  #22  
Old 05-09-2014, 10:06 PM
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the dme powers up the fuel relay circuit.....it has *nothing* to do with the cam sensor.

the crank sensor is the input to the dme to let it know the engine is cranking, but the ignition switch powers up the dme to prime the pump first, which is why you neef to check the power to the fuel pump on initial key on cycle, or when the engine is cranking.

did you check the fuel pump like this??

step one, put the test light to the fuel pump power supply and ground the other end of the test light.

step two, power up the car by turning the key on, but do not crank the engine.

the light should come on and then go out after about 1-2 seconds.

this indicates the dme controling the circuit.

if this does not happen, then the dme is not getting power to the circuit, so etiher a faulty dme or a faulty ignition switch.

if this does happen, *now* you can crank the engine the test light should come back on again if the dme sees and recognizes the crank sensor input.

if not, then you need to verify the signal from the crank sensor is getting to the dme. if it is, then this would indicate a faulty dme.

if no signal, then you need to check the sensor. since it appears that you have already tried replacing this sensor, i doubt it is the fault.



so either your diagnostic process is off base, or you are missing something.

do the test(s) like i suggested and report back. you may need an assistant to crank while you hold the testlight.




df
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  #23  
Old 05-30-2014, 02:48 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Sorry to take so long in getting back to you guys, had a couple of health issues that put me out of action. OK here is the update, I checked the fuel pump circuit, and if I apply 12v to the fuse using a power probe, the pump kicks on immediately. So as you suggested, I retraced all the steps taken, and found out that not only does the fuel pump not work, but I also have no spark. I checked cylinder 1 & 2 to eliminate a coil pack failure or a bad plug. So I went back to the newly installed crank sensor, and tried to get an ohms reading across the sensor, but all I got was the OL reading across pin 1 & 2 and 3 & 2. Is this telling me the new crank sensor I installed is faulty, or should I be looking at the ignition switch. Engine cranks, battery is reading 12.8v across the terminals so what can I do next. Oh I almost forgot, peake tester is giving me a fault code of E10, and will not clear when I use the reset tool.
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  #24  
Old 05-30-2014, 03:30 PM
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hornhospital hornhospital is offline
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A dead crank sensor is a definite no-start situation. The ECU never "sees" the engine turning, so it never turns on the fuel pump or fires the injectors and plugs.

Props for actually testing the "new" one. I'd order one from one of the BMW parts vendors (Pelican Parts, ECS, Bavauto, etc.)

Sorry about your health issues. I hope that's all good now.
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Quotes to live by:
guessing gets expensive...drivinfaster
nothing is more expensive than a cheap BMW...c4harpe13
buying a ratty example (of a BMW) is a parasitic relationship.(and you ain't the mosquito) 7pilot

Ken Kanne, Silverhill, AL, E36 Forum Mod/Craigslist addict/Hoarder of all sorts of stuff
BMW-CCA #441426
1995 318is "Bebe"; 1993 325is "Elvira" 1985 635CSi "Katja" 1984 633CSi "Sylvia"
HAVE I HAD MY MEDS YET?

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  #25  
Old 05-30-2014, 06:27 PM
Andeb2000 Andeb2000 is offline
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Thanks Hornhospital, yes feeling much better now, I am ordering a new CPS from Bavarian today. I will keep you informed of the results.
Best wishes
Andy
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