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F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current)
The 5 Series Gran Turismo -- now available in the USA as a 535i, 550i and 550i xDrive model.

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  #1  
Old 04-17-2014, 09:45 AM
chuckgibbs chuckgibbs is offline
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Fuel Injectors in N63 engine

Sorry to bring this to issue if it has been started before. But I have a 40k model 550i GT, (2010) with fuel injector problems. Every oil change (not just adding oil) reveals a need to change at least one bank of injectors. At first (I bought the car with 23k miles from a dealer), the issue was the fuel I was using. BMW dealer gave me a handout with the list of "approved" premium fuel manufacturers and I've stuck to that. This occurred at about 32k miles. I was just wandering if this is common to that engine. If it is I would definitely consider getting rid of this car before the warranty runs out in November this year. I costs between $600-$800 each time to have this done, if I were to have to pay for it myself. Otherwise, it's the best car I've ever had (had 3 previous 500 series).

Woud an additive be advised?
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:43 AM
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Fish23 Fish23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckgibbs View Post
Sorry to bring this to issue if it has been started before. But I have a 40k model 550i GT, (2010) with fuel injector problems. Every oil change (not just adding oil) reveals a need to change at least one bank of injectors. At first (I bought the car with 23k miles from a dealer), the issue was the fuel I was using. BMW dealer gave me a handout with the list of "approved" premium fuel manufacturers and I've stuck to that. This occurred at about 32k miles. I was just wandering if this is common to that engine. If it is I would definitely consider getting rid of this car before the warranty runs out in November this year. I costs between $600-$800 each time to have this done, if I were to have to pay for it myself. Otherwise, it's the best car I've ever had (had 3 previous 500 series).



Woud an additive be advised?

I don't see why using a good brand name additive for fuel injectors for a few tankfuls wouldn't be worth trying to see if it makes a difference between defective or just 'dirty' injectors.

I have seen nothing that discourages using additives in BMW engines (unless I have missed something). Every now and again I run injector cleaner as preventive maintenance. I have had no adverse effects (though I have a 535 xi GT).

I am not sure what your driving profile is but I would put additive in a full tank and go for a good diatance at highway speeds for as sustained a cleaning as possible. That may well make a difference at a cost of the additives and some of your time.

It will be interesting to see what other responses are submitted. Good luck.





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  #3  
Old 04-22-2014, 07:58 AM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is online now
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Mein Auto: 2010 550i GT, 2011 535i
Fellas I beat this drum to death, but if you have had to deal with drivetrain malfunction issues caused by ignition related problems ie hesitation, de-rating, shuttering, shaking, etc then you would be more than happy to use straight Techron in 20 gallon treatment bottle size regularly and often. I have been told numerous times that it does not help our direct injection engines, but I have received responses from Chevron as to their studies that have shown that it does help with carbon build up in direct injection engines. If you search Chevron Techron responses on our forum you will see the response I posted. If you are having injector issues and you are under warranty then you dealer should do an intake cleaning for you. We had an intake cleaning that fixed our issue, and we will have another performed soon as it is recommended maintenance.
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2014, 01:50 PM
MisterScott MisterScott is offline
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This turned out to be the issue with mine around 37K. I have a 2010. I coincidently just added a jug of Techron cleaner that I had on the shelf in the garage yesterday before I saw this thread wondering if it would help or destroy the engine. I had at least 6 injectors in my 2010 550GT changed. I was experiencing a shudder on tip in at speeds. The tech indicated to me that there was a revised injector that came out subsequent to the to the initial rollout. I forgot to ask if that is what they replaced them with, I guess they did. I hope that this is not a long term issue with the car. I try and fill up at Exxon. My issue is the 550GT gulps fuel from a relatively small tank and sometimes I NEED to fill up. I wish the tank was 25 gallons.
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2014, 11:54 AM
katiesdad7 katiesdad7 is offline
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I was having a boatload of issues with hesitation. At 47K the regional rep looked at the car and had the dealer replace all the injectors with an updated model. This was about a month ago. Seems to be working great now. I have also recently started using DYNAMO fuel additive. It ups regular 87 octane to 93 and it adds a bunch of power and also improves the MPG. The cost of the additive is cheaper than the premium fuel by itself. The increased power and milage are just bonuses. It also clears and lubricators the fuel injectors.
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  #6  
Old 04-29-2014, 02:35 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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Were you using one of the fuels listed on the www.toptiergas.com website? 87 octane is below the minimum recommended for the vehicle, and as a result, it was running way detuned all of the time. It is no surprise that when given the 'proper' octane, that it runs better, and if you were not using one of the fuels listed, the recommendation is to use a cleaner periodically. Failure to do any of that, and the vehicle can become a disappointment over time.
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  #7  
Old 06-03-2014, 05:24 PM
chuckgibbs chuckgibbs is offline
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Fuel injectors for 63 engine

This is response to many comments. I have only used 91 octane, but the list of approved Brands (including shell and conoco) only came out last summer...two full injector replacements ago. Since this didn't seem to help, I posted this question from the beginning of the post. I've not added any injector cleaner yet, but with the next full tank, I'll add the Techron brand cleaner. By the way, I take a 14 hour day trip through the Colorado mountains (and have for 20 years now) in late September for Aspen viewing mostly. The last two times I've taken my 550i and been amazed at the mileage I get...right at 26 mpg and a 550 mile one tank day. And I don't have those issues I mentioned in the first post. I drive mostly 65, but let it out on straight-a-ways at 9,000' elevation. Still the best BMW/car I've ever known. I've owned 4 BMWs before with the old 540/6 speed a real fun driving car. Drive train malfunctions have occurred before with my 550i, but only after the yellow engine monitoring light comes on. I never knew that a fuel additive could change gasoline octane. That Dynamo claim seems very interesting.
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  #8  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:59 PM
jadnashuanh jadnashuanh is offline
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I bought my vehicle in the summer of 2011, and picked up a brochure on Top-Tier Gas in the service department waiting room at that time...so, the recommendation for using high detergent gasolines has been around for a long time. Now, over time, the list changes, as marketing decisions and testing shows whether the vendors should still be on the list or not.

Use of one of the approved ones is still no absolute guarantee of whether it will prevent injector issues, but should help.

The higher the altitude, the less prone an engine is to have pre-ignition, and that is somewhat negated by use of the turbo, which brings it back up to 'normal'. But, there's a limit on how much it can boost the air volume, especially at the lower rpms our cars typically run at on cruise.
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2014, 03:19 PM
rogueshot rogueshot is offline
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Can folks post up a bit more info on the hesitation that they were or are experiencing.

our 2010 550GT has started to develop a short hesitation/stutter but only when starting out from a stop - it is noticeable and depending on how hard I am on the throttle it may buck a bit when it does accelerate a 1/2 sec later.

I do not notice anything occurring when getting back into the throttle (other than a downshift at times obviously) at speed. The hesitation is noticeably worse when in drive/sport shift mode (gearshift to the left) and with the dynamic drive set to "sport". It still does it in normal mode and regular automatic but is less obvious/pronounced. It seems to be do it intermittently and without regard to whether the car is cold or hot. And of course the dealer said no fault codes and that they could not replicate the issue. I picked the car up and within 3 lights from the dealer it did it.....(but of course I did not have time to turn around)..sigh.

anyway I am trying to figure out if this is the onset of the dirty intake/fuel injector or something entirely different.
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  #10  
Old 06-10-2014, 05:15 AM
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Fish23 Fish23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogueshot View Post
Can folks post up a bit more info on the hesitation that they were or are experiencing.

our 2010 550GT has started to develop a short hesitation/stutter but only when starting out from a stop - it is noticeable and depending on how hard I am on the throttle it may buck a bit when it does accelerate a 1/2 sec later.

I do not notice anything occurring when getting back into the throttle (other than a downshift at times obviously) at speed. The hesitation is noticeably worse when in drive/sport shift mode (gearshift to the left) and with the dynamic drive set to "sport". It still does it in normal mode and regular automatic but is less obvious/pronounced. It seems to be do it intermittently and without regard to whether the car is cold or hot. And of course the dealer said no fault codes and that they could not replicate the issue. I picked the car up and within 3 lights from the dealer it did it.....(but of course I did not have time to turn around)..sigh.

anyway I am trying to figure out if this is the onset of the dirty intake/fuel injector or something entirely different.
rogue, I noted that you indicated the Drive/Sport for the transmission and setting the DD to Drive (presumably set to 'throttle on'). I am not sure at all if it is harmful (at worst) and non-optimum (at best) to be in those modes simultaneously. Both alter transmission shift points (one mechanically and one via software I presume) and I have often wondered if those shift points occur at the same time or could be different especially at the low end). If there is a 'conflict' between the two modes, it might explain the symptoms you experience when you use both together but it would not explain what you experience at the other times.

What do you experience if in D/S alone or in Sport (or Sport +) alone - is it this?

short hesitation/stutter but only when starting out from a stop - it is noticeable and depending on how hard I am on the throttle it may buck a bit when it does accelerate a 1/2 sec later.

or is it different?
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  #11  
Old 06-10-2014, 06:47 AM
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daders daders is offline
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@ rogueshot:

I hope it is a carbon build up issue for you and, IMHO, it sounds like it is...how many miles have you put on it since you took delivery?

I can only reference our before/after experience with the Audi having carbon build up issue where they performed an induction (chemical cleaning of the build up) and replacement of the injectors.

Before: Engine behaving as if it were going to stall when idling (but only occurred after about 15-20min of driving), no sensation of problems while normal driving, sharp miss/klunk if trying to 'punch it' above 40mph.

After: no issues to date (3.5 months/1k miles)

The tech actually relayed to the SA that he was shocked there were no fault codes, that's how bad it was.

My fear is they fixed the symptom not the cause, but the induction is a recommended service at 35k intervals for Audi.
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2014, 08:05 AM
Rogue2258 Rogue2258 is online now
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Your wallet will be lighter exponentially before the dealer recommends an intake cleaning. Injectors, ignition coils, spark plugs....then they will recommend a cleaning. Pay the $250 for a cleaning. Run Techron through it frequently with high quality fuel. Wonderful engine the N63. Pretty finicky in our experience. High temps and big power. I just repaired 5 coolant leaks. We have an upper pan gasket leaking at present. It is a commitment.

Also our hesitation did not fully dissipate until 30 miles of driving after our intake was cleaned. They knock the build up loose, but it still needed to be pushed out. We found the experience disheartening. Your hesitation is not going to go away by itself.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:49 AM
rogueshot rogueshot is offline
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thanks for the input.

the stutter/hesitation definitely exists in all DD and shift modes - it is most likely to occur in sport mode and sport/manual shifting (but just leaving it in DS). I do not notice (and would have expected to) any hesitation when punching it at any speeds - it always happens off the line.

I will keep hounding the dealer to diagnose it. It is frustrating when it only happens maybe 20%-30% of the time. My wife who notices nothing even has turned to me when the car bucks/hesitates and asks if I did it on purpose.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2014, 05:27 PM
MisterScott MisterScott is offline
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Rogueshot, do you or has anyone else experience a shudder at speed on throttle tip in? The issue I have at speed is back and I am out of warranty.
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