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F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)
F80 BMW M3 sedan, F82 BMW M4 coupe and F83 M4 convertible forum. This 5th generation M3 and all new M4 features a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine (engine code S55) 425hp and 406lbs of torque! Heavy use of light weight materials makes this generation lighter and faster then the outgoing E9x M3.

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  #1  
Old 08-14-2014, 07:28 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Thumbs down Traction control woes

Ah, I hate the way traction control works in this car. It is the most aggressive system I have ever seen. It is constantly cutting power all the time! I just got owned by a crappy S4 because DSC was flashing like a christmas tree. I mean at first I was like "oh yeah, car is so powerful that's why", but my M5 never did it any of this. DSC on that car would only kick in if I were going WOT in 1st gear. That car has much more power and torque than the M3, so i dont get it.

I want to clarify, its 2nd to 3rd I am complaining about. 1st gear is utterly useless, but I wouldnt complain as much if 2nd gear worked fine.

Yes you can turn the traction control off, but I am never going to do that in public roads. MDM makes no difference in straightline acceleration scenarios, it allows more slip on drifting.

My take is, BMW made the DSC so aggressive to give room for improvement in competition package. I wish there was a way to tweak the parameters using an aftermarket tune.

By the way, launch control is almost always smokey burnout, but thats going to have its own thread.

Last edited by DerStig; 08-14-2014 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:17 PM
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Ummmm, turn the TC off and stop being a pansy. Maybe you purchased too much car.
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:19 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Ummmm, turn the TC off and stop being a pansy. Maybe you purchased too much car.
I had an M5 before this, which was much more of a car than this M3 and never had an issue.

It has got nothing to do with the car being too much. It is bad engineering and software tuning. Same thing could happen in a 128.

I would never turn the traction control off in traffic.
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:43 PM
M3Inline6 M3Inline6 is online now
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
I had an M5 before this, which was much more of a car than this M3 and never had an issue.

It has got nothing to do with the car being too much. It is bad engineering and software tuning. Same thing could happen in a 128.

I would never turn the traction control off in traffic.
Everybody has differing philosophies. Having spent a lot of seat time in multiple iterations of ///M5, I don't know if I share your sentiment. Wonderful car(s) though! It's interesting how differently we all perceive cars. I haven't had any of my friends with F8X's have issues with the TC, nor have they labeled it "bad engineering".
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Old 08-14-2014, 08:58 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Everybody has differing philosophies. Having spent a lot of seat time in multiple iterations of ///M5, I don't know if I share your sentiment. Wonderful car(s) though! It's interesting how differently we all perceive cars. I haven't had any of my friends with F8X's have issues with the TC, nor have they labeled it "bad engineering".
Same driver, 3 different cars (E9X M3, F10 M5, F80 M3). My driving style hasn't changed. I haven't had this issue in two of the three cars. There is not much more I am going to say. I am not making anything up and I don't think people should have to turn traction control off to be able to enjoy a 2nd to 3rd casual spirited driving. This thing cuts me off every single time almost. Again, I am not flooring from a stand still. This is on a roll at 25-30 mph on 2nd gear.

Reducing tire pressures all the way to 30 psi did not make a difference. It also seems like whether tires are 85F or 105F does not make much of a difference.

Last edited by DerStig; 08-14-2014 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
Same driver, 3 different cars (E9X M3, F10 M5, F80 M3). My driving style hasn't changed. I haven't had this issue in two of the three cars. There is not much more I am going to say. I am not making anything up and I don't think people should have to turn traction control off to be able to enjoy a 2nd to 3rd casual spirited driving. This thing cuts me off every single time almost. Again, I am not flooring from a stand still. This is on a roll at 25-30 mph on 2nd gear.

Reducing tire pressures all the way to 30 psi did not make a difference. It also seems like whether tires are 85F or 105F does not make much of a difference.

I didn't insinuate that you were making up anything. I merely said that I haven't personally heard anybody complain about the TC.


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Old 08-14-2014, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
I had an M5 before this, which was much more of a car than this M3 and never had an issue.

It has got nothing to do with the car being too much. It is bad engineering and software tuning. Same thing could happen in a 128.

I would never turn the traction control off in traffic.
Really?! I drive with the DSC off 99% of the time. Drive that Bitch like you stole it and don't let any Audi beat you again, otherwise we will repossess your BMW.
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Old 08-15-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GBPackerfan1963 View Post
Really?! I drive with the DSC off 99% of the time. Drive that Bitch like you stole it and don't let any Audi beat you again, otherwise we will repossess your BMW.
Just curious but why would you do this?

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive due to this experience: we were driving on 94 from MSP to MKE in the left lane (a Taurus with my wife driving). A pickup carrying a huge camper suddenly moved into our lane - my wife glided left to avoid the collision and as soon as the tires hit dirt the car spun us down into median where we 180'd, shot us back up & across 3 packed lanes of 80mph traffic where we 180'd again and went back down into the median. 15 years later you can still see our tire marks on 94 and had this happened a little north or south we'd have plowed into trees or worse.

Anyway, that Taurus has no traction control - if it had we'd have probably just coasted to a stop or just merged back in with traffic.

EDIT: I should add that I drive with MDM on mostly as on the e9x it gives you some great tail action and is not intrusive in any way. I'm thinking the M4 might suck in this respect as I've heard this complaint a lot and seen it in videos

Last edited by GrussGott; 08-15-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:32 AM
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GBPackerfan1963 GBPackerfan1963 is offline
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Just curious but why would you do this?

Maybe I'm just overly sensitive due to this experience: we were driving on 94 from MSP to MKE in the left lane (a Taurus with my wife driving). A pickup carrying a huge camper suddenly moved into our lane - my wife glided left to avoid the collision and as soon as the tires hit dirt the car spun us down into median where we 180'd, shot us back up & across 3 packed lanes of 80mph traffic where we 180'd again and went back down into the median. 15 years later you can still see our tire marks on 94 and had this happened a little north or south we'd have plowed into trees or worse.

Anyway, that Taurus has no traction control - if it had we'd have probably just coasted to a stop or just merged back in with traffic.

EDIT: I should add that I drive with MDM on mostly as on the e9x it gives you some great tail action and is not intrusive in any way. I'm thinking the M4 might suck in this respect as I've heard this complaint a lot and seen it in videos
Most of the time the weather here is very fair and I feel I have more control over the vehicle without the nannies intervening. 6 years of driving this way with Greta has a constant smile on my face. I can do controlled tail action, break traction in three gears. Life is good.

I had my own episode on 99 going to Modesto. I'm in the #1 lane, it's raining pretty good, we go under an underpass and an RV in the #2 hit a big puddle of water, spraying it all over the front of my Buick Regal causing me to hydroplane. I'm headed to the center divider, counter steer, it whips back into the #1 lane and I proceed to do 3 360 turns across 4 lanes of traffic as I'm watching 2 big rigs flash before my eyes in the #3 and #4 lane.

Don't ask me how, but I wasn't struck by any vehicle even though I was in the ice plant pointing against traffic. Yep, had to change underwear that day.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GBPackerfan1963 View Post
Most of the time the weather here is very fair and I feel I have more control over the vehicle without the nannies intervening. 6 years of driving this way with Greta has a constant smile on my face. I can do controlled tail action, break traction in three gears. Life is good.

I had my own episode on 99 going to Modesto. I'm in the #1 lane, it's raining pretty good, we go under an underpass and an RV in the #2 hit a big puddle of water, spraying it all over the front of my Buick Regal causing me to hydroplane. I'm headed to the center divider, counter steer, it whips back into the #1 lane and I proceed to do 3 360 turns across 4 lanes of traffic as I'm watching 2 big rigs flash before my eyes in the #3 and #4 lane.

Don't ask me how, but I wasn't struck by any vehicle even though I was in the ice plant pointing against traffic. Yep, had to change underwear that day.
Sounds like a scene from 'Gone in 60 Seconds'.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:23 PM
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Sounds like a scene from 'Gone in 60 Seconds'.
Seems to me the OP should just quit constantly griping about the M4 (long list of negative comments in other threads) and go back to an M5 if he likes it that much better - we got the point, ye don't like the car, but you're in a minority here! Move on my friend and find something you like, life is too short!
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:42 PM
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Seems to me the OP should just quit constantly griping about the M4 (long list of negative comments in other threads) and go back to an M5 if he likes it that much better - we got the point, ye don't like the car, but you're in a minority here! Move on my friend and find something you like, life is too short!
Word!
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:15 PM
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Seems to me the OP should just quit constantly griping about the M4 (long list of negative comments in other threads) and go back to an M5 if he likes it that much better - we got the point, ye don't like the car, but you're in a minority here! Move on my friend and find something you like, life is too short!
^ This.

And there's no excuse for letting an S4 "own" you...that's on you, dude .
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:36 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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Seems to me the OP should just quit constantly griping about the M4 (long list of negative comments in other threads) and go back to an M5 if he likes it that much better - we got the point, ye don't like the car, but you're in a minority here! Move on my friend and find something you like, life is too short!
Nothing I said about the car is incorrect. They are also not subjective or hearsay. They are all concrete facts. A lot of the "amazed" owners need to remove the blinders and look at this car objectively.

With respect to this topic, I have owned performance cars for a long time, including an M5 CP which is known to make north of 620hp in crank with close to 600tq and I am telling you, even that car didn't have this issue.

Just an hour ago, I was in my car with my wife and kid and same thing happened 2 or 3 times. I was mildly accelerating on 2nd gear and at 6000rpm, it feels like someone is holding the car back and DSC lights off. My CA who also test drove this car for a long time way before the car hit stateside also had told me the traction issues.

Don't just dismiss me right away, the fact that BMW simply took the DCT and LSD right out of M5/M6 and put them into this car could be the issue. Or maybe it's a software issue, something is just not right. Mark my words, once the hype dies, you will hear people complain about the same more.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:00 PM
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Traction

I'm gonna seem like I'm trolling here, but I'm really not.

I had an E90 335, now I drive a "crappy" S4. I've always wanted an M car and I'm considering replacing the S4 with the F80 M3. This thread makes me think twice though.

The cons of the S4 are it's heavier than the M3 and under steers. But it's hard to beat the AWD and torque vectoring sports diff when the roads are wet more than half the year hear in the pacific northwest. The S4 is a really great daily driver. It seems like the F80 M3 does have the potential to suffer from a lot of low RPM torque that would be hard to take advantage of if traction is at all limited by wet roads etc.

I don't want a track car, just a fun performance oriented sedan that will keep my commute spirited when I want it to be.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DerStig View Post
Nothing I said about the car is incorrect. They are also not subjective or hearsay. They are all concrete facts. A lot of the "amazed" owners need to remove the blinders and look at this car objectively.

With respect to this topic, I have owned performance cars for a long time, including an M5 CP which is known to make north of 620hp in crank with close to 600tq and I am telling you, even that car didn't have this issue.

Just an hour ago, I was in my car with my wife and kid and same thing happened 2 or 3 times. I was mildly accelerating on 2nd gear and at 6000rpm, it feels like someone is holding the car back and DSC lights off. My CA who also test drove this car for a long time way before the car hit stateside also had told me the traction issues.

Don't just dismiss me right away, the fact that BMW simply took the DCT and LSD right out of M5/M6 and put them into this car could be the issue. Or maybe it's a software issue, something is just not right. Mark my words, once the hype dies, you will hear people complain about the same more.
Your response nailed my point perfectly!
Most of us have measured and realistic expectations of cars like these and honestly the 'hype' you refer to imo is pertinent to far fewer owners/posters. I have no doubt that if I was as disappointed as you appear to be with this car I would have sold it already.
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Old 08-16-2014, 06:54 AM
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I'm gonna seem like I'm trolling here, but I'm really not.

I had an E90 335, now I drive a "crappy" S4. I've always wanted an M car and I'm considering replacing the S4 with the F80 M3. This thread makes me think twice though.

The cons of the S4 are it's heavier than the M3 and under steers. But it's hard to beat the AWD and torque vectoring sports diff when the roads are wet more than half the year hear in the pacific northwest. The S4 is a really great daily driver. It seems like the F80 M3 does have the potential to suffer from a lot of low RPM torque that would be hard to take advantage of if traction is at all limited by wet roads etc.

I don't want a track car, just a fun performance oriented sedan that will keep my commute spirited when I want it to be.
I can understand your reticence being where you are but same old adage, don't rely on hearsay and try to get hold of a test drive (preferably on a wet day which may not be so hard up there) and see for yourself. Best of luck in your choice and hoping you will be pleasantly surprised by the M4
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:54 AM
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The RWD car is so much fun, I mean to be able to slide the rear just a tad enough to have fun and that excitement, pretty much anywhere you want, is priceless. The problem is, as the previous poster said, there is just too much torque down low for this car for it to be able to put it down effectively. The chassis is too light, rear of the car is possibly too light (52/48) to deal with that kind of torque. We all know that this car does 500 or so tq in real life, not 406, and believe it or not, that's actually more torque per pound than the M5 (with dyno corrected).

I am not saying that torque is bad, it's quite handy in 3rd gear pulls for example. But what I'm saying is BMW should have made the DSC tuning just a bit aggressive so that it allows some sort of wheel spin unless the rear diff is getting locked. In other words, if you are accelerating in a straight line, DSC shouldn't be as aggressive as it is now. It is just to intrusive. Yeah sure I can man up and turn the traction control off, but there are times when you have your family with the car, you are accelerating in a 3 lane traffic with cars around you, it's not really the most sound thing to do.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:22 AM
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...But what I'm saying is BMW should have made the DSC tuning just a bit aggressive so that it allows some sort of wheel spin unless the rear diff is getting locked. In other words, if you are accelerating in a straight line, DSC shouldn't be as aggressive as it is now.
I am confused; I thought they did that with the MDM, is that not the case?
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:44 PM
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I am confused; I thought they did that with the MDM, is that not the case?

They did! Stig is a rare case.


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Old 08-16-2014, 01:35 PM
DerStig DerStig is offline
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MDM makes a difference on disproportional tire lock ratios, i.e while drifting/sliding. It makes no difference in straight line acceleration.

Anyways, I was actually going to say that I have had very good successful 9 total runs today with absolutely no DSC coming on and cutting me off. The difference was my tires were all over 110F. It was the same road, so I'm not sure if 15-20F of tire temperature can explain the drastic improvement.

That being said, again, this was not the case in my M5. I know the PSS tires in the M3 has a special compound and are different than the ones in M5. I'm sure all of this for a good reason. Maybe the tires are more track oriented and dont overheat? I'm not sure.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:05 PM
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I don't want a track car, just a fun performance oriented sedan that will keep my commute spirited when I want it to be.
TROLL!!! J/k

I went from an S4 to an e93 M3 in MN where, if you're not familiar, it's wet a lot, it's snowy a lot, and it's iced a lot.

My B6 S4 with Nokians was a wet/ice/snow machine monster - I'm very serious when I say that I could out perform most all trucks in the snow - drifts and door high snow is where I'd lose if I couldn't plow through them (which I did frequently )

But ... the S4 just wasn't enough, it didn't scare me and i'd frequently reach it's limits. And, like you, I don't track or Auto-x, just want something sporty.

So I stepped up to an e93 M3 which I did ED sight unseen, never test drove, never had driven ANY BMW much less an M-car. I figured as long as I was going RWD I might as well go convertible too.

So here are my learnings:

(1.) The M3 in the snow gets by but it's no S4
(2.) The M3 in the wet is fecking play-time awesome if you like that kinda thing
(3.) The M3 in the dry will scare you - if you punch it in high revs you better have road in front of you and a good plan on what to do with it
(4.) The M3 in MDM-mode is a tail-wagging blast
(5.) The M3 in the twisties destroys the S4 - not even comparable ... it makes the M3 everything

If I look at my gives-gets the M3 wins by a long shot - it's just way, way, WAY more fun. period. Yes, in crazy bad weather you'll wish you had the S4 but for me that was maybe once.

Another thing is everyone raves about the Audi interiors ... now I've had Audis for 10 years and I can say that my 1999 A6 had a stellar interior but it was really down hill from there. The B7 platform cut so many corners compared to previous gens it kind of put me off Audis. And I don't like their exterior styling any more either - total snooze fest. (no offense) Both my wife and I felt the M3's interior was a step up from our A4s and S4 and I like the UI better.

Anyway, I'd go back to Audi in a second if they made anything I like but they don't. I considered the RS5 but it really doesn't seem to compare well with the M4,

Just my 2 cents! The good news is we're all very lucky to have these problems!!

Last edited by GrussGott; 08-16-2014 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:21 PM
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First, I am glad you could resolve your issue.

Second, I am not sure I understand what you said below. A differential will lock up or loosen based on wheel speed difference and in the case of M diff it also computes the lock up based on other parameters. I think you are assuming that traction at each tire is equal during straight line accel, which most often is not. Although I have no clue as to how the diff works in conjunction with DSC, do you have any technical info regarding that relationship?

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MDM makes a difference on disproportional tire lock ratios, i.e while drifting/sliding. It makes no difference in straight line acceleration..

Last edited by FT; 08-16-2014 at 09:22 PM.
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