Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 1 Series & 2 Series > F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)

F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 10-29-2016, 04:12 PM
Mick22 Mick22 is offline
Registered User
Location: SF, CA
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 71
Mein Auto: 2015 228i M-Sport
That's the exact same feeling I have about it and how I'll perceive my decision down the line. I hope you're enjoying the car! If I wasn't so picky about noticing the numb steering then I would be eager to purchase, but I am quite hesitant because of it. I suppose if I were to not go for it, then by the time the lease expires on any current purchase the next gen will be out and they'll have put better hardware into the steering.[/QUOTE]

I do still really like my car! The steering is a flaw, but not a fatal flaw. I can't think of another car in the price range that I would rather have then my 228i.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:09 AM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Westchester County, New York
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 149
Mein Auto: 228i
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaCracker View Post


When you're not driving a car for the luxury component, a Miata becomes more viable. I wouldn't actually care about the convertible part (would consider an RF). Looking for a car that's really fun to drive. Lack of steering feel sort of kills the experience for me.
If the criteria are a mix of sporty driving characteristics and for you steering feel in particular, then I perhaps can see the comparison. But the fact remains in several terms the Miata is a very different vehicle as compared to the 2 series. It's not only that it is a convertible, since obviously you can get the 2 as a convertible, too.

What I suppose is a general quality of "luxury" is not the only thing that separates them. The 2 is a four seater, which changes the character of the car very much. related to that is that it has more space overall. The 2 is also literally faster overall. As a consequence of its different purpose and overall design, it weighs more. it also comes in a greater variety of iterations, pointing out it is a more flexible basic design suited for those different applications and options.

Perhaps I am more conscious of this than some, since I very much was looking for exactly the kind of car the 2 is in terms of its basic design parameters. For example I might have even considered a Mini as a possible alternative, but having driven them find the wheelbase length too short and too distracting in highway driving over less than even surfaces. Just me - feel free to disagree, but that is the kind of metric that with several others led me to pick the 2 as a virtually unique car. 2 door, fast yet efficient, four seats when needed, a useful trunk, and comfortable yet not filled with unnecessary and weight adding features. It could be lighter in absolute terms, but relative to the market, it is lighter than most cars.

As a consequence I do not view the Audi A3/S3 as comparators, although the sole difference being they are 4 doors makes it close. And the Audi TT similarly while a 2 door is a 2 seater. For 2 doors the Camaro and Mustang are at least worth considering as alternatives, but for personal reasons I feel it silly to get those without getting the V8 versions, and I did not want to go that route.

Imo the 2 series is, right now, the only car out there that hits all the criteria that it does.

Last edited by kenny164; 10-31-2016 at 08:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-31-2016, 08:14 AM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Westchester County, New York
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 149
Mein Auto: 228i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick22 View Post
That's the exact same feeling I have about it and how I'll perceive my decision down the line. I hope you're enjoying the car! If I wasn't so picky about noticing the numb steering then I would be eager to purchase, but I am quite hesitant because of it. I suppose if I were to not go for it, then by the time the lease expires on any current purchase the next gen will be out and they'll have put better hardware into the steering.
I do still really like my car! The steering is a flaw, but not a fatal flaw. I can't think of another car in the price range that I would rather have then my 228i.[/QUOTE]

Coincidentally I took a 500 mile trip in my 228i this weekend, and despite having participated in this thread last week I did not notice steering feel as a problem the whole trip. The car performed flawlessly.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:32 PM
jmg416 jmg416 is offline
Registered User
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 14
Mein Auto: M235ix
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny164 View Post
If the criteria are a mix of sporty driving characteristics and for you steering feel in particular, then I perhaps can see the comparison. But the fact remains in several terms the Miata is a very different vehicle as compared to the 2 series. It's not only that it is a convertible, since obviously you can get the 2 as a convertible, too.

What I suppose is a general quality of "luxury" is not the only thing that separates them. The 2 is a four seater, which changes the character of the car very much. related to that is that it has more space overall. The 2 is also literally faster overall. As a consequence of its different purpose and overall design, it weighs more. it also comes in a greater variety of iterations, pointing out it is a more flexible basic design suited for those different applications and options.

Perhaps I am more conscious of this than some, since I very much was looking for exactly the kind of car the 2 is in terms of its basic design parameters. For example I might have even considered a Mini as a possible alternative, but having driven them find the wheelbase length too short and too distracting in highway driving over less than even surfaces. Just me - feel free to disagree, but that is the kind of metric that with several others led me to pick the 2 as a virtually unique car. 2 door, fast yet efficient, four seats when needed, a useful trunk, and comfortable yet not filled with unnecessary and weight adding features. It could be lighter in absolute terms, but relative to the market, it is lighter than most cars.

As a consequence I do not view the Audi A3/S3 as comparators, although the sole difference being they are 4 doors makes it close. And the Audi TT similarly while a 2 door is a 2 seater. For 2 doors the Camaro and Mustang are at least worth considering as alternatives, but for personal reasons I feel it silly to get those without getting the V8 versions, and I did not want to go that route.

Imo the 2 series is, right now, the only car out there that hits all the criteria that it does.
I had the Audi S3 before I got my m235. I only had it for 6 months as my insurance company declared it a total loss due to an accident. And that was after 26K in repairs.

I gave in and got the BMW as my wife wanted a convertible. But as far as steering feel and fun factor, I put the Audi well ahead of the BMW. And it is for the reason the OP mentions; numb steering. Of course this is just my opinion. But I would go so far as to say the Audi still wins even if you compare it in comfort mode to the BMW in sport. And I also really miss my D shaped wheel.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-31-2016, 02:06 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cincinnati, OH
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,556
Mein Auto: '17 GTI '16 981 CS
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanillaCracker View Post
As a whole package I think the 230i is fantastic, but I guess as steering feel has changed over the years I found myself going more and more towards true "sports cars" in order to meet my fun driving standards.
I wonder where are you going to go. I strongly suggest you find yourself a gently used 987 Cayman or 997 911 because there isn't much civilized left sold new with a steering feel sold as a standard equipment. I dare you to daily drive Alfa 4C or any Lotus ...

Don't get me wrong, 981 and MD Miata are hugely fun cars to drive and certainly more engaging then current crop of non-M BMWs, but it seems to me that both require some ... er ... interpretation when driven at street speeds* in order to understand what is going on with front tires. Or a hearing aid, if you are over 50

*________

981 gets a partial pass because, when equipped with PASM, it tightens suspension just enough on SPORT setting that steering wheel comes truly alive. That, however, does not come standard. Unfortunately, that has also large drawback when your roads are like in sub-Saharan Africa so I don't like to use it on normal roads here in SW Ohio. Would be a great tool on North Italian or German roads, though!
__________________
_

2017 Golf GTI |Silver over tartan cloth| MT| Base S, no options. Oh, wait! ... It does have a spare tire!

2016 981 Cayman S | 6-speed MT| Active suspension | Sport Exhaust System | Torque vectoring (with LSD) | Sport seats + | Sport design steering wheel

2013 VW Golf TDI [CONFISCATED]

2011 E92 335i 6MT ZSP ZCW (ED May 17th 2010) [SOLD]
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:27 PM
VanillaCracker VanillaCracker is offline
Registered User
Location: Washington DC
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: E92 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
I wonder where are you going to go. I strongly suggest you find yourself a gently used 987 Cayman or 997 911 because there isn't much civilized left sold new with a steering feel sold as a standard equipment. I dare you to daily drive Alfa 4C or any Lotus ...

Don't get me wrong, 981 and MD Miata are hugely fun cars to drive and certainly more engaging then current crop of non-M BMWs, but it seems to me that both require some ... er ... interpretation when driven at street speeds* in order to understand what is going on with front tires. Or a hearing aid, if you are over 50

*________

981 gets a partial pass because, when equipped with PASM, it tightens suspension just enough on SPORT setting that steering wheel comes truly alive. That, however, does not come standard. Unfortunately, that has also large drawback when your roads are like in sub-Saharan Africa so I don't like to use it on normal roads here in SW Ohio. Would be a great tool on North Italian or German roads, though!
Sorry I meant to respond to this like 2 months ago lmao. I ended up getting a Miata RF. Since good road feel is gone, I was left no other choice but to either a) go with a more visceral driving experience, or b) "get used to" the numb steering, which I refuse to do; since it lead to an overall muted driving experience. Likely my next car (after this) will end up being a Cadillac since they are doing good things both overall and in the EPS category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg416 View Post
I had the Audi S3 before I got my m235. I only had it for 6 months as my insurance company declared it a total loss due to an accident. And that was after 26K in repairs.

I gave in and got the BMW as my wife wanted a convertible. But as far as steering feel and fun factor, I put the Audi well ahead of the BMW. And it is for the reason the OP mentions; numb steering. Of course this is just my opinion. But I would go so far as to say the Audi still wins even if you compare it in comfort mode to the BMW in sport. And I also really miss my D shaped wheel.
Yeah it's a little hard to say at this point exactly what specifics I remember being worse about the BMW versus the A5, but I would agree, the A5 just had a more together approach to sporty. The BMW was faster (noticeably, instant throttle, etc), and more tactile overall, but that's what made the numb steering even worse (since it was such a noticeable sore point). Everything else was there in spades, but the most important thing wasn't. Audi was just more cohesive.

I probably would have really loved the E92, sad I didn't have the chance to own one of those when it was newer.

Last edited by VanillaCracker; 02-16-2017 at 09:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-16-2017, 07:22 PM
wunderkind wunderkind is offline
Registered User
Location: canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 90
Mein Auto: 330ci, MZ3 Roadie, X1 ZSL
Congrats few mfg can outdo Mazda in driving feel and none for the price.
I don't know why BMW seems to be so bad in this area. Unless we are too hard on them especially for those who enjoyed past BMW driving excellence.

As one of the poster said you'll get used to it and compensate.

Last edited by wunderkind; 02-16-2017 at 11:19 PM. Reason: stupid auto correction!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:41 PM
VanillaCracker VanillaCracker is offline
Registered User
Location: Washington DC
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: E92 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg416 View Post
I had the Audi S3 before I got my m235. I only had it for 6 months as my insurance company declared it a total loss due to an accident. And that was after 26K in repairs.

I gave in and got the BMW as my wife wanted a convertible. But as far as steering feel and fun factor, I put the Audi well ahead of the BMW. And it is for the reason the OP mentions; numb steering. Of course this is just my opinion. But I would go so far as to say the Audi still wins even if you compare it in comfort mode to the BMW in sport. And I also really miss my D shaped wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post
Congrats few mfg can outdoor Mazda in the driving feel depressed and none for the price.
I don't know why BMW seems to be so bad in this area. Unless we are too hard on them especially for those who enjoyed pay BMW driving excellence.

As one of the poster said you'll get used to it and compensate.
Thanks! Yeah this car is the definition of a drivers vehicle, and I love flicking it through the gears. By the time I'm bored of this, and the convertible aspect; I'll be ready for a luxury sports sedan.

I don't either. I knew EPS was bad, but I had the impression BMW would have found a way to make it sporty. Turns out they just tighten the wheel like every other company and take away as much road feel as possible since they cater towards luxury first now. I knew ahead of time that I didn't want to compromise on the sporty/fun factor, and so considering how non-communicative it felt, that was a deal breaker for me.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 1 Series & 2 Series > F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms