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F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

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  #1  
Old 06-09-2016, 07:25 AM
Bernie@Bimmerfest Bernie@Bimmerfest is offline
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BMW 2 Series and M2 Gran Coupe are coming

”more doors”

In the spirit of not being able to leave a good coupe alone, BMW will be adding extra doors to the 2 Series in the next few years. Alternatively, I hear they will be subtracting 2 doors from the 3 Series, which will be called the Wee Sedan.

Alright, that second one isn't true, but the folks at Autocar got the low down on next Gran Coupes from BMW, finding the 2 Series, as well as the M2 will get the new variants. The M2 GC will keep its Coupe counterpart's 365bhp turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder engine. With Audi likely brining the RS3 to the US for 2018, and Mercedes offering the AMG CLA45, the M2 GC should slot right in as a competitor, keeping BMW in step with the other German automakers. The UK could see the 2 Series GC as early as 2019, with the US following in 2020.

Quote:
Secrecy surrounds the bodystyle of the new BMW, which is due to be produced alongside the 2 Series Coupé and Cabriolet at the German car maker’s plant in Leipzig. Until recently, senior BMW officials were undecided whether to follow the direction already taken with the 4 Series and 6 Series GranCoupés (a traditional four-door design) or to favour a more radical five-door liftback proposal for the 2 Series GranCoupé.
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  #2  
Old 06-09-2016, 12:07 PM
Wolvesq Wolvesq is offline
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Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm pumped for a 2 GC. And not because it will add any meaningful passenger space -- it won't. The back seat is tiny. But for styling reasons. It could correct the only exterior demerit I see on the 2 coupe, namely, the back third and trunk, which always looked a bit pinched to my eye. If a 2 GC gives a 2 a more fluid rear quarter the way a 4 GC gives the 4 a more fluid look (again, to my taste), and if they give it an (awesome) hatchback trunk hood, I'd rank it as one of the sexiest cars on the planet. Not just one of the best to drive, but one of the best to look at too.

Last edited by Wolvesq; 06-09-2016 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 06-09-2016, 01:23 PM
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I would be interested in an M2 GC with 4 doors. I get tired of parking jenga and being concerned about opening my door and hitting the car next to me. I am probably in the minority.
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Old 06-11-2016, 04:58 AM
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I wanted a 2 series GC two years ago, but they said it'll never happen. So I went and got a Jaguar F-Type. I'll come bach to BMW if they prodce a small hatchback the size of an older 3 series.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:54 AM
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I am very interested in this. The 2 series was not available when I bought my MY13 F30 and If the 2 series had been out I'd have bought one instead. I prefer the smaller dimensions of the 2 series.
The F30 is already big enough (to me) and I wouldn't want to replace it with an almost certain bigger F30 replacement.
A 2 series GC would probably be the perfect fit.
Now all BMW have to do is ensure that the 2GC gets the same HK system as the 3'er (with the full equalizer) and maybe the heads up display and I'm sold
2GC 220d msport....yes please
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Old 06-14-2016, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUH CAR View Post
I wanted a 2 series GC two years ago, but they said it'll never happen. So I went and got a Jaguar F-Type. I'll come bach to BMW if they prodce a small hatchback the size of an older 3 series.
Same boat. Sold my 1 a while ago due to the 2-door/trunk combination being too impractical. I still miss it.

If they offer a 2 GC w/hatchback AND a manual trans, I'm in. Heck, I'd still be in if they had offered the overseas 1 in 5-door HB over here.

Don't need/want an M version, though, so I guess we'll see in a few weeks!

Last edited by kosmo; 06-14-2016 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
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... I'd still be in if they had offered the overseas 1 in 5-door HB over here ...
+1

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Old 06-15-2016, 07:50 AM
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This confuses me,

I have a 435 GC (which I LOVE, and like the looks of more than I like the 4 coupe actually). For my next lease, I was hoping to move "up" to a M4 GC but have read that BMW says they wont make it. Not sure why they said they wont make it, but they said they wouldnt. Some here on the boards said it would take sales from both the M3s and M4s because they were the same market. Ok, I dont agree but /shrug what are you going to do?

Now, they are taking the M2 and going to make a M2 GC? How is this not seeing as taking sales from the M3? Why would you have a M2 GC, and a M6 GC, but not an M4 GC? This really just feels like a car that is taking advantage of all the great press (probably deservedly so, I have not driven one but hear they are great) of the M2.

Someone explain to me how this car is going to be significantly different from an M3 (its going to be a smaller 4 door car), but we could not have a M4 GC with that body shape / styling?
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Old 06-15-2016, 09:33 AM
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I saw a rendering of one. Looks pretty sweeeet
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Old 06-20-2016, 03:00 PM
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I'm interested. The biggest thing keeping me from getting a 2 series is the two-doors. I have a 7 year old and a 2 year old and the wife would never sanction the purchase of a 2-door coupe. The current 2 series is just not practical for me.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Internetguru View Post
I would be interested in an M2 GC with 4 doors. I get tired of parking jenga and being concerned about opening my door and hitting the car next to me. I am probably in the minority.
I'm with you, even though the doors on my F22 are considerably shorter than the ones on the 4-series coupe. They are still relatively hard to control, especially with the configuration and placement of the interior door handle.
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:21 AM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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BMW 2 Series and M2 Gran Coupe are coming

Keep in mind these are rumors regarding the next gen 2 series. Earliest we will see one is 2020 given a 7 year model cycle. Variants such as a GC and m2 would come later. Plus all signs point to the next gen 2 series being fwd based. So it would be more like an Audi rs3 vs a 1m or current m2. I wouldn't lose much sleep over this
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Old 06-22-2016, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
This confuses me,

I have a 435 GC (which I LOVE, and like the looks of more than I like the 4 coupe actually). For my next lease, I was hoping to move "up" to a M4 GC but have read that BMW says they wont make it. Not sure why they said they wont make it, but they said they wouldnt. Some here on the boards said it would take sales from both the M3s and M4s because they were the same market. Ok, I dont agree but /shrug what are you going to do?

Now, they are taking the M2 and going to make a M2 GC? How is this not seeing as taking sales from the M3? Why would you have a M2 GC, and a M6 GC, but not an M4 GC? This really just feels like a car that is taking advantage of all the great press (probably deservedly so, I have not driven one but hear they are great) of the M2.

Someone explain to me how this car is going to be significantly different from an M3 (its going to be a smaller 4 door car), but we could not have a M4 GC with that body shape / styling?
I understand your confusion, given the somewhat risible idea of a 4-door coupe derived from a coupe derived from a sedan. M2 and M3/M4 do not cross compete the way an M3 and an M4GC would. M2 is a smaller, less powerful car. The 2 series does not exist in a sedan or other 4-door version (setting aside the 2-box 1 series), so the decision to make an M2GC is more like the decision to offer both an M3 and an M4.
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Old 07-04-2016, 07:47 PM
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next generation perhaps....it won't be based on the current 2-series, fortunately! i think the next generation 2-series will take a lot more cues from the 2002 Hommage and the original 1-series instead of the more rounded and japanese design themes of the current 2-series.
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Old 07-07-2016, 06:30 PM
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A 2020 model in 2019 would suit me perfectly. The warranty on my oh so practical and oh so boring Volvo will have expired, and it will be a perfect time to rotate back into a fun, small BMW -- practicality be damned.

As long as they don't screw it up with FWD and/or automatic only for the 4-doors.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:24 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Like its competitors, BMW is attempting to be all things to all people. IMOP, the model lines are becoming blurred and worse, no one has mentioned the pricing in all this.
I am coming out of a 2013 F30. It replaced what I thought was a better car--the E90. (the 90 was a lot closer to the "ultimate driving machine").

I am now looking at a 228 which appears to be a better car (if you are ok with the loss of space) than the three. Currently, the two lease will actually cost considerably more than
a similarly equipped three. Right now there is bupkus on the two incentive wise. An Audi three has suddenly become a viable alternative (two more doors) and packaging/pricing that makes it something someone like me has to seriously consider.

Audi is offering "conquest" cash--BMW offers little/nothing to defend their current owners. Paying $1450 for leather is becoming more and more ridiculous. BMW buyers/leasers are forced into paying a not inconsiderable amount of money just to bring base models up to a car that approaches that "ultimate driving machine."

BMW is also becoming confusing--too many packages, options and variants--they are moving closer to GM back in the day--"oh so a radio and hubcaps are "extra" in my Pontiac!"--a hint of the increasing confusion was the really bad idea of those "three carlines" offered when the F30 was introduced. Build a great car, equip it with simple packages that make sense marketing wise (there's that $1450 for leather charge again). Consumers shouldn't have to spend hours on line "building" the car they "want" and figuring out
how much it costs--then try and find that car in inventory!
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:28 AM
kosmo kosmo is offline
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^^^ Although mathematically impossible, I agree 1,000% with everything John says.

But they still manage to keep selling more and more vehicles?!
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:33 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
^^^ Although mathematically impossible, I agree 1,000% with everything John says.

But they still manage to keep selling more and more vehicles?!


Actually, I don't know whether to laugh or cry!
As noted, I am looking at my third BMW lease. You'd think they would be going a little extra mile (ok kilometer) to keep me a happy loyal customer. I discovered the meager $500 loyalty incentive was dropped for July.

The BMW folks should take a look at the competition conquest offers out there.

Amazingly, an identically equipped Two has a substantially higher lease price than a three series.

Both Edmunds and TruCar are helpful but BMW has so many options/variants that finding the car equipped the way you want yields a confusing mess inventory wise--

I am reminded of that great scene in Lost in America where Albert Brooks is on the phone with a mercedes dealer going over a new car he is purchasing.
Brooks asks "that includes leather right? I get leather seats?" the salesman on the line says "you get vinyl" Albert--gee that's a lot of money for a car and I don't get leather? Salesman--it's Mercedes Vinyl!" You want leather, I'll buy you a pair of shoes and throw em in the front seat!"
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:08 AM
mohrgan mohrgan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnL345 View Post
Like its competitors, BMW is attempting to be all things to all people. IMOP, the model lines are becoming blurred and worse, no one has mentioned the pricing in all this.
I am coming out of a 2013 F30. It replaced what I thought was a better car--the E90. (the 90 was a lot closer to the "ultimate driving machine").

I am now looking at a 228 which appears to be a better car (if you are ok with the loss of space) than the three. Currently, the two lease will actually cost considerably more than
a similarly equipped three. Right now there is bupkus on the two incentive wise. An Audi three has suddenly become a viable alternative (two more doors) and packaging/pricing that makes it something someone like me has to seriously consider.

Audi is offering "conquest" cash--BMW offers little/nothing to defend their current owners. Paying $1450 for leather is becoming more and more ridiculous. BMW buyers/leasers are forced into paying a not inconsiderable amount of money just to bring base models up to a car that approaches that "ultimate driving machine."

BMW is also becoming confusing--too many packages, options and variants--they are moving closer to GM back in the day--"oh so a radio and hubcaps are "extra" in my Pontiac!"--a hint of the increasing confusion was the really bad idea of those "three carlines" offered when the F30 was introduced. Build a great car, equip it with simple packages that make sense marketing wise (there's that $1450 for leather charge again). Consumers shouldn't have to spend hours on line "building" the car they "want" and figuring out
how much it costs--then try and find that car in inventory!
I'm late to the party but fully agree here!!!
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Old 07-14-2016, 03:44 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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BMW's strategy for selling cars is based on the cars being something special in their customer's lives. So, yeah, they offer a lot of options. An F10 offers 19 different paint colors. They've figured out that people will pay extra to have exactly what they want. They've also figured out that a customer-ordered car, on average, has more options than a dealer-ordered car. BMW further encourages customer ordering of car with Performance Center Deliver and Weld Delivery.

I recently tried to order a Honda. I had Frau Putzer pick out a salesman who wasn't a **** when she had her car in for service, and soften him up. But, when I got there to close the deal, the ******* sales manager was waiting for me and going to set me straight on how things work there. I lasted about 30 seconds before going to Plan B, ordering a Hyundai. But, you can't "order" a Hyundai. Their options and colors are very limited. You can "preference" one. "Preferencing" means waiting for the vehicle you want to eventually pop up in the production schedule and asking that it be sent to your dealership. After two months, the only answer I could get from the dealership is "maybe one will show up soon." We're now waiting for the G01 X3 to come out.

I'm not big fan of the GT's or grand coupes. But, if BMW can sell more cars by offering two extra bodies on the same platform, more power to them.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 07-14-2016 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:35 PM
kosmo kosmo is offline
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Bump.

Any news on the 4-door 2 Series?

I haven't heard a peep in a long time.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:50 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Bump.

Any news on the 4-door 2 Series?

I haven't heard a peep in a long time.
There's probably a reason there hasn't been a peep. With BMW trying to go back to their historical numbering system (odd first digits being sedans and wagons, even first digits being coupes' and convertibles), a four-door smaller than a 3 Series would be called a 1 Series.

There's a 1 Series for Chinese market coming. But, it's front wheel drive. FWD is necessary if you want to built a car that small as still have room or four people to get in and out of it, and be comfortable when they're in it. Unlike the F22/23 2 Series, if somebody's buying a four-door car they most likely want to put four people in it from time to time.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/heres-a...-series-sedan/

My F10 is cramped compared to Frau Putzer's slightly smaller but front-wheel-drive Honda Accord. The cramped cabin is how I paid for rear-wheel-drive, 50/50 weight distribution, and exceptionally pleasing lines. You pays your money and you makes your choices.
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Old 01-16-2017, 07:17 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
There's probably a reason there hasn't been a peep. With BMW trying to go back to their historical numbering system (odd first digits being sedans and wagons, even first digits being coupes' and convertibles), a four-door smaller than a 3 Series would be called a 1 Series.

There's a 1 Series for Chinese market coming. But, it's front wheel drive. FWD is necessary if you want to built a car that small as still have room or four people to get in and out of it, and be comfortable when they're in it. Unlike the F22/23 2 Series, if somebody's buying a four-door car they most likely want to put four people in it from time to time.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/heres-a...-series-sedan/

My F10 is cramped compared to Frau Putzer's slightly smaller but front-wheel-drive Honda Accord. The cramped cabin is how I paid for rear-wheel-drive, 50/50 weight distribution, and exceptionally pleasing lines. You pays your money and you makes your choices.
Well, suddenly a "special" 228ix appeared. Basically, the overall cost is close to what my three series cost but the 228 contains some additional options. The 228 equipped as I wanted it was simply not in anyone's inventory--the one a salesman did find would have cost me more than the "special" lease car with more options.

This was at the critical point where I was starting to look at Audi etc.

Basically, most car companies build program cars---equipped and priced to have a broad appeal,
these cars/deals are "advertised" and Unless you are looking to "build" your own car--involving wait time and likely close to full price--you will be steered into whatever the company and/or specific dealer wants to sell or lease you.
Supposedly you get a bit of a "deal" the dealer makes some decent money (everybody is happy) etc.....
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:03 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Well, suddenly a "special" 228ix appeared. Basically, the overall cost is close to what my three series cost but the 228 contains some additional options. The 228 equipped as I wanted it was simply not in anyone's inventory--the one a salesman did find would have cost me more than the "special" lease car with more options.

This was at the critical point where I was starting to look at Audi etc.

Basically, most car companies build program cars---equipped and priced to have a broad appeal,
these cars/deals are "advertised" and Unless you are looking to "build" your own car--involving wait time and likely close to full price--you will be steered into whatever the company and/or specific dealer wants to sell or lease you.
Supposedly you get a bit of a "deal" the dealer makes some decent money (everybody is happy) etc.....
I've special ordered every new car I've ever bought, eight so far. Ordering a car does not necessarily mean you have to pay a higher price. It can actually work to your advantage, since any dealer can order the car for you, and you're not locked in to the dealer who has a car closer to what you want. Salesmen and sales mangers balk at ordering cars. They want "their" money that day, from a sale of one off the lot. But, when you start heading for the door (and the next dealer on your list), they miraculously pull their heads out of their ass.

I had to pay full sticker for my 2002 M3. But, that was because I was at the front of a two-year long waiting list. In hindsight, I should have bought two of them. Otherwise, I split the difference between invoice and MSRP, with me getting all the published rebates. I'm willing to pay for good service. If they dealer and the salesman are smart, they can make good money on me in a short time.

The best time or order or buy a car is December and January. Sales are slow, since people are preoccupied with Christmas and paying for Christmas. Also, the weather sucks up north, and nobody has the new car itch. I used to date a car salesmanette. She sold Fords un north, and she'd "starve" in December and January. The end-of-the-month thing works, too.

I presume that 228xi is a 2016 left over. You can get a screaming deal, maybe 20 to 25% off sticker, since both BMW and the dealer are willing to take a bath on it to get rid of it. Manufacturers, including BMW, give the dealers special help in rebates to get rid of last year's lot bunnies. You need to remind them that that car will have an extra year's of depreciation tacked onto it when you go to sell it. I normally abhor consumer leasing of cars. But, a left-over lot bunnies is an exception. That pushes that extra year's of deprecation that BMW FS will have to eat way out to the end of the lease, and out-of-sight-out-of-mind applies. So, they're motivated to give up a lot on the lease terms.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 01-16-2017 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:42 AM
JohnL345 JohnL345 is offline
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I've special ordered every new car I've ever bought, eight so far. Ordering a car does not necessarily mean you have to pay a higher price. It can actually work to your advantage, since any dealer can order the car for you, and you're not locked in to the dealer who has a car closer to what you want. Salesmen and sales mangers balk at ordering cars. They want "their" money that day, from a sale of one off the lot. But, when you start heading for the door (and the next dealer on your list), they miraculously pull their heads out of their ass.

I had to pay full sticker for my 2002 M3. But, that was because I was at the front of a two-year long waiting list. In hindsight, I should have bought two of them. Otherwise, I split the difference between invoice and MSRP, with me getting all the published rebates. I'm willing to pay for good service. If they dealer and the salesman are smart, they can make good money on me in a short time.

The best time or order or buy a car is December and January. Sales are slow, since people are preoccupied with Christmas and paying for Christmas. Also, the weather sucks up north, and nobody has the new car itch. I used to date a car salesmanette. She sold Fords un north, and she'd "starve" in December and January. The end-of-the-month thing works, too.

I presume that 228xi is a 2016 left over. You can get a screaming deal, maybe 20 to 25% off sticker, since both BMW and the dealer are willing to take a bath on it to get rid of it. Manufacturers, including BMW, give the dealers special help in rebates to get rid of last year's lot bunnies. You need to remind them that that car will have an extra year's of depreciation tacked onto it when you go to sell it. I normally abhor consumer leasing of cars. But, a left-over lot bunnies is an exception. That pushes that extra year's of deprecation that BMW FS will have to eat way out to the end of the lease, and out-of-sight-out-of-mind applies. So, they're motivated to give up a lot on the lease terms.
Your situation was/is a lot different. An M series is a different class than someone looking at the standard car (non special) lines equipped as they want it. More concessions are likely involved.

I disagree about your view of leasing. For a lot of people it makes a lot of sense. For others buying is best. I would note that buying cars these days with the intent to keep it beyond the warrantee parameters is a bit of a gamble.

I think you hit on a key factor. Timing. Lease or buy, when you need the car--when you are "in the market"--is critical.

The main reason dealers "balk" at ordering cars is their priority is selling cars already in stock--cars they have purchased (and in some cases "borrowed" money to purchase those cars).

Finally,there's the amount of "work" you as a buyer/leaser want to put into the process. Rarely does a dealer "take a bath" on any car. There's a lot that goes into pricing and the system is "rigged" so dealers can make money beyond the difference between MSRP, sticker and tissue etc. Holdback, factory incentives--dealer (unpublished), consumer (published--maybe). Lease and finance rates, fees etc.

I do like your approach. As long as you are happy, then who makes what is not so important.
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