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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 1 Series & 2 Series > F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)

F22 / F23 2 Series (2014 - Current)
The 2 Series coupe is the replacement for the E82/E88 1 series coupe. Production starts in November 2013 on the 228i (N20) and M235i (N55) coupes. Look for them in dealerships in February 2014. The convertible F23 2 series will follow in the fall of 2014.

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  #1  
Old 09-29-2016, 07:16 PM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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228xdrive or Camaro (V6)

Hi Everyone,

Anyone driven both cars? Which one did you enjoy more? I was thinking about leasing one of these. What say you?
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:45 AM
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The camaro seems a lot bigger to me, and though it is good looking I do not think it would be as fun to drive and I worry about those huge blind spots.

But I'm biased and have not driven either. You should drive both!
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2016, 07:03 AM
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USA-RET USA-RET is offline
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I have neither. I have a C7 and tuned Mini Cooper.

You need to drive both and determine which one pushes your buttons. Only you know what kind of feel and performance puts a smile on your face

A couple of things to consider. BMW has three years free maintenance, Not sure on the Camaro, I know my C7 I got two years.

If you plan to buy after the lease, BMW's are expensive to fix outside of warranty. Chevy dealers are everywhere and reasonable to repair in comparison.

Chevy runs on regular pump gas, BMW uses premium.

The Camaro looks cool (likely to get more attention than the BMW), but with the high belt-line outward visibility will likely be something less than the BMW.

Chevy interior quality has come a long way, but certainly not up to the BMW standards.

Generally speaking, you are likely to get a better deal w/ the Chevy than the BMW.

Test drive them both, then test drive a Mini Cooper S. Surprisingly fun little car

Last edited by USA-RET; 12-27-2016 at 08:46 AM.
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2016, 07:23 AM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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I've been cross-shopping the Camaro (SS) and the M235i for a while now. There is something exciting and different about the Camaro, but my wife thinks its "Whiskey Tango" (ie white trash, in the most pejorative sense, but she's a snob. . . ). And, she thinks I'd tire of the novelty quickly (she may be right). IMHO, if you were going to Camaro, I'd get the V8, its got an INSANE grumble and ferocious acceleration. The fit and finish is much better than previously, and pretty much on par with the 2 series (which I consider sub-par for BMW). Its really almost apples to bananas though, since the 230 is lighter and more responsive, if I couldn't afford the V8, I'd probably choose the 230.
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:33 AM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey895 View Post
I've been cross-shopping the Camaro (SS) and the M235i for a while now. There is something exciting and different about the Camaro, but my wife thinks its "Whiskey Tango" (ie white trash, in the most pejorative sense, but she's a snob. . . ). And, she thinks I'd tire of the novelty quickly (she may be right). IMHO, if you were going to Camaro, I'd get the V8, its got an INSANE grumble and ferocious acceleration. The fit and finish is much better than previously, and pretty much on par with the 2 series (which I consider sub-par for BMW). Its really almost apples to bananas though, since the 230 is lighter and more responsive, if I couldn't afford the V8, I'd probably choose the 230.
I don't judge based on the emblem of the car. I'll just have to test drive both. I have sat in both and I know that the 2 series has excellent visibility and the Camaro has worse visibility. Like most said the 2 series will probably feel more nimble than the Camaro but the Camaro has good steering from what I read.

The only thing that puts me off is the lease rates for the Camaro seem high for the price of the car in comparison to the 228xdrive (2016). I would probably be able to get a lot off MSRP of both models. The residual is over inflated on the 228xdrive compared to the Camaro I think.
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:41 AM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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The only thing that puts me off is the lease rates for the Camaro seem high for the price of the car in comparison to the 228xdrive (2016). I would probably be able to get a lot off MSRP of both models. The residual is over inflated on the 228xdrive compared to the Camaro I think.[/QUOTE]

^^This. If Chevy subsidized their RV's land MF's like BMW, this would be a no-brainer. The reality is the American Iron will depreciate almost 50% in 3 yrs, so guess who gets stuck paying for it. BMWFS pays $$ to artificially inflate the RV's on their cars, making the leases undeniably attractive. I'm still back-and-forth between a BMW lease and a Camaro purchase, and the main reason BMW is still in the game is because of their subsidized residual values. Tomorrow brings new factory incentives for both brands, so I'm waiting with baited breath. . .
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:35 AM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey895 View Post
The only thing that puts me off is the lease rates for the Camaro seem high for the price of the car in comparison to the 228xdrive (2016). I would probably be able to get a lot off MSRP of both models. The residual is over inflated on the 228xdrive compared to the Camaro I think.
^^This. If Chevy subsidized their RV's land MF's like BMW, this would be a no-brainer. The reality is the American Iron will depreciate almost 50% in 3 yrs, so guess who gets stuck paying for it. BMWFS pays $$ to artificially inflate the RV's on their cars, making the leases undeniably attractive. I'm still back-and-forth between a BMW lease and a Camaro purchase, and the main reason BMW is still in the game is because of their subsidized residual values. Tomorrow brings new factory incentives for both brands, so I'm waiting with baited breath. . .[/QUOTE]

According to GM financial I believe the Camaro is worth about 55% after 3 years. Also, GM financial is the sole lender for leasing which in the past wasn't always the case and the rates were better around 2012-2014. You just had more options and for that reason there was competition between the lending arms.
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2016, 12:54 PM
samplermike samplermike is offline
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For a year round daily driver in Rhode Island I would go 228 xdrive. The Camaro will slide all over the road in a dusting of snow.
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2016, 01:37 PM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
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I have no numbers to support this other than a general sense of what has occurred in the past. But for a car like a Camaro, the SS is going to hold its value better than the V6. The V6 from what I've read is a nice car, but let's face it - the Chevy small block V8 is one of the sweetest engines ever, dependable, powerful, tractable, great sound. I literally do not see how you can buy that car without getting the V8. You'd always be second guessing your decision if you got the V6 and I don't care how many they sell.

In BMW's the smaller engine gets you a tradeoff of better balance, so it's not like you have to get one engine or the other.

Having said that I've driven a few Camaros with the prior iteration's body style and think the complaints about poor visibility are overdone. Use the side rearviews, and have all rear views properly angled, and it's fine.

I would say the SS v. the M240 is going to go on a question of style, and for me while I love the appearance of the new Camaro, I don't think it would wear well for me, personally.

But comparing the 230i with the V6? I can't see getting the V6.

Last edited by kenny164; 09-30-2016 at 01:39 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:33 PM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Does anyone know what they could get off on a 228xdrive? Local dealer has one with MSRP of $38,495 and has it listed as around 36k. That is approximately $2,500 off. I bet I could get another $2,500 as it's a 2016. At least according to Edmunds showing a little more than $5,000 off.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey895 View Post
The only thing that puts me off is the lease rates for the Camaro seem high for the price of the car in comparison to the 228xdrive (2016). I would probably be able to get a lot off MSRP of both models. The residual is over inflated on the 228xdrive compared to the Camaro I think.

^^This. If Chevy subsidized their RV's land MF's like BMW, this would be a no-brainer. The reality is the American Iron will depreciate almost 50% in 3 yrs, so guess who gets stuck paying for it. BMWFS pays $$ to artificially inflate the RV's on their cars, making the leases undeniably attractive. I'm still back-and-forth between a BMW lease and a Camaro purchase, and the main reason BMW is still in the game is because of their subsidized residual values. Tomorrow brings new factory incentives for both brands, so I'm waiting with baited breath. . .

I don't think BMW inflates the residuals.
Before looking at any lease deals I made a research based on car listings what is the average depreciation of the BMWs in general. I included a lot of different models and years. Most of them were over 5 years old. The number came up at 17% depreciation per year. I only realized it a lot later that BMW uses a very similar number for the residual calculations.
So this is in fact controlled by the used car markets. BMWs age better.
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Last edited by acoste; 09-30-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:42 PM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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Fwiw, Chevy just added 0%/72 or 20% off 2016's. . . ugh.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2016, 10:56 PM
vegasgolds vegasgolds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp23rockstar View Post
Does anyone know what they could get off on a 228xdrive? Local dealer has one with MSRP of $38,495 and has it listed as around 36k. That is approximately $2,500 off. I bet I could get another $2,500 as it's a 2016. At least according to Edmunds showing a little more than $5,000 off.
A good starting point of a "good" deal is about 9% off the MSRP...

a "great" deal would be 12% off MSRP
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2016, 05:54 AM
Jp23rockstar Jp23rockstar is offline
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Originally Posted by vegasgolds View Post
A good starting point of a "good" deal is about 9% off the MSRP...

a "great" deal would be 12% off MSRP
How much were you able to get off percentage wise?
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:26 AM
vegasgolds vegasgolds is offline
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Originally Posted by Jp23rockstar View Post
How much were you able to get off percentage wise?
I bought my M235i In October 21st of 2015 and got about 9% off. Which I think is pretty good for being the beginning of the year model.
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2016, 06:55 PM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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And although I found a smokin' deal on a 2SS vert, I also found a good deal on a M235 vert, and waffling. . . . towards the BMW, I just trust the brand more. . .
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  #17  
Old 10-23-2016, 08:27 AM
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size matters

I looked at a large number of ragtops before deciding on the '16 228i I picked up last spring. I sat in most and test drove quite a few. I'm 6'4" so legroom is an issue with the sports cars I checked out. It seems that most are not designed for a person over 6' tall.

For me the short windows on the Camaro made me feel like I was sitting way down low in the car. I far prefer the taller windows of the 228i and its better visibility.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:24 AM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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The ergonomics of the Camaro are very different than the BMW. I find there's tons of leg room in the Camaro. Definitely apples to oranges, and V-8 vs. turbo 4 is a crazy difference. This will be my last ICE engine, and I'm happy thus far (only had it two days). I'm sure I'll be back to BMW at some point. . .
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:52 AM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
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^
It's been my take that if you get the Camaro, the true character of the car is only there with the SS and the V8. The 2 series has I think a more, well, flexible nature that shines in different iterations. So I can certainly see the sense of bailey's move here. It's just not one I wanted to take for a number of reasons.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:42 AM
jmg416 jmg416 is offline
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I was looking at the same 2 cars myself. (M235 v V6 convertible) The deals on 16 Camaros are ridiculous right now, but only if you're buying. I was looking at one with a 46K MSRP that they were asking 35K for. And that was without any negotiation. I found the V6 very fun to drive, but not so much the 4 cylinder turbo. The decision came down to not wanting a RWD car and feeling slightly uncomfortable with the long hood that I couldn't see over.
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:05 AM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg416 View Post
I was looking at the same 2 cars myself. (M235 v V6 convertible) The deals on 16 Camaros are ridiculous right now, but only if you're buying. I was looking at one with a 46K MSRP that they were asking 35K for. And that was without any negotiation. I found the V6 very fun to drive, but not so much the 4 cylinder turbo. The decision came down to not wanting a RWD car and feeling slightly uncomfortable with the long hood that I couldn't see over.
I think it fair to say that if one looks at the performance numbers rather than number of cylinders, the true comparator to the Camaro V6 is the 228/230, with the M235/240 in the same range as the Camaro SS. In fact it is my recollection that the turbo 4 in the 2 series is slightly faster and with better mileage than is the Camaro V6. That being the case the cost factor in the comparison is a lot closer.
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Old 10-27-2016, 09:29 AM
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You would have to drive both to find out, the Camaro and 228i xdrive are two completely different driving experiences. Howver, I do know that the camaro is a heavy vehicle any may not handle as well as the 228, especially considering you're looking at the V6. Good luck regardless! Post pics of your purchase (:
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  #23  
Old 10-28-2016, 09:07 AM
kenny164 kenny164 is offline
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Originally Posted by RW Carbon View Post
You would have to drive both to find out, the Camaro and 228i xdrive are two completely different driving experiences. Howver, I do know that the camaro is a heavy vehicle any may not handle as well as the 228, especially considering you're looking at the V6. Good luck regardless! Post pics of your purchase (:
According to Car and Driver, a 16 Camaro V6 with MT weighed 3,467 lbs. That's only 125 lbs. more than a 230 MT.

Car and Driver also said the Camaro V6 generated .91 g on the skid pad with the standard tires. Great handling? Arguably not, but not bad by any measure.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al-test-review
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:42 PM
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taylerdo taylerdo is offline
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So, how is it now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbailey895 View Post
The ergonomics of the Camaro are very different than the BMW ... and I'm happy thus far (only had it two days) ...
I am looking to the Camaro Convertible too -- yours looks stunning !

What is your impression now, after a couple more months ?

Anyone else go with a Chevy Camaro Convertible over the BMW / other choice ?

Thanks.

Don

[Just] Looking at a 2017 Camaro Convertible, V6, 6MT, RWD 2LT, Nightfall Gray Metallic, Kalahari Top, Kalahari seat trim, Dual-Mode Performance Exhaust, and All-Weather floor mats. Can't seem to find a way on the "Build your Own" to add the [supposedly] optional LSD, or to delete the rear spoiler, which IMO is appropriately named and "spoils" the whole look [I know, take it off yourself, and shove "hunting / shooter" earplugs into the holes. Add some paint with a Q-Tip.]

Last edited by taylerdo; 12-22-2016 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Left out a punctuation mark.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:06 AM
jbailey895 jbailey895 is offline
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I'm still loving my 'Maro, its an apples and oranges comparison to some degree. Although the Camaro is visually much bigger, the rear set is a lot smaller than the M240's. IMHO, the visceral feel of the V8's growl was just too good to pass up, and honestly, I like the styling of the Maro over the 2 series, which sometimes looks like a bathtub to me.

My biggest concern is a couple years down the road, as the build quality becomes more of an issue. Just over 2K miles into the car, she's running brilliantly with no issues, but the thin metal of the convertible top mechanism has me wary. Fuel efficiency is not good (15 mpg stop n go, low 20's on fwy) but I knew that going in. My biggest enjoyment comes from a top-down ride with the family on the coast, and thats nirvana for me. . . (and heated and ventilated seats that are more comfy than the Bimmer)

both cars are great, and I occasionally miss the BMW cache, but overall I'm very happy with the Camaro.
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