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Keeping Your 3 Series Origami Top in Tip Top Shape

743K views 564 replies 155 participants last post by  guaporas 
#1 · (Edited)
A special thanks to fun2drive for his huge contribution :thumbup::thumbup:

Okay folks, you asked for it, here it is. In response to everyone who has asked for a Sticky on how to maintain the seals and keep the moving parts of the convertible hardtop lubricated, fun2drive and I have put our heads together and assembled a DIY. Much of this is based on experience, but we have also tried to get as much input as possible from dealership service techs and the photo documentation included is the direct result of my E93 having just been in for a full dealership hardtop lubrication and adjustment.
We welcome contributions of tips and tricks picked up along the way. As always, comments and questions are great. The intent is to have a one-stop resource for people looking for information on keeping the folding hardtop well maintained and problem free.

Probably one of the greatest concerns of any E93 owner is how to keep their folding hardtop free of creaks, squeaks, wind noise and heaven forbid water leaks. If you own one, you are at least marginally aware that there are literally hundreds of parts in the form of seals, hinges, locks, hydraulics, and microswitches that must all work in perfect harmony to deliver the 22 seconds to nirvana top down experience. So, how to keep things running smoothly:

• Keep the rubber seals lubricated and moisturized.
• Secondly, but equally important is to keep the moving joints well lubricated and dust free.
• Listen to your top. For those who acquired their E93s new, think back to what the top sounded like when the car was brand new. If you acquired your car second hand, go to your local dealership and ask them if you can observe (that is listen) to the top of a brand new E93. It should be silky smooth with no squeaks, no jolts and no stickiness.
So, here are some tips and tricks to keeping your top in great shape.

Seal Lubrication:
There are two products routinely discussed when this topic comes up.

Gummi Pflege (which in German, literally translates to "Rubber Care") made by Einzett.

http://www.amazon.com/einszett-914806-Gummi-Pflege-Rubber/dp/B004B8GTQG

Krytox - specifically the GPL205 Grease made by Dupont. This is expensive stuff, but well worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Krytox+gpl205



A couple of words about products to use on rubber seals: Silicon is a natural enemy of rubber. It makes rubber swell and fracture. Whether your tires or your door seals - do your car a favor, spend the few extra dollars to get good products.

Rubber Seal Lubrication:

The rubber seals on your top are very similar to your skin. They need moisture and protection or they will dry out and eventually crack. At the very least they will shrink with dehydration, or prematurely break down due to UV damage.

Gummi Pflege: The applicator is a little bulky. I found the on board applicator to be overkill for the narrow strips of rubber that make up the E93 lateral top seals (those rubber seals running from driver to passenger side).
As an alternative, I use "foam lollipops" available from either Autogeek or Detailed Image. I moisten the lollipop with the Gummi Pflege then run it along the length of the seal including the grooved area. I follow with a microfiber wrapped sponge to help spread the Gummi evenly and mop up any puddles.

Krytox:
This is best applied using your fingers and a little really does go along way. The best description I can use here is watch your wife or girlfriend the next time she applies lip balm or lip gloss. She will take a little tiny bit on the tip of her finger and smooth it all the way over her lips. Same thing applies here. It takes just a little bit to be smoothed the length of the seal.
You need to keep going over the area until you have a uniform thin coating over the entire seal area.
If you live in a cold area of the country and are trying to do this at temperatures below 60F, take a terry face cloth and get it wet with hot water. Wring it out then wrap it around the syringe applicator and let it sit for a few minutes. This will gently warm the Krytox and make it easier to apply. Alternatively, if it is in the tube, let it sit in a coffee mug of hot water for a few minutes to SOFTEN it.
DON'T stick it in the microwave. If you liquefy it, you may alter its properties.

So now that you know what to use and how to apply it, where does it go? For the seals that is pretty easy. If it's black and rubbery (soft and slightly squishy) and it's on either the front or rear edge of one of the top panels or it is between the front and rear passenger windows it is fair game. Pictures do a far better job of explaining it so here they are. Don't forget to use a little Krytox along the area where the side view mirrors mate with the A pillar.

















A quick word about the tensioning cords. While these are not something that can be lubricated or treated per se, it is of value to inspect them for wear. It seems that around MY 2011, the cords were upgraded to a more robust version as earlier cars exhibited fraying of these cords. My 2009 had the cords replaced under warranty in August 2011.
This is what the frayed cords look like and the points where they are the most visible.









The replaced cords are not as silky looking and are holding up much better.



Now for the hinges, locks, pins and slides: fun2drive is going to explain about lubricants and application techniques. We had a fortuitous photo -op in that my E93's top had developed a nasty little squeak and a bit of a catch or sticky spot when being returned to closed from the stowed (top open) position. It went to the dealership for a full lubrication. The photos were taken the day after the service visit, so we have a pretty clear understanding of the lube points as specified by BMW.
 
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#45 ·
This is a great sticky! :thumbup:

Thanks to Nordic Kat and FuntoRide.

I have been using the Gummy Pledge ever since I got my CPO 7 weeks ago. I intend to refer back to this sticky more often to get the lubrication done right.

The only small suggestion (or wishlist) is to have a zoom-out picture effect from FuntoRide's pictures ... so I know where to find his exact lubrication spots ;) But I'm sure after doing it a few times, I will locate them all.

Thanks again for this valuable contribution !
 
#47 ·
Hi, I have a question regarding my 2011 328i hard top cabrio. I purchased it 2 months a go brand new. It's space silver on black leather interior. Now, There are some spots on the black leather cover behind the rear headrests ( you see this section with top down). My question is what is the best way to clean this area? ( I hope I addressed it well, so you know what section I am talking about)
By the way it's great to join you guys in Bimmerfest, I am new so bear with me lol) cheers and happy Driving.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Congrats on the Cabrio and welcome to the 'fest!

Regarding your spots -- first of all the black "leather" deck behind the rear seats isn't really leather - it's vinyl or "pleather". So, based upon that you have many cleaning options. Are your spots gooey or sticky, i.e. could they be pollen? Are they oily and dust is sticking to them?

Personally, every time I wash the car (roughly 1X/week except in the dead of winter in Houston), I will wipe the back deck down with a damp towel. About four times a year, I'll "treat" it with 303 Aerospace Protectant. If I noticed a stain of some sort I would most likely use either my Woolite/Isopropyl alcohol/Distilled water mixture or Zaino Leather cleaner (which I love) to clean the spot then follow with the 303 mentioned above.

The Zaino leather products are wonderful - many of us swear by them. They can be ordered online at http://www.zainostore.com/

Good luck and Happy Plein Aire Motoring.
 
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#49 ·
retrac hardtop

Hey kat

Took my car in today for the hardtop catching on the passenger side latch, unfortunatley they were not able to get the hardtop to do the same thing therefore they could not detect what is wrong.They said they looked for tsb on the problem but could not find anything in their computer, I believe you said something about being a hinge in a cowl ?

Thanks Kat

P.g.waterman
 
#52 ·
Hey kat

Took my car in today for the hardtop catching on the passenger side latch, unfortunatley they were not able to get the hardtop to do the same thing therefore they could not detect what is wrong.They said they looked for tsb on the problem but could not find anything in their computer, I believe you said something about being a hinge in a cowl ?

Thanks Kat

P.g.waterman
I don't know if this will help, but I hope so. Here is the invoice for the warranty work that was done to rectify my "sticky top" issue. My SA got promoted to Service Manager, but I still use him as a front line especially with top related issues and he is the person who tagged this as a TSB issue.

In the meantime I'll try to find the thread I started when I had this issue as it may have some pertinent information.
 

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#50 ·
Nordic-Kat : You are absolutely great . I am happy to get to know you . Thanks a lot regarding the info on cleaning the leather . First of all I am absolutely loving my new 328i cabrio. Yes I know my engine is not turbo but the silky inline 3 liter 6 is smooth and pulls when needed plus I can always go a reverse with paddle shifters if needed for a highway pass or ...
As for The stains are not sticky , they are White hollow circles on the surface close to the back rests. I think they are water stains that stayed there for long and now combined with dust and penetrated to lower layers.I could not completely get rid of them by moist towel. I will try the leather cleaner that you mentioned and let you know how it works.
Kat : what's your BMW?
 
#51 ·
They do sound like water stains. I've seen these before. Try simple first, which would be a little household white vinegar on a saturated cotton ball, chased by some fresh water. If that doesn't do the trick, try a mix of 80% distilled water, 15% isopropyl alcohol, 5% Woolite (by volume). Use a gentle brush like an old discarded toothbrush to work it into the stain, follow by some fresh distilled water to rinse off the soap, etc.

Regarding your question? My BMW is plainly described in "Mein Auto". ;)
 
#54 ·
At what point did you start lubrication on the top? I am picking up a 2012 328i convertible at the end of the week (It's currently at the port and waiting for transport to the dealer), or since it will be under warranty is this something to even consider doing?

It's officially my husbands car, but just like the 5er we will both share it.
 
#55 ·
Congrats on the new cabrio!

I started my seal lubrication from the beginning. I wish I would have known as much as I have learned regarding the joint lubrication from the very beginning as well. I had my first "sticky top" issue about a year ago - roughly 18 months into ownership. My 2009 E93 is still under warranty but I would much rather deal with these issues myself than deal with the stress of taking it to the dealership. More importantly, it is very disconcerting when you are out on a joyride and things start to act 'funny'. Better to be proactive with regard to seal maintenance and joint lubrication so you can enjoy your cabrio to its fullest.

The E93s are a little more "high-maintenance", but the rewards are well worth the effort.
 
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#56 · (Edited)
Update on some lubrication points.

My top was making a louder-than-normal "unlatching" sound when it first opened from the closed position (right after the windows break seal and start to go down).

From inside, I was able to tell it was coming from the drivers side, almost right over my head and to the left. I then closed the top, and opened it from the outside using the key. I was able to isolate the new/louder "ratchet-y" sound as coming from the middle of the front panel, on the edge.

Allowing the top to open far enough to see what's going on, I noticed cam-type fasteners that hold the roof panels together when they are closed (pins, kind of like the ones in the photos, but larger. There is a photo of one of the recepticles for this size pin in the next-to-last photo, but the ones I found all mount horizontally between the flat top panels). Watching the top a couple times, I could tell the sound was from the cam/pin combination (I think that's what to call it - a pin-like structure with a head that fits into a socket, which closes around it and pulls tight). So I got the Wurth HH-K spray out, and very lightly sprayed the pin (definitely use a catch rag, as the pin is kind of out in the open) and then inside the recepticle for the pin. Worked the top a couple times, and *poof*, the new/louder ratching sound was gone.

So I opened it back up to the partial position, and went around and located all these (one on each side of each panel) that hold the roof pieces together when it's closed, and lubricated them the same way.

Top is more quiet than it was :D

Off-topic: the location, mounting technique, and size of those pins almost makes me think the roof panels, once hooked together and to the window piece and anchored to the A-pillar and trunk deck, are more solid than a single piece of steel would be - kind of like when you join 2 pieces of wood with dowels, the week spot isn't the joint anymore. Those things are solid, and pull down extremely tightly. I also had never noticed how thick the panels actually are. I'd love to know how the retractable hardtop compares in crush tests against a coupe roof, just for peace of mind....
 
#57 · (Edited)
Many thanks to Nordic Kat and Fun2Drive for the guide. I followed the instructions and applied Krytox 205 grease to all the seals (even door seals and the seals in the trunk), and the rubber feels significantly more compliant. Apparently, the rubber seals were never lubricated at the factory or dealership.

For those who are curious, lubricating all the seals in the car used up about half of the 2 oz tube, so about 1 oz altogether, even though I probably used more than is necessary. Doing the top seals alone would have required about 0.5 oz.

A 2 oz Krytox 205 tube goes for about USD 60 at Amazon.com, so it costs about USD 30 to treat the entire car, or about USD 15 to treat the top seals.

After reading more about the lubricant, there is another version in the form of oil instead of grease, Krytox 105, available as well. It seems to be the official VW recommended lubricant for the top seals in their Eos cabriolet.

There is plenty of information about Krytox in this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3087297

Does anyone have any experience with the oil formula? Is there a reason why grease is recommended in this guide?
 
#59 ·
Hi Kat,
First of all the vinegar solution with warm water used with a soft,clean towel completely cleaned the stains on the plastic panel at the back, so thanks.
Now I have a problem with the Automatic climate Control. According to the owners manual, once you program it to certain temperature, the cooling function starts also automatically.
I set the temperature on 19 degree C ( that's metric ) and the outside temperature was more. Then I started driving and for more than 20 minutes, the cooling function did not start automatically. I almost started to sweat but wanted to test the system so waited longer but still the cooling function little green light with the little snow drop sign stayed off. Finally, I gave up and turned it on manually. Is this a malfunction or do we always should turn the cooling function on/off manually?
 
#60 ·
Now I have a problem with the Automatic climate Control. According to the owners manual, once you program it to certain temperature, the cooling function starts also automatically.
I set the temperature on 19 degree C ( that's metric ) and the outside temperature was more. Then I started driving and for more than 20 minutes, the cooling function did not start automatically. I almost started to sweat but wanted to test the system so waited longer but still the cooling function little green light with the little snow drop sign stayed off. Finally, I gave up and turned it on manually. Is this a malfunction or do we always should turn the cooling function on/off manually?
If you manually turned the A/C off ('snowflake' switch light off) it will not turn back on automatically regardless of what temp you have set. You need to turn it on (green light on) and then press auto. It will maintain your desired temp whether that requires cooling or heating.
 
#64 ·
I wanted to share my experience on my 328icv roof squeak issue here in Denver. I took a printout (and a pdf on a geek stick) of this sticky to my service department last week and made an appointment for yesterday to have the roof "serviced". When I arrived I was told that their technicians had read over your procedure and could do the job as described for 3 hours labor, which would not be under warranty. I am still under the Extended Service plan I bought (6 years, 100,000 miles) from the dealer in Phoenix (BMW North Scottsdale) when I bought the car. but apparently no roof services fall under that warranty.
They said, after looking over the car, that they needed to perform a "Microswitch adjustment under the driver's side Cowl / A Pillar cover, as per BMW 'SIB 5 4 12 07'". That service was performed for $233, again, not under warranty.. I approved them doing that service, but I will do the work in your sticky myself, as it apparently won't void any warranty. So that is what happened to me and my car, I look forward to hearing other stories.
 
#65 ·
Jim,

Thanks for poisting this data point as it certainly gives us alll a little bit of reference what the dealerships value this basic maintenance at.

I do find it mildly amusing that a dealership in a major metropolitan area needed to use the sticky as a point of reference for this type of service.
 
#66 ·
Hmm. I wonder if I have the same problem as Jim above. My beloved E93 has developed a rattle on top drivers side. I may be wrong but I think it occurred after I jolted the car while driving over one of New York's finest road potholes. I can't be sure. It just seems like it happened after that incident. Initially it bathed the seals with gummy pledge which suppressed the rattle for a while but it has returned. Sounds like a window rattling between two metal grooves...
I tried poking around that area when I partially opened the roof but I can't pinpoint the problem. I wish there was a screw to adjust or something - but that will be all to easy :)
Since I am still under the CPO warranty for another 4 years I will take it to the dealer. I am just afraid they won't be able to replicate the rattle and leave it unfixed. We'll see.
 
#68 · (Edited)
Kat,

I lubed my top last night following this post. I was wondering though, there are many more hinge points and and pivot points than is mentioned here. Some of those include the two hooks that grab the window frame in front and the big hook that pulls the top tight at the top seam. There are other hinges in the system such as the ones that connect to the window section that were not mentioned. Do your sources say that we should not lube those? They look very similar in construction to the other hinges that were mentioned in this article. :confused:
 
#69 ·
The other hinges should be lubed as well. However the latches (hooks as you call them) should not be the pivots should be. The linkages you refer to are mostly located under the trunk area when the truck as pivoted aft to allow the top to fold.
All linkages should be lubed. Wurth if it is possible to get it in there is the best lubricant for the job because it goes in liquid and turns into a sticky grease which means it will stay for a long time. The best BMW dealership use that product...
 
#71 · (Edited)
I also noticed that although one of the photos showed the latch posts and the alignment post holes in the front window frame and mentioned that this would be covered later, it wasn't. Is this for update no 5? I put some lithium grease on the post and HHK-S on the latch posts. Even though they are a little hard to get to, do you suggest the pivot point for the hook/cams/latch that are in the front roof section fore and aft be lubed with HHK-S, I am assuming so.
 
#72 ·
Yes and I think it is overkill but this is a thread for keeping this top enduring as long as we own the convertible. Realistically it need not be done but I have done it as added insurance. Wurth is the best product for that application but the other two work well too but don't last as long especially WD-40. All of my convertible BMWs back to my E36's have the same type of latch and this is easy to do so why not. I have never incurred a system failure on my E36 convertibles because I am guessing that over maintaining it helped.
I just sold my M3 convertible 98 model with 284K miles and the new owner is very happy with a fully functioning top.
Hope this help...
 
#73 ·
First of all, great info Kat. Nicely done.
I've been wanting to do this for the last couple of years. Finally got tired of putting it off and got to it this afternoon. Like Submariner, I gave it a liberal app of the Gummipflege and let it soak in. Did the roof, doors, trunk--everything. Took me about 3 hours and will stay on top of it from here on.
Plan to do the lube tomorrow. Everything looks great and I feel better for having done it.
 
#74 ·
Hi Kat & fun2drive,

My E93 is only 6 weeks old and initial problem was the clunk loud nopise when I hit a bump, took it back to dealer and they fixed that problem, since then I had the squeaky & rattle noises from front driver & rear passenger sides. The car has been in the shop three times already and they still could not resolve the noise issue.
The shop foreman said this is typical convertible problem and that really bother me, they have lub all hinges and rubbers deal and problem getting worse, the noise only came in early & late evening when weather is cold and never during day time.
Any advises to fix this problem would greatly appreciated.

Thnk you
 
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