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Engine Vibration - Is it serious?!

41K views 184 replies 25 participants last post by  kskane 
#1 ·
I have been experiencing engine vibration lately all the time when the car is not moving. When ever the car is on, I can hear the engine vibration (not running, vibration) and if I put my hand on the dash, I can feel the vibration. I opened the hood, and everything seems to sound normal. Any ideas or suggestion where to look or what to fix? I recently changed the oil and oil levels are fine, no leaks apart from a minor leak on the sump.

Vehicle details - 2004 E60 525i M54 with Auto trans.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
 
#89 ·
Thanks grimma, So I am wondering, why would BMW document to install lower Hz absorber to fix the issue with N52's?

BTW, have you checked your ICV while you did all the work on your car?
 
#90 ·
Further investigation update - I pulled out my ICV and it is half dead/working/on its way out. From my reading here from the good people, the ICV has three pins and should measure
PIN1 -> PIN2 = 20ohms (mine is 11)
PIN2 -> PIN3 = 20ohms (mine is 12)
PIN1 -> PIN3 = 40ohms (mine is 22)

Mine is just about half. There was dust in it, but it was not blocked, so I cleaned it. So, I am not sure if the ICV needs replacement or not? If anyone can shed some insight on this, that would help.

Now the most interesting part about the idle raise fix. After installation, I cleared out the engine adaptation and started the Car (which was still hot/normal temp), much to my surprise the Idle was dead silent solid and I checked the idle speed it was nearly 790-820rpm. But, while I was getting all excited, the idle slowly went down to 650rpm and bang the vibration was back. So, upon clearing the adaptation the vibration was gone for few minutes but once the ECU starts learning all its AI from other parts, it goes back to old issue. Definitely points to an electrical part affecting the idle or engine load. Is it ICV? I am not 100% sure, as it could be MAF.

So, for all the guys having this issue, you may want to try and clean your ICV and measure the value.
 
#91 · (Edited)
Let me share similar case of my E60 528i LCI 2007 N52K 78000km.
The SIB vibration-at-idle.pdf from beibei650 was good to me.
I got same vibration noise from steering column, dash board and floor at idling time.
My solution was two, one is to remove front pipe bracket(7 521 347) completely and another one is to change the transmission oil.
My indi mechanic said it's ok without that bracket .
At that time, my car had oil leakage from transmission oil pan.
I had suspected that the transmission mal function cause that vibration, then it move to bracket, then to steering column.
-no higher adjustment of idling speed, it might result in fuel consumption decrease.
After correct transmission oil level adjustment, the vibration was almost gone, not 100%.
PS: GA6HP19Z automatic & ZF LifeGuardFluid 6
 
#93 ·
Oh it is way to much expensive, in swiss here i can buy it for 250 CHF max. But I went to car demolition and bought one stole another one. Just for make test. I have three ICV now. Yes you can test it ,he have three pins and there is certian values he needs to give. Google it. I found it that way. Dont touch it inside with screw driver. I believe we have a really small vacuum leaks on our engines that could be found only with smoke machine. This is why I am making one. I should do some tests tomorrow. For dis i dont know . Maybe some other people would know. Some one told me that and i saw some procedure that includes dis oscilocope!? tryed to monitor your fuel trims with inpa on idle?
 
#95 · (Edited)
I already know what the pin measurement is suppose to be. If you have three ICV, then can you measure them all (appreciate if you can post your measurements) and then use the one that is the best. My readings and what it is suppose to be are below;
PIN1 -> PIN2 = 20ohms (mine is 11)
PIN2 -> PIN3 = 20ohms (mine is 12)
PIN1 -> PIN3 = 40ohms (mine is 22)

Well it is not the same vibration 32 hz and 83hz. I does not say that 83 covers 32 . It is two difrent things. It is not suposed to cover all the spectrum of vibrations. Only few frequencys around 32 hz . No? Correct me of I am wrong.
To be honest, I have clue on this one.

Only GOD or BMW knows why two different Hz vibration absorbers. As far as I am concerned, the designers of BMW have a biggest challenge at hand every day, that is, how can we make this car more complicated, lets put the most twisted mind at word to design luxury for people to drive :D

I will be a happy man when I put an end to this problem by knowing the solution. I have read so many myths and the only one that most people say works is the Idle RPM increase, which is visible to them with there eye once the problem is gone. But what does a dealer do to achieve that is not clear, and I see my RPM are now sometime sitting on 820 and most times down on 650. Seems like it is following two sets of values and chooses to do so when ever it feels like. Perhaps, it senses my mood and selects it accordingly :).
 
#96 ·
Well i tested all three. They had lets say same values 20 ohms 20 ohms 40 ohms. 0.1 ohm up or down. Tryed all three. It worked same which gives me a clue that ICV is not a problem. I think your car works 820 rpm when started because of diffrent maps then and after when it sits to 600-ish. I would check with inpa fuel trims though. Lets say you have a really small intake vacuum leak. Small enough that does not sets a fault code. Engine will always try to adapt the fact that oxygen sensor telling dme that there is more unburnt oxygen level in exhaust gases than it suposed to be. Dme will than try to correct this by correcting air/fuel mixture. Which results in slight rpm pointer diping and slight vibration while this is in progres. And to add to all of this maf which needs to give info about air temperature and air flow- all this can be tricky. Add also he fact that hoses on engine contract/expand with change of temperature a small gap can be produced where false air will enter system unseen by maf. This is why I am building my homemade smoke machine. I want to smoke my intake to see where is this problem. I will let you know when I find out anything.
 
#99 · (Edited)
Thanks grimma to confirm the three ICV's are on 20/20/40. All, I know is that if you turn the AC on or put the car in D / R and if the RPMs fluctuate downwards, then it is the ICV. Also, the ICV set points are +/- 0.2, so any more variance, the ICV is out.

Lets see how your vacuum theory goes, good luck with your home build machine :). Is it easy to make one? Also, is it possible to check for vacuum leak by spraying brake cleaning fluid?
 
#100 ·
I noticed one more thing with this vibration, that is increases if I turn the steering when the car is stopped. Not sure if it is related to power steering pump now ......

Any more people out there with this issue and anyone has a fix?
 
#102 · (Edited)
I found out recentlly I have oil puddle on my valve cover gasket. It is on right side of engine where exhaust pipes goes and oxygen senors. This gives me to think that my crankcase ventilation pressures are not OK. And I have replaced CCV and 4 hoses 10000 km ago (11 months). The problem is I have found gunk in my dipstick. This gunk had blocked the passage in the dipstick guide tube ankle where is connected to CCV bottom. This gave me an idea. I will go to some junkyard and try to find me another dipstick guide tube. Then I want to cut it and make this hole in CCV hose ankle bigger(widder). Also i want to delete dipstick. No dipstick. Direct connection between: CCV bottom - CCV bottom hose - "what's left from a dipstick guide tube - oil pan. Pay attention that this engine (M54) have problem on short drives, ( exatcly what I do), and when you turn it off ,moisture enters the system and condesates inside your hoses CCV system etc. Which leads to blocking a dipstick guide tube in her ankle - which is so narrow inside and so easy blocked. It is obvious that CCV system cannot operate any more normally. There is pressure which builds up in cranckase and first to blow is valve cover gasket. I think I read somewhere that crankcase have air pasages inside of engine to area where camshafts are etc. Correct me if I am wrong.

So this could lead to our engines not humming like they should on idle. all this makes me to decide: delete dipstick and make direct passage to crankcase. My car is E60 with M54 and once he gave me a message on screen in cabin that I need to put one liter of oil. So this is the way I can know if I am missing oil or not. This is why I want to delete this oil dipstick from my system. Also I have a plan to reduce my oil maintenance on 7k km. And of course I keep my dipstick and original dipstick tube in my cellar if I decide for reversal.

Can any one shere with me opinions on this subject, or I am just going crazy with M54 engine?
 
#103 ·
...Can any one shere with me opinions on this subject, or I am just going crazy with M54 engine?
Hey buddy, good to see you are trying to revive your engine. I am not sure about the dipstick delete idea, but yes you are right about the short trips and reducing the change interval to 7K would be nice. I had the same problem of short trips and bit of sludge build up in my M54, and I went down to 3K intervals with good oil and over the past 20K's, I have done 6 oil change in short interval and took out fair amount of sludge and I can feel the engine runs much smoother than before.

Currently, the only issues I have are the engine vibration and my thermostat gasket leaking (which I have fixed twice with failure). Other than that, I like my M54 engine :), but yes, the vibration drives me :mad:
 
#104 · (Edited)
Yes , I understand your frustration! I want to find/buy an extra oil filler cap. Than I will make a hole on it and install a nipple. I have all ready ordered from e-bay a dweyr Magneholic pressure gauge to test my crankcase pressure. I want to know same values before just replaceing parts like some dumb ass - what I did before. You should fix your thermostate leak , cooling system failure can mess up your engine seriouslly. And if thermostate heater is not good you should have a code (I had). If it does not heat as it should be it can **** up your fuel consuption.

I just want to make a diffrent aproach to problem ! by researching it, not just swaping things and end up with no clue how does it fucntion.
 
#105 ·
...I just want to make a diffrent aproach to problem ! by researching it, not just swaping things and end up with no clue how does it fucntion.
+100 on that, one of the reason I have not replaced anything yet. I am thinking of increasing the RPM's via INPA, not sure if that will help or is a good idea either.

As for the thermo leak, I have replaced the thermo, and then gasket, just done seems to fix the gasket leak. I lubricated the gasket with concentrated radiator fluid, not sure if something else is needed to lubricate the gasket.
 
#106 ·
I was at car junkyard today, I had feeling I was in heaven. I found many hoses, clamps, stuff, 10 different BMW dipstick guide tubes but not for M54 or M52. Hell. I will probably buy a new from dealer. However when I arrived at home delivery guy passed by and brought me a http://foxwelltech.com/index.html NT100 product. A data logger for OBD cars. I installed my data logger and there a some interesting data he found. Check some photos I captured:
 
#110 · (Edited)
Check this Short Term fuel trims , at one moment it goes to +10. I cannot upload all because this moves in milliseconds it is like a little video. Is this any good?

Text Line Font Number Design


and here is -7 ? can anyone explain this? I think I Have some vacuum leak? data is just crazy. going up down zero... no logic for me. Can someone explain what is it? :dunno:

Text Line Font Number Design
 
#111 · (Edited)
Check this Short Term fuel trims , at one moment it goes to +10. I cannot upload all because this moves in milliseconds it is like a little video. Is this any good?

View attachment 395424

and here is -7 ? can anyone explain this? I think I Have some vacuum leak? data is just crazy. going up down zero... no logic for me. Can someone explain what is it? :dunno:

View attachment 395425
Thanks for sharing the data and images grimma. I hope someone here knows the tools you bought. I have the INPA and DIS, and I increased my Idle to 820 from 660 last night (at least I think I did that :)). So, I will be checking over the next week or two and see if that helps the vibration and does not have any negative impact on my fuel KPL aka MPG.
 
#112 ·
How did you increased idle ? Does it hold 820 rpm all the time? Even if you shut down engine and restart? Was it in INPA? or DIS?

I took all apart today , ICV throttle body CCV , all hoses. Clean them, checked them. I have opened CVV for check the digaram inside . It was intact. Dipstick tube I checked with air compressor. Interesting thing - When you look at the bottom of dipstick guide tube, inner "tube" is for dipstick and little "outer" tube or passages are for CCV hose to dipstick guide tube nipple. Which makes this CCV system easy to block with gunk and S H I T. I am seriously considering to put one tube direct CCV hose to oil pan. With some proper diameter. like this no gunk condensation my A S S can block the system and cause problems. And I need to do a decent smoke machine before I loose my nerves.

kskane keep us informed of your idle increase - effects etc, please.
 
#113 ·
How did you increased idle ? Does it hold 820 rpm all the time? Even if you shut down engine and restart? Was it in INPA? or DIS?

I took all apart today , ICV throttle body CCV , all hoses. Clean them, checked them. I have opened CVV for check the digaram inside . It was intact. Dipstick tube I checked with air compressor. Interesting thing - When you look at the bottom of dipstick guide tube, inner "tube" is for dipstick and little "outer" tube or passages are for CCV hose to dipstick guide tube nipple. Which makes this CCV system easy to block with gunk and S H I T. I am seriously considering to put one tube direct CCV hose to oil pan. With some proper diameter. like this no gunk condensation my A S S can block the system and cause problems. And I need to do a decent smoke machine before I loose my nerves.

kskane keep us informed of your idle increase - effects etc, please.
Hey buddy, interesting find on the "outer" tube where the CCV connect is like a nipple. I have not seen or done mine, but was wondering, is it possible to just cut the nipple section off to increase the tube diameter? Also, in order to get to the CCV, what all did you have to remove in a specific order or any pics you took might help as well.

I don't know much about smoke machine, so will have to wait until you get it sorted or someone else can help here.

As for the RPM, I used the INPA engine scripts and yesterday I went for a little drive and found that at cold start, the RPM settle down to 820 once the engine is warm, but while I was driving, at most red lights the engine would idle at same 660 rpms. So what I was suspecting could have been correct i.e. I thought I increased the RPM to 820 :). Following is the section (image) where I increased/set the RPM, not sure if that is the right section. I will be trying some other options next to see if that helps.
 

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#115 ·
Thanks schpenxel, if I recall, you had changed the RPM with AC on, was that done in ISTA? How hard is ISTA to get working compared to DIS? BTW how many K's are you on now?
 
#116 ·
listen guys I have maybe found out what it is. This DISA "adjuster", can you please remove it from your engine and do a folowing test. while in your hand put the flap against the spring and you will see a small pin hole 1/16" (should be on the side of DISA which goes to intake manifold hole). Cover it with your finger and let the flap free. If the flap stay where it is or moves litlle bit, DISA is in good shape. If it goes back in the open position your disa is culprit. Diagram is thorn apart and cannot hold any vacuum. Diaphgram inside of the DISA is leaking false air in your intake manifold. This is so small quantity that it wont set any code. But it will afect idle and low range rpm torque curve. I allready done my check and my disa is not good. I will place an order for new one today. Google this, there are few threads on this. Also Stealership cannot/wont diagnose this because there is no fault set and for them is ok. This yungsters that work there they just look what the computer will tell them, they dont have a ****ing clue whats going on with pressures in our engines. I have only one question that I dont have an answer for. What makes our DISA diaphgram faulty in the first place ? Please report your test results. Test takes only 10 minutes.
 
#117 · (Edited)
Grimma, you are on the right path, but I don't think Disa itself will cause rough idle. Anyway, I had already checked mine and DISA is working fine i.e. cover the hole after flip and the flap stays :). I have also changed my Disa O-ring (which usually is faulty as well), and I am also selling the disa O-ring all for Aussies here on ebay (search for Disa O-Ring on ebay.com.au).

Further update from me - I have tried to increase my RPMs for the second time via INPA. Will post in a weeks time or after one tank of gas how it went. In the mean time, that coolant spray is being a mystery....
 
#118 · (Edited)
Does anybody has a clue on which physical part (or combination of parts) control the Idle engine RPM on the M54 engines? From research, to me it is a combination of ICV and the MAF, but I am not sure. From this thread and all the rest you can search, this common issue of engine vibration is related to the RPMs which should be around 750-830 RPMs, and I want to find out which physical part is making it go down to 660 in my car?

Although, there is another theory of vacuum leak, which I will have to wait and see the results of Grimma's investigation.

Update - my second attempt via INPA have been successful so far, i.e. the RPMs are staying at 780-790 ish, I have a long drive tomorrow for about 200Km's so will post next week how it goes on fuel.
 
#119 · (Edited)
I am not sure which part/s would be responsible for idle regulation. But more like, there is theory (in my head) if everything is nicely sealed and all sensors work fine it should be steady smooth idle around 650-750 rpm - temperature dependent etc.

I have replaced my DISA with new one and I sealed nice that part of engine. Now I can hear engine hising at the top of Intake manifold ( I am willing to suspect it is a cap which seals port where Air temperature sensor used to be on older cars -E39).

Also this morning something starnge hapened. Before I started engine I had A/C off and started engine. I drived my self for 10 km of normal drive and when stoped at idle there was no vibration what so ever, nor idle fluctuations. It was working perfectlly. This gives me two clues.

My car works fine till temperature change does not unseal my air temperature sensor cap gasket on top of my intake manifold.

and second, tought would be : IS it possible that Air compressor unit cycle all the time due to low freon pressures in high/low pressure ports? Because if a/c compressor cycles on/off all the time or maybe inconstantlly it should make dme to calculate engine load with large oscilations though make my rpm needle flactuate . sounds logical or is it just me?

As far as I know I should test my climatisation system pressures and change that cap gasket on the top of my intake manifold!

Still didn't found any free time to do my smoke machine test. sorry for that.
 
#120 ·
Same thing happened this afternoon when I went home ! before starting my engine i have switched climatisation OFF button. Drived nicely at home and when I arrived at home engine temp hot idle was around 700 rpm needle was really calm. No vibrations . Just nice engine idleing. And than when someone say to you: it is fine they all do that! My ass! So engine woks great at idle while a/c off. Evev gear shift PRND went without slight idle flactuation. I spend many time to find this bitch! My theory is that there is something wrong with climatisation system which makes compressor cycling all the time and while doing this he messed up engine load calculation, that explains rpm needle flactuation. -add small vacuum leak and there you go.

Correct me if I am wrong! Please anyone!
 
#122 ·
Hey buddy, when you start the car from cold, the RPMs are sitting higher, 10K drive will just about bring the engine temp to normal operating temp i.e. 93C and the vibration/humming can be seen after that. Is it related to AC, I don't know, but I know for a fact that while the engine is vibrating/humming if you turn the AC on or turn the wheel to use your power steering, the humming will increase because the load is increasing.

Now, with INPA I could max increase my RPM by 120, so from 660, I was doing 780-790 for a week. I would have to admit that the vibration noise was bit less but the feeling was stronger, I mean, I could hear less but feel it more. So simply tuning the engine RPM up is not a solution for this engine vibration, something needs to be calibrated and I am putting my money on ICV+MAF, but I can't change the parts for now as they are too expensive. But if anyone with this problem on M54 and is willing to take that shot to swap out two part, then I would appreciate some feedback.

Note - both ICV and MAF deteriorate over period of time not functioning to its adequate capacity, so no fault will be thrown from what I have searched. So, only replacing it with new part is a true check, not with old parts.

Unfortunately, the problem still exists .............. anyone might have suggestions as to how to check the engine load via DIS or INPA and do any other calibration, then that might help.
 
#123 · (Edited)
Ok, i have finally performed a "poor man's smoke test". I had two leaks. One was at behind intake, clearly missing a vacuum cap(smaller hole). The other leak was at the location of my ignition coils. It was not ignition coils but a small nuts just next to them. One had even a ground wires attached to it. leak was found on the first two of them. Also i did measured my pressure at oil filler cap with magnehelic pressure gauge. I had little bit less than 5 inches of water pressure. I have fixed leak with new vacuum cap but second leak remains. What is the culprit here!? My VCG? Please help.
 
#124 ·
Ok, i have finally performed a "poor man's smoke test". I had two leaks. One was at behind intake, clearly missing a vacuum cap(smaller hole). The other leak was at the location of my ignition coils. It was not ignition coils but a small nuts just next to them. One had even a ground wires attached to it. leak was found on the first two of them. ...
Here is a picture that shows the small bolt you are referring to that holds the plastic housing for wiring harness.
 

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#128 · (Edited)
Yes the bolts next to the coils! If you have oil pudlle on it yes you have a vacuum leak. Also i need to buy a good rtv sealant for this task.OK, i will pay atention, thanks! I am also very bad with free time. So it will wait some time also. There are two intake caps at the end of intake manifold. i was missing the smaller one. The inner one.. Also that port I am planing to use for connection with my CCV nipple. I just ordered tube.
 
#129 ·
I checked my self this weekend my VCG. It had oil leaks at 4 central nuts. 11 exterior were ok. I took the four out and guess what? They did not have a rubber gromet. They had a nut and washer with rtv sealant. They just pissed oil everywhere. My mechanic did it last time and I was there and we did not see this. Where this gromets are I dont know. I bought them and Installed them. i put little bit of rtv permatex sealent kskane told me and torqued it to spec. All fine now. Also this weekend i connectet rubber hose from my CCV nipple to behind intake manifold nipple. I did the addaptations reset also with INPA. No vacuum leaks and with this hose mod engine works great. I Have noticed no more white smokes when starting from cold or idle in trafic. Will keep an eye to oil and fuel consuption.
 
#131 · (Edited)
Grimma, can you take some pics of this hose from the CCV to intake manifold nipple. Because if this mod has helped your engine vibration, then I would love to give a go, but I just can't access of see where this intake nipple is located (are you talking about changing the breather hose that goes from the CCV to the dipstick?). As for the VCG, great if you fixed yours, but VCG would not directly impact on the engine vibration, because I fixed last year and I still the vibration. Please share some pics of the pipe along with some link where you bought that pipe from.

Oh and thank you kskane for bolt torque attention, i kept this in my mind and just stoped when it was obviosly no more place to go. Thanx
Glad to help Grimma. I did not knew about the bolt torque when I was doing my VCG and accidently snapped one of the bolts off the engine body and had to wait for 4 days for the one bolt to be brought from Germany to Australia and was lucky to remove other half of the bolt from the engine body.
 
#132 · (Edited)
It is the hose from M52 engine. It goes from CCV to fuel pressure regulator. m52 and M54 share same part number CCV only CCV for M54 arrives with cap on the nipple. You take this cap away and you take that hose above mentioned ( 3.5 mm diameter rubber hose) you need 30 or 40 cm length and attach one end to CCV nipple. Other end you need to attach to rear of intake manifold. If you check intake manifold rear (LH engine side when siting in car) you will find two nipples, one bigger and one smaler. Normally they have rubber caps acting as a blind plugs. Take away smaller cap and attach your other hose end to it. Apparently one guy posted on some other forum by doing this he reduced his oil consuption due to better crankcase ventilation, also it prevents a piston rings flutter. Problem on our cars is that crankcase needs to be ventilated and vacuum source to achive this is taken after the throtlle. It is ok on idle when throtlle is closed. But when throtlle is opened there is insufficient vacuum. With moisture and short trips it clogs the dipstick hole for ccv hose, than system is inop and ccv or ccv hose blown. Crankcase pressure is bad or worse positive. Blown seals etc, etc. This is how much i understood that guy. Than I said: what the hell lets give it a try. And now After i did it it is working little better. Or it is placebo effect. However this guy claims that this mod prevents even dipstick to clog with gunk due to constant vacuum applied. He also told that hose from ccv to valve cover is not alowed to be cloged- in that case engine can have oil ingestion and hydrolock. By doing this mod I do not want to be held responsible for damage caused by possible mulfunction of this mod. Here is the link: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=691347
 
#134 ·
Thanks Grimma, keep us posted after a week or so how you think the mod has affected the idle vibration. And what about your engine RPM at idle, did that go up or down from 660 after this extra vacuum tube?
 
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