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Front brakes warped, steering wheel vibration upon braking

25K views 53 replies 24 participants last post by  dharmabmw 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

I'm having this issue with my 2008 550i since last July.
I went to my local dealer back in July 2011 to have to brakes looked at for squeeking and noise (no vibration). They ended up replacing the front pads.
Since then, after about a month or 2 of normal driving, a vibration in the steering wheel will be noticed upon braking from ~45-30 mph. Took it back to the dealer and they replace the rotors and pads. 2 month later again, same vibration. Took it back again and they checked for the hub to see if it's true and it was, so they replaced the rotor and pads again. ~2 months later, vibration is back.
My car is there now for the 3rd or 4th time and they said they cannot warranty my brakes because they see discoloration on the rotors as if it's been over heated. My driving is pretty normal (probably more on the conservative side if anything) and I do not track the car.

Has anyone encountered this situation? What can I do to convince them that this is BMW's responsibility?
 
#2 ·
Do you hose them down when they are still hot?
 
#4 ·
Well, BMW of Mountain View is refusing to warrant my brakes and is not going to fix this issue. They said that BMW will not reimburse them for this job.
They are accusing me of over heating them which in turn warping the rotors. Saying that I take turns too sharply judging from the side wall of my tires.
This is ridiculous! If a BMW 550i can't handle my normal (I would say more on the conservative side) driving that my other Nissan Sentra can, something is wrong!
Going to confront the service manager now.
I think this is a initial "bedding" issue that they do not complete with new brakes.
 
#6 ·
Do they think you are taking it to the track??? Total BS. You can call BMW NA and start a claim. Also, ask them if you can speak to their BMW rep.
 
#7 ·
Yes, or whatever my driving style is to over heat them and cause them to warp.
These are massive discs, hard to believe normal driving style or even aggresive braking can wrap these.

As an update, got my car back and bringing it back next Tues when a BMW regional factory Tech will be there to evaluate.
 
#8 · (Edited)
They said that they can tell of the over heating from the discolorization on the discs.
Brake experts, anything unusual with these?

With flash...


Without flash...


Maybe not the greatest pics. I'll try to get better one up later.
 
#10 ·
??????

If anything, BMW's rotors are known to warp. The design on BMW rotors is intentionally thin to reduce weight. That's why the recommendation is to never turn BMW rotors. There typically isn't enough material on them to do so without going below the min thickness stamped into them.

They're thin to start with and that's why they warp so easily.

I had mine replaced at 70K. Pads were fine. Rotors were warped. I had the same symptoms as the OP.
 
#11 ·
I believe there are topics discussing 'rebedding' by a member who owns an e39.

Most likely, there is no such thing as 'a warped rotor'.

Recently I had all 4 rotors and pads replaced (all OEM), then I got shaky steering wheel during braking, and guess what, the cause of that was a nail in one rear tire. After fixing the tire, shaking steering wheel went away.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I reccomend you get the front bushings checked, with my Blk 540i I had both warped rotors & bad bushings... Imagine my face going down a mountain with the shaking from the steeringwheel!

Changed the rotors/pads, good improvement, but still shaky..Changed the bushings, shaking was gone.

Same thing with my 03' right now, I shake sometimes, but the rotors are good, even my tech noted the bushings are nearing the end of their life.

Though i'm not 100% sure i can relate an E39 problem to the E60, but the concept may be the same.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the input guys.
Yes, it seems that after they have replaced the rotors/pad, it is fine until ~1k to ~2k miles (1-2 months), then the vibration in the steering wheel while braking between 45-30mph is felt gradually increasing from then on.
I currently have 46k miles on the car. Main warranty just expired Feb 13th this year and is now on CPO warranty.
When I bring it back tomorrow morning, I will mention the arm bushings and see what they say.
 
#19 ·
Silly question - when was the last time the tires were balanced? The e39 was notorious for getting wheel shake from a slightly unbalanced tire. You wouldn't feel it during normal driving but as soon as you got on the brakes, you could feel it. Certainly not trying to discount the fact your rotors may be warped but you may want to insure the easy stuff is out of the way before calling BMWNA.
 
#22 ·
It just doesn't make sense to have it related to something external to the brakes as it's perfect right after they install new rotors and pads. It's only after a 1000 miles or so where it starts to vibrate. If it were the bushings or wheel alignment/balance, would that affect the vibration in the steering wheel no matter what condition the brakes are in?
 
#20 ·
Before you purchased the car someone may have tracked it hard.
Common problem with a poor cool down lap.
 
#24 ·
Socal I have the same problem on my 535Xi. I have the third set of rotors on my car since last June. My problem is I seem to have the wrong pad rotor combination with regards to my driving style. I will agree I am harder than most when it comes to brakes. I will say that I have followed the instructions verbatim on "bedding in" the pads and it does help. My opinion is that the brake setup on my car are undersized for "spirited driving". Not sure if the 550 has larger brakes than the 535. I am currently waiting for my HPS Hawk brake pads as I know this will rid myself of brake pad deposits on my rotors. This will however cause decent amounts of brake dust and rotors that I will have to replace very frequently. Oh well, something has to give and I don't feel like spending 5K+ on a wheel and brembo brake upgrade. I have used the Hawk pads (blue) on my track car in the past and have had excellent results.

Here is a photo for viewing pleasure of the pad deposits. Notice, this didn't show up like this until I started to buff it with a disk. Before that it looked like a blue stripe on the rotor.

 
#27 ·
Well, it's back at the BMW service to have the factory tech rep Jim Morror to investigate.
I told the service advisor about looking into the bushings and he mentioned that they have already looked at all the suspension components and found nothing out of the ordinary.
I asked him about the "bedding" process and he mentioned that BMW does not do anything other than put on new rotors and pads. They also recommend the customer to not brake hard for the 1st 300 miles as well. Which I obeyed the 1st 3 times.

Steve
 
#29 ·
I had THE SAME vibrations that you describe a while back. I went as far as installing new brake rotors/pads and still the vibration was there. Took it back to Stevens Creek BMW and they told me my rotors are warpped, literally 1 months after I installed the new ones ! So i decide to take it to Fremont BMW and they diagnose for me. Turns out is was my Lower right control arm (it was bent) that was causing the vibration when braking. $900 Later and a new control arm, and no more vibration.
 
#30 ·
Well, here's the latest.
The SA called me yesterday and said that Jim Morror (BMW Factory Tech Rep) said that he's seen this issue before and it was caused by the right/passenger hub.
They are going to replace both front rotors/pad and right/passenger's hub. Don't know the details on why that hub or what was wrong with it yet. Will ask when my car is completed and I pick it up.
Personally, I don't think it's anything outside of the brakes. I think it's just to fact of the new brakes not going through the "break-in"/"bedding" process correctly or even executed before I pick it up. But this is "BMW's process".
 
#31 ·
To the OP: When you had your wheels powder coated, did they cover the inside area of the wheel where it contacts the wheel hub? If so, remove any paint/powder coat on this contact point - it's preventing the rotor/hub from transferring heat to the wheel to dissapate.

I had a similar issue this past summer, going through 3 sets of rotors in 3 months and going crazy trying to figure out the cause, until we narrowed it down to my OEM front wheels which had been refinished over the prior winter... the wheel shop had painted over the contact surface resulting in both a really tight fit to the hub, and also preventing adequate heat dissapation from the rotors to the wheel. The SA at the dealer carefully removed the paint from the contact surface and no issues since (it's been over 6 months).

May not be your issue, but worth a look.
 
#32 ·
To the OP: When you had your wheels powder coated, did they cover the inside area of the wheel where it contacts the wheel hub? If so, remove any paint/powder coat on this contact point - it's preventing the rotor/hub from transferring heat to the wheel to dissapate.

I had a similar issue this past summer, going through 3 sets of rotors in 3 months and going crazy trying to figure out the cause, until we narrowed it down to my OEM front wheels which had been refinished over the prior winter... the wheel shop had painted over the contact surface resulting in both a really tight fit to the hub, and also preventing adequate heat dissapation from the rotors to the wheel. The SA at the dealer carefully removed the paint from the contact surface and no issues since (it's been over 6 months).

May not be your issue, but worth a look.
Interesting conclusion. Will look into this and check the wheels.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Got my car back today.
They basically installed new rotors, pads and hubs on both front sides. BMW factory regional rep mentioned that some e60's had experienced this same issue and it was the hubs that was not rotating true.
We'll see if this fixes it.
 
#35 · (Edited)
My suggestion is to replace Calipers and Brake hoses. If the caliper doesn't release the pressure fast enough (sticking) so the pads stay in contact with the rotors longer, it could cause more heat and after awhile overheat and warp the rotors. Looking the the color of your rotors the blueish red tint on them is an indication they are overheating. Also replace the brake hoses (if your car has them) that's goes to calipers. Inside the brake hose is a valve, if it gets stuck the pressure doesn't release and same effect can occur.
 
#38 ·
So guys here's my update for what it's worth. I continue to have my pad deposit problem when running OEM pads and anything less than a race pad. I don't run a race pad all the time because the car sounds like a garbage truck from the brake noise.

Here's my process:

Run a high performance street pad until I can't stand the vibrations any longer (usually about 4-5 weeks). I then install my hawk blue pads to "clean the pad deposits" off. I go down the road and make some aggressive stops, similar to bedding in pads. Then install the street pads back on. I then Do it all over again after 4-5 weeks.

Until someone is selling their used brembos.....
 
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