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X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

130K views 850 replies 74 participants last post by  Pierre Louis 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

what are your thoughts on this match-up? I'm convinced I'm going to buy a Diesel car, now it's a matter of deciding between the 2. I never thought I'd see these 2 cars priced so closely, but hey, thanks Porsche!

Let me know your thoughts,
Dan.
 
#110 ·
I just got back from Alaska, where I drove a US-spec Cayenne Diesel all over the place for two days. More importantly, I drove my '12 X5 xDrive35d to the airport so it was a back-to-back driving experience!

In a nutshell:

BMW is quicker
BMW is faster
BMW is quieter on the road
BMW is less expensive
BMW is roomier
BMW has a better AWD system

Porsche is more agile
Porsche is safer
Porsche is more fuel efficient
Porsche has a longer range
Porsche doesn't sound like a diesel

While I've driven the Euro-spec Cayenne Diesel extensively in Germany, the cars are actually quite different (both engine and transmission tuning). I immediately noticed the difference.

I've got to write the damn story, so I don't have time for a detailed post (ask questions). :thumbup:

- Mike
 
#113 ·
Mike, what are the biggest differences between the EU spec and US spec Cayenne TDIs? I understand that the US one makes slightly less power due to the AdBlue system, but is it really that much different?

I've driven the T3 Touareg TDI extensively, so I expect it to feel very similar, in terms of power delivery, etc.
 
#116 ·
The Euro-spec model has the Gen-I engine, while the US-spec model is running the new Gen-II 3.0-liter turbodiesel. The Euro model was geared to pull hard up to nearly 150 mph, but more lethargic around town. The US-spec model was quick around town (thanks to the 8AT), but much slower at speed. The X5 feels significantly more powerful on the highway... and above 40 mph.

- Mike
 
#119 ·
One picture... then I have to write the story!

- Mike
 

Attachments

#122 ·
Hey, looking out my front window... Volkswagen just dropped at '13 Touareg Hybrid in my driveway for a week (shares the powertrain with the Cayenne Hybrid)! This should be interesting. :thumbup:

- Mike
 
#127 ·
I am not sure about PC, but AUDI in Europe offers e.g. 3.0 TDI 245PS and 3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS. From the practical / financial perspective, I do not think there are a lot of differences between the two engines (apart from adblue system). I also think that the same engine 3.0 TDI clean diesel will be available in AUDI in the US.

Is PC diesel (EURO or US spec) different from AUDI 3.0 TDI / 3.0 TDI clean diesel? I do not think so, but will be glad to hear this from knowledgeable person. I was hoping that AUDI will bring A6 version again to the US. Then I would buy diesel version. Probably won’t happen.

Could somebody confirm whether PC diesel is single turbo? I think it is and it explains observations of test drivers that X5d is faster, etc.
 
#128 ·
I am not sure about PC, but AUDI in Europe offers e.g. 3.0 TDI 245PS and 3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS. From the practical / financial perspective, I do not think there are a lot of differences between the two engines (apart from adblue system). I also think that the same engine 3.0 TDI clean diesel will be available in AUDI in the US.

Is PC diesel (EURO or US spec) different from AUDI 3.0 TDI / 3.0 TDI clean diesel? I do not think so, but will be glad to hear this from knowledgeable person. I was hoping that AUDI will bring A6 version again to the US. Then I would buy diesel version. Probably won't happen.

Could somebody confirm whether PC diesel is single turbo? I think it is and it explains observations of test drivers that X5d is faster, etc.
Porsche uses a single variable-vane turbo 3.0-liter V6. The engine is Gen II, in its first application. Both VW and Audi will get it for the 2013 model year - Porsche gets a head start. Basically, it is cleaner burning and more efficient. No additional power.

- Mike
 
#130 ·
Right from my press material:

"The new-for-2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel’s powerful, yet fuel-efficient 3.0-liter V6
turbo diesel engine delivers 240-hp and 406 lb.-ft. of torque, available from as low as
1,750 rpm. That massive twisting force results in a strong 0-60 mph acceleration of
just 7.2 seconds and a top track speed of 135 mph. Cayenne Diesel's performance is complemented by best in class fuel economy rating of 19-mpg city / 29-mpg highway
/ 23-mpg combined on its U.S. EPA label. The new Cayenne Diesel will be priced
from $55,750 plus a $975 destination charge.
In addition to power and economy, the Cayenne Diesel can travel up to 740 miles on
a single tank of fuel, is built to meet strict U.S. Tier 2 Bin 5 emission standards, and
includes selective catalytic reduction (SCR) technology. The SCR system is
comprised of an AdBlue® tank located in the car’s spare-wheel well, a heating system
for the tank and the lines which carry the AdBlue, an injection valve for AdBlue fluid
and a selective catalytic reduction converter which aid in the reduction of NOx
(oxides of nitrogen) emissions.
Highlights of the 3.0-liter V6 diesel engine in the Cayenne Diesel include highpressure
common rail fuel injection and a variable vane geometry turbocharger,
which give the engine improved response to driver inputs and enhanced fuel
economy when compared to more conventional diesel engine technologies. In
addition, the engine block is constructed from compacted graphite iron (CGI), which
has many of the strength properties of a conventional iron block but with a significant
reduction in mass, approximately 55 lbs. (25 kilograms).
The Cayenne Diesel is mated to an 8-speed Tiptronic S transmission, without the
Auto Stop/Start function available on other Cayenne variants. As with the Cayenne S
Hybrid, the Cayenne Diesel includes Porsche Traction Management (PTM), which
features permanent all- wheel drive.
Cayenne Diesel comes standard with a mechanical safeguard in the fuel tank filler
neck with a special locking mechanism that may only be opened by the larger
diameter diesel fuel pump nozzle, ensuring only the correct diesel fuel is added
during refueling."
 
#131 ·
3.0 TDI clean diesel 245PS is available right now in Audi. I am not sure whether it is 2013 model. Maybe PC EURO spec drives on old diesel, but Audi rather not
 
#132 ·
Not directly accusing Porsche/VW/Audi of confusing things... but it sure is confusing. ;)

- Mike
 
#140 ·
thank you very much i am too was very anxious about PC diesel,but looks like no rush wwith that and i can peacefully waite for 2014 X5
 
#141 ·
PC Diesel

I plan to buy a 2014 X5 when they are available to order. In the mean time order a 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel with minimal options say $55750...plus conv. Pkg $5640. Order for $500. over invoice wait 3 months .... Pay $56154. sell it for $ $55000. as soon as you can order a 2014 X5... Enjoy trying a Porch for 11 months for only $1154.00....Simple ,and it can be done... License it in Montana or Oregon,no sales tax...... I am sure the Porsche Cayenne Diesel will be scarce...
 
#142 · (Edited)
I plan to buy a 2014 X5 when they are available to order. In the mean time order a 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel with minimal options say $55750...plus conv. Pkg $5640. Order for $500. over invoice wait 3 months .... Pay $56154. sell it for $ $55000. as soon as you can order a 2014 X5... Enjoy trying a Porch for 11 months for only $1154.00....Simple ,and it can be done... License it in Montana or Oregon,no sales tax...... I am sure the Porsche Cayenne Diesel will be scarce...
In just the two Porsche dealerships I looked at here in town they have had at least 8 diesels already. I am not sure if it will be all that scarce or not. I wish I could get one of them to let me order any of their cars $500 over invoice but I am just not that good apparently because I can't get them to budge every time I have tried on something.
 
#147 ·
It wasn't a very... ahem... positive review of the Lexus. ;)

I didn't put any Alaska tales in the story, but the place was amazing. I am heading over to the Mercedes dealer today to drive the ML350 BlueTEC for a comparison.

- Mike
 
#148 ·
Just went over to my local Porsche dealer that had two. One was sold and taken home last night and the other one they had on the lot ($73k sticker!!) was also sold this morning. Strict MSRP, no bargaining. They're getting a couple more soon.

I did sit in it. Loved the leather covered dash and the interior. It's def. smaller than the X5d though. Price is ridiculous.
 
#149 ·
The one near hear had a few for around $10k less than that but of course that is $10k less options. Personally I'd be fine with one with next to no options but I am not picky on a lot of things for vehicles. The one I drove had lane assist, navigation, Bose, Xenons, and not sure what else for options.
 
#155 ·
Ooops. I meant to say Q7 TDI - sorry about that! I knew I was driving the Cayenne Diesel, so I asked for a bunch of this category (diesel and hybrid) for comparison. I am not really liking the VW Touareg Hybrid. Only averaging 18 mpg (my X5 35d does better) and the brakes, with regenerative crap going on, are very unnatural.

Just about done with my Cayenne Diesel story. Thinking I like the X5 better (give up a few HWY mpg for better passing power). :angel:

- Mike
 
#159 · (Edited)
Thanks for sharing Mike. Have you had any extended seat time in the Cayenne V6? If so, how would you rate it compared to the Diesel? I've driven the V6 a couple of times and really like it. To be said we are going to trade a 2001 Pathfinder with 240hp that never felt too slow or weak for our SUV use so the NA 300hp in the Cayenne is already a trade up. It will be my wife's commuter and our adventure ride, it needs to be reliable.

We'll probably wait to make the final decision until the F-series X5 is uncovered but from what I've experienced ( owned an F10 ) and heard about the other F-series vehicles I'm pretty sure we'll pass. The reliability just isn't there and the classic BMW steering feel is ruined.
 
#160 ·
The Cayenne Diesel is my choice over the gasoline-fed V6... if you can swing it. Much better fuel economy, and the oil-burner is quicker (you can't overlook the torque). Both are VW engines.

We likely won't see the next-gen X5 until spring.

- Mike
 
#165 ·
So I just built a Cayenne with the same toys as my X5 and the Cayenne even lacks some important ones like ConnectedDrive, BMW Assist, Side/Top View Cameras, etc



Cayenne Diesel $55,750
Packages
Premium Package Plus PU3
$10,180
Exterior Colors
Dark Blue Metallic N4 $790
Interior Colors
Standard Interior in Black MA
$0
Exterior
Panorama Roof System 3FU
$1,850
Exterior Package in High-gloss Black QJ4
$150
Roof Rails and Moldings with Black Finish 3S5
$820
Performance
Power Steering Plus 1N3
$0
Wheels
18" Cayenne Wheel C1J
$0
Interior
Extended LED comfort lighting package AEH
$845
Heated Three-spoke Multifunction Steering Wheel 2ZH
$0
14-way Power Seats with Memory Package PE5
$0
Audio and Communications
Compass Display on Instrument Panel QR1
$270
Six-Disc Changer 7D7
$650
BOSE(R) Surround Sound System 9VL
$1,690
Telephone Module 9W1
$265
Voice Control QH1
$595
SiriusXM(R) Satellite Radio + HD Radio(R) Receiver QV8
$1,120
Destination Charge:
Destination Charge: $975
Total Price* $75,950
*Option availability and pricing subject to change. Please consult your local dealer for the most up-to-date information.
 
#166 · (Edited)
I just want a reliable luxury SUV that feels good to drive and for me the Cayenne is the only game in town. BMW used to own this segment but lately they lost their way. I love and believe in them and I'm sure they'll be back with a vengeance but the F-series so far is a dark episode which is neither reliable or good to drive, just luxurious. Kind of like a Jaguar. Yes I could get an E70, it's great but the Cayenne is better IMO. Power or mpg is not really interesting to me as long as it's sufficient which is pretty much covered by all Cayenne and X5 models on sale today in the US. Porsche's are expensive but for us as a family we have agreed that they are worth it when BMW fails to deliver.
 
#172 ·
+1! With all the logging trucks in WA (and OR) you would have to look long and hard for a place that DIDN'T have diesel on offer. Mike, I was surprised to see you could lock up the diff on the new Cayenne. I thought that went away with the new model and was no longer available here (but was in Europe). Unless of course for the press junket in Alaska Porsche realized that a locker was required to avoid embarrasing moments (in tidal riverbeds). Of course they left the summer rubber on -- so I guess they didn't think of everything.:angel:
 
#181 · (Edited)
I'd like to give my $.02 here. As a long time and former Porsche Club of America member, I beg to differ about the Porsche Cayenne and perhaps about other Porsches.

My biggest gripe is the new Porsche interiors. They look awful. Their coordinated colors look straight out of the 1970's Ford catalog, with reflective dashboards, glitzy trim around the consoles and vents, coordinated door panels and steering wheels, etc. Nauseating.

Since the airbag models came out, Porsche has struggled to make a sporty looking steering wheel, finally coming out with a good looking one with the sport steering wheel option in 2005. Their normal one, something that looks like a shield from a cartoon version of transformer origin, is ugly as sin. They have been changing it ever since, with the current standard heavy looking thing at least with a round center but still without the safety oriented steering wheel controls standard on US BMW's. Even the currently optional "sport" steering wheel Porsche offers is gaudy, not to mention their awful wood rimmed ones!

Lets not talk about the ever-talked about and bragged about "most profitable car-maker" status Porsche enjoys, the way they treat dealers withholding inventory, how every Boxster comes in with unnecessary expensive cosmetic options etc. At the last PCA Parade, the company had the gall to parade a Carrera Targa that cost $150,000 - with $50,000 in cosmetic options!! That, for bragging rights?? Performance my eye, this is a boutique car!

Finally, the Cayenne has never been a looker. Not that I'm much of an X5 fan, but I understand the utility of an SUV. The PC looks like a beached whale and tries to imitate a 911 in looks. Sorry, but they should have made it look better than that. No doubt their "no diesel" pledge was stupid since diesel is a natural for a vehicle that otherwise could do the same thing as a sedan or wagon that have 1,000 lbs less with the diesel having more power and efficiency - they finally see the light.

Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes. BMW may not have it all, but they certainly have my vote. Mercedes looks a bit better to me than Porsche any day.

PL
 
#183 ·
I only have this to add which is probably not apples to oranges, when I was going thru the lemon ( excuse me, courtesy repurchase ) of my 2010 Audi Q5, the dealership which was also a Porsche dealership had me in a 2010 Cayenne ( first generation ) I was excited initially to have this a loaner but after driving it for 30 days I was like " so what " what's the big deal ? I will admit I do like the interior of the 2nd generation Cayenne but I have not had any drive time in one after all the demographic for Porsche I believe is income of 400 k and up which also explains the rumors of a 2000 dollar 20k maintenance visit.
 
#195 ·
I only have this to add which is probably not apples to oranges, when I was going thru the lemon ( excuse me, courtesy repurchase ) of my 2010 Audi Q5, the dealership which was also a Porsche dealership had me in a 2010 Cayenne ( first generation ) I was excited initially to have this a loaner but after driving it for 30 days I was like " so what " what's the big deal ? I will admit I do like the interior of the 2nd generation Cayenne but I have not had any drive time in one after all the demographic for Porsche I believe is income of 400 k and up which also explains the rumors of a 2000 dollar 20k maintenance visit.
Yeah,, it's one of the better things about BMW with included maintenance. However, MB Blutec's also have super expensive maintenance also, so we can't just blame Porsche.

I wonder if you can prepay maintenance, like you can with AudiCare.
 
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