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2007-2010 X3 Automatic Transmission Problem Master Thread!

792K views 2K replies 282 participants last post by  hoppydidit 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm making this a sticky and merging all new AT threads from the main page into this one (I can not move older threads into this one because it will insert the previous messages above/before this post).

Thanks to AzNMpower32 for this summary:

The problem: A portion of 2007-08 X3s built between 9/2006 and 11/2007 my have possible faulty transmission software programming. This affects X3s equipped with the 6-speed automatic gearbox. The gearbox may fail to respond to throttle inputs, fail to engage a lower gear, or downshift very roughly in normal Drive mode. The problem is not exhibited in manual mode. Cold temperatures may or may not make the shifting quality worse.

The BMW fix There is a software update, this is the latest release as of 10/07

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B24 08 07 dated May 2007.

SUBJECT
GM6 - Various Transmission and Driveability Complaints MODEL
E83 (X3) with 6L45R (GM6) automatic transmission produced from 8/2006 up to 10/2007

SITUATION
The customer may complain of transmission shift quality or driveability issues, as described in the situations below:

1. There is a delay in throttle response through the 1-2 upshift when accelerating from a stop.
2. There is a lack of power or hesitation when reapplying throttle, during either a 4-3 or 3-2 tip-in downshift. This may occur after slowing with a closed throttle.
3. Harsh downshifts when slowing on a roadway with a rising gradient (EGS is in a hill program).

CAUSES
EGS software calibration DME software calibration

CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, reprogram the EGS using only Progman V27.02.00 or higher. The latest X3 EGS software may be identified as: 0489RZ0RS450 R0FN10 using the following diagnosis path:

Control-module functions / EGS transmission control Diagnosis requests / Status, data reference

It is important that the DME is also at the latest software level. Refer to SI B12 17 07 for more information concerning the DME software identification and improvements.

DO NOT perform the transmission adaptation under Service Functions, as prompted on the Progman screen. This test module is not functional and will be removed in a future DIS DVD release.

Always refer to SI B 24 11 07 for more information regarding GM6 transmission terminology, adaptation functionality, and adaptation procedures. Important notes:

* The transmission must be in the "Park" position, otherwise the programming may abort with the following error:

EGS ***8211;Diagnostic trouble 2089 (COAPI) - Programming mode changeover faulty

* Only use an approved BMW battery charger set to PS (Power Supply) mode and properly configured for the applicable battery AH rating.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Please refer to the latest KSD for all applicable labor operations and allowances. If the appropriate labor operation is not contained in KSD, then a work time labor operation should be used.

Defect Code 24 00 38 61 00
Please post all future complaints and/or attempted resolutions on this thread! Thank you.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Call BMW NA

If you are having problems and your dealer hasn't been able to fix them, call BMW NA customer service.

1-800-831-1117
 
#4 · (Edited)
The REAL STORY

Thanks to AzNMpower32 for this summary:

The problem: A portion of 2007-08 X3s built between 9/2006 and 11/2007 my have possible faulty transmission software programming. This affects X3s equipped with the 6-speed automatic gearbox. The gearbox may fail to respond to throttle inputs, fail to engage a lower gear, or downshift very roughly in normal Drive mode. The problem is not exhibited in manual mode. Cold temperatures may or may not make the shifting quality worse.

The BMW fix There is a software update, this is the latest release as of 10/07
AznM's information is appreciated but tells the story from a third person's perspective.

And, since she has never experienced this issue-- does not accurately portray what has/is really happened or happening with this MAJOR PROBLEM!

Here is a more telling portrayal of what is happening with a growing percentage of 07/08 AT's

The Problem Over sixty percent of users polled on this website at the beginning of 07 have a faulty transmission and the number is not diminishing but growing with the inclusion of the 08 line. The gearbox will fail to respond at random times usually in critical life threatening situations such as merging into traffic or avoiding other careless drivers. Can't seem to decide what gear to be in when making quick uphill turns. While downshifting in SD the driver may experience down shifts so rough it seems like you have been rear ended by another driver. Cold temperatures seem to always excerabate the shifting issue and the vehicle may red line or not shift at a normal rate. The vehicle seems to work perfectly while in manual mode, which means this is not a mechanical, but programming issue.

The BMW Fix


  • tell the customer it is their fault and they don't know how to drive a BMW.
  • tell the customer all AWD's drive this way.
  • tell the customer it is the gas they use.
  • tell the customer no problem found or could not replicate the issue.
  • tell the customer no one else is complaining about this issue, and try to discredit them.
  • have customer call BMWNA and stall them until Lemon Law runs out.
  • actually do an update that temporarily fixes the problem in hopes customer will go away.
  • Have BMWNA's "Sock Puppet" (Vatkens) tell the poster that this has been reported to BMWNA and stall them some more.
  • tell customer to call BMWNA of which they will tell you it is up to the dealer of which they will telll you it's BMWNA's fault!

The Real Fix


  • Ask dealer for a trade assist, since they are not fixing the problem.
  • Get a MT since none of them seem to have this issue.
  • File with the NHTSA under recall/complaints since this is a life threatening issue and cannot be ignored.
  • Keep a running Log of all transactions, conversations, and all records of service
  • Call a Lemon Law Attorney and give him/her all records since BMWNA is once again stalling!

BMWNA has had more than ample time to correct this issue. It is now surfacing in the 08 models which says that they have not devolped a tried and true fix. Remember to keep the pressure on as this is not a matter of inconvenience but a life threatening problem. If you let this go BWM will not fix it as their past behavior has shown.

If this does not tell you something then CAVEAT EMPTOR directly applies.
 
#5 ·
Bravo on the Sticky. Long overdue.

For those that consider this issue life-threatening, please use Manual mode until a proven, permanent fix has been applied. Since, as stated, the transmission does not exhibit the problems in this mode.
Yes, I know, this is not a fix, but a workaround.
This mode can also be used to reassure previously tainted family members that you have better control and get them back into the vehicle for needed transportation.
 
#6 ·
So is there another presumably better software update(s) coming from BMW on this?

I had my 07 X3 in for the October update and that did get it about 85% resolved for me.
Sure would be nice to get it fully fixed, I'm still shocked at the difference when I drive my wife's 06 X3 that has none of the issues I have.
 
#9 · (Edited)
So is there another presumably better software update(s) coming from BMW on this?
Yes. A more recent update was buggy and had to be pulled after it left several customer cars inoperable. Presumably there is another update on the way.

Dealers do not always perform the software update correctly. Reading the service bulletin , I can see how it would be easy to do the update wrong. You may want to ask another dealer to verify the software version numbers for both the EGS and DME.

Several members posted with "transmission" problems that turned out to be problems with the DSC. One way to test this out is to try driving your car with the DSC turned off. If your problems go away, you may have a bad sensor or other DSC problem.
 
#7 ·
"...sock puppet..." :rofl:

...at least you still have your sense of humor, E. :p

Good stickie by the way, thanks Kris. :thumbup:
 
#8 ·
Changed my Icon to something more subtle. Lol

Glad to see you read through the whole thing WingSpan.

Where did that quote come from btw? The service slips I have are not as detailed as that.
 
#10 · (Edited)
No disrespect, but I don't see how the service bulletin couldn't be more clear. It tells you what to do, what not to do, and what to look out for.

Seems pretty straight forward.

The latest update was so screwy they had to send the DME back to New Jersey.

They should be doing this as a SOP since some of the dealers techs are having a hard time interpreting these directions ----especially with the volatility of this issue.
 
#11 · (Edited)
No disrespect, but I don't see how the service bulletin couldn't be more clear. It tells you what to do, what not to do, and what to look out for.
Yes. But you do have to read and follow them.

If a tech just hooks the car up to the BMW Software Service Station and starts the download, it may not work. Just leaving the car in neutral would be enough.

We know from several posts here on Bimmerfest, some techs are not checking the version numbers before returning the car.

Sending the DME and EGS to New Jersey is a good idea. Unfortunately that means taking the customer car off the road for a few days. Are keys coded to work a specific DME? I'm not sure how the EWS works on the X3. If BMW NA sends the wrong DME back, the car may not start.

There are personality conflicts coming into play too. That's a polite way of saying 'pig-headed' service manager.

I've certainly run into my share of dealer service problems, just not on this issue. In our experience the quality of service varies widely between BMW dealers.
 
#12 ·
A/D what I mean is that when you schedule a service update for the vehicle a hot spare with the latest updates should be overnighted to the dealer or sent ahead of time and be waiting for the vehicle to arrive.

This would minimize downtime to a simple swap out and eliminate the point of failure that seems to be recurring. No more he said she said--just BMWNA.

They then replace your old DME with the new one and send the out-dated one back for bench testing, newest update, burn in period, then recycled to the next out dated vehicle.

This raises the level of quality assuarance along the whole custody chain.
 
#13 ·
A/D what I mean is that when you schedule a service update for the vehicle a hot spare with the latest updates should be overnighted to the dealer or sent ahead of time and be waiting for the vehicle to arrive.
If we worked for BMW AG, that's how it would be done.

There are some issues to be overcome. The EWS sends a coded message to the DME when you put the right key in the ignition. The system is designed so that the EWS module isn't easy to bypass. I don't know if the DME is coded to the keys or if only the EWS is.
 
#14 · (Edited)
My response was based upon one poster stating they had to send the entire DME back to New Jersey to be reflashed or replaced. Since they made no mention of the EWS and that they were/are an SA I figured that would have been mentioned.
 
#15 ·
Concerns

I am not a BMW owner at this point, but interested as I would like something nicer than my current ride.

I am doing my homework on different higher end awd's and the X3 is on my list.
Depending on the weather I will be test driving an X3 this weekend.
It seems from the poll a large group of people have this problem.
Has this transmission problem ever been fully resolved?
The cold weather package really worth it? Does it do what it says in other words?

I would go for a stick but the Missus doesn't want to drive one anymore.
Anyone have any experience with Carbone BMW?
 
#16 · (Edited)
It seems from the poll a large group of people have this problem.
bimmerfest is not a scientific sample. People may come here and post because they have a problem. Likely the problem is not as widespread as the polls here make it out to be. However this is a real problem.

J.D. Power and CR don't show anything near the rates reported here. I'm still waiting for the next Consumer Reports ratings. The last one shows a trouble rate between 1% and 2% but most of 2007s were less than 6 months old in that survey.

Some of the cars with transmission problems are seriously messed up. Most are fine. It is a roll of the dice. I recommend ordering an X3 with a manual transmission.

I am doing my homework on different higher end awd's and the X3 is on my list.
Good. Be sure to check other makes too. BMW isn't the only one with automatic transmission problems.

Has this transmission problem ever been fully resolved?
Not yet. The 10/2007 update fixed the problem for some people. BMW continues to work on the problem. I don't know when the next update might be released.

Different cars have different symptoms, so there is likely more than one issue.

The cold weather package really worth it? Does it do what it says in other words?
Do you mind asking in another thread? We are trying to keep this one transmission only.
 
#18 ·
Hmm: let's see, mine was bought back. HunterZ was trade assist, HT in germany was bought back... sure that's only three, but those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.

------------------------------------------------
I am not immune to the idea that someone may have a dud car. And I have had quite a few Bimmers and all had to go back in for something or the other. But, the cars are wonderful and the dealer (if competent) has always listed and fixed the problems.


But evl and the like agitate because they are out of touch totally and like to dish out and then shocked when they get it back.

I ask this:

What facts have you about BMW trade assisting people's X3 and for what reason?
Give me some solid info on that and then I can answer the question.

As it stands I have no data on the facts. Due educate, start a thread even.
__________________
2007 X3 Premium, step, owned
2008 Mercedes B200 (autotronic) Not avail in US (too bad really), leased

Formerly
2005 X3 Premium, Manual (lease ended)
2004 BMW 320i, step(owned and sold it)
2003 Mini Cooper, 5 speed (lease ended)
2000 323i, 5 speed (lease ended)
 
#20 ·
...HT in germany was bought back...
For clarification, my BMW assist was for multiple major mechanical defects that were present at delivery and during the first month of ownership, but none of these defects included the automatic transmission which is fine - build date 12/07.

Don't let my case scare you off - I'm an extreme exception to BMW's history of building quality cars.
 
#21 ·
Don't scare easily even by the likes of most things. Now just to find a dealer that has both manual and automatic to do a proper A/B comparison. Would like to thank EE as his comments brought me to this website. So there is good in all things. Will let you know what I find if the weather will hold out as projected.
 
#23 ·
Will let you know what I find if the weather will hold out as projected.
IMHO, you may want to test drive the X3 in bad weather.
 
#22 ·
Curious to know while I wait for paperwork to sort it self out.

After the last released update that scrambled the DME, have they decided on trying to re-release it?

I still have to put up with the unpredictable transmission for a while longer.

And thanks snow-man. I would advise to take one home for a weekend. The typical 15 minute demo drive is not enough time to see if you will or won't enjoy the automatic transmission.

Never drove a manual but have heard nothing but good things about it.

Personally I wish I had gotten the MT, but it's out of my hands at this point.
 
#25 ·
Sounds good, but I still need to open it up and run through the curves a bit as well. So maybe a two weekend test. Oh bummer, Lol.
Shouldn't that be "Oh bimmer"?.......:rofl:
 
#27 ·
Welcome to the club--call the service manager and cut right to the chase ask for technical rep from BMWNA to check your car. Get repsonse in writing. Apparently a number of dealers have trouble reading instructions and the updates may not have been done right.

Ask for detailed report of what updates have been done.

Document all transactions from here on out. You may need it.
 
#28 ·
not fixed yet

Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. :thumbdwn: To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.
 
#50 ·
Today we took our 2007 X3 in for the 5th time to get the transmission fixed. We had the software upgrade a few weeks ago and it didn't help much. It is still a very unpredicatable ride with hesitations followed by crazy full throttle accelerations usually at a road incline/decline. The only thing that may have been fixed is the complete failure to accelerate when trying to get on to the highway. The service manager said sorry, that's all we can do. :thumbdwn: To add insult to injury, our dealership no longer gives you a BMW loaner when your car is in the shop. They rented a Chevy Impala for us.

Evlengr, you are absolutely right about the BMW 'Fix'. I've heard the first 5 remarks on your list from the service department. The first 3 times we took the car in to get this problem resolved, they said they couldn't duplicate the problem and did absolutely nothing. By the 4th time, the 1 year/ 12,000 mile period was over -the Lemon Law period in GA. However, if BMW didn't do anything the first 3 times, does that mean they failed to comply with the part of the Lemon Law that says, a "reasonable number of attempts to repair a nonconformity have been undertaken"? We're consulting a lawyer about all of this.

My mother's Dodge caravan shifts better than our X3. Pitiful and very, very disappointing. I don't know if we will ever buy another BMW. Our first 4 were great but this fiasco has me thinking BMW doesn't make quality vehicles any longer.
I am on the same page! Be glad your dealer offered you a loaner/rental car at all! Mine basically said with out saying "call an attorney" stating it was BMW NA and not the dealer who was responsible. I am considering calling someone to talk class action suit. Does anyone agree?
 
#29 ·
Every state law varies, but it is my understanding that LL begins when you have formally notified them there is a problem. So getting a service slip may be that course. Technically you have to contact corporate BMWNA, but that might be splitting hairs. A lawyer will defintely be of help.
 
#30 · (Edited)
My X3 is back in the shop again and will keep going back til they get it fixed, give me a manual, or buy it back.

For something that is such a small problem ---- more and more people seem to be stepping forward to voice the exact same complaints. On this web site alone there are 76 owners with the transmission problem. All of them are wrong? Hardly.
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.

Best advice in the meantime is keep every invoice, service slip, etc... and document everything.

Please report your transmission issues to the NHSTA, BBB, etc..

Sooner or later we will get this solved or BMWNA may be out $3,040,000 just by rough count on this website. Not to mention all lost future sales.
 
#31 ·
In the meantime as usual the loaner (528xi- now you know why I like my dealer and not BMWNA) drives smooth as silk. No jerking, hesistation, nothing. The 328i which has the same transmission has always behaved when a loaner as well.
Are you saying the 328i uses the same transmission as the 528xi, or you mean the X3. I doubt any other car uses the same AT as the 07/08 AT. Can anyone confirm this.

One request Evl, can you go find a Oct 07 build date (or later) X3 AT and tell us how it drives while you are at BMW? Just need your opinion.

Also thanks for putting together this, or did you copy from their training manual?:

The BMW Fix

  • tell the customer it is their fault and they don't know how to drive a BMW.
  • tell the customer all AWD's drive this way.
  • tell the customer it is the gas they use.
  • tell the customer no problem found or could not replicate the issue.
  • tell the customer no one else is complaining about this issue, and try to discredit them.
  • have customer call BMWNA and stall them until Lemon Law runs out.
  • actually do an update that temporarily fixes the problem in hopes customer will go away.
  • Have BMWNA's "Sock Puppet" (Vatkens) tell the poster that this has been reported to BMWNA and stall them some more.
  • tell customer to call BMWNA of which they will tell you it is up to the dealer of which they will telll you it's BMWNA's fault!
The sign that Vatkens' lack of respond here means after over a year, no real fix here.
 
#32 ·
the trans in the X3 is a GM model... so yes, it's in MANY other brands.
 
#33 ·
I can confirm that the 328 uses the same transmission as the X3 and have had no problems when given that as a loaner.

The list is the standard responses I was given and debunked immediately. It seems to me they may be the in the BMWNA customer service manual.

I have yet to get an X3 08. I may do a little recon and take my wife's car to another dealer so I can test drive one and ask the saleperson their take on the tranny if it either does or does not behave the way ours do.

I was going to do some long term test driving of other awd's this weekend, but I still have the 528 loaner.

Will post more info as it comes in......btw Land Rovers are not an option as they are being Lemon Lawed left and right for the 06 and 07 models, and folks are getting full buy backs so there's hope to solve our dilemna as well.
 
#35 ·
I've driven a 328xi loaner (this 5th occasion my X3 was in for the dealership tech to drive it over a period of time to see if he could replicate the hesitation, etc., I had described) and I felt it's transmission also was very erratic in response - including hesitation, rough shifting, intermittent occasions where it was revving/fighting to maintain around 1200 to 1500 rpms (rather than reaching normal idle) as it was coming to complete stops, and otherwise fairly unsatisfactory performance. So much so that I told my college daughter (who's mother wishes to buy her a new 328xi) that she has to buy a manual transmission for any BMW at this point. I think this GM GA6L45R auto transmission can present with some real gremlins, befuddling the BMW engineers.
 
#36 ·
Terry, if you have had bad experineces with the 328 loaner it would show why there is such polarized respones on the X3.

Where some folks swear there are no problems and others like us swear there is.

5 out of the 6 328i loaners that I drove where very smooth.

The one was as bad as the standard X3 complaints.

Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?
 
#37 · (Edited)
Has the ZF GA6 been in use longer then the GM6?
Yes. The ZF 6HP19 was on the e90 3 series from the start of production. I'm not sure if BMW used it before that. Audi use it too. I don't know who used it first.

The GM 6L45 and 6L50 were new for the 2007 model year.

I've been reading some posts in GM hot rod forums. A few people have tried to use the transmission so they could have a 6-speed in their custom cars. Small changes in the power train lead to all sorts of problems. Looks like the programming is very specific to the application.
 
#38 ·
To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox. The shorter gear ratios of the X3 make it rev faster (hence, it's really fast to accelerate) but otherwise I experience similar feel and behaviour.

It's odd that despite having an additional gear, the top gear revs on the highway are the same as my '04 X3. By adding another gear, they basically shortened the first few gears, and gotten rid of the "hole" between top gear and the 2nd-to-top gear that exists on the older 5-speed autos.
 
#39 · (Edited)
To be honest, I felt the '08 X3 loaner I had behaved similarly to my mom's '06 325i. Makes sense, given they use the same gearbox.
'06 325i uses a ZF transmission.

Only the 328ix uses the same automatic transmission as the X3. (Not counting the European 330i )
 
#40 ·
Ok lets take this from another angle. Why not use a transmission that is known to perform well under most conditions to an unknown. Cost?
 
#41 · (Edited)
I don't know if the ZF 6HP19 was / is used in any x-drive car. The previous x-drive cars were 5 speeds.

It is possible the ZF gearbox is in someway unsuitable.

Or maybe Magna already had a customer for an Automatic Transfer Case and associated hardware for the GM unit. Magna provides 4WD engineering and parts for a lot of car companies. New Venture Gear is part of Magna Powertrain...

This is total speculation on my part. No hard facts.
 
#42 ·
Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?
 
#43 ·
Has Magna been the assembly/mfg of the X3 from the beginning?

If not when was it assigned to them?

Are they also the assembly/mfg for the X5? Or any other BMW vehicles?
Magna Steyr have been involved with the X3 from the start. They assemble all X3s, build the transfer case, and also provided engineering assistance.

All X5s are built in Spartenburg county South Carolina.

At the moment the X3 is the only car Magna builds for BMW.

Z4 production will be moving to Magna when X3 production comes to South Carolina.

Magna is currently looking for customers to take up unused plant capacity.

It is unclear if BMW will be using Magna for more than the Z4.

Summary of all planned production changes. Some of this is rumor:

X3 -- Moving to SC
X6 -- Production has begun in SC. All X6s are built in SC
Z4 -- Moving from SC to Magna Styer in Graz, Austria
X1 -- Will be built in Leipzig. Plant already tooling up.
V7 / X7 whatever they call it -- Dingolfing
Unannounced unknown vehicle -- SC. Confirmed by BMW employee.
 
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