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Who has switched from E39 to F10?

15K views 57 replies 23 participants last post by  nirvana19 
#1 ·
I am close to pulling the trigger on a 2013 550i. Now I wonder if my '02 540i is too good to leave behind and whether the 550i is a step up or a comedown.

Former E39 owner experiences welcome please.
 
#2 ·
I had an e60 535i xdrive in between 2 e39 540 6sp and my F10 550i xdrive msport full load. The e39 were more fun to drive but less dependable. The F10 is a significantly more modern car and probably a much faster car...I miss driving a stick but the 8 speed is probably a better/faster shifting tranny. Reasonable answer?
 
#3 ·
I'm keeping my 540i. She is too well maintained to sell to someone else.
 
#4 ·
I came from a 2002 535 E39. They are completely different cars from a driving perspective. The F10 is much more responsive to the throttle. F10 steering feel is much less connected to the road than the E39. One of the reasons I bought the E39 535 vs. the 540 was better steering response (the two E39s had completely different steering mechanicals). Because of this you may not notice as much of a difference between the 540 E39 and F10.

Handling of the E39 is superior to the F10 due to the fact that the F10 is larger, heavier and more softly sprung than the E39. It's hard to compensate for the added weight and size even with a more modern suspension. I have automatic roll stabilization and electronic dampers on my F10 and the E39 is still superior in this respect. The new for 2013 M suspension without the electronic suspension might be an improvement over what I have. I don't know.

The F30 series is much closer to the E39 n size and handing characteristics than the F10. That might be a consideration for you. I bought the F10 because the added interior and trunk space plus the luxurious feel of the F10 appealed to me, but I do miss the E39 from time to time.
 
#18 ·
A
I came from a 2002 535 E39. They are completely different cars from a driving perspective. The F10 is much more responsive to the throttle. F10 steering feel is much less connected to the road than the E39. One of the reasons I bought the E39 535 vs. the 540 was better steering response (the two E39s had completely different steering mechanicals). Because of this you may not notice as much of a difference between the 540 E39 and F10.
Do you mean 530i E39, because there was no 535i E39. I love the looks of the F10 5-series. A 550I with the sports suspension would be awesome.
 
#7 · (Edited)
+1 radarguy

Radarguy's post just about sums it up from my perspective. I've had three e39s (1997, 2000, 2002), but not V8s, and they were completely different than my new F10.

BTW...Be sure to test-drive an F10 with DHP before you make your final choice. The DHP's uto roll stabilization and electronic dampeners are a must for this car. Set and configure them to sport+ (for chassis and drivetrain) and drive it! Thats the best the F10 will get (handling wise) in stock form.

Otherwise, you might find yourself planning mods (springs, sways, and exhaust) like me just to get back that e 39 feel and sound.
 
#52 ·
Radarguy's post just about sums it up from my perspective. I've had three e39s (1997, 2000, 2002), but not V8s, and they were completely different than my new F10.

BTW...Be sure to test-drive an F10 with DHP before you make your final choice. The DHP's uto roll stabilization and electronic dampeners are a must for this car. Set and configure them to sport+ (for chassis and drivetrain) and drive it! Thats the best the F10 will get (handling wise) in stock form.

Otherwise, you might find yourself planning mods (springs, sways, and exhaust) like me just to get back that e 39 feel and sound.
Take this as the biggest warning against the F10. If you are used to a great driving car you will hate the F10. Getting into an E39 or E60 the drive is just great. Having to switch to sport plus or whatever in the new car is stupid. Why do you have to change settings in a new BMW to make it feel like it drives well? In the end it still drives like poop. If your car is still nice and drivable do not give it up. I would pay big money to get my original E60 back and even more for a new E39. dont do it.
 
#8 ·
I went from a 2002 530i to a 2011 528i. The E39 handled better and had better throttle response than my F10. I don't think it's a question of my 528 being underpowered. It's the throttle delay/tip in issue that makes the difference. The steering and road feel was far superior in the E39.

As for comfort and luxury, the F10 wins hands down.
 
#9 ·
If you're in love with it don't break your heart as I did. But if you want technological advancement/improvement go for the F10. Yeah, I nearly cried as I left my 2000 at the "stealer" would have kept it but didn't want the expense of long term storage cost. I love the F10 and enjoy it and you'll find that it size will surprise you compared to the F10. It's a bit larger and feels like it. The one down-side that gets me is the run-flats and no designed place to store a spare tire. Other than that I'm happy and I agree with DavidZ.
 
#13 ·
My 550 should arrive in June. I think the E39 530 was the best balanced having owned that for 4 years before moving on to the 540 which is front heavy and has recirculating ball steering.

Despite the F10 being larger, softer and subjectively lacking in steering feel, the 540 although ok in the handling department isn't something to write home about although greatly improved with an M5 RSB and steering gearbox.

In the end, I think the overall dimensions and looks will be what is missed most about the E39 - the stars were aligned when BMW built that car.


F30? meh..
 
#22 ·
My 550 should arrive in June. I think the E39 530 was the best balanced having owned that for 4 years before moving on to the 540 which is front heavy and has recirculating ball steering.

Despite the F10 being larger, softer and subjectively lacking in steering feel, the 540 although ok in the handling department isn't something to write home about although greatly improved with an M5 RSB and steering gearbox.

In the end, I think the overall dimensions and looks will be what is missed most about the E39 - the stars were aligned when BMW built that car.

F30? meh..
Agree with the "stars were aligned" comment. Many here might not remember it, but one of the popular car magazines (Car and Driver?) tested the E39 530i and said it was the best car they had EVER tested. I really miss that car

But my F10 is growing on me.
 
#14 · (Edited)
The E39 was one of the biggest home runs of any modern mass produced car, as well as perhaps the highest on the "modern classic" Sedan totem pole.

I used to drive my Mom's every now and then when I was younger and dreaming of one day being able to afford my own (hers was a 528i, noticeably underpowered but that distinctive I6 sound and feel was always engrained in my blood and man was it smooth), and I do remember it feeling a bit more connected than my F10....

.... but speaking relative to time (i.e, basically every car nowadays is quieter, bigger and softer than its forefathers), I really feel like the spirit of the E39 in terms of design at least has been recaptured by the F10. My Mom had an E60 after her E39 and it gave me no impressions of the spirit of the E39.

The interior of the F10 is very elegant and premium, just like the E39, the lines are smooth and the car has a balanced essence of finesse that teeters the lines of sportiness and stateliness that I feel the E39 also captured during its time.

I feel that in overall refinement, the F10 captures the E39 during its time and then some, but as far as driving I'm sure those longing for the E39 feel will find it massive, soft and floatier.

As for a universal judgement of car Vs car in the appliance Vs appliance sense, the F10 is a vastly superior automobile, as of course it should be, considering it is essentially an 15+ year evolution of the E39.
 
#16 ·
I feel that in overall refinement, the F10 captures the E39 during its time and then some, but as far as driving I'm sure those longing for the E39 feel will find it massive, soft and floatier.

As for a universal judgement of car Vs car in the appliance Vs appliance sense, the F10 is a vastly superior automobile, as of course it should be, considering it is essentially an 15+ year evolution of the E39.
well stated. I also see the F10 as the evolution of the E39 - it's even starting to look like it which is a good thing

I HATED the E60, still do, makes the F10 look SO much nicer.
very, very well said. funny how the E60 looks so dated now, still disappointing, still ugly, still a mystery - but - drove very well I will give it that.
 
#15 ·
I currently have both. Different cars obviously, but similar in driving experience, except the F10 handles like a go-kart. I think the F10 will someday be as much of a classic as the E39. I HATED the E60, still do, makes the F10 look SO much nicer.
 
#21 ·
Love that pic. The E60 so seems like the odd duck. If you took it out, the lineage would look very evolutionary.

I feel like actually a lot of the F10's aesthetic inspiration came from the E34 as much as the E39. I feel it has the "grace" of the E39, but lots of things like the L shaped taillights and most notably the Hofmeister Kink are very E34 inspired. Namely the fact that not since the E34 has any BMW had such a strongly penned Hofmeister Kink, as if BMW is sticking it to all those copycats who apply the Hof Kink on especially FWD cars by making the F10's "Kink" so dramatic, so sweeping, so stated.
 
#48 ·
Glad that I'm not the only person who sees the E34 to F10 connection - I am biased since my first car (which I still have) was an E34 but I absolutely love the parallels between the designs of the two vehicles separated by wholly two decades. I did have a brief E39 stint, and strongly agree that the F10 looks more like a successor to the E39 than the E60.

I know there are many E39 owners who also have F10s but I have a feeling I am one of very few F10 owners who also owns an E34.
 
#25 ·
F10 vs E39

I still have my 2000 528I with the Sport Package and bought a 2011 535 XI with the Sport and Aero Kit. For sheer "get in the car and row the gearbox and go through twisty turny corners", the old E39 wins hands down.

For long cruises I have taken the F10 is a great starship - however you are talking Cadillac experince (even with Sport Mode turned on) and not the driving feeling that made BMW famous.

To misquote an old song - BMW has lost that driving feeling ...

The F10 is a good car - but let's face it - my neighbour's Lincoln has better electronics and most of the features at $30K less ...
 
#26 ·
my neighbour's Lincoln has better electronics and most of the features at $30K less ...
The implementation and usability of the features is just as important, if not more so, than the mere inclusion of those features. This is something that is often overlooked by a lot of people, including the magazines, when comparing two vehicles.

Comparing a Lincoln to a 5er reminds me of comparing a Kindle Fire to an iPad. Sure, the Kindle Fire is nice and has all of the same features, but the iPad is still much better, more refined, and worth the extra money, if you can afford it.
 
#28 ·
F10 vs E39

Ouch ... while I love my BMW, I would suggest before you make the iPad vs Kindle comparison, you take a look at Ford Electronics vs BMW. Even Bimmer magazine rated Ford higher. Go play with both and tell me why the BMW is "quality over specs". If nothing else, the Ford is far easier and more intuitive to use. No - I would not buy a Ford - just saying BMW is just a little behind the curve.

My $100 Garmin runs circles around the BMW Nav system in my F10 .. and my lifetime Garmin upgrade cost $39 vs. the $250 annual cost I was quoted at BMW ...
 
#29 ·
Ouch ... while I love my BMW, I would suggest before you make the iPad vs Kindle comparison, you take a look at Ford Electronics vs BMW. Even Bimmer magazine rated Ford higher. Go play with both and tell me why the BMW is "quality over specs". If nothing else, the Ford is far easier and more intuitive to use. No - I would not buy a Ford - just saying BMW is just a little behind the curve.

My $100 Garmin runs circles around the BMW Nav system in my F10 .. and my lifetime Garmin upgrade cost $39 vs. the $250 annual cost I was quoted at BMW ...
Please post a URL for us to read about how great Ford controls and electronics are. I'm genuinely interested.

The Lincoln's usability is not good. And I've driven other Ford vehicles too, such as the Explorer. I was forced to drive a relatively new Explorer for a month while my Odyssey was repaired from a collision. I hated every minute of it because the controls and so forth are not usable. They suck.

But I'm interested in any reviews you've read that rate them high. Maybe I've been driving the wrong Ford vehicles.

Regarding the Garmin, I've used one. I hated it. The user interface was not good and it was sluggish. Reminds me of the Kindle Fire (although I don't hate my Kindle Fire, I just don't love it).

Regarding the F10 nav, I've heard numerous reports of it being inaccurate. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive so I have not had any personal experience with it yet. But the features do actually need to work, so if the F10 nav struggles to be accurate then that would be a negative.
 
#30 ·
I have a Ford, I also have a BMW. Both have nav, voice features, etc.

Ford CAN be clunky at times, but overall it is much easier to use. When you add in the fact that Ford has continued to improve their system (mine is a 2011 system purchased in mid 2010), SYNC just blows the BMW system out of the water. Please remember, this is the touch screen/nav based SYNC system. I've also driven a Ford vehicle without nav, but with SYNC, and I would concur that it is horrible when compared to both BMW and Ford Nav based systems.

Now, BMW is a nice car overall, but with just a few minor changes to the drivetrain, I might have purchased a Ford Taurus SHO (needed to be more RWD biased). If I were to choose between a 3 coupe and a Mustang, I might just choose the Mustang. They are different cars for different things and it's a matter of preference. Overall, I purchased the 550 because it did what I wanted it to do better than the others I looked at. I bought by truck for the very same reason. It does what I need/want it to do better than the others I looked at did.

One thing I would encourage everyone to do when looking for your next vehicle is drive the competition. Don't be a brand snob...especially if you love to actually DRIVE your cars. BMW is a great car, but unless you want the car just because it will impress others, don't buy it because it says BMW. Instead, buy your car based on how you feel when driving it. In doing so, you may find that your next love affair will be with an Audi, a Mercedes, a Ford, a Lincoln, a Toyota, or a Mazda....or some other make altogether.
 
#31 ·
I have a Ford, I also have a BMW. Both have nav, voice features, etc.

Ford CAN be clunky at times, but overall it is much easier to use. When you add in the fact that Ford has continued to improve their system (mine is a 2011 system purchased in mid 2010), SYNC just blows the BMW system out of the water. Please remember, this is the touch screen/nav based SYNC system. I've also driven a Ford vehicle without nav, but with SYNC, and I would concur that it is horrible when compared to both BMW and Ford Nav based systems.

Now, BMW is a nice car overall, but with just a few minor changes to the drivetrain, I might have purchased a Ford Taurus SHO (needed to be more RWD biased). If I were to choose between a 3 coupe and a Mustang, I might just choose the Mustang. They are different cars for different things and it's a matter of preference. Overall, I purchased the 550 because it did what I wanted it to do better than the others I looked at. I bought by truck for the very same reason. It does what I need/want it to do better than the others I looked at did.

One thing I would encourage everyone to do when looking for your next vehicle is drive the competition. Don't be a brand snob...especially if you love to actually DRIVE your cars. BMW is a great car, but unless you want the car just because it will impress others, don't buy it because it says BMW. Instead, buy your car based on how you feel when driving it. In doing so, you may find that your next love affair will be with an Audi, a Mercedes, a Ford, a Lincoln, a Toyota, or a Mazda....or some other make altogether.
Now I'm curious. I'll probably go check it out on Saturday. The Ford's I've driven probably did not have what you describe.

Does it have a controller like iDrive? And if so, where is the controller located?

One of the main usability niceties of iDrive is the location of its controller. It's the best location, especially for cruising, because you can leave your arm on the arm rest. Additionally, a controller has a distinct advantage over a touch screen in that you tend to memorize the movements needed to access the features, which makes them accessible without taking your eyes off the road.
 
#32 ·
Every time I drove an American car over the last 20 years, I was left hating the experience! Whether it was the terrible seats or the cheap plastics or the poor design or the un reliability or the TERRIBLE sales experience at the show room, it was just an aweful experience. I don't think I'll ever buy an American car again.
 
#36 · (Edited)
I've had good luck with my American cars over the years. In fact, I have not owned an American car that burned oil....but my brand new 550 burns oil and it's "normal". I used to drive the heck out of my cars (50, then 90 mile one way commutes). They would all end up much higher than 100k miles. Now that I work out my home, it's not as bad (50ft commute bed to computer), but I still drive when I take vacations (1200+mile trips). I would rather take any of my American vehicles over my wife's 330 over any decent distance. Finally, my wife's 3 is in about the same condition then her Grand Prix was at the same age/milage

I would also take an American truck over any non-US trucks. (and yes, i mean trucks and 1/2, 3/4 ton sport utes). The Tundra is nice, as is the Sequoia, but I prefer the Suburban or the F Series.

I will give you points for the cheap plastics issue...especially GM.

That said, I have had horrible sales experiences with Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW. Mrs. Stonehauler and I are both engineers, have good jobs (and no kids), but when we walk into a Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, or BMW dealership, we are overlooked, passed by, and generally ignored. Why? Most likely because we are not in the 40+ crowd. I have not had the same experience at Ford or GM.

When I walk in ready to order my car (all but one of my cars was a factory order), I know EXACTLY what I want, and what I do not want, and I will ask for their bottom line...no back and forth, but their best deal the first time. I will have a list of options and I will already know the price both wholesale and retail. If they are within $500 of each other, I will go with the one that is closer to me or has a better service dept, but if a dealership has ignored me, my wife, or was a general pain to deal with...they will not earn my business no matter how good their price might be. Nor will I go there to service. I drove 50 miles to service my Lexus previously. There were dealers closer, but I believe that it's good to reward a dealership that does right by the customer.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Look at almost any Ford, or any other american car for that matter, that is 5 years old. They look dated, old. Now look at a BMW. ANY BMW, 5, 10 or 20 years old. It still looks classy, interesting. German cars tend to age really well. I would be happy driving a 10 or 15 year old MB, BMW or Porsche. Would you like a 10 year old Lincoln???? :rofl:

Overall, I don't think there is any other sedan on the road that I would rather drive than my F10 535 M-Sport.
 
#42 · (Edited)
#43 ·
Awe yeah!

Honestly, I would love to own one of these vehicles in tip-top shape.
 
#44 ·
If only steering with your pinky wasn't associated with the 1-2 inches of play in the wheel....
 
#45 ·
LOL!

But then, that goes back to the experience as a kid, watching g-pa navigate the beast, adjusting the position of the wheel back and forth to keep her straight on course...
 
#47 ·
In the past 10 years I've owned an E39 M5 (2000) and an E60 M3 (2008). Just sold the M3 and got a 2013 550i x-drive M sport carbon black. This car is night and day different - it's bigger and far more comfortable inside. I did bump up things a bit by adding Dinan S2 performance chip, suspension, and free flow exhaust - so now not only much better comfort inside but also a lot more torque and hp than the predecessors I've owned. The only thing I miss from my M3 (which I loved) was the DCT. I was in market for a high performance AWD and looked at Audi S7 and the RS5. The BMW was a far far better value in my view.
 

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#56 ·
no love for the E60?

I might be the ONLY one here with these sentiments but I still have a part of my heart with the E60. Yes, I had three E39s (1997, 2000, 2002) in the past that I drove to over 80K each and enjoyed every single mile. Our 2008 E60, though, is still in the family, still remains my jump-in and go grocery getter. Though only a 528i, it does have sport package, ARS, sport automatic, and Nav system. While the exterior Bangle design of the E60 is subjective (with most people not liking it), much has to be said about BMW bringing technology to the driving public with the introduction of the E60. Things like Active steering, Active Roll Stabilization, Active headlights, and the introduction of RFT (!). For my spirited type of driving, I am still amazed how easily the E60 does it. Nice, lowered and tuned sport suspension, ready right out of the gate (no mods needed). And the RFT? BMW thoughtfully (more like overlooked) the inclusion of a spare tire well with temp tire installed. Yes! So, for some of us, easy peasy upgrade to non RFT on the E60.

The latter years (2008 on) E60 had improved interiors and nicer sheet metal changes (especially M Sport on last MY). Looks aside, the E60 will be should be given credit for dragging us into the technology age of automobiles.

So back to the OP theme. F10 natural evolution of the E39? Maybe, but I don't think so. The F10 is a "down market" version of the 7 series. A "sporty" version of a luxury sedan. The E39 was a luxury version of a SPORT sedan. The E60 was the less attractive but tech endowed evolution of the E39. Still a SPORT sedan in my book. The F10 is from a whole different planet. That works for me...I'm older now and not so much in a hurry.;)
 
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