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Official BMW DEF top off policy

31K views 156 replies 34 participants last post by  Snipe656 
#1 ·
I just received a voice mail message from BMW NA saying that the top off of DEF between services will NOT be covered under the BMW service plan. I will try to upload my voice message to this forum tomorrow.
So, is this a big deal...yes and no. DEF is cheap and once I figure out how to get it into the storage tank I can top it off myself. My car was bone dry at 5K miles. My dealer will top it off under their good will plan as well. For all of us who took a chance on this great car, BMW has let us down when they could have just said...yes, we'll cover all DEF top offs because we value our customers.
 
#2 ·
Shouldn't your follow up question to BMWNA request their policy on how long a "filled" ad blue system is supposed to last? Like say, 15,000 miles? My understanding of this whole system is that it is supposedly designed for flush and refill at the same time as the 15,000 mile oil changes. As others have noted in the other thread, since you needed a refill at 5,000 miles, they need to provide an explanation of why your car did not make it to the expected mileage. Either something is amiss with your car, or our cars use this stuff at quite different rates, or your system was never properly filled upon delivery. Since BMW has not seen fit to provide us with a way to assess the status of the system's tank(s), it seems to be in their ballpark to provide more explanation than "it will not be covered".
 
#3 · (Edited)
This sounds lame and really incredulous (if that is a real word:p).

If you had to refill at 5k something was wrong as many have said on this forum.

I would make such a rage at the dealer they would have to probably call in the authorities to cart me off.

This is not a consumable item that is determined by the operator. It is precisely metered.

So either they failed to fill up properly at delivery or the metering system has failed to function properly.

I can guarantee you that I will be requesting proof of service when I finally bring my car in for its first service. I'm only at 5.5k so far but service is being indicated at 8k, so not much further to go.

Don't take BS for an answer!:mad:

Here is their advertisement:http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...2oOiVrAWk2wxxx1s7IT7aaHsmtY96WSbJT1TZrWU6tg==

And this:

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)2 - drain and refill (only in conjunction with a covered engine oil and filter replacement)
Running-in check at 1,200 miles2 (BMW M vehicles only, excluding the X5 M, X6 M)
Reset the maintenance system

A factory-recommended maintenance service item interval is determined either by the model-specific BMW Maintenance System (Service Interval Display or Condition Based Service), and/or upon examination and assessment for wear and tear4 of covered components during a vehicle inspection.
 
#5 ·
Correction, I have 8k more miles until service is required. Had to read the manual to understand that. When in doubt, read the manual folks!
 
#4 ·
Greetings all,

Yes, I've posted this 2x - don't flame me, I'm just tech challenged (don't know how to move the original post) so I've cut and pasted.....

Thought to ponder...If the average joe is only obtaining 5-8k miles before having to fill the DEF tank, what the hell is all the talk about the stealership "needing to drain the tank?"

IOW, conservatively, let's assume the shelf life on the DEF fluid is 24 mos and let's also presume that most owners drive 5K+ annually. So through consumption alone, the car should not have any "expired" DEF fluid in it. So again begs the question, What the hell are they draining? Air?

As is documented by this thread, the DEF that BMW claims should last 15k miles or until the first sheduled oil change is not even coming close. Thus, BMW should step up and do the right thing - top off the DEF fluid as needed free of charge during the 4/50k program.

BTW, I will continue to reiterate, that yes it's a BMW, yes I understand that they are expensive to own, and if/when time comes I may have to shell out for x repairs. Nevertheless, for crying out loud, they're starting to resemble Spirit Airlines with the nickle and diming to death!



Cheers,

-slug
 
#6 ·
Folks, suggest you carefully read pages 198-199 in the Owners's Manual.

I tried copying the pdf but it is protected.

Anyway, it describes pretty much everything you need to know, and warns that rapid acceleration or high altitude driving may cause the service interval to be reduced for the DEF Fluid.

Please read and understand what it says.

Then bitch!
 
#13 ·
The section on what is not covered in the free maintenance program (Page 4 of the 335d service and warranty manual) states that DEF is not covered:
"DEF change performed outside the recommended maintenance intervals as indicated by the service interval display"

It is almost worded in a legal fashion so can any lawyers shed a light on this point: it says DEF CHANGE is not covered, fair enough, but what about topping off? If BMW tries to hide behind that statement, can we also point out that top offs are not explicitly stated?

Wonder why they just can't cover it to promote these cars more/maintain good customer relationship considering that they are having a hard time selling these cars :dunno:
 
#11 ·
Here's the catch, from the BMW owners manual page 117 non-idrive car:
"Preferred:BMW Diesel Exhaust Fluid.
Diesel Exhaust Fluid can be refilled conveniently with this bottle and it special adapter."
Can BMW at least give us the special adapter so we can fill it ourselves with 4 dollar a gallon DEF from the auto parts store?
 
#14 ·
#15 ·
Good find, Penguin.
I guess fallowing gents:
Thomas Plucinsky
BMW Product and Technology Communications Manager
Tel. 201-307-3783
Thomas.Plucinsky@bmwna.com
David J. Buchko
Advanced Powertrain & Heritage Communications
Tel. 201-307-3709
Dave.buchko@bmwna.com
Matthew Russell
BMW Product and Technology Communications
Tel. 201-307-3755
Matthew.Russell@bmwna.com

would be the right ones to get firm answer from
:rolleyes:

I'm printing this document....
 
#20 ·
Well, I'm not a lawyer but I deal with OEM's all the time.

I think BMW has not been ambiguous that "regularly scheduled" DEF Change and Fill (at oil change interval) is covered.

Any other time would not be covered unless you can prove it was somehow a defect or they failed to fill it properly in the first place, i.e. a warranty or delivery problem.

They do point out that rapid acceleration (and who amongst us does not enjoy that feature every chance we get?:angel:) and altitude can affect the rate of DEF consumption.

It is not that much different than tire tread wear. If you are an agressive driver (like me) your can expect your tire life to be reduced.

Try this one on them next time. Bring it in, have them service the DEF, then when they hit you with the bill, you politely argue it is unwarranted and you refuse to pay. If they like, they may remove the fluid and you will put in your own, thank you very much! I doubt they will actually remove it, and hopefully you will be able to convince the SA the errors in their ways.

Guys, do we have any statistics on how many folks are not making their 15k oil change interval? I think I'm about halfway there, mine currently says it should happen at 13k.
 
#21 ·
Any other time would not be covered unless you can prove it was somehow a defect or they failed to fill it properly in the first place, i.e. a warranty or delivery problem.
How do you reconcil that with their public press release statement of "Since all BMWs sold in the US benefit from The BMW Maintenance Program, the refilling of the DEF tanks will be a no-charge service for the first 4 years or 50,000 miles?"

They did not have any qualifiers or footnotes with that statement.
 
#22 ·
I have yet to see someone make it to 15k for an oil change. I think the most I saw was someone stating a hair under 11k. My first change I think was in the 6k range and due to time and not because of mileage. My car currently says oil change I think at 10k, I have been wondering if that means in 10k miles or at 10k because if at then seems like a very short lifespan for that oil.
 
#28 ·
I said seems short because it would mean basically 3500 miles between the first and second changes with a large percentage of my driving being freeway. It had read higher after the first change but slowly went down with some driving. Guess I will never worry about running out of DEF at the rate it is calling for oil changes.
 
#30 ·
Reading your earlier post you state that the first oil change was due to time. This begs the question - Did your dealer reset the oil life monitor?

The other item is the 10K mile figure you reference. Is this the number that comes on in the instrument cluster at start-up? If so - that is a count-down timer to service required - i.e. you would have 10K miles to your next oil change. "Vehicle Info" in iDrive shows maintenace requirements by date or total mileage.
 
#31 ·
They reset it and actually it got reset again during one of the other vacations to the dealer. You answered my question though in regards to if that is an actual mileage on the display or miles till(countdown). I don't have iDrive if I use the control on the wheel though that is the number I get which matches the numer flashed at startup.
 
#32 ·
Received the DEF warning on Sunday (2010 X5D). Just under 10,000 miles. Have an appt tomorrow with dealer...going to be interesting. I'm hoping the change the oil and flush DEF. Does anyone know how close to 11K miles you have to be before they do the oil change?
 
#38 ·
I did and it took forever for the DEF part of it. Actually took so long that the guy said next time to get a loaner car. Want to say I was there for 5-6 hours total. My guess is it had to do with the flushing of so much fluid. At the rate I have not been driving the car this year, I might very well end up doing another annual change this year.
 
#41 ·
Yeah, well when stored in the proper temperatures then it is two years. Just found this response to the very question:

Q. What is the shelf life of DEF?
A. The shelf life of DEF is a function of ambient storage temperature. DEF will degrade over time depending on temperature and exposure to sun light. Expectations for shelf life as defined by ISO Spec 22241-3 are the minimum expectations for shelf life when stored at constant temperatures. If stored between 10 and 90 deg F, shelf life will easily be one year. If the maximum temperature does not exceed approximately 75 deg F for an extended period of time, the shelf life will be two years.
Given that temps here are routinely over 75 degrees then I am betting a whole lot that the temps of my DEF tanks are well over that range. Plus we have no idea how old the fluid was before getting put into the vehicles.

With all that said, I am not worried one bit about the age of the fluid in my car.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Yeah, well when stored in the proper temperatures then it is two years. Just found this response to the very question:

Given that temps here are routinely over 75 degrees then I am betting a whole lot that the temps of my DEF tanks are well over that range. Plus we have no idea how old the fluid was before getting put into the vehicles.

With all that said, I am not worried one bit about the age of the fluid in my car.
Interestingly enough, I bought a bottle of DEF from my dealer since I am going on a trip, and the bottle said two things: (1) there was an inkjet number/date on it implying it was bottled last September, and (b) the label says to discard it after five years.

The five years seems extremely optimistic, from what I have read everywhere else... where the stability of DEF is generally given as 1-2 years.
 
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