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2209 335d Clogged Intake Carbon

62K views 242 replies 35 participants last post by  Doug Huffman 
#1 · (Edited)
Just bought a 2009 335d, with 76K on it. Had it checked out, although not as thoroughly as I should have, less than 24 hours of owning it, the reduced engine power icon came on, putting it in limp mode. I ended up taking it to the dealership and it seems the Intake is clogged with carbon, and perhaps the Cylinder Head. Any way to clean the intake without replacing it? Any ideas where to get a new Intake inexpensively? The cost from the dealership is $1,200+ total installed $1,800+, if the Cylinder Head has carbon it will have to be pulled and dipped $4000+ ($3,000 labor). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!
 
#108 ·
sounds like you are going to court depending on how this turns out, unfortunately.


I have been in multiple hearings as an "expert witness" to testify my estimates and findings when things like this come around. It also comes at a price, since I am not in my shop- and I have to supplement my money lost for the day
 
#109 · (Edited)
Do any of these problems correlate to brand of diesel fuel used? Thinking of getting a new 328d, but want it for the long term. All these issues with carbon in the intake, fuel injectors, etc is giving me pause.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Inconsistent fuel quality may be part of the problem in so much as it may have caused injector failure or dirty nozzles which resulted in premature build up, but I suspect that operating conditions (i.e. low load conditions) and head design of the M57 engine are the primary culprits. The X535d doesn't seem to have this problem.

The 4 cylinder in the 328d shouldn't have this problem but who knows. Different injectors (solenoid vs piezo)and engine design after all. UK owners would be the ones to ask.
 
#111 ·
Just picked up the injectors and dropped them off with Diesel Injection, to be tested. I spoke with my service adviser without the service manager as well the technician that worked on the car. The reason that the technician brought up changing the injectors was because of postings from the bmw forums, on similar jobs where the intake was replaced and the cylinder head removed to be cleaned the injectors were replaced as well. Again no way to test them, basically have to replace all 6 at a list price cost of $3,000+.
 
#119 ·
I'm sorry to hear about the situation you're in, but this dealer really screwed up, and they need to make it right.

You might want to have the injectors tested at an independent, but I think at this point, the next thing the dealer should see is a letter from your lawyer. When they realize that it's going to cost them at least that much to defend themselves, they will settle out of court. Of course it might end up costing you that much as well, but either way it's costing you.

I have been in a similar situation with a used car a long time ago and I sued and settled out of court. It's like a game of poker but I wasn't bluffing. It was worth it.
 
#123 ·
@ bigugly fab

I've seen on other postings/threads where fuel injector(s) failed and dde and had to be replaced, but didn't hydrolock the motor... If it is true and my fuel injector failed and caused my engine to hydrolock why would mine have hydrolocked and someone else's didn't?
 
#124 ·
Does anyone know what the specifications are on the injectors for the 335d? Does anyone know where I might find said information on the internet? I just got off the phone with Diesel Injection and the technician that tested them is gone for the day, so I have to call tomorrow, but I don't have any information on the injectors and would like to provide the technician with the spec's to compare with his findings and or tests. Thank you all for your help!!
 
#129 ·
UPDATE!!! - Yesterday I stopped by Diesel Injection, I had dropped the injectors at Diesel Injection to be tested, since the dealership claims it's the #6 injector that caused the motor to Hydro-lock. Well although he's not done yet, he did test the injectors and said that they seemed to be fine. In other words the #6 injector wasn't any different that #5, #4, #3, #2, or #1. However, he's waiting on a new injector to be delivered so he can test that and compare it to my 6 injectors. So as bigugly fab indicated originally when they offered me there story, something didn't sound right, didn't add up. As I noticed in other threads, where the injector or injectors had failed they're motors didn't hydro-lock. Also, the local news guy (and bmw enthusiast) whom I reached out to, spoke with the GM of The BMW Store, and pleaded my case and asked if there wasn't anything further he could do, of course the GM said that they had already offered $3500 off the discounted price of around $15,500 so now I'm wondering where else I might look to figure out exactly what happened, any ideas?? Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all the input and encouragement.
 
#132 ·
Does anyone have any spec's on the injectors? Flow rate? Pressure? etc... All six (6) injectors have tested similarly nothing extraordinary on the #6 injector which is supposed to have failed and dumped fuel into the cylinder head causing the Hydro-Lock and destroying the motor. Thank you.
 
#133 ·
The lawyer has been working on a letter to the dealer... I shared the results of the injector test with the dealer and told them it couldn't be the #6 injector all injectors are in specifications, including the new one that was tested to compare to. He said that the injector failure was there theory as to the cause of the engine failure. They want their loaner back now, and are taking the oil pan off, I guess the engineer from BMW is coming in, and will have it available for me to look at tomorrow morning. :mad:
 
#134 · (Edited)
I once had a frank discussion with the service manager at a car dealer. 50% satisfaction was considered pretty good. With other public service industries to compare to, its no wonder BMW charges such high fees (parts, labor, new cars) to try and maintain a high(er) level of customer care. The legal climate and playing field with added NBC 20/20, Consumer Reports, 60 Minutes, and perhaps EPA anti-business attitudes make enthusiast automakers' tasks that much more difficult.

This doesn't excuse dealer/mechanic screw-ups, but I can sympathize with both sides. The dealer is in a difficult spot, it seems, as is the customer. They should chin up and fix your engine for minimum cost. Maybe a compromise of getting a new(er) engine as a benefit would justify some out-of-pocket. Just saying.
 
#135 ·
They've come down from $18,700 which originally they told was the cost of a replacement motor. Then they offered me around $15,500 most recently they offered around $12,000 and say they're losing money. I don't think they're necessarily loosing money if a new long block is $9300 and it takes 16 hours to install it. I just sent them a note that I didn't want the motor torn down unless myself or a representative was present to observe. I'd be willing to pay something to avoid litigation, $12,000 isn't what I had in mind though!!
 
#136 ·
Folks,

Norty Norty shared this service report after he got an SES light.

Clogged up DEF Mixer due to crystallized Urea. This is common, he isn't driving car much anymore.

But what about this swirl flap in the intake manifold????

I've seen some discussion here as it relates to the carbon intake problem. What exactly is this swirl flap? They reference an SIB as well.
 

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#140 ·
Here is the latest, the oil pan came off and into the bottom end they went. It seems that the rod bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston. The rod wasn't bent, the piston 6mm to low block cracked. The motor was dropped from the car and then the top end was taken apart, head removed and sent out. then put back together and the motor was put back in. Is it coincidental that it happened 109 miles after all the engine work?
 
#142 · (Edited)
Im lost. "the rod bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston"

I was almost certain the rod was broken and had punched a dent in the block. how else would that happen? a bent rod will dent the block, but you said it wasnt bent?
It kind of completely throws their "theory" of hydrolock dont you think?

I have seen S54's loose a rod bearing from their rod bearing issues, and the piston would contact the head likes yours did..... but its a known issue in the S54 world they have crappy bearings (which i have a solution for :D)

What? It spun a rod bearing? why? if the head was off, it was drained of coolant and oil.
I have seen abrasives ("whiz" wheels, green flappy dics, etc.etc.) get into the oil, along with other neat things like shop rags and other fun stuff that isn't supposed to be in there, clogging up the oiling system.....


You may not be able to put 2 and 2 together, but things don't happen like this just by "coincidence". I think the word you may be looking for is "negligence"


I mean, I have run into this a few times:

i roll the windows down in a car to get the hot air out- a window regulator just drops the window.... "it wasn't like that when I brought it in"
I changed the oil on a E61 yesterday- check engine light came on as soon as he left..... tank venting valve. I could see someone being suspicious that I screwed up..... but fortunately, he is a very understanding guy and can realize its nothing to do with what I did.


"it" happens- and sucks when it does, but this doesnt make sense. Rods don't just spit out a bearing. They dont just fall out. lack of oil and trash will make a bearing fall out though!
 
#145 ·
Clarification please: Did the rod come disconnected from crank or did the piston become disconnected from the rod (piston pin keeper issue)? Bigugly went where my retracted post had. I reread and it said bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston.

Lower engine failure is not a random thing. Especially if it's heavy duty forged stuff like a diesel design uses. If the dealer didn't screw something up, its things like loss of oil pressure or perhaps too high of revs. Not accusing you of too high of revs. If oil pressure loss would have happened, there would have been widespread damage at all crankshaft journals.

Is the top of piston in anyway marred or dented in? Before tear down, i would have presumed valve/piston collision.

Is $9300 for long block at dealer cost? best of luck buddy. We're praying this will get resolved.
 
#146 ·
Finally!!! The GM calls today at the end of the day, and says he has good news!! A new motor with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty... My part $2,500 + tax!!! Damn I thought it might get ugly, glad it worked out. Thank you everyone for your input, have a great weekend. :bigpimp:
 
#150 · (Edited)
Tongue in cheek comment: I'm supposing new injectors are going in :)

So glad to hear the GM stepped up to the plate. I'm wondering if the dealership is footing the bill or BMWNA? Moejav, you've had to ride this out for awhile now so breath a little easier. Since you have 2 years warranty, i guess you can't go do the EGR delete (coding, not physical removal). I would presume this warranty covers the engine proper not including turbos and other extremeties. You might want to get that distinct line drawn now as to what is in the 2 years and what is not. Emissions should be good for you until 70,000 miles though.

Bigugly, do you do EGR removal coding? We are both in Houston. So far, I've heard of places in South Florida and somewhere in Canada. We are in sort of a catch 22. Have the thing turned off now and void the warranty vs wait until warranty over and too much stuff built up and paying to have cleaned, no warranty, and pay for EGR deactivation. I'm at 27,300 miles and 17 months left. Time will expire first. I had contemplated extended warranty but that means dealing with intake cleanings unless a related problem crops up.

It would seem there are too many other risks unrelated to intake being fowled to risk no warranty. The DDE, injectors, SCR tanks are quick ones that come to mind. Proving EGR delete didn't cause these other problems would be tough. The SCR system is compensating for NOx in exhaust and EGR delete will definatley increase NOx unless meth injection comes to the rescue. Presuming meth injection another source of warranty problems. So, there could be a potential service manager judgement that EGR delete caused SCR malfunction.
 
#153 ·
Off topic but I have to chime in on the Resturant question. Having travelled a lot to Houston, for steak, at least for me hands down the place to go is 'Taste of Texas'. It's not a chain, it's a one of a kind resturant. a little west of downtown on I-10. Better quality than the chains, a little less $$$. But be warned is very popular and in the past would only take reservations for groups of more than 6. So if you arrive at 6PM with you party of 4, might be an hour wait. But they will have free snacks while you wait.
 
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