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2011 Lexus IS-F or M3

38K views 159 replies 55 participants last post by  16n69 
#1 · (Edited)
OK...did some time over at the Lexus IS-F forum...to see if they could be objective...
...they, for the most part, had a lot of respect for the E9x M3, but ultimately felt that the IS-F
now equaled it in performance as described in the C&D Feb. 2011 article "Lightening Lap".

Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact and no BMW can compete in that area?
Most beleive BMW stand for Bring More Worry...especially after warranty and that the Lexus is virtually worry free dependability, long term, past warranty?

IT IS/WAS THE 2011 IS-F, I was 'comparing"....NOT any other YEAR ( they sucked!)
 
#50 ·
I will ask, what is it that attracts you to either car? Does a sedan, or automatic transmission appeal? Or would you be more interested in a coupe, or traditional manual transmission?

And personally, I wouldn't even consider those two cars together. I know they are in the same class, but I would compare more similarly the M3 to the Audi RS4, and at the other side, the IS-F to the Mercedes C63 AMG. (Sorry to complicate things here, just bear with me.) The Audi and the M3 are both a little more purpose-focused I think. Both concentrate their efforts on honing what is already good and intended of both vehicles, and that is focusing on the driver, being connected to the road. The IS-F and the AMG I feel are in a little bit different category. These two rely on bigger, torquier V-8's, Automatic transmissions, more comfortable rides, and are gaudily styled to shout (literally) "Hey look at me!" There's not as much focus behind those two; You can tell they were ordinary sedans worked over in an attempt to be "M3 killers." But there's more to an M3 than big displacement, big wheels, and big exhaust pipes. Not saying the IS-F and AMG are bad cars, but I think they're different buyers. So, I've said all that to say this...

What are you looking for in your purchase? Something comfortable on the streets, that'll turn some heads and haul a** stop-light to stop-light? Or something that's crisper, and probably more at home on some curvy back roads? Does the coupe body-style the M3 offers mean anything to you? How about a Manual Transmission? Will you need all the fancy gadgets? And something in my head says that in 10 years, you'll still be in love with your M3, (and so will your friends and others.) I don't know if that would still be the case with a Lexus, of any kind...:eeps:
 
#53 ·
+1

I'd buy a C63 in a heartbeat over an IS-F or an automatic M3. However, the M3 6MT is tops. Second place would be an S4 6MT.

- Mike
 
#55 ·
The C63 is lovely is you want a modern throw-back to late 60s muscle cars. The thing goes like stink in a straight line but that is about it...

The ISF, well, is a gamble. Toyota has not made anything sporting in terms of production cars for over a decade until recently. Add the fact that the thing looks goofy and the transmission sucks and I will pass.

Not sure I would compare the S4 to the M3...not very fair. The S4 is a great car, but an M3 it is not...
 
#60 · (Edited)
the c63 is lovely is you want a modern throw-back to late 60s muscle cars. The thing goes like stink in a straight line but that is about it...

The isf, well, is a gamble. Toyota has not made anything sporting in terms of production cars for over a decade until recently. Add the fact that the thing looks goofy and the transmission sucks and i will pass.

Not sure i would compare the s4 to the m3...not very fair. The s4 is a great car, but an m3 it is not...
+2 ( as to the S4...and Audi has horrible reliability, from what I have heard from others....?)
 
#62 ·
Obviously, forum members here are going to be biased. Nothing wrong with a Lexus, dependable, reliable and I'm guessing, no where near the fun of driving an M3. Personally, I own a Z4 Roadster but just test drove a brand new M3 for the first time a couple days ago. While the M3 is faster, my Roadster is more fun to drive and handles better; either car will be markedly more fun than driving a Lexus. If you don't mind driving a car with an automatic transmission. and you also don't mind never experiencing "BMW Joy," then knock yourself out. If you trade vodka for warm milk, then you know you got big troubles! Good luck with your decision, Faith.
 
#63 ·
Obviously, forum members here are going to be biased. Nothing wrong with a Lexus, dependable, reliable and I'm guessing, no where near the fun of driving an M3. Personally, I own a Z4 Roadster but just test drove a brand new M3 for the first time a couple days ago. While the M3 is faster, my Roadster is more fun to drive and handles better; either car will be markedly more fun than driving a Lexus.
This - objectively speaking - isn't true. The IS-F is a lot faster than your Z4 around some corners and in a straight line. The Z4 is not a car that's made for handling. It's a roadster. It doesn't handle badly, but without even a limited slip differential, it's not in the same league as the M3.

IMO, buying a M3 only makes sense if you can appreciate the car for what it is because you're spending a lot of money on it. It's not a roadster; nothing about it is built with just touring in mind. Maybe I misread your post, but I can tell you that comparing the Z4 and M3 in terms of handling does not make any sense - in the same way that comparing a 328i to an M3 also doesn't make sense. Very different cars for different purposes.
 
#71 ·
Therein lays the problem, in making bold statements without any first hand experience! :eek:
 
#72 ·
>>Therein lays the problem, in making bold statements without any first hand experience!<<

I don't see it as a "problem" at all, as I'm perfectly willing to trust the experience of scores of full-time professional testers. Hell, I didn't test-drive my M3 before I bought it, either; I just read everything I could on it vs. the competition and made my decision.
 
#73 · (Edited)
I'll do you one better. I test drove an M3 only once for about 10 minutes over a year ago. A used 2008 with 34k miles. I was not very impressed as I recall. I bought one last month. Now I'm impressed. VERY.
Some publications give you an excellent feel for cars that you haven't driven. But ultimately there's no replacement for driving.
 
#74 ·
Gentlemen,

If I may add one other thought . . . When we like an object or a person, it is sometimes difficult to understand why others don't feel like we do. There is a tendency to take our preferences as"facts" and disregard others' points of view. Here's what went into my decision-making process for my car: Z3s and Z4s always caught my eye and if I'm really honest, engendered a bit of envy. When I test drove my Z4, it had everything I wanted: a sporty feel, manual transmission, a convertible top and the fine BMW reputation. I never even considered a Porsche. Speaking strictly for me, Porsches did nothing for me (although I have no doubt they're fine cars). I needed something to get me to and from my office and that would be fun to drive on weekends. We bring the sum total of our likes and dislikes to our decisions, and they are a unique synthesis of our emotions and logic. We all don't have to think alike or we'd all be driving the same car, but we do need to respect other's preferences. IMHO. Warm regards, Faith
 
#78 ·
OK...this is a bit ridiculous.

I had an 06 Z4 3.0si and if that is the vehicle in question...good god...this is not even a fair comparison. The M3 is lightyears better in terms of handling limits, balance, confidence etc. And that is after I got rid of a crappy runflats and put on a decent set of summer tires.

If we are talking about the M Roadster, then that is a bit different as that car was a ton of fun to drive in general and was much sharper in terms of handling versus the non-M.
 
#79 ·
I do not recall Any published review giving the Lexus tops over the M3 in any category maybe other than quiet Interior.
I am a former Lexus owner and loved my GS400 but that was the 98 model considered to be the best sports sedan they built. All cars since that model save the ISF are simply buttery soft.

Sent from my EPIC4G powered by Android
 
#81 ·
#82 ·
Yeah, although the E89 Z4's are great cars they just lack the aesthetics in my opinion that the E85's had. Sure it might grow on people like me over time a bit but... For me personally regarding the original post I would go for the M3 vs the Lexus but only because of my passion and desire for the M car history. It will be a win win for you regardless but German cars always had a way of winning me over (Porsche is doing a great job right now). Let us know what you decided in the end and show pictures!
 
#87 ·
Thanks everyone...been away from Vegas, on vacation in NYC & Long Island, visiting family and touring New England.

I agree, have ALWAYS loved German cars...
and yes, Porsche is evidently doing a fantastic job, because it is somehow, in 2011, regarded as the MOST "reliable" car made now???
I would get one (911 or Cayman) in a "heartbeat" if it had a backseat like the M3 ( the Panamera does nothing for me...).
I just read that the IS-F, in 2011 , had "caught" the M3 in EVERY way...on the track and off?
And, then reasoned that BMW's reliability has gotten "iffy" as of late...so why NOT Lexus?
Wish BMW had the reliability record of Lexus?
I do prefer the look and sound of the E9x M3 over the IS-F.
But my next purchase has to be "long-term"...or longer than most keep a car, including myself, in the past.
Remember, this would be my second M3...
...and I have high hopes that this car (one and ONLY NA V8 in "M3" history), could one day be a Barrett-Jackson "star'...returning most, if not ALL of the purchase price.
However, I do want to enjoy them, and not have it become a fricken "money pit".:)
 
#85 ·
The only problem with the C63 is that it does nothing else well except go like stink... If I am dropping that kind of coin, I want something that can do everything well.
 
#86 ·
With that said and the options discussed it's M3.
Lesser coin is the Nissan GT R
 
#93 ·
I was comparing these two vehicles myself. The Lexus, although being a semi-luxury vehicle, seemed very cheap to me when I drove it. I didn't like the ridiculous looking exhaust either. Cosmetically, the M dominates the ISF. You just need to drive both and you will know. The Lexus did have power but didn't handle at all like the M. Nothing beats that redline either!
 
#99 ·
After having a 335i for four years I was forced to buy a new car as my roof broke and the insurance company wrote it off. I drove the M3, the Rs5, the C63 and the ISF for two days each because I don't think you really get a feel for a car test driving for an hour or so.
The ISF felt better straight away so before giving each car back I went back to the Lexus dealer and drove the ISF again to get a good comparison. They are all great cars and all within my budget but I ended up buying the ISF because for everyday driving it was perfect but when I put it in M mode and use the paddles it is as exciting as the others.
Ps, I didn't even know the ISF existed until 4weeks ago.
 
#127 · (Edited)
I have owned both BMW and Lexus and that has not been my experience. My experience has only been with 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers but I have found the service and the dealer experience for both brands to be excellent.

As for the cars themselves I do not feel that my BMW is better engineered than my Lexus was. They were certainly different from each but I would not equate those differences to one being "better engineered" than the other.

My Lexus SC Coupe felt like it had been carved out of a solid block of steel and stayed that way for 130,000 miles. It was an excellent high speed cruiser, handled very well on the twisties and was far better than my BMW at dealing with poor road surfaces. The ergonomics were far superior and the controls were perfectly situated and easy to use. The quality of the leather and the interior in general was higher. As far as it being a "rebadged Toyota". that is exactly what it was as that particularly model was marketed in Japan as the Toyota Soarer. That fact did not bother me in the least.

My 335i also feels very solid but just does not feel as refined as the Lexus did. It has remained rattle free and is as quiet if not quieter than the Lexus (which was very quiet)

I don't have an issue with the interior other than that cheap contact paper looking stuff on the top of the dashboard. The placment of most of the controls is for the most part OK but placing the controls and the LED indicator for setting the seat pre-sets on the side of the seat cushion where they can't be seen is somewhere beyond stupid. I miss the power adjustable steering wheel that the Lexus had but that is a minor point.

The BMW is noticably quicker and feels more planted than the Lexus does. The steering feels very positive and the car is very responsive. The fly in the oinment is in the way the car handled poor surfaces with the RFTs and the stock dampers. It was not exactly confidence inspiring as the car was prone to becoming unsettled (and in some cases damaged) when it encountered a pot hole, construction plate or other road imperfection.

They were both what I would consider "drivers cars" but the BMW is more hard edged and better performing. I would characterize both as "drivers cars" but the BMW is noticably quicker and has higher limits. For my use of the car the difference in performance is probably academic as either car was capable at negotiatiing the roads that I regularly drive on at far higher speeds than I will ever travel them at and both had more than sufficient acceleration.

So after owning both brands I do not feel that BMWs are superior engineered cars to Lexus. In the case of the one of each that I owned they were both well engineered and each had good qualities that the other lacked but the BMW had what I consider to be a glaring flaw in engineering (the RFTs and the suspension) and the Lexus did not. At one point I reached the point with the BMW where due to the "pothole explosions" issue I found driving the car to be so unpleasant that I avoided driving it. I never felt that way about the Lexus. Now that that issue has been sorted out I find driving the 335i to be very enjoyable and look forwartd to taking it out for a weekend excursion.

All that being said I would very likely choose an M3 over an IS-F, particularly in light of the IS-F's harsh suspension, but at this point in time in spite of the fact that I (eventually) enjoyed both cars the reality is that it is unlikely that I will buy another Lexus or another BMW.
I traded in my 09 IS-F for an M3. The lexus was just not that good. It was unrefined and has many annoying features. The suspension was just awful and the touch nav was irritating. It looked and felt cheap.
Tremendous thread. Recently sold my impressive 08 IS-F after looking for a change. Leasing an M3 next week. Will post impressions soon.
Btw, 2012 IS-F is slated to have even further suspension and wheel upgrades. Nice to see Lexus continually evolve this car!
I think it' largely comes down to the proper maintenance. Surely Lexus has had, despite some recent recall attention, a great history of reliability. But I'm not sure you should entirely send you one way or another. I did very much enjoy Lexus for the past 12 years, leading up to my IS-F. They are very solid and the customer service out of this world, even replacing an engine for me that was out of warranty. They're that good. I'm scheduled to get my first BMW Monday, so I can't fairly compare. But even the ordering process of my car, hasn't been nearly as customer friendly as my dealings with Lexus. :( I'm hoping that will change.
Ok...all above have experience with Lexus or specifically, the IS-F.
No sense, comparing the pre-2011 IS-F to the M3. The chassis & ride sucked. It did not have the LSD.
To M3-4ME (above)..."leading up to my IS-F"...is this a 2011?
Does anyone own the 2011, or has had more than a "test-drive"...driving one for a few days/weeks?:thumbup:
Lexus poeple love to talk on how the M3 does not feel special or alive or fast, etc., etc. until
poened up, past 5,000rpm...but on the test drive, I found that the IS-F had a similar thing going??? It does not rev as high, but has this 2nd air intake or something, the slaesman was explaining, that opens up after certain rpm, and then the engine roars & comes alive, so to speak. Both cars feel kinda tame at low rpm & 'round town driving...so?:dunno:
But, for sure, the 2011/2012 IS-F is the only ONE to compare to a M3, previous to this year, not so good.

Anyone out there currently driving a 2011 IS-F that has owned a E9x M3?
 
#107 ·
Hi bimmerbabe69;
see that your OP had similar concerns as you can read in this thread, that I had.
Seems that there was a bit of interest in this comparison and the overall consensus is not surprising, being as this is a BMW M3 site.
But I can tell you for a fact...if it is maximum "wetness", or some kind of automotive orgasm you are after...the M3 will deliver. It will "pin you back" & deliver that heart pounding "thrust" you so desire;)

BTW, I am in Las Vegas too.:thumbup:
Did you STEAL my "69" handle?
Mine refers to the year I was 16.
I think yours refers to something entirely different and far more entertaining!:p
 
#110 ·
BTW, boys...now that i have decided on the M3 over the IS-F...
and having owned a regular 3 series...well, someone on another forum said the M3 is FAR better built, almost like custom hand built, compared to mass produced 328's & 335's, that the "M" division builds them seperatly, apart from the other cars and takes more care & special pride in the M's.
So they last longer and are less buggy...
Any truth to any of this?
 
#116 · (Edited)
YES...I would say so. I think there may be more pride of workmanship for the M3, better parts and I believe, not sure, the the M3 is built in a different shop than all other BMW's?
Your M3 should last longer and be less troublesome than other BMW models.:thumbup:

BTW, it was great meeting you in the casino the other day. You were funny, witty(on the game) , and struck me as quite intelligent. You definitely are one "hot" dish.
You are no longer a "blonde' as you 1st described?
You dark brown hair does look fantastic with your green eyes, and i would not have expected you were part Spanish, you looked mostly Asian to me?
Why are you "dealing"?
You could easily be a "supermodel;" .
 
#111 · (Edited)
I drove the '12 BMW M3 and the '12 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG on the track today back-to-back (both automatic transmissions) ***8212; just got home. While both are amazing vehicles, and the power of the MB was impressive, my nod goes to the BMW as it feels more "connected" with the driver. I still get chills with the high-revving V8 engine...

The IS-F is a distant third in my book.

- Mike
 
#120 ·
I traded in my 09 IS-F for an M3. The lexus was just not that good. It was unrefined and has many annoying features. The suspension was just awful and the touch nav was irritating. It looked and felt cheap.
 
#125 ·
Found 2 guys, thru casino friends & contacts...one w/2011 Lexus IS-F...and another w/2011 BMW E90 M3 DCT.
Both, lightly "track" the cars and both wanted to check each others out and LET ME do it, too!
We would have went to the LV motor Speedway on public track day...but i think they have been canceled due to this weekends tragic race accident( R.I.P. Dan Wheldon...)
Maybe in some time?
 
#129 ·
In that group, driver matters more than car. But still, I'd take EITHER Bimmer over the Toyota (uh, Lexus). Might be a different calculation when the super special S65B40 is gone ... but for now, no comparison.
 
#132 ·
Also,since "long-term reliability is a huge factor for me (10 yrs. +)...they advised to get the IS-F as Lexus "hands down" has BMW beat for LONG TERM reliability. Far less electronic issues and much better service & customer support???
Said Toyota/Lexus has built brand on this fact
I wonder how the Toyota and Lexus fans account for the massive recalls and government safety warning issues in their calculation.

The Toyota quality idea doesn't match up to the current reality.

From what I've seen, Lexus paint is smoother though; not sure BMW's environment friendly process can match up in appearance.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Bimmer
 
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