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X5 xDrive35d catastrophic engine failure

58K views 161 replies 21 participants last post by  ard 
#1 ·
Took delivery of an X5 diesel in early May and until yesterday, it's been the best vehicle I've ever parked in my garage. We were within 65 miles of home after a 2,500 mile trip to Colorado when a rhythmic knocking started. It got progressively louder over the course of a few minutes and ended with a bang and sudden jerking. It felt as if we had hit something, so we turned around, fully expecting to see chunks of mechanical debris flying out behind the vehicle. No debris or drama. The engine had stopped running, so we coasted into the parking lot of an abandoned towing company along US Highway 287 just outside Decatur, TX. At this point, it wasn't clear what broke. Attempts to restart the engine failed and resulted in the illumination of a yellow warning indicator on the dash, a gear icon with an exclamation point in the middle. We called up BMW Roadside Assistance using the SOS button and they called for a tow. The driver took us and the X5 to our original Arlington dealership. It was after hours, so we left the key in the night drop with a note and a friend drove us home to Dallas. After 24 hours, it's still unclear what happened. There are no visible signs of damage on the exterior or underneath. When they connected the vehicle to electronic test equipment today, nothing looked out of the ordinary, probably because BMW doesn't include an "engine shredded" fault indicator in the diagnostic programs. The technician finally used a small camera to peek inside where he found metal fragments in the oil and a hole in the engine block. I don't have any more details about the damage, nor do I know how they'll fix it. Funny thing... It was no more than an hour before the Big Bang when I had made a comment about how reliable the X5 had been over the past six months and 13K miles, and that it had passed the Lemon Test by completing its third major cross-country road trip. Talk about a jinx!
 

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#47 ·
The local dealer has been very diplomatic, choosing their words and questions carefully. They've never said anything accusatory, but I suspect their first impression was that we had done something to mess things up.

My understanding is that the fuel was one of the first things tested. It checked out fine.

Another question they posed: Had the vehicle been driven through high water or submerged? (No.) They said it didn't appear any water had made its way into the engine. Sounds like they just wanted to hear a corroborating answer.

We were also asked if any work had been done, presumably implying some sort of software or firmware modification. Subsequent electronic diagnostics confirmed that nothing unusual had been done to any engine programs.

I don't know how rigorous the local tests were compared to what can be done elsewhere, but BMW seems to be satisfied that the failure wasn't in the customer's control.

Truth be told, I have opened the hood only once since taking possession. I was underwhelmed. Nothing fun to look at, really. My involvement has been pretty much limited to driving, washing, applying Zaino products and refueling.

Speaking of refueling, the fuel efficiency is better than I had expected (and improves with age). Before the Event occurred last Sunday, the vehicle was getting 28.6 mpg on average for the entire road trip. At one point during a long descent off a mountain pass, she enthusiastically reported a total estimated range of 847 miles (141 driven + 706 range to empty). A bit optimistic, but I like her attitude.
 

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#49 ·
Nothing fun to look at, really.
Yeah, ever since the manufacturers discover it was easier and cheaper to just make a piece of plastic to cover the engine, looking in the engine compartment has lost a lot of appeal, since form no longer has anything to do with function.

It was a lot more visually appealing years ago when valve covers, air cleaners, intake manifolds, and the other parts were actually visible. Nowadays the styling guys can make it look like a flux capacitor, a big transformers toy, or, for that matter, it could have a big picture of the BMW CEO lighting cigars with 50 dollar bills!

But I'm sure it is a lot cheaper than what they used to do to paint an polish valve covers and air cleaners.
 
#48 ·
Jerry-
thanks for the update. glad to hear they are being cooperative so far.

a few oil questions:
did you ever see an oil warning message of any kind? Does your x5d have a dipstick? Did you ever check the oil level, or is that checked by the computer at every start up which notifies the driver? Did you ever need to add oil? Had the oil been changed yet?
 
#50 ·
a few oil questions:
did you ever see an oil warning message of any kind? Does your x5d have a dipstick? Did you ever check the oil level, or is that checked by the computer at every start up which notifies the driver? Did you ever need to add oil? Had the oil been changed yet?
I don't think there's a dipstick but I could be mistaken. No surprise considering the number of times I've opened the hood. The owner's manual refers only to an electronic oil level check like my e90 330i. No oil warning indicator ever appeared and I was never prompted to add oil. An oil change was performed on August 21 at 9305 miles.

In the middle of all the commotion, while the vehicle was making all that rhythmic racket, we used the iDrive to perform a system check. All I remember was a list of items with green labels showing all systems OK. Made me want to ask her, "No problem? Are you sure? Then what the hell is all that noise?!"

As far as the internal systems were concerned, everthing was fine despite the loud banging coming from underneath. Actually sounded like something came loose in the exhaust system.

The yellow gear/exclamation point indicator only appeared when I tried to start the engine after the Big Bang and after coasting to a stop.

No, the only warning indicator I've ever seen was a strange "Incorrect Exhaust Fluid" message. I say strange because I was expecting to see something more along the lines of "Exhaust Fluid Low," not incorrect. I figure maybe something got lost in translation, surprising considering how persnickety BMW is.

The appearance of the "Incorrect Exhaust Fluid" message is what prompted me to call for a regular oil service. I had actually expected the first oil change to occur after more miles, like 330i.
 
#61 · (Edited)
From the company's site:

"Premium diesel fuel can vary greatly. The quality and protective characteristics depend on the additives blended into the fuel after it comes out of the pipeline."

I wonder what additive package they are using to achieve these characteristics...

Well either way you need to be sure you are running high e.g. 51 or close to it cetane diesel in you bimmer, whether you achieve it via commercially available additives or additives that the fuel company uses to ensure long term performance and reliability.:thumbup:

Too bad their stations are only in MO and AR or I might have to schedule a diesel tasting for my X5:drink:

Here's a link to probably more than you wanted to know about diesel.

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/documents/Diesel_Fuel_Tech_Review.pdf
 
#64 ·
this depends on the concentration. There is less than a 1% reduction of energy content with B5, and <2% hit with B20. you'll probably notice the difference with B20, but anything up to B5 is pretty much a wash because of minor cetane and major lubricity improvements.
 
#65 ·
Bio beware

Biodiesel also increases the amount of NOx at the tailpipe. There is no experience with SCR based engines from a long term standpoint on how biodiesel may effect the PDF and SCR catalysts.

Engine manufacturers certify the engines on EPA ULSD fuel. No biodiesel. I know that the Biodiesel Board puts out a bunch of data that the bio portion of diesel can only help the engine. But at the end of the day, it's the engine OEMs that have to certify, warrant, and keep customers happy.

IMHO. I won't go out of my way to find biodiesel to put into the X5. I won't shy away of using biodiesel if its at a pump when I need fuel. Just like purchasing gasoline. If you go to an off brand station, that advertised cheap fuel, beware of the risks. High Pressure Common Rail engines aren't like the engines of 30 years ago. You can't just put anything in the tank and expect good results. Water is the biggest key.

And if anyone that buys an X5 and puts in home made bio fuel ..... you should be banned from owning any performance vehicle !!!
 
#66 ·
...
Engine manufacturers certify the engines on EPA ULSD fuel. No biodiesel. I know that the Biodiesel Board puts out a bunch of data that the bio portion of diesel can only help the engine. But at the end of the day, it's the engine OEMs that have to certify, warrant, and keep customers happy. ...
and the 2009 X5 manual sez:
The percentage of biodiesel in the fuel must not exceed 5%, referred to as B5.
so biodiesel is approved by BMW as an additive, agreed?
 
#75 ·
Is that remanufactured unit for the 50 state US diesels? Jerry, if it were me I would not accept a reman unit to replace the blown engine, I would insist on a brand new crate engine from the factory. Actually, I would insist on a brand new car due to the perceived diminished value of installing a replacement engine. Just my opinion.
 
#77 · (Edited)
Is that remanufactured unit for the 50 state US diesels? ....
I don't know. I was just trying to give the OP an idea of what a re-manufactured short engine might cost if he were to buy one. Of course a new short engine would cost more.

FWIW I agree with the sentiment that the OP should at a minimum demand a new short engine. And if it were me, I'd be looking to do an immediate AS IS trade in on a new 35d. I wouldn't expect an even swap because I had the use of the 2009 35d for several months. OTOH I would not expect to take the "new car bath" twice in one year either.

Funf Dreisig
 
#90 ·
What's your problem... Ace.............. we have a nice friendly board here, and once in a while some Jerk comes in and thinks he knows more than others......and that would be d Geek.... I don't know why you're on this board, since your an avid TDI geek, but for the vast majority on this board that have never driven a diesel, nor owned one, I think its a great way to learn about what to expect when they spend upwards of $60K on a new vehicle.

For those that aren't as smart as dGeek. The reason the federal mandate on ULSD with 15ppm of sulfur is to allow the use of a diesel particulate filter to eliminate the PM content of the exhaust. If you use diesel fuel with higher concentrations, you'll poison the diesel oxidation catalyst, and ruin the exhaust system. A hefty, non warrantable repair. You can decide to use off-hwy fuel if you have access to a fuel tank on a farm or construction site. This fuel is dyed red to identify it as being 3,000 ppm, and exempt from federal hwy taxes. It will ruin your exhaust system, and if you get caught using it as an automotive fuel, there are big fines to pay. And if you only use it once, the red dye will linger in the fuel tank and continue to turn the fuel red for some time. You can use ULSD in vehicles older than 2006 without any issues.

Another issue to concern yourself with, is the use of Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). This is a solution of 32.5% Urea with distilled water that while in solution, will freeze and thaw at the same rates, making it usefull in all climates in North America. The EPA granted the use of DEF in the SCR portion in the exhaust to control NOx to near zero levels. If you choose to home brew your own DEF and use in your $60K vehicle to save a penny or too, beware that if you're out of concentration, or if you use tap water, you'll build up scale in the DEF doser, and cause expensive repairs as well. I believe the DEF tanks on the X5 approach 6 gallons total. The ratio of DEF to diesel fuel is 2 - 3 % on heavy trucks, and likely less than that on an X5.

So, the EPA begain the journey to reduce NOx and PM back in the 1970's, and 2010 is the big hurdle for on-hwy trucks. Fortunately for us that are awaiting X5 35d, the path to ULSD did indeed begin in April of 2006, when the east coast and southern refineries stoped refining 500 ppm fuel, and began to produce 15 ppm ULSD #1 diesel (also known as Kerosene). The drawback of 15 ppm is the lubricity that sulfur provided to fuel, and all suppliers add a lubricity additive, not at the refinery, but at the local bulk fuel rack in the area that services the fuel stations in each major depot.

The long and short of it, just so d Geek understands it all, is that you shouldn't be afraid to purchase ULSD at any truckstop on a US interstate, or at your local Shell or Mobil station in your neighborhood. If you choose to go the biodiesel route, a B2 to B5 blend is probably nothing to worry about, as long as you're buying from a quality supplier. You'll pay a premium for biodiesel, and I'm not convinced that spending and extra 20 - 30 cents will get your much in the way of lower emissions or less dependence on foreign oil.

Hope this helps. Not that it matters, but I've been in the diesel business for over 30 years, and live this stuff every day.
 
#94 ·
Update: Nothing juicy to report. Playing the waiting game while BMW ships a new engine from Germany.

To recap, it would appear the failure started in and was isolated to the engine but no one has confirmed this theory.

What I've observed:

  • Loud rhythmic noises from underneath while driving at highway speeds, increasing in volume over the course of a few minutes, culminating in a significant bang and sharp jolt. It felt as if the vehicle had hit something but no collision occurred and no parts sprayed onto the highway. Engine stopped running and I coasted off road into a parking lot. Unable to restart.
  • No leaks.
  • No broken, dangling parts underneath.
  • Prior to event - No warning lights.
  • During event - No warning lights. All fluid levels showed normal with green OK labels on the nav screen.
  • After event - Yellow warning indicator (gear icon with exclamation point) showed up on dash panel when attempting to start engine.

What I've done to modify the vehicle:

  • No tuning
  • No special hardware
  • Essentially... nothing. As suggested by Funf Dreisig, I'm pretty sure the vehicle growled at me when I opened the hood a few months ago, so I left things alone in there.

Fuel used:

  • ULSD
  • No special additives

What I've been told by the service dept:

  • Electronic diagnostics showed conflicting values.
  • Fuel tested OK. Nothing unusual found.
  • No signs of water in places where water shouldn't be.
  • A camera was used to look inside engine where pieces of metal were found in the oil. Camera also revealed a hole in the block.
  • A new engine will be shipped from Germany and installed. This will take three to four weeks.
  • If there are ancillary problems, we won't know of them until the new engine is in place.

My unanswered questions include:

  1. Did an engine component cause the failure? And if so...
  2. Was the failure isolated? Or did the abrupt engine stop damage the transmission? I wish I had the specific engineering/mechanical knowledge to answer this one. Or...
  3. Did a transmission problem cause the engine to fail?

The proposed resolution is to install a brand new engine. I think I'm OK with this as long as nothing else was affected. If the scope of the problem grows to include the transmission, it's probably time to replace the vehicle. But this is all speculation.

We've been treated well so far and have the use of a relatively new X5 while we're waiting on the replacement engine to arrive. The loaner is a bare bones 30i with leatherette and without all the gadgets, but it's still an X5. I suppose I could whine and complain but I'd rather save my breath. I might need it later.

At this point, I'm trusting they will be fair and reasonable. BMW and this dealership have never given me a reason to believe otherwise. Hope I'm not being naive.
 
#95 ·
Hi Jerry-

Thanks for the thorough update.

So some quick comments:

1. I suspect that both new and remanufactured engines ship from Germany. Just FYI. I am actually not as concerned as others may be about a 'reman' that comes out of a BMW plant, but if you are, make sure you know what you are getting. The dealer may be shorthanding it, but maybe not.

2. I would (and I do/did, every time I have a dealer visit for warranty work) insist on a copy of every single document in my service record- all the juicy stuff that is usually stapled to the work order packet and filed away or copied to BMWNA. They will have you sign some cover sheet, and you get a ridiculously short "official" record .... but you want the entire record (well, I do). I want the DME print outs, everything. I simply say, sweet as pie to the gal processing the paper. "Could I just get a copy of all this before I sign for it?". I've never been refused. Think of it like medical records- it is your car, you have a right to it. If issues come up later with tranny, etc, your having the work history might be invaluable...

GL

A
 
#96 ·
Hi Jerry-

Thanks for the thorough update.

So some quick comments:

1. I suspect that both new and remanufactured engines ship from Germany. Just FYI. I am actually not as concerned as others may be about a 'reman' that comes out of a BMW plant, but if you are, make sure you know what you are getting. The dealer may be shorthanding it, but maybe not.

2. I would (and I do/did, every time I have a dealer visit for warranty work) insist on a copy of every single document in my service record- all the juicy stuff that is usually stapled to the work order packet and filed away or copied to BMWNA. They will have you sign some cover sheet, and you get a ridiculously short "official" record .... but you want the entire record (well, I do). I want the DME print outs, everything. I simply say, sweet as pie to the gal processing the paper. "Could I just get a copy of all this before I sign for it?". I've never been refused. Think of it like medical records- it is your car, you have a right to it. If issues come up later with tranny, etc, your having the work history might be invaluable...

GL

A
+1 here's to your new engine :beerchug:
 
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