What are YOU thinking – Questions for CA’s/Sponsors - Page 2 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Buyers Guide - Dealers, resources, pricing, tips and trick > Ask-A-BMW-Dealer

Ask-A-BMW-Dealer
Talk to our team of BMW Client Advisors from supporting BMW dealerships. Get all of your BMW pricing, ordering, buying, financing, and leasing questions answered here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 06-16-2017, 08:34 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Seattle and Snoqualmie Washington
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,029
Mein Auto: 2017 X3 35i
Well, I guess I'm the only one chiming in (with Ty's one exception). What that means is it's a focus group of one and statistically not relevant at all!

Rbruno93: "Hairs on the neck.."

My response when someone asks me to do a "fair deal" is, "Fantastic. A fair deal is you getting the the BMW you love at a good price and us making some money doing it. Sounds fair to me."

It's the us making money part that doesn't usually translate.

Thus back to my previous point:
  • I'm paid on commission, so I start out trying to make one

I don't know what else to say about that. The client has a perception of fair that is opposed to the salesperson. It's the negotiation that makes it happen.

Frankly, if you walked in and said "I want $500 over invoice less incentives and buy rate, and that's a fair deal to me," depending on the car, I'd have to say no, that's not a fair deal.

~~~~~~

You have to bear in mind that this is a purchase you do once every 3+ years, maybe every 2 years if you overlap a couple cars.

Sales people do this hundreds of times a year. Maybe over a thousand for the top people at big stores. Now I'm talking about negotiations, not closes, of course.

We have seen it all, really, yet we keep at it.

As a salesperson, you know the point that you've dropped to your mini commission, and at that point, you hope that the desk will get you the deal. Cuz it's up to them at that point.

But holding gross is what makes it a living, not a job.

It's how we pay the bills, put kids through college, donate to the church or charity, help parents with their senior living, etc.

It's really not a game, and we're really not playing one.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-16-2017, 09:33 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, Edgewater (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,516
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
There are several posts in this thread that just don't pass the smell test.....just sayin'. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who's had this thought.
__________________

Present - '06 E90 330i sport; Past - '04 E46 ZHP, '00 E46 328i
www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:52 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Seattle and Snoqualmie Washington
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,029
Mein Auto: 2017 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
There are several posts in this thread that just don't pass the smell test.....just sayin'. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who's had this thought.
Not sure what you mean ....
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-17-2017, 03:46 AM
Technic's Avatar
Technic Technic is offline
OEM Audio PnP Integration
Location: Florida
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,686
Mein Auto: 2017 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
there are several posts in this thread that just don't pass the smell test.....just sayin'. i have a feeling i'm not the only one who's had this thought.
+2
__________________

BMW OEM Audio PnP integration
www.TechnicPnP.com
TechnicPnP@Hotmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:05 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 5,725
Mein Auto: 435 Grand Coupe MSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Not sure what you mean ....
Im going to take a stab at reading between the lines and say that its unlikely that TT and Technic are talking about anything you (or Ty) said. This thread contains a bunch of consumer / dealer interaction stories so maybe they dont believe all of them?

I can tell you, in my case, it was 100% true. I am also not saying this happens everywhere (I am not trying to say that, if thats the impression anyone got). I only mentioned it because of the "well dressed man / tattered clothes" part of the story, and that struck a nerve with me when I read it.
__________________
2016 435 Grand Coupe Estoril Blue MSport |Hex. EB Trim-Blk. Dakota | MSoort | Technology | Drivers Asst. | Drivers Assist+|Lighting |Track Pack W/ 442 Wheels |Heated Frnt Seats | Smartphone Integration | HK Stereo (His)

2016 X5 XDrive35d Space Grey |Blk Dakota W/ Fineline Oak | MSport | Lighting Pack | Premium Pack | Drivers Assist | Drivers Assist + | ACC W Stop N Go | 20" Wheels| Smartphone Integration | Multi Contour Seats | HK Stereo (hers)

BMW CCA #477341
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:23 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,434
Mein Auto: 540i; 428 GC; Twin X1's
jjrandorin has it right. The relationship has to go both ways. I wonder how many folks here bother to get to know the CA? What his hobbies are, how old his kids are, what he did before he started selling BMW, etc.

The CA I leased my last 6 BMW's from just moved to Florida to be near his aging parents. I miss him, especially since I now have to date / schmooze his replacement. A whole new learning curve.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________


Current BMW's:
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2015 X1 35i xDrive

Prior BMW's
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:31 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 467
Mein Auto: MINI Clubman S All4
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Well, I guess I'm the only one chiming in (with Ty's one exception). What that means is it's a focus group of one and statistically not relevant at all!

Rbruno93: "Hairs on the neck.."

My response when someone asks me to do a "fair deal" is, "Fantastic. A fair deal is you getting the the BMW you love at a good price and us making some money doing it. Sounds fair to me."

It's the us making money part that doesn't usually translate.

Thus back to my previous point:
  • I'm paid on commission, so I start out trying to make one

I don't know what else to say about that. The client has a perception of fair that is opposed to the salesperson. It's the negotiation that makes it happen.

Frankly, if you walked in and said "I want $500 over invoice less incentives and buy rate, and that's a fair deal to me," depending on the car, I'd have to say no, that's not a fair deal.

~~~~~~

You have to bear in mind that this is a purchase you do once every 3+ years, maybe every 2 years if you overlap a couple cars.

Sales people do this hundreds of times a year. Maybe over a thousand for the top people at big stores. Now I'm talking about negotiations, not closes, of course.

We have seen it all, really, yet we keep at it.

As a salesperson, you know the point that you've dropped to your mini commission, and at that point, you hope that the desk will get you the deal. Cuz it's up to them at that point.

But holding gross is what makes it a living, not a job.

It's how we pay the bills, put kids through college, donate to the church or charity, help parents with their senior living, etc.

It's really not a game, and we're really not playing one.
Thanks for the candor, Mr. Brown.

After reading your posts plus Ty's, something just clicked for me. I've been thinking about some of the back-of-invoice/below wholesale book deals I've received over the years and trying to square my excellent experiences at several different dealers with the not-so-positive experiences others have discussed. And I've been thinking about how little of the hold-the-gross pressure I felt in the better deals -- one was handed to me on a platter and was better than I would have ever asked for.

I never had to fight that hard for good deals -- just had to be clear, courteous, tenacious, and attentive, and of course, I had to have my end in good order going in -- not bringing credit issues or negative equity or bogus objections. But the common factor seems to be that, if an exceptional deal is desired, it has to be on a car that the dealer is happy to move at an exceptional price or terms for any number of reasons.

I think timing ( end of month/end of sales period) is a big part, flexibility, and, I still believe, since I heard it many times from salespeople, that attitude and readiness to get the deal done plays a role.

I now understand more fully than ever, in order for some of us to get exceptional deals, most people will, of necessity, be offered less exceptional deals. Car sales people have to balance it all out and, in fact, cannot make a good living if all they do is mini deals, regardless of the volume of mini deals -- there just isn't enough in it.

What I also need to share is that, like other participants in the 'Fest, I have been exposed to very controlled steps-to-the-sale dealers and, while I've found it interesting and amusing to watch the process, I must say that, at some level, it is insulting to see dealers' clumsy (or at times sophisticated) attempts to manipulate and control the sales situation when it has not been at all necessary. On one occasion I was tempted to stop the process and ask the poor guy why he felt he needed to do what he was doing, but I just thanked him for his time and left instead.

I understand that, if one deals with enough prospects in a year, one sees it all. And I know from all I've read that the car buying public, taken as a whole, is not particularly sophisticated or savvy, and often is not well prepared to enter into a serious, forthright sales negotiation -- some customers play games, bring in their issues, and often get in their own way. I get it. But what I have never been able to understand is why, once I've made it clear as to who I am and what I'm seeking, it has often been so difficult to get everyone to sit down at the same table and finish a deal! It always wants to be back and forth with The Desk over there and the salesperson running back and forth and then the F&I. Drives me nuts. Especially when I have clearly asked if we can all sit down together and piece together the deal. I know it's possible because it has happened and I've heard a MANAGER comment, "Well thank you for making this so easy for all of us."

Jaded may be the right word -- on both sides as you say.

So we come back to one of the questions in the OP on this thread: What steps should a customer take to snag the best deal? How should we prepare? How should we behave if the goal is a smooth process, great deal, and a great car?

Thanks.

Last edited by 1968BMW2800; 06-17-2017 at 09:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-17-2017, 07:34 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
East Coast Commuter
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,093
Mein Auto: M4/X6
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
jjrandorin has it right. The relationship has to go both ways. I wonder how many folks here bother to get to know the CA? What his hobbies are, how old his kids are, what he did before he started selling BMW, etc.

The CA I leased my last 6 BMW's from just moved to Florida to be near his aging parents. I miss him, especially since I now have to date / schmooze his replacement. A whole new learning curve.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app


Quack. Is your guy still selling BMW's? If so, where is he in Florida? I am always looking for contacts to add to my list of people that I call when I am looking for my next BMW.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app
__________________
~ 15 M4 (Mine)
~ 16 X6 (Hers)
- Previous BMW's - Way too many to list here (21)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:22 AM
ard ard is online now
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,873
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
.

So we come back to one of the questions in the OP on this thread: What steps should a customer take to snag the best deal? How should we prepare? How should we behave if the goal is a smooth proces, great deal, and a great car?
I mean, really?

After the thousands of posts, tens of thousands oof post here, and the back and forth since you joined...and the comments in the thread, still the same silly question?

The 'best deal' is entirely relative.

"Best deal today"

"Best deal today with this salesman and this manager"

"Best deal on a XYZ model this week"

"Best deal not driving over 50 miles this weekend"

It really is pretty easy, no? Know your numbers, know their numbers, be intelligent and communicative, and don't 'need' a deal.

I find asking SAs how they approach their professional endeavors to be mildly insulting, actually.
__________________
Keep it as simple as possible...but no simpler.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:45 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 467
Mein Auto: MINI Clubman S All4
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I mean, really?

I find asking SAs how they approach their professional endeavors to be mildly insulting, actually.
Yes, really.

This is ask a dealer. I'm trying to drill a little deeper -- we all know how to calculate invoice and we understand the role of right time/right place serendipity, and we know there's $ behind the curtain we can't see. You're right. WE KNOW.

Maybe I haven't asked correctly. I'm interested in learning what the salesperson sees and thinks when the next up stumbles in. I've been that next up. I know how I think I appear and sound and behave. I wanna know what they are seeing.

I certainly hope, as Mr. Poland said, that the CA's found this an interesting read. And I'm delighted some are willing to engage and respond.

I'm sorry that this is insulting to you. Didn't mean to insult anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-17-2017, 09:56 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 467
Mein Auto: MINI Clubman S All4
I want to add one more response to ard's comments. Once, when doing a training for a group of police officers, after we covered the main material, I paused and asked them if I could ask some questions about how they'd like citizens to behave during a traffic stop or a field interrogation. Not only were these cops not insulted, they opened up and told some amusing, and some very scary stories of encounters they had in the field. At the end, a crusty sergeant said to me that he appreciated my interest and he wished more citizens could understand that if they would do the dance properly, many of their encounters with police would go much better. For all parties.

Okay, make a long story shorter, not long after that session with those cops, I was pulled over 2 blocks from my home, at night, on St. Patrick's Day. I had rolled a stop sign. I did EVERYTHING just as the cops in the training session had suggested. The officer who pulled me over thanked me for my cooperation, told me to drive safely, and, less than 5 minutes after he pulled me over, I was on my way home without a ticket or written warning.

This is not to get into a discussion on policing or profiling, or the bad things cops sometimes do. It's just that when I enter someone else's world -- whether it's a car dealership or a doctor's office or the friggin' DMV, I want to know the rules of the game as viewed through the minds of those who do what they do every day. I'm just sayin'.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:33 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Seattle and Snoqualmie Washington
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,029
Mein Auto: 2017 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I find asking SAs how they approach their professional endeavors to be mildly insulting, actually.
To you or to us?

mjb
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-17-2017, 12:13 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, Edgewater (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,516
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Im going to take a stab at reading between the lines and say that its unlikely that TT and Technic are talking about anything you (or Ty) said. This thread contains a bunch of consumer / dealer interaction stories so maybe they dont believe all of them?

I can tell you, in my case, it was 100% true. I am also not saying this happens everywhere (I am not trying to say that, if thats the impression anyone got). I only mentioned it because of the "well dressed man / tattered clothes" part of the story, and that struck a nerve with me when I read it.
Smart man.
__________________

Present - '06 E90 330i sport; Past - '04 E46 ZHP, '00 E46 328i
www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-17-2017, 01:59 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,714
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
So we come back to one of the questions in the OP on this thread: What steps should a customer take to snag the best deal? How should we prepare? How should we behave if the goal is a smooth process, great deal, and a great car?
A great car is subjective, just assume all bimmers are great cars.

A smooth process is subjective, in general a few emails to check inventories/prices/incentives, and then 15-20 test drive, then 15-30 minutes of F&I is my typical experience.

A great deal is subjective, in general my goal is invoice before incentives(including hidden trunk money and such), plus $500-$1000 profit.

E.g. a recent deal of a friend was $9k off MSRP on 2017 340i(2-3 emails to check inventories) including all incentives and trunk money, car was available for 15-minute test drive next morning, and F&I was finished in another 15 minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-17-2017, 02:20 PM
ard ard is online now
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 15,873
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
To you or to us?

mjb
To you guys.

My personal opinion.
__________________
Keep it as simple as possible...but no simpler.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-18-2017, 04:36 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,434
Mein Auto: 540i; 428 GC; Twin X1's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Quack. Is your guy still selling BMW's? If so, where is he in Florida? I am always looking for contacts to add to my list of people that I call when I am looking for my next BMW.
Ed DeHority, formerly at BMW Peabody, now at Braman BMW. I'm not sure which Braman store he is at. Great guy: knows his BMW's, straight shooter, no BS (though obviously he will have to conform to watever culture the SM and GSM have establised). Late 50's, and I imagine it's a challenge rebuilding your book of clients from scratch at his age (though maybe there are so many snowbirds that it's easier in South Florida than elsewhere in the country).
__________________


Current BMW's:
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2015 X1 35i xDrive

Prior BMW's
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:15 PM
Rbruno93 Rbruno93 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: Maserati GTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Well, I guess I'm the only one chiming in (with Ty's one exception). What that means is it's a focus group of one and statistically not relevant at all!

Rbruno93: "Hairs on the neck.."

My response when someone asks me to do a "fair deal" is, "Fantastic. A fair deal is you getting the the BMW you love at a good price and us making some money doing it. Sounds fair to me."

It's the us making money part that doesn't usually translate.

Thus back to my previous point:
  • I'm paid on commission, so I start out trying to make one

I don't know what else to say about that. The client has a perception of fair that is opposed to the salesperson. It's the negotiation that makes it happen.

Frankly, if you walked in and said "I want $500 over invoice less incentives and buy rate, and that's a fair deal to me," depending on the car, I'd have to say no, that's not a fair deal.

~~~~~~

You have to bear in mind that this is a purchase you do once every 3+ years, maybe every 2 years if you overlap a couple cars.

Sales people do this hundreds of times a year. Maybe over a thousand for the top people at big stores. Now I'm talking about negotiations, not closes, of course.

We have seen it all, really, yet we keep at it.

As a salesperson, you know the point that you've dropped to your mini commission, and at that point, you hope that the desk will get you the deal. Cuz it's up to them at that point.

But holding gross is what makes it a living, not a job.

It's how we pay the bills, put kids through college, donate to the church or charity, help parents with their senior living, etc.

It's really not a game, and we're really not playing one.
Well the way I see it is; If the msrp of a car is $30,000 and lets say the lowest $ amount the dealer will let it go for is $27,000. Honestly how much of a difference is it in commission for that $3,000? I always get different answers from different salesman, but my point is; how can you justify charging the customer another $3,000 + tax + interest for however long, just for you to get that extra few hundred dollars (if that) you will get on that deal by maximizing profits? If your whole point is you need your commission to pay bills, put kids through college, donate, etc etc etc.. Why doesn't all that go through your mind for the person buying the car and why don't you try to get him/her the best possible deal? Because at the end of the day, the clueless person who doesn't know how to negotiate will lose a lot more than you would if you just gave him the best possible deal, a heck of a lot more. So What makes your money, more important than mine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
I want to add one more response to ard's comments. Once, when doing a training for a group of police officers, after we covered the main material, I paused and asked them if I could ask some questions about how they'd like citizens to behave during a traffic stop or a field interrogation. Not only were these cops not insulted, they opened up and told some amusing, and some very scary stories of encounters they had in the field. At the end, a crusty sergeant said to me that he appreciated my interest and he wished more citizens could understand that if they would do the dance properly, many of their encounters with police would go much better. For all parties.

Okay, make a long story shorter, not long after that session with those cops, I was pulled over 2 blocks from my home, at night, on St. Patrick's Day. I had rolled a stop sign. I did EVERYTHING just as the cops in the training session had suggested. The officer who pulled me over thanked me for my cooperation, told me to drive safely, and, less than 5 minutes after he pulled me over, I was on my way home without a ticket or written warning.

This is not to get into a discussion on policing or profiling, or the bad things cops sometimes do. It's just that when I enter someone else's world -- whether it's a car dealership or a doctor's office or the friggin' DMV, I want to know the rules of the game as viewed through the minds of those who do what they do every day. I'm just sayin'.
Can you share what that officer let you know? I could use some more pointers on how to get away with tickets
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:59 PM
AEMlude AEMlude is offline
Registered User
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: x5 40e
I have a question. How many of the readers of this forum walk into "insert store of your choice" and ask what their cost is for "insert product here"? Then demand to be sold the product at that cost. Not trying to start an argument, but let's be real. For everyone that is not a CA imagine, a potential client walking in to your construction, insurance, I.T. etc. firms and asking you to offer your services at cost.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:05 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 5,725
Mein Auto: 435 Grand Coupe MSport
nevermind... not getting into this anymore...
__________________
2016 435 Grand Coupe Estoril Blue MSport |Hex. EB Trim-Blk. Dakota | MSoort | Technology | Drivers Asst. | Drivers Assist+|Lighting |Track Pack W/ 442 Wheels |Heated Frnt Seats | Smartphone Integration | HK Stereo (His)

2016 X5 XDrive35d Space Grey |Blk Dakota W/ Fineline Oak | MSport | Lighting Pack | Premium Pack | Drivers Assist | Drivers Assist + | ACC W Stop N Go | 20" Wheels| Smartphone Integration | Multi Contour Seats | HK Stereo (hers)

BMW CCA #477341

Last edited by jjrandorin; 06-19-2017 at 03:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:10 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,434
Mein Auto: 540i; 428 GC; Twin X1's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbruno93 View Post
Well the way I see it is; If the msrp of a car is $30,000 and lets say the lowest $ amount the dealer will let it go for is $27,000. Honestly how much of a difference is it in commission for that $3,000? I always get different answers from different salesman, but my point is; how can you justify charging the customer another $3,000 + tax + interest for however long, just for you to get that extra few hundred dollars (if that) you will get on that deal by maximizing profits? If your whole point is you need your commission to pay bills, put kids through college, donate, etc etc etc.. Why doesn't all that go through your mind for the person buying the car and why don't you try to get him/her the best possible deal? Because at the end of the day, the clueless person who doesn't know how to negotiate will lose a lot more than you would if you just gave him the best possible deal, a heck of a lot more.
That business model has been tried before. There was a manufacturer that had strict no-haggle pricing in every dealership. Didn't work out very well for Saturn, so why would you think it would work better for BMW?

If I am willing to invest my own time in researching invoice, trunk money, money factors and the like, why don't I "deserve" to get a better deal than some schlubb who just walks in off the street feeling entitled to the best possible price because he is, well, entitled? If the clueless person has no interest in becoming clue-ful, why should a dealer reward him with a price he's done nothing to merit?

Let me guess: You voted for Bernie, right?
__________________


Current BMW's:
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2015 X1 35i xDrive

Prior BMW's
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:13 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Southern California
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 467
Mein Auto: MINI Clubman S All4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbruno93 View Post
Can you share what that officer let you know? I could use some more pointers on how to get away with tickets
Where to begin???

I have actually dissected the entire stop, step-by-step, for use in classes for violent perpetrators I taught many years ago. That, of course, is another story in itself. If given a choice, the guys in those classes would almost always make the wrong one.

But, the FIRST thing the officers in the training told me was a variation on ‘don’t miss the easy ones.’ Don’t roll a stop sign on St. Patrick’s Day night when every cop in America is looking for drunk drivers.

So I blew step one, for sure. But at least I wasn’t drunk – and, to be honest, I truly believe that unless I had flunked the ‘attitude test’ with the officer, since he was obviously focused on finding drunk drivers, there was a more than 50% chance I would have not been cited anyway. We will never know how much of the good outcome was due to my doing all the ‘right’ things vs. I wasn’t who the cop was looking for that night.

Here’s a quick list of things the officers suggested:

When you get lit up – when you see the red lights, slow down gently, signal with your blinker, and pull over as soon as it is possible and safe. If at night and there’s a streetlight overhead, pull over under the light and, if possible LEAVE ROOM for the officer to pull in behind you so he has a clear view and can use his light bar or side spotlight to fully illuminate your vehicle.

Turn on your interior lights as you are pulling over WITHOUT making sudden moves or bending downward.

Roll down the driver’s and front passenger window (if you have power windows) BEFORE the officer makes his approach.

Turn off the engine.

KEEP YOUR HANDS GRIPPING THE STEERING WHEEL – left hand at 10:00 and right hand at 2:00. DON’T MOVE YOUR HANDS UNLESS INSTRUCTED TO DO SO.

LET THE OFFICER SPEAK FIRST.

FOLLOW ALL COMMANDS – IF YOU ARE UNSURE WHAT TO DO, ASK.

If/when the officer asks for your license and/or registration, TELL THE OFFICER WHERE IT IS LOCATED BEFORE YOU REMOVE YOUR HANDS FROM THE WHEEL!! This is a biggie, as a sudden move of your hand to inside your coat or down toward a purse or briefcase will cause the officer to think ‘gun.’

So, in my case, I do the correct pullover. I turn on the interior light and roll down the front windows and grip the wheel, stare forward, and, quick as a cat, the officer’s head is half in my front passenger window and the first thing he says is, “Have you been drinking?” I say, “No, sir. I’m coming straight home from work.” Which is the TRUTH. ALWAYS ANSWER TRUTHFULLY and SAY WHAT'S REQUIRED TO MAKE A SATISFACTORY RESPONSE TO THE OFFICER’S SPECIFIC QUESTION.

He asks for my license. I do not make a move. As taught by the officers, I count silently ‘one one thousand,’ and then say, “Officer, my license is in my briefcase and when I open it you won’t be able to see my hands.”

The officer says something like, “Wait one moment please.” I do not move a muscle, my hands still at 10 and 2. In about two blinks the officer is on the driver’s side with his monster flashlight focused right on my briefcase which is located on the front passenger seat.

What I know is, below my line of sight, the officer has his right hand gripping his sidearm and his left hand has got the flashlight almost in my car, inches from my face, aimed at my briefcase.

The officer tells me to go ahead and get my license. I keep my left hand on the steering wheel and, in slow motion, I move my right hand and unlatch my briefcase, gently lift the lid, and like Vanna White, tip my right hand toward my wallet, which is on top of all my papers and stuff in the briefcase. The officer says something like, “Go ahead.”

I slowly retrieve my wallet and bring it up to the steering wheel, left hand never moving from 10:00 on the wheel. The officer tells me to remove my license. I say, “I’ll need both hands.” He says, “Go ahead, sir.” I hear that ‘sir’ and I’m thinking I’ve passed step one of the ‘attitude test.’

He checks my license, sees that the address is less than 2 blocks from where we are stopped and asks, “Is this your current address?” I say, “Yessir. Almost home.” He asks, “Where’s work.” I tell him. He asks me what kind of work I do. I tell him. He says, “I see you’re an organ donor.” I say, “My mom used to work in an ER and she talked a lot about getting organ donations.” He says, “You rolled that stop sign. You probably do it every night and that can cause an accident, especially when you’re so close to home after a long day at work.” I say, “Your right.”

He hands me back my license, never even asks to see my registration or proof of insurance, tells me to drive carefully and I say, “Thank you, sir. You have a safe shift out there.” He thanks me for my courtesy.

So the easy parts were my registration tag on my rear plate was current, my license was current, I had the donor tag on my license, I was dressed well, and I DIDN’T SPEAK UNTIL SPOKEN TO and I WAITED FOR THE OFFICER TO TELL ME WHY HE PULLED ME OVER.

There are a bunch of other subtle things, of course, but the main thing is passing the attitude test, cooperating, demonstrating that you are doing all you can to keep the encounter safe, efficient, respectful, and cooperative. And, of course, it helps to have no outstanding warrants, not to be driving a stolen vehicle, and not have booze on your breath on St. Patty’s Day. Don’t miss the easy ones!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:47 PM
stonex1's Avatar
stonex1 stonex1 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: BC, Canada
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,279
Mein Auto: 13' X1 35i
As to the OP's first post, I wonder if CA's would like me as a customer?

My mentality is to only walk into a dealership once. To test drive the car I'm interested in on the day I made an appointment online. (Through website or email)
I might do this at different manufacturers if I'm cross shopping, or maybe only once if there is only the one car I'm considering.

I walk in with my booklet which has my notes. Just things to remind me what I want to look at, or make notes on the drive, or have questions for the CA. I try to do as much homework as possible before the test drive.

After the test drive, I thank them for their time and leave. No other interaction.

If I decide I like it after the test drive, I will then make an offer from home over email, with a spreadsheet. A fair deal is typically 3-5% over invoice not including incentives in my neck of the woods.
(Depending on the vehicle of course, in other words... I'm not going to get $500 over invoice on an M4 GTS )

If the CA accepts my offer, I'll come in only a 2nd time to pick up the keys.
I bought my X1 never actually meeting my CA. He was off the days I did the test drive and delivery from an out of town dealer.

If the CA doesn't accept my offer, I'll email someone else at a different dealership.

Am I a PITA, or not? ...since I'll never sit across the desk from a salesperson.
__________________
2013 X1
MinGrey,Xenon,HK,PwrSeats,Sirius,XLine,Nav

Last edited by stonex1; 06-19-2017 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:49 PM
Rbruno93 Rbruno93 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: Maserati GTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEMlude View Post
I have a question. How many of the readers of this forum walk into "insert store of your choice" and ask what their cost is for "insert product here"? Then demand to be sold the product at that cost. Not trying to start an argument, but let's be real. For everyone that is not a CA imagine, a potential client walking in to your construction, insurance, I.T. etc. firms and asking you to offer your services at cost.
Well. A store/service buys for X, marks up Y, sells for Z. A dealership buys for X, gets Y returned, Marks up W, gets Z as a rebate, adds B in fees, subtracts C from total, gets another P rebate, sells for S, is my point made or should I continue making up random fees with letters? I'd much rather a dealer say hey this car cost us $60,000 and we're going to sell it for $70,000, that covers all of our costs. It works for every other business model in the world, but dealerships choose for whatever reason to make things up as they go along

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
That business model has been tried before. There was a manufacturer that had strict no-haggle pricing in every dealership. Didn't work out very well for Saturn, so why would you think it would work better for BMW?

If I am willing to invest my own time in researching invoice, trunk money, money factors and the like, why don't I "deserve" to get a better deal than some schlubb who just walks in off the street feeling entitled to the best possible price because he is, well, entitled? If the clueless person has no interest in becoming clue-ful, why should a dealer reward him with a price he's done nothing to merit?

Let me guess: You voted for Bernie, right?
What's entitlement have to do with anything? Do you walk into the grocery store haggling how much you should pay on tomatoes? Why is a car any different? I can tell you for a fact, that farmers sell for X, distributors mark up 30% and retailers mark up another 50-70%. So if you don't go into a grocery store trying to buy for Farmers price + profit then you're a bit of a hypocrite, no?
Not sure what politics have to do with it but I was for Ron Paul since '08, rooted for Rand Paul this election, but got stuck with Trump. Still better than Hillary.
But I believe you missed the entirety of my point. He was saying it's his commission and he needs it to live; if he expects me, the costumer, to care about that, shouldn't he care about the exact same thing for me?
It's just as annoying for us receiving a quote at X over sticker as it is for you guys receiving an offer X under invoice. The only difference is, you sell for X over sticker you get maybe 2% of that. I get screwed for the full portion. So again, if I should care about your kids going to college, shouldn't you care about mine?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Where to begin???

I have actually dissected the entire stop, step-by-step, for use in classes for violent perpetrators I taught many years ago. That, of course, is another story in itself. If given a choice, the guys in those classes would almost always make the wrong one.

But, the FIRST thing the officers in the training told me was a variation on ‘don’t miss the easy ones.’ Don’t roll a stop sign on St. Patrick’s Day night when every cop in America is looking for drunk drivers.

So I blew step one, for sure. But at least I wasn’t drunk – and, to be honest, I truly believe that unless I had flunked the ‘attitude test’ with the officer, since he was obviously focused on finding drunk drivers, there was a more than 50% chance I would have not been cited anyway. We will never know how much of the good outcome was due to my doing all the ‘right’ things vs. I wasn’t who the cop was looking for that night.

Here’s a quick list of things the officers suggested:

When you get lit up – when you see the red lights, slow down gently, signal with your blinker, and pull over as soon as it is possible and safe. If at night and there’s a streetlight overhead, pull over under the light and, if possible LEAVE ROOM for the officer to pull in behind you so he has a clear view and can use his light bar or side spotlight to fully illuminate your vehicle.

Turn on your interior lights as you are pulling over WITHOUT making sudden moves or bending downward.

Roll down the driver’s and front passenger window (if you have power windows) BEFORE the officer makes his approach.

Turn off the engine.

KEEP YOUR HANDS GRIPPING THE STEERING WHEEL – left hand at 10:00 and right hand at 2:00. DON’T MOVE YOUR HANDS UNLESS INSTRUCTED TO DO SO.

LET THE OFFICER SPEAK FIRST.

FOLLOW ALL COMMANDS – IF YOU ARE UNSURE WHAT TO DO, ASK.

If/when the officer asks for your license and/or registration, TELL THE OFFICER WHERE IT IS LOCATED BEFORE YOU REMOVE YOUR HANDS FROM THE WHEEL!! This is a biggie, as a sudden move of your hand to inside your coat or down toward a purse or briefcase will cause the officer to think ‘gun.’

So, in my case, I do the correct pullover. I turn on the interior light and roll down the front windows and grip the wheel, stare forward, and, quick as a cat, the officer’s head is half in my front passenger window and the first thing he says is, “Have you been drinking?” I say, “No, sir. I’m coming straight home from work.” Which is the TRUTH. ALWAYS ANSWER TRUTHFULLY and SAY WHAT'S REQUIRED TO MAKE A SATISFACTORY RESPONSE TO THE OFFICER’S SPECIFIC QUESTION.

He asks for my license. I do not make a move. As taught by the officers, I count silently ‘one one thousand,’ and then say, “Officer, my license is in my briefcase and when I open it you won’t be able to see my hands.”

The officer says something like, “Wait one moment please.” I do not move a muscle, my hands still at 10 and 2. In about two blinks the officer is on the driver’s side with his monster flashlight focused right on my briefcase which is located on the front passenger seat.

What I know is, below my line of sight, the officer has his right hand gripping his sidearm and his left hand has got the flashlight almost in my car, inches from my face, aimed at my briefcase.

The officer tells me to go ahead and get my license. I keep my left hand on the steering wheel and, in slow motion, I move my right hand and unlatch my briefcase, gently lift the lid, and like Vanna White, tip my right hand toward my wallet, which is on top of all my papers and stuff in the briefcase. The officer says something like, “Go ahead.”

I slowly retrieve my wallet and bring it up to the steering wheel, left hand never moving from 10:00 on the wheel. The officer tells me to remove my license. I say, “I’ll need both hands.” He says, “Go ahead, sir.” I hear that ‘sir’ and I’m thinking I’ve passed step one of the ‘attitude test.’

He checks my license, sees that the address is less than 2 blocks from where we are stopped and asks, “Is this your current address?” I say, “Yessir. Almost home.” He asks, “Where’s work.” I tell him. He asks me what kind of work I do. I tell him. He says, “I see you’re an organ donor.” I say, “My mom used to work in an ER and she talked a lot about getting organ donations.” He says, “You rolled that stop sign. You probably do it every night and that can cause an accident, especially when you’re so close to home after a long day at work.” I say, “Your right.”

He hands me back my license, never even asks to see my registration or proof of insurance, tells me to drive carefully and I say, “Thank you, sir. You have a safe shift out there.” He thanks me for my courtesy.

So the easy parts were my registration tag on my rear plate was current, my license was current, I had the donor tag on my license, I was dressed well, and I DIDN’T SPEAK UNTIL SPOKEN TO and I WAITED FOR THE OFFICER TO TELL ME WHY HE PULLED ME OVER.

There are a bunch of other subtle things, of course, but the main thing is passing the attitude test, cooperating, demonstrating that you are doing all you can to keep the encounter safe, efficient, respectful, and cooperative. And, of course, it helps to have no outstanding warrants, not to be driving a stolen vehicle, and not have booze on your breath on St. Patty’s Day. Don’t miss the easy ones!
Usually I do most of those except for the "I'm moving my hands to grab my wallet". I just try to be as polite and courteous as possible, yes sir no sir how's your night be safe etc etc.. 9/10 times I get a warning. But one night I figured hey, maybe I'll get a 10/10 warning rate if I just start saying where my wallet is and that I'm about to grab it. So he pulls over to my window, we do the usual courtesy dance and he finally asks for my id license and registration. I tell him the wallet is in my back pocket and I'm about to reach for it, he stops me there and say's that's unnecessary, this isn't fox 11 news in LA just give me the license, I don't need to know where everything is. I left that day with a no license plate ticket and he left without even wishing me a good night.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:34 PM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: Seattle and Snoqualmie Washington
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,029
Mein Auto: 2017 X3 35i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbruno93;10205910So [I
What makes your money, more important than mine?[/I]
Never said it was. My point was a specific and direct response to a post that calls deal negotiation "playing a game," and why it's not a game to most all salespeople.

We are a for profit business. I am on 100% commission. My job is to make gross profit as much as I can for the store and for my commission.

You do what you need to do to make sure your bills are paid, etc.

And you have all these forum friends advising you on the best deal. You don't need us to offer it up on a plate.

Caveat Emptor.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-19-2017, 04:49 PM
Rbruno93 Rbruno93 is offline
Registered User
Location: California
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 45
Mein Auto: Maserati GTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBrown62 View Post
Never said it was. My point was a specific and direct response to a post that calls deal negotiation "playing a game," and why it's not a game to most all salespeople.

We are a for profit business. I am on 100% commission. My job is to make gross profit as much as I can for the store and for my commission.

You do what you need to do to make sure your bills are paid, etc.

And you have all these forum friends advising you on the best deal. You don't need us to offer it up on a plate.

Caveat Emptor.
I hope you're not taking offense to anything I'm saying, like the thread was intended I'm trying to get inside the brain of a car salesman lol - At the end of the day I agree if someone is stupid enough to get a bad deal it's on them, not the salesman

My question remains tho; by saying
Quote:
But holding gross is what makes it a living, not a job.

It's how we pay the bills, put kids through college, donate to the church or charity, help parents with their senior living, etc.

It's really not a game, and we're really not playing one.
You're justifying screwing people over, intentionally or unintentionally, saying that's how you make your living and we should in a way, sympathize that. But why should we sympathize that, if you don't have any sympathy to the person you're selling a car to for full msrp, when just 5 minutes ago you let an identical one go for invoice + 500?
You can't act like a shark and tell people not to call you a shark because you do it for your family
Hence my "What makes your money, more important than mine?" Not saying you believe that, but your actions can be seen as screaming exactly that
Don't you feel if you let everyone get a good deal, they're more likely to come back in 2-3 years time to get their next car off you? Even recommend all their friends and families to you? Wouldn't you get considerably more money off that 1 trade if he returned, rather than you selling full msrp one time?

**
If you knew someone changed cars every 18-24 months, would you be more likely to offer him the best deal on the plate each time, knowing he'll return to you to get his next car? Or will it be whatever is negotiated on each time? I guess the question is, when to you, is it acceptable to put the best deal possible on the platter for someone?

Last edited by Rbruno93; 06-19-2017 at 04:52 PM. Reason: follow up question
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Buyers Guide - Dealers, resources, pricing, tips and trick > Ask-A-BMW-Dealer
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.