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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #101  
Old 08-20-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1clean335i View Post
Hi Alex,
Im the tech working on your beautiful E93 at Reeves. Though you think you had to tell me the solution on fixing your car, if you read the bulletin you provided and read the PUMA case that I went back and forth with BMW NA about, they specifically told me your ULF is good as your ULF's production date was after the defective ones. The ones listed in the bulletin states the dates up to and including March 7th 2007. The production date of your ULF is March 19th 2007

I am totally not trying to shoo you out the door with could not duplicate stories. I was well aware of the I-pod switching to FM issue before you brought your car in the first time. As stated on the R/O's, there was no fix for it at that time so I couldnt do anything do it. So with that information stated, I wrote back to BMW NA yesterday and they told me to do an I-pod reset (which I think has absolutely nothing to do with it) and trial fit a known good M-ULF. The new known good ULF is currently in your vehicle and the vehicle is getting programmed. It should be done in the morning. After that I will see how it works with both your i-pod and mine.

As for your "fluttering" concern. the last time it was here, the complaint on the R/O made it seem like the engine/drivetrain was fluttering. Which is why I concluded that it was normal turbo operation. Simple miscommunication there. I was told yesterday that you and the service advisor went on a road test and were not able to duplicate the concern. I then drove the vehicle up i-275 and was able to notice what you were talking about.. It's more of a muffled type vibration in your ears.

The service manger road tested your vehicle yesterday as well then sent your car to the alignment shop for an alignment. I do not do tire/alignment work, we have guys that do that part. From the printout attached to the R/O, it looks like your toe was out of spec so they adjusted that. I then showed the service manager the alignment sheet and asked what he wants to do and he said we'll see how it is now with the toe adjusted (pretty much means ship the car back to the customer).

If you take your palm and rub the outer tread of your front tires you can feel that it was wearing unevenly from the toe being out of spec. Unfortunately I myself cannot do anything for you about that as it is up to the service manager.

I think the service advisor has told you I personally have a 335i as well and with that said I am by no means against you. Let's hope this programming goes well and the I-pod works in the morning
I have noticed that odd pressure vibration on every e93 i have driven to a certain extent, i am wondering if there is a problem with the pressure reliefs inside the vehicle under certain conditions....
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  #102  
Old 08-21-2007, 03:42 AM
alito alito is offline
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that is a good point. Are they speed related, their function I mean? What is exactly their job if you dot mind me asking? Let me know if you are able to find out. Are u a mechanic? Thanks
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  #103  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:40 AM
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that is a good point. Are they speed related, their function I mean? What is exactly their job if you dot mind me asking? Let me know if you are able to find out. Are u a mechanic? Thanks
their job is to relieve positive atmospheric pressure inside the vehicle such as when you slam a door, but they also exhaust air from the vehicle when the ac is on outside air to prevent a pressure buildup inside the vehicle, which means they are open when cruising down the road with the ac on outside air, as you probably know their is a ram air effect in the ac system while driving. switching to recirc may eliminate or reduce the effect while driving if this is the cause.
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  #104  
Old 08-22-2007, 10:28 AM
alito alito is offline
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My dealer has the car with the BMW representative engineer to see if they can figure out what is causing the fluttering. Hope I get some solution, I am getting tired..... Reeves (my dealership) has been trying very hard to figure it out, lets see what BMW does now. I doubt this is the first time BMW hears of this considering 5 pages of this post, calls and the separate voting forum... we'll see. Anyone else take their car to the dealer?
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  #105  
Old 08-22-2007, 01:26 PM
Bostonzguy Bostonzguy is offline
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I'm really interested in hearing what the BMW expert has to say on this one. Hopefully it is something that can be fixed and is not a design flaw!
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  #106  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:17 PM
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WOW, this thread is some good reading. I just noticed a fluttering noise this week on my car....... I think it's the first time the top has ever been up too.
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  #107  
Old 08-22-2007, 03:57 PM
alito alito is offline
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Got a call from the SVC advisor today and the BMW engineer could "not reproduce the problem," and reportedly drove it for 20 miles. How is it that every time I drive it I hear it, the tech heard it, the manager heard it and he did not? I guess all of us are crazy including this forum. Today I asked them to come to MY home and drive it on MY roads. The roads near the dealer are rough. The BMW engineer will not be there after today. The dealer stated they will try again themselvesin the a.m.. I am getting VERY irritated. I think I will proceed legally. I have already contacted my lawyer just in case. I will keep you up to date. $60K for a washer machine is unacceptable. Sorry if I sound pissed, but I am.
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  #108  
Old 08-22-2007, 04:34 PM
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The pressure differential could be the issue. I am going to try cycling the AC recirc on and off to see if it makes a difference. I know that when you crack a window open the noise does seem to go away but I attributed the effect to the wind noise masking the fluttering.

alito, keep us posted on what your dealer says. Thanks.
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  #109  
Old 08-23-2007, 11:50 AM
alito alito is offline
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Just got my car back. Dealer tried what they could. BMW engineer could not reproduce problem at all and service advisor stated that the engineer stated that I could not bring the car back for the same issue that BMW will not cover this concern any more because HE could not hear it. I have written a letter to Mr. Purves, CEO of BMW and have started a web-site specific to this. Also have contacted my attorney. Hopefully I will get an answer or someone will find a fix before it gets ugly. I will make it VERY know via every advertizing and internet media possible how BMW has handdled this. My thanks to Reeves BMW for at least trying. Please keep me posted if anyone finds a solution because apparently BMW thinks we are all nuts.
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  #110  
Old 08-23-2007, 04:03 PM
Ucla95 Ucla95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
Just got my car back. Dealer tried what they could. BMW engineer could not reproduce problem at all and service advisor stated that the engineer stated that I could not bring the car back for the same issue that BMW will not cover this concern any more because HE could not hear it. I have written a letter to Mr. Purves, CEO of BMW and have started a web-site specific to this. Also have contacted my attorney. Hopefully I will get an answer or someone will find a fix before it gets ugly. I will make it VERY know via every advertizing and internet media possible how BMW has handdled this. My thanks to Reeves BMW for at least trying. Please keep me posted if anyone finds a solution because apparently BMW thinks we are all nuts.
I had a similar problem with a car a while back and went through the AAA Arbitration process, it was quick, easy, and I got a buyback in a month. And I didn't need a lawyer. Might be something to investigate. I believe BMW participates.
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  #111  
Old 08-23-2007, 04:07 PM
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Darrenbmw Darrenbmw is offline
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Never had this problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
I have a 2007 335i convertible with the sports package and from 40-70 mph it makes a fluttering noise. It almost sounds like if you left a sunroof open with all the windows closed. I have opened, closed windows and tried every speed and cannot figure out what it is. It is NOT an out of round tire nor tire noise. Has anyone noticed this ? And yes, of course the dealership "cannot reproduce problem" when even my mother noticed and she knows about cars as little as anyone can. Any imput?
I've only had my 335i convertible a couple months, but it is quiet as heck inside. You can't hear ANYTHING outside. I am very impressed. I'd get yours to the dealer .. something is not right .. at least as far as I have experienced.

Best of Luck ..
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  #112  
Old 08-23-2007, 06:25 PM
alito alito is offline
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Originally Posted by Darrenbmw View Post
I've only had my 335i convertible a couple months, but it is quiet as heck inside. You can't hear ANYTHING outside. I am very impressed. I'd get yours to the dealer .. something is not right .. at least as far as I have experienced.

Best of Luck ..
If you read my threads... it has been to the dealer several times including seeing the BMW engineer who figured if he can't hear it then it does not exist so that is it, finito.

Ucla 95, thanks for the imput. Where do I find AAA arbitration? Looked at your link but did not see it. Sorry...
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  #113  
Old 08-23-2007, 06:32 PM
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I had the same problem with my E93 w/ top up only between 50-60mph. Noticed it the very first time I hit that speed at ED in Munich. It's not so much noise as high frequency pressure fluctuation which is very uncomfortable to the ears. It always did it no matter if I'd driven a long time or just started out, rain or dry. Luckily I almost never drove that speed--70 and above on the highway and below 50 on the city streets. Of course this issue was trivial compared to the fact the my roof failed repeatedly by trying to put itself in the trunk with the trunk lid closed--causing damage to the tonneau area and ultimately leading to a full refund (just today! yipee) because of failed repairs after five attempts (see my separate long-winded post). I still have mixed feelings--I really, really liked the car, but it's useless to pay for a convertible that I could only use as a hard-top. When I asked the dealer about the fluttering the very first time the roof tried to put itself into the trunk they indicated that the fluttering is "normal for a convertible". Funny because neither of my Cooper Convertibles have any hint of those troubles and the roof mechanics never failed.
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  #114  
Old 08-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Ucla95 Ucla95 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alito View Post
If you read my threads... it has been to the dealer several times including seeing the BMW engineer who figured if he can't hear it then it does not exist so that is it, finito.

Ucla 95, thanks for the imput. Where do I find AAA arbitration? Looked at your link but did not see it. Sorry...
http://www.dr.bbb.org/autoline/

Call them and get the process started. It worked great for me. After sending in your paperwork they'll schedule you for a 1 hour arbitration hearing (mine was in front of a law professor). Decision came 4 weeks later. I was basically refunded all my money except a usage charge per mile which was very reasonable.
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  #115  
Old 08-23-2007, 07:13 PM
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I have had no problems retracting or putting up my roof. I do plan to pursue the fluttering noise but nowhere near asking for a buyback. I still think it may have something to do with a pressure differential in the car and plan to experiment with the ventilation settings.
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  #116  
Old 08-24-2007, 04:48 AM
alito alito is offline
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This is my first BMW. I have an Audi ( have had a total of 6) and two Nissans. Audi (all 3 dealers I have used) fixes things without question. Nissan, at least the one I use, always goes out of their way not only to be nice but to fix the problem and they do not have to ask Nissan-NA for permission for every little thing as my BMW dealer seems to have to. I am very disappointed, not at my dealer, but at BMW itself. Releasing an IPOD that does not work, a car that flutters... how can engineers of "the ultimate driving machine" (as it is advertised in the U.S.) not notice this when they.... hughhhh, drive the car! I am very upset at the fact that the engineer told my dealer that BMW would not even look at the car for the same problem again!! Here is the whole "permission" thing. I find it amazing and rather insulting, almost telling the customer they are imagining their concern. I even gave him this web-site! I can now see why they offer the free maintenance and this warranty... they do nothing! My car said my oil was due @29,000 miles. I asked to change it at 3,000. BMW would not pay for it, I paid $100 and it was black and could be. Free maintenance... ultimate driving machine... it has driven to the dealer quite a lot!
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  #117  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:16 PM
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any updates?
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  #118  
Old 08-30-2007, 03:53 AM
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Back to the fluttering E93s? My Euro model does it. I thought as it was at speed (70+) it sounded like the wiper blade buzzing about. Still, dealer was also unable to replicate. Watch this space, if you want.
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  #119  
Old 08-30-2007, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GeordieMacca View Post
Back to the fluttering E93s? My Euro model does it. I thought as it was at speed (70+) it sounded like the wiper blade buzzing about. Still, dealer was also unable to replicate. Watch this space, if you want.
I started this forum Geordie... I wanted to know if anyone had dealer experiences and or results on their complaint. We need to keep each other updated. My dealer was able to duplicate it but the BMW "engineer" could not therefore I am screwed. I did contact BMW of North America and we will see what they do.
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  #120  
Old 08-30-2007, 08:34 AM
GeordieMacca GeordieMacca is offline
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Cool to be able to share and then use other's experience. Just today I emailed this thread to my service manager and asked him to read it and then talk to BMW UK. The most credible thing I have read here (and not yet discussed with the service manager) is the possibility of those ventilation flaps fluttering. My fluttering, however, seems to be at the base of the screen pillars. (The suspension goes "honk" once in a while, too)
I'll come back to this when I have more news.
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  #121  
Old 08-30-2007, 09:47 AM
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I thought I posted here before but my take is that this is EXACTLY the same sound I got from my M3 when new with Michelin Sports. Mine is a pressure build up when the run flats are cold until they get hot. I already bought 19 M3 rims and tires non run flat which I will change here soon and be done with it.
I don't know the sound of the fluttering as I don't have what I describe as a fluttering but I sure have a pressure wave that is resonates with speed. My M3 did the same thing until I got miles on the car and this was at 70 mph where it was the worst and I also have experienced this with E36 sedans when someone opened a back window at speed. I mean the drumming and pressure wave on the ears was unmistakeable.

I have high confidence that the sound is caused by the tires being so stiff that they transmit that energy to the unibody which passes it to the cabin.

As reported it can't be duplicated when the top is down or windows opened because that masks the sound or in my case pressure wave.

The OP has new tires but they are run flats and may still be causing this.
My only suggestion is to try a set of non run flats and see if the sound or noise or pressure wave is the same or eliminated.

I do agree that BMW may be viewing our forum and what we report as a large series of prototypes to learn from for follow on year E93's.

I also give your Tech at Reeves, where I bought my M3 significant credit. I do think we are lucky to have guys that really care about the cars as he so clearly does...
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  #122  
Old 08-30-2007, 10:11 AM
alito alito is offline
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Ditto !!! The tech and even the manager so far have been great but they can only do so much. My tech offered to have a set of NRF tites on. I will, if no response from BWM ask to see if I ca put a set of regular tires on.

I have read however someone who posted that he changed the tires and rims to non RF tires and the fluttering was still there.

Where are these ventillation flaps located GeordieMacca ?

Thanks for the imput guys.
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  #123  
Old 08-30-2007, 10:39 AM
GeordieMacca GeordieMacca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash8168 View Post
their job is to relieve positive atmospheric pressure inside the vehicle such as when you slam a door, but they also exhaust air from the vehicle when the ac is on outside air to prevent a pressure buildup inside the vehicle, which means they are open when cruising down the road with the ac on outside air, as you probably know their is a ram air effect in the ac system while driving. switching to recirc may eliminate or reduce the effect while driving if this is the cause.
This is where I read the theory - only thing is I dont know where they are - I have seen flappy type rubber 1-way-air holes in the luggae compartment of an E46, maybe that's them, but I haven't a clue on E93.

Could be the noise of a trembling flap, not being able to decide whether it should be open or shut? Only a theory. No answer yet from my service manager - he's a good chap - will be fair and honest.
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Last edited by GeordieMacca; 08-30-2007 at 10:43 AM.
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  #124  
Old 09-01-2007, 03:28 AM
alito alito is offline
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I am in contact with BMW of North America to see if we can resolve and find out what the issue is. As I stated before, the BMW engineer "could not duplicate problem" so as far as he was concerned, the car would not be looked at for that particular problem again. That is very bothersome to me and unacceptable. I have informed BMW of NA that this forum exists so please post all your FLUTTERING noise concerns, stories, take the survey and also your dealership experiences. This is the only way to prove that those of us who hear it are not imagining things. I do have to give BMW NA customer service credit for trying on my recent contact. They have called the dealer and offered to escalate the investigation. Please post and vote! Thank you
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  #125  
Old 09-01-2007, 05:13 AM
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I called BMWNA and registered my concern. Their only response was: take it to your dealer. I contacted the dealer and they had no idea what I was talking about.
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