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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2009, 11:32 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by claims View Post
Met with tech engineer. He made me feel like I was lying about the leak or I intentionally caused it. Then proceeded to say that the 2008 they took back from me as a result of the leak didn't leak after all and was sold at auction. Poor person who bought it. They pulled my 2009 BMW into wash area and then pulled another hard top convertible from their lot next to mine for testing. Water tested mine and of course the water steadily poured down inside the driver's window. Water checked the car from their lot and guess what it leaked too! Had a few choice words for him and was told another rep would be in touch with me. Was told that they would not give me another convertible. I really like my car so it's just all too bad.
Is there any reason that you do not have a Lemon Law attorney in the picture?
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2009, 11:09 AM
claims claims is offline
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Because I can pursue lemon law on my on without the expense of an attorney. Also, I am a paralegal at major law firm if I need the intervention of an attorney.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2009, 11:48 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Don't know about Florida, but in California, the expense of the attorney is on the manufacturer from day one.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been going around in circles with BMW on your leaking top?
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2009, 04:02 PM
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rmorin49 rmorin49 is offline
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Try Another Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by claims View Post
Met with tech engineer. He made me feel like I was lying about the leak or I intentionally caused it. Then proceeded to say that the 2008 they took back from me as a result of the leak didn't leak after all and was sold at auction. Poor person who bought it. They pulled my 2009 BMW into wash area and then pulled another hard top convertible from their lot next to mine for testing. Water tested mine and of course the water steadily poured down inside the driver's window. Water checked the car from their lot and guess what it leaked too! Had a few choice words for him and was told another rep would be in touch with me. Was told that they would not give me another convertible. I really like my car so it's just all too bad.
Sounds like you ought to consider another dealer. Are you in an 09 now that was part of a BMW buyback and you are having the same problem? If yes, this is a bummer. I feel bad for you.
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2009, 07:09 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
Sounds like you ought to consider another dealer. Are you in an 09 now that was part of a BMW buyback and you are having the same problem? If yes, this is a bummer. I feel bad for you.
From the description, it sounds like the 'technical representative' was from BMW.... If it was the factory technical representative, switching dealers isn't likely to be of much help.
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  #31  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:50 PM
Nicholas_KL Nicholas_KL is offline
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Finally got my hand on the 325ci hard top convertible (2008) after owing a series of 3s starting with e30. BMW has continued to impress me with the overall build and design; however the front top corner leakage during rain has certainly dampened my confidence for the badge. Well, at least the cars are consistently 'fault' across the world!

All said, GREAT MACHINE! Perhaps the next model comes standard with iWeather knob!

Last edited by Nicholas_KL; 04-14-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2009, 12:52 PM
claims claims is offline
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The perfect world

Would not have rain and her car would not have to be washed. But for that BMW should get up on the wheel and get this problem corrected. It is an obvious design defect that can be cured. They do not have to have a full recall as some people accept poor quality. Just fix the ones who expect to get what they pay for.

I influenced the person to buy the BMW based on its well renowned engineering. Help a lover out.
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  #33  
Old 04-15-2009, 05:16 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by claims View Post
Would not have rain and her car would not have to be washed. But for that BMW should get up on the wheel and get this problem corrected. It is an obvious design defect that can be cured. They do not have to have a full recall as some people accept poor quality. Just fix the ones who expect to get what they pay for.

I influenced the person to buy the BMW based on its well renowned engineering. Help a lover out.
I think you are presuming something that may not be the circumstance. If the water leaks could not be solved with shimming the seal on my E93, what makes you think the design defect could be cured?
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  #34  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:25 PM
mhb15 mhb15 is offline
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No leaks for me

I have had 07 E93 from new and live in the sometimes rainy Pacific NW. Yet have not had any leaking problems yet.
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  #35  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:27 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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I have had 07 E93 from new and live in the sometimes rainy Pacific NW. Yet have not had any leaking problems yet.
There are cars that are water-tight. But if you have one that leaks, it is a real downer.
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  #36  
Old 08-23-2009, 07:10 AM
schoenbg schoenbg is offline
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hello - this is teh original poster. just wanted to give everyone an update on my ongoing saga.

so to recap - bought a 2008 335i hardtop convert in may 2008. a week later, tree fell on the garage it was in. minor cosmetic damage to the top. seals removed whne repainted according to the body shop. about 10K work overall, including new hood and windshield. but again to the best of my knowledge nothing other than scratches on the top and nothing larger than a roof shingle hit the top.

upon return of hte car, we noticed tthe top leaked - several places - most notably at the top of the front pillars where teh top and side/front windows meet.

the dealer had it multiple times, unable to fix. actually always made it worse - eventually they stopped even trying to make the fit and finish look right - i'd get th car back and it looked like somene had mushed the top down - all misaligned. the body shop tried repeatedly also. also could not fix, but always made it better, and the fit looked good when i got it back.

after 5 or so dealer attempts and many weeks sans car, they sent a tech from... somewhere.... to look at it. this person was like the invisible man. i wasn't allowed to know when he was coming or to arrange to meet with him. i had to practically chase him down to find him, the phone number on the card he gave me was disconnected. he gave me no information on what his report found. however as he recommended replacing more seals, i assumed he had found somethign wrong (more on this below!). also didn't fix it.

so at this point, the BMWNA customer service rep i was dealing with brought up the possibility of a vehicle replacement. this is not something i wanted as it presumably would cost me still more money - i just want my car not to leak. but fine! if that is what is required....... ultimately however they decided that even this was not possible.

and here is where it gets weird.

in their decision, BMW NA claimed that the top did not leak! wha?!? apparently without telling me teh results, the tech they sent ran it through a car wash. no leak. this ignored that i already did this with the dealer - ie they found no leak in teh car wash, whereas i demonstrated it with a hose. i offered to demonstrate the leak again - perhaps in the next rain - and even sent video and photographic evidence of it. their response was that they did not want me to show them the leak (see no evil, hear no evil....etc). the BMW NA rep directly REFUSED to allow me to demonstrate it or even to test it themselves under the conditions i specified would cause the leak.

so i filed a lemon law complaint with Maryland. and here it gets weirder.

in response to my complaint, BMW NA did not dispute the leak but claimed it is not their problem because 1) a tree fell on the car (this is not true!) and 2) i took it to an "unauthorized" shop. yet i took it to the body shop that their BMW dealer recommended. the dealer has no shop. and there is no authorized BMW shop in teh area to the best of my knowledge. nor has the dealer or BMW NA responded to my requests that they direct me to one. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE BMW AUTHORIZED SHOP IS SO I CAN HAVE MY LEAK FIXED!!!!!!! but of course they can't do this, because there are no authorized BMW body shops that can fix this problem, since it is a design flaw in their car. a short walk through your local parking lot (or bmw dealer) during a good rain will confirm this.

anyway i felt an update was necessary here because of the high opinion i think most of us have (or had) about BMW cars and BMW in general. with such great cars, i naively expected that they would be as unhappy about a problem like this as me. yet i have found the opposite. i have been disappointed in the behavior of absolutely everyone from BMW that has been involved in this mess. in every case, their workmanship has been substandard, their customer service has been below par, and their response to my pointing this out has been defensive. while this would not have surprised me coming from ford, gm, or one of the other car companies, i expected more from this company and this car.
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:23 AM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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I feel your pain, I have been dealing with a waterfall of a leak since I got mine and BMW NA & DA does not care.
BMW's customer relations is a JOKE
Get a lawyer ASAP

The video of my car at a car wash

Last edited by xtremecruiser; 08-23-2009 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Thread Subscription
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2009, 10:08 AM
Wichard20 Wichard20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
I feel your pain, I have been dealing with a waterfall of a leak since I got mine and BMW NA & DA does not care.
BMW's customer relations is a JOKE
Get a lawyer ASAP

The video of my car at a car wash
wow that is really bad
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  #39  
Old 08-23-2009, 10:26 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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It appears to be hit or miss. I have a May 07 build. No fluttering noise, no leaks. I have driven the car in torrential South Florida rain storms and taken it to "spray it yourself" car washes. I regurlarly put the top partially down and wipe off the seals. My only complaint is the lousy suspension that feels like the car is breaking in half when I hit a pot hole.

CA
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  #40  
Old 08-23-2009, 10:30 AM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
It appears to be hit or miss. I have a May 07 build. No fluttering noise, no leaks. I have driven the car in torrential South Florida rain storms and taken it to "spray it yourself" car washes. I regurlarly put the top partially down and wipe off the seals. My only complaint is the lousy suspension that feels like the car is breaking in half when I hit a pot hole.

CA
Those that have leaks are not to happy with BMW's lack of responsibility with fixing the issue.
May car sits with towels in the seats in case it rains while I drive another car, my POS BMW sits and collects water and dust.
There are more than just a few isolated convertibles that leak.
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  #41  
Old 08-23-2009, 10:32 AM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Originally Posted by schoenbg View Post
hello - this is teh original poster. just wanted to give
so i filed a lemon law complaint with Maryland. and here it gets weirder.

in response to my complaint, BMW NA did not dispute the leak but claimed it is not their problem because 1) a tree fell on the car (this is not true!) and 2) i took it to an "unauthorized" shop. yet i took it to the body shop that their BMW dealer recommended. the dealer has no shop. and there is no authorized BMW shop in teh area to the best of my knowledge. nor has the dealer or BMW NA responded to my requests that they direct me to one. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE BMW AUTHORIZED SHOP IS SO I CAN HAVE MY LEAK FIXED!!!!!!! but of course they can't do this, because there are no authorized BMW body shops that can fix this problem, since it is a design flaw in their car. a short walk through your local parking lot (or bmw dealer) during a good rain will confirm this.

anyway i felt an update was necessary here because of the high opinion i think most of us have (or had) about BMW cars and BMW in general. with such great cars, i naively expected that they would be as unhappy about a problem like this as me. yet i have found the opposite. i have been disappointed in the behavior of absolutely everyone from BMW that has been involved in this mess. in every case, their workmanship has been substandard, their customer service has been below par, and their response to my pointing this out has been defensive. while this would not have surprised me coming from ford, gm, or one of the other car companies, i expected more from this company and this car.
Standard response by BMW NA, they did not even respond to my LL demand letter asking for arbitration, get a lawyer ASAP and file a lawsuit
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:21 PM
clarkcc1 clarkcc1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoenbg View Post
hello - this is teh original poster. just wanted to give everyone an update on my ongoing saga.

so to recap - bought a 2008 335i hardtop convert in may 2008. a week later, tree fell on the garage it was in. minor cosmetic damage to the top. seals removed whne repainted according to the body shop. about 10K work overall, including new hood and windshield. but again to the best of my knowledge nothing other than scratches on the top and nothing larger than a roof shingle hit the top.

upon return of hte car, we noticed tthe top leaked - several places - most notably at the top of the front pillars where teh top and side/front windows meet.

the dealer had it multiple times, unable to fix. actually always made it worse - eventually they stopped even trying to make the fit and finish look right - i'd get th car back and it looked like somene had mushed the top down - all misaligned. the body shop tried repeatedly also. also could not fix, but always made it better, and the fit looked good when i got it back.

after 5 or so dealer attempts and many weeks sans car, they sent a tech from... somewhere.... to look at it. this person was like the invisible man. i wasn't allowed to know when he was coming or to arrange to meet with him. i had to practically chase him down to find him, the phone number on the card he gave me was disconnected. he gave me no information on what his report found. however as he recommended replacing more seals, i assumed he had found somethign wrong (more on this below!). also didn't fix it.

so at this point, the BMWNA customer service rep i was dealing with brought up the possibility of a vehicle replacement. this is not something i wanted as it presumably would cost me still more money - i just want my car not to leak. but fine! if that is what is required....... ultimately however they decided that even this was not possible.

and here is where it gets weird.

in their decision, BMW NA claimed that the top did not leak! wha?!? apparently without telling me teh results, the tech they sent ran it through a car wash. no leak. this ignored that i already did this with the dealer - ie they found no leak in teh car wash, whereas i demonstrated it with a hose. i offered to demonstrate the leak again - perhaps in the next rain - and even sent video and photographic evidence of it. their response was that they did not want me to show them the leak (see no evil, hear no evil....etc). the BMW NA rep directly REFUSED to allow me to demonstrate it or even to test it themselves under the conditions i specified would cause the leak.

so i filed a lemon law complaint with Maryland. and here it gets weirder.

in response to my complaint, BMW NA did not dispute the leak but claimed it is not their problem because 1) a tree fell on the car (this is not true!) and 2) i took it to an "unauthorized" shop. yet i took it to the body shop that their BMW dealer recommended. the dealer has no shop. and there is no authorized BMW shop in teh area to the best of my knowledge. nor has the dealer or BMW NA responded to my requests that they direct me to one. PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE BMW AUTHORIZED SHOP IS SO I CAN HAVE MY LEAK FIXED!!!!!!! but of course they can't do this, because there are no authorized BMW body shops that can fix this problem, since it is a design flaw in their car. a short walk through your local parking lot (or bmw dealer) during a good rain will confirm this.

anyway i felt an update was necessary here because of the high opinion i think most of us have (or had) about BMW cars and BMW in general. with such great cars, i naively expected that they would be as unhappy about a problem like this as me. yet i have found the opposite. i have been disappointed in the behavior of absolutely everyone from BMW that has been involved in this mess. in every case, their workmanship has been substandard, their customer service has been below par, and their response to my pointing this out has been defensive. while this would not have surprised me coming from ford, gm, or one of the other car companies, i expected more from this company and this car.
Yikes...

Just last week I had my car in for service and asked them to look into this issue, which I face too. It didn't use to bother me, but over time its gotten slightly worse. In my case it started with a few drops that will come inside after opening and closing the door after a moderate or heavy rain and can be reproduced with a normal garden hose over the area. Over time it has progressed enough to make my left arm and/or leg a little wet.

The dealer said they were able to replicate it and tried re-adjusting the seals. The DC area had torrential rains the past couple days, and my issue still exists. So, it has been in the shop once for the issue and they said something to the effect of "convertibles will likely not be perfectly sealed up" and I wasn't in the mood to fight it. If I keep bringing it back in and they don't fix, perhaps I'll look into lemon. Not sure of VA's regs on this yet though.
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2007 335i convertible, space grey/coral red/grey poplar, step, paddles, premium, sport, cold weather, PDC, comfort access, iDrive, sirius, 6FL ... succumbed to fuel pump too many times, bought back via lemon laws by BMW NA

Last edited by clarkcc1; 08-23-2009 at 01:44 PM.
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:35 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkcc1 View Post
Yikes...

Just last week I had my car in for service and asked them to look into this issue, which I face too. It didn't use to bother me, but over time its gotten slightly worse. In my case it is a few drops that will come inside after opening and closing the door after a moderate or heavy rain and can be reproduced with a normal garden hose over the area.

The dealer said they were able to replicate it and tried re-adjusting the seals. The DC area had torrential rains the past couple days, and my issue still exists. So, it has been in the shop once for the issue and they said something to the effect of "convertibles will likely not be perfectly sealed up" and I wasn't in the mood to fight it. If I keep bringing it back in and they don't fix, perhaps I'll look into lemon. Not sure of VA's regs on this yet though.
Truth be told, a few drops that come inside when the door is opened and closed after a rain storm is not a leak. A leak is a stream of water passing the seals when the car is driven in a rain storm.
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:43 PM
clarkcc1 clarkcc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Truth be told, a few drops that come inside when the door is opened and closed after a rain storm is not a leak. A leak is a stream of water passing the seals when the car is driven in a rain storm.
Fair enough. I guess I'm only starting to think of the potential options because it is slowly getting worse. I will make an edit to my last post to say that it started with a few drops and has progressed to enough to make my left arm or leg a little wet. Not drenched, but the progression is worrysome.
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Retired:
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2007 335i convertible, space grey/coral red/grey poplar, step, paddles, premium, sport, cold weather, PDC, comfort access, iDrive, sirius, 6FL ... succumbed to fuel pump too many times, bought back via lemon laws by BMW NA

Last edited by clarkcc1; 08-23-2009 at 01:45 PM.
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:43 PM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkcc1 View Post
Yikes...

Just last week I had my car in for service and asked them to look into this issue, which I face too. It didn't use to bother me, but over time its gotten slightly worse. In my case it is a few drops that will come inside after opening and closing the door after a moderate or heavy rain and can be reproduced with a normal garden hose over the area.

The dealer said they were able to replicate it and tried re-adjusting the seals. The DC area had torrential rains the past couple days, and my issue still exists. So, it has been in the shop once for the issue and they said something to the effect of "convertibles will likely not be perfectly sealed up" and I wasn't in the mood to fight it. If I keep bringing it back in and they don't fix, perhaps I'll look into lemon. Not sure of VA's regs on this yet though.
It is NOT normal for water to come into the car when its raining, I do not care what the dealer told you
Trying to work with BNW's customer relations does not work, lawyer up
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  #46  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:54 PM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Fair enough. I guess I'm only starting to think of the potential options because it is slowly getting worse. I will make an edit to my last post to say that it started with a few drops and has progressed to enough to make my left arm or leg a little wet. Not drenched, but the progression is worrysome.
Keep taking it back and document every time they have it, take the manager through a touch less car wash to show him it leaks and don't have a towel for him.
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  #47  
Old 08-23-2009, 01:58 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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It is NOT normal for water to come into the car when its raining, I do not care what the dealer told you
Trying to work with BNW's customer relations does not work, lawyer up
But a few drops when the door is opened and closed is not a leak. Your video is not a few drops when the door is opened and closed....

Good luck trying to convince anyone judging a Lemon Law action that a few drops when the door is opened and closed is a leak. One of the manuals that came with my E93 even stated that a few drops when the door is opened and closed is normal and not to be considered a leak. I don't have the manual because I had to surrender all manuals that came with the car when it was repurchased, so I can't give a citation for the statement.
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  #48  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:02 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Fair enough. I guess I'm only starting to think of the potential options because it is slowly getting worse. I will make an edit to my last post to say that it started with a few drops and has progressed to enough to make my left arm or leg a little wet. Not drenched, but the progression is worrysome.
Is the source of the water still based on when the door is opened and closed? Or, is the water being presented when the car is driven in a rainstorm? If the water is being presented when the car is driven in a rainstorm (and the windows aren't rolled down at the time), you have the beginnings of a water leak. If the water drips/drops are happening when the door is being opened and closed, you are still not at a seal leak condition.
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  #49  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:12 PM
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johnc_22 johnc_22 is offline
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The first time I saw the origami hard top I just thought it looked like something destined for problems and eventually a huge financial burden. I know Lexus, Volvo and other companies have offered hard tops - do they fare any better than BMW?
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  #50  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:45 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
Those that have leaks are not to happy with BMW's lack of responsibility with fixing the issue.
May car sits with towels in the seats in case it rains while I drive another car, my POS BMW sits and collects water and dust.
There are more than just a few isolated convertibles that leak.
I guess I am luvky that mine doesn't leak. Hopefully they will fix the problem. In any case I have no intention of ever buying another BMW convertible or otherwise.

CA
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