leaking hardtop 335i 2008 - Page 3 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:55 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post
The first time I saw the origami hard top I just thought it looked like something destined for problems and eventually a huge financial burden. I know Lexus, Volvo and other companies have offered hard tops - do they fare any better than BMW?
Just seems to be the E93 series that has issues
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:07 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
Just seems to be the E93 series that has issues
I don't know about Lexus but as regards the Volvo C70, the dealer I take my XC90 to for service is one of the larger volume dealers in the S.F. Bay Area and they have had zero (no, that isn't a typo, I did mean to type zero) cars in for top leaks. They have had a car repurchased for a failed top opening (it stopped half way open) that went through 4 failed repair attempts. But zero water leaks....
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:20 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I don't know about Lexus but as regards the Volvo C70, the dealer I take my XC90 to for service is one of the larger volume dealers in the S.F. Bay Area and they have had zero (no, that isn't a typo, I did mean to type zero) cars in for top leaks. They have had a car repurchased for a failed top opening (it stopped half way open) that went through 4 failed repair attempts. But zero water leaks....
Heard the same thing from other owners and dealers with their hardtop convertibles, seems BMW has the drip drip splash splash issue
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:58 PM
nycdoc22 nycdoc22 is offline
Registered User
Location: FLorida
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 19
Mein Auto: 09 328 vert
My 09 E93 does not leak.

~8000 miles

...But i am scared now...
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:08 PM
captainaudio's Avatar
captainaudio captainaudio is offline
Worlds Foremost Authority
Location: Upper East Side Manhattan - Lime Rock CT
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,821
Mein Auto: M4 Cabrio - Cayenne GTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
There are cars that are water-tight. But if you have one that leaks, it is a real downer.
My theory is that the seals will work if fit of the top is within certain close tolerances. If it is not then it will leak and there is nothing that can be done to the seals that will cure the problem. What BMW probably needs to do is come up with a design for seals that does not require such close tolerances in the fit of the top. This may not be possible with the present top design.

My signature should explain how I arrived at this theory.

CA
__________________


Drivers Club at Lime Rock
The Glen Club (Watkins Glen International)
International Motor Racing Research Center
BMWCCA
Cayman Club Nor'Easters
Porsche Club of America
Madison Ave. Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (Only a Vice President)
Sports Car Club of America
Polish Racing Drivers of America (PRDA)
American Mural Project
Simeone Foundation Automotive Museum
Mount Washington Observatory
Society of Automotive Historians
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-24-2009, 10:24 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
My theory is that the seals will work if fit of the top is within certain close tolerances. If it is not then it will leak and there is nothing that can be done to the seals that will cure the problem. What BMW probably needs to do is come up with a design for seals that does not require such close tolerances in the fit of the top. This may not be possible with the present top design.

My signature should explain how I arrived at this theory.

CA
I agree with your theory 100%. Which is why I suggested checking out the windshield frame seal of the next gen Z4. There is something like a 1 1/2 inch wide seal that is in turn backed up with what looks like a 3/8 inch wide U-shaped drain channel that routes any water that makes it past the 1 1/2 inch wide seal to drains that are located at each of the A-pillars. I would be quite surprised if the Z4's sealing approach is not implemented on the LCI edition of the E93.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:25 AM
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, Tx
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 167
Mein Auto: Porsche Turbo, E93 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoenbg View Post
in response to my complaint, BMW NA did not dispute the leak but claimed it is not their problem because 1) a tree fell on the car (this is not true!)
In my opinion, this is correct (knowing the tree fell on the garage, the rest is semantics). This is no different than a collision scenario......its an insurance issue, not a warranty issue. If the car cannot be repaired to your satisfaction, the insurance company needs to buy it off you.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:34 AM
Shark01 Shark01 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, Tx
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 167
Mein Auto: Porsche Turbo, E93 335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
It is NOT normal for water to come into the car when its raining, I do not care what the dealer told you
Trying to work with BNW's customer relations does not work, lawyer up
This is NOT a BMW or hardtop only issue. ALL convertibles develop leaks over time.....ALL of them. Can't tell you how many seal kits and replacement parts I've bought for Corvettes and Mustangs over the years. Its one of the trade-offs of convertibles

Now if your car develops leaks during the warranty period, by all means try to get it fixed on their dollar, but its no guarantee they won't re-occur.

Now in a small % of cars, tolerance issues may be such that leaks can't be fixed and the car must be sent back to a factory setting (hopefully the owner gets bought out).
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-25-2009, 11:40 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark01 View Post
This is NOT a BMW or hardtop only issue. ALL convertibles develop leaks over time.....ALL of them. Can't tell you how many seal kits and replacement parts I've bought for Corvettes and Mustangs over the years. Its one of the trade-offs of convertibles

Now if your car develops leaks during the warranty period, by all means try to get it fixed on their dollar, but its no guarantee they won't re-occur.

Now in a small % of cars, tolerance issues may be such that leaks can't be fixed and the car must be sent back to a factory setting (hopefully the owner gets bought out).
If the gap is too great, I don't know what can be done to the current generation of E93 to 'solve' the leaking problem. With my E93, the shop foreman tried shimming the seal on the windshield frame to no avail. If there was going to be a 'solution' shimming would have addressed it. Net, net, even the shop foreman was out of things to try... in that circumstance, a repurchase/trade assist is the only remedy available. Since I had been burned once on an E93 and there was no way to be certain that I wouldn't get another leaking car, I took the cash.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:23 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
If the gap is too great, I don't know what can be done to the current generation of E93 to 'solve' the leaking problem. With my E93, the shop foreman tried shimming the seal on the windshield frame to no avail. If there was going to be a 'solution' shimming would have addressed it. Net, net, even the shop foreman was out of things to try... in that circumstance, a repurchase/trade assist is the only remedy available. Since I had been burned once on an E93 and there was no way to be certain that I wouldn't get another leaking car, I took the cash.
You are right about this and the Z4 change
All the leaky E93's are not fixed by a "shim" and making the top as tight as possible, if you are one of the unfortunate ones with a leaky E93 then you are flocked, BMW can replace the seals, slap gue in the rubber, shim them, and tighten them down so tight that the windows sound like they are gonna shatter, butt it does not fix the issue.
I have yet to hear of one that has been fixed that leaked.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:29 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark01 View Post
This is NOT a BMW or hardtop only issue. ALL convertibles develop leaks over time.....ALL of them. Can't tell you how many seal kits and replacement parts I've bought for Corvettes and Mustangs over the years. Its one of the trade-offs of convertibles

Now if your car develops leaks during the warranty period, by all means try to get it fixed on their dollar, but its no guarantee they won't re-occur.

Now in a small % of cars, tolerance issues may be such that leaks can't be fixed and the car must be sent back to a factory setting (hopefully the owner gets bought out).
The E93 is a different animal, it either leaks and your flocked or it does not leak.
I have rode through the same car wash in another E93, a 85 mustang Gt vert, a 08 Vette, and a 02 jag.. and none of them leak, only the 85 GT had a few drips.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:36 PM
SailinSand's Avatar
SailinSand SailinSand is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: .
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,095
Mein Auto: .
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
You are right about this and the Z4 change
All the leaky E93's are not fixed by a "shim" and making the top as tight as possible, if you are one of the unfortunate ones with a leaky E93 then you are flocked, BMW can replace the seals, slap gue in the rubber, shim them, and tighten them down so tight that the windows sound like they are gonna shatter, butt it does not fix the issue.
I have yet to hear of one that has been fixed that leaked.
Glad to have gotten rid of my lemon.


...not many people have had this same issue. (luckily)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:38 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailinSand View Post
Glad to have gotten rid of my lemon.


...not many people have had this same issue. (luckily)
I have read your threads, unfortunately mine issue is close to what yours was

Last edited by xtremecruiser; 08-25-2009 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:39 PM
SailinSand's Avatar
SailinSand SailinSand is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: .
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,095
Mein Auto: .
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
I have read your threads, unfortunately mine is close to yours


So sorry to hear that. ...not many of us out here. Did you do a 'Trade Assist?'

...glad to ahve gotten rid of it, however...there are days I miss the vehicle.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:44 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailinSand View Post


So sorry to hear that. ...not many of us out here. Did you do a 'Trade Assist?'

...glad to ahve gotten rid of it, however...there are days I miss the vehicle.
Keep an eye out for the LCI edition of the E93. If the seal is replaced with something like what is available on the next gen Z4, you can expect the top leaks to have been resolved.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:45 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by SailinSand View Post


So sorry to hear that. ...not many of us out here. Did you do a 'Trade Assist?'

...glad to ahve gotten rid of it, however...there are days I miss the vehicle.
BMW customer relations jerked me around, they offered me a swap butt the local dealer refused to do it.
I have had to lawyer up, just waiting on my day in court, they can not keep delaying it forever.
Nice to know that the local media will be there to put it on the news when my court date comes, they think its a story worth waiting for
You would think BMW would not want cases like this to get to court, esp since I am a going to be a arsh and press the issue and actually go into court.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:49 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Keep an eye out for the LCI edition of the E93. If the seal is replaced with something like what is available on the next gen Z4, you can expect the top leaks to have been resolved.
I have not heard of any changes with the 2010 model, do you know when its going to happen ?
I know the M3 E93 also has the same leak issues.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-25-2009, 01:59 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
I have not heard of any changes with the 2010 model, do you know when its going to happen ?
I know the M3 E93 also has the same leak issues.
Speculation from the dealers is September 2010, which would be MY 2011.

The E93 M3 has the same seals as the non-M E93, so there would be no reason for the M3 E93 to not leak....
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:03 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
BMW customer relations jerked me around, they offered me a swap butt the local dealer refused to do it.
I have had to lawyer up, just waiting on my day in court, they can not keep delaying it forever.
Nice to know that the local media will be there to put it on the news when my court date comes, they think its a story worth waiting for
You would think BMW would not want cases like this to get to court, esp since I am a going to be a arsh and press the issue and actually go into court.
Be prepared for BMW to offer you either a trade or repurchase on the courthouse steps. If they offer you a resolution, you can't force them to suffer through a litigation experience. There is no punitive damage provision unless BMW refuses to settle and forces a trial.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:03 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Speculation from the dealers is September 2010, which would be MY 2011.

The E93 M3 has the same seals as the non-M E93, so there would be no reason for the M3 E93 to not leak....
Funny, BMW said that this new hardtop was the answer to convertible leaks and it's the new future
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:08 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
Funny, BMW said that this new hardtop was the answer to convertible leaks and it's the new future
Well, it may be the answer, but apparently not without some teething issues.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-25-2009, 02:13 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Be prepared for BMW to offer you either a trade or repurchase on the courthouse steps. If they offer you a resolution, you can't force them to suffer through a litigation experience. There is no punitive damage provision unless BMW refuses to settle and forces a trial.
We will see, BMW NA refused my written and verbal arbitration request, I am sure they enjoyed my 18 page lawsuit from my attorney.
I have had to keep a second car to drive since mine is such a POS
My lawsuit is more involved than just a LL case, I am eligible for damages.

http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/SC_law.html
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:00 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: S.F. Bay Area
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,807
Mein Auto: 2010 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
We will see, BMW NA refused my written and verbal arbitration request, I am sure they enjoyed my 18 page lawsuit from my attorney.
I have had to keep a second car to drive since mine is such a POS
My lawsuit is more involved than just a LL case, I am eligible for damages.

http://www.carlemon.com/lemon/SC_law.html
I skimmed the URL you provided. Where is the section that provides for damages? If I were the attorney representing BMW NA, my first question would be how have you been 'damaged'? My second question would be how have you arrived at your damage calculation? The fact that you have had to keep a second car to drive isn't exactly relevant, since the water leaks don't rise to a safety defect that would justify the requirement for a duplicate/replacement car. Worst case, you can't drive the E93 in a rainstorm, so your damages are the daily rental rate for the number of days it rained between the time you first brought the car in for the leaking roof and the date of trial. If there is an exclusive remedy clause in the SC LL statute, the offer to repurchase the car (absent obstruction or other 'above and beyond' activity) is generally the exclusive remedy that is available to you....

I am not saying that you don't have a case; just that you need to be prepared for a settlement offer that involves either a trade assist on a new BMW or a repurchase of the present car.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-26-2009, 12:57 PM
xtremecruiser's Avatar
xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: sc
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 237
Mein Auto: 08 335I vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I skimmed the URL you provided. Where is the section that provides for damages? If I were the attorney representing BMW NA, my first question would be how have you been 'damaged'? My second question would be how have you arrived at your damage calculation? The fact that you have had to keep a second car to drive isn't exactly relevant, since the water leaks don't rise to a safety defect that would justify the requirement for a duplicate/replacement car. Worst case, you can't drive the E93 in a rainstorm, so your damages are the daily rental rate for the number of days it rained between the time you first brought the car in for the leaking roof and the date of trial. If there is an exclusive remedy clause in the SC LL statute, the offer to repurchase the car (absent obstruction or other 'above and beyond' activity) is generally the exclusive remedy that is available to you....

I am not saying that you don't have a case; just that you need to be prepared for a settlement offer that involves either a trade assist on a new BMW or a repurchase of the present car.
I can't discuss the case right now, it's complicated
Thanks for the info about the changes to the Z4 hardtop
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-26-2009, 01:24 PM
pilotman pilotman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Rochester
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,384
Mein Auto: e46, X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I skimmed the URL you provided. Where is the section that provides for damages? If I were the attorney representing BMW NA, my first question would be how have you been 'damaged'? My second question would be how have you arrived at your damage calculation? The fact that you have had to keep a second car to drive isn't exactly relevant, since the water leaks don't rise to a safety defect that would justify the requirement for a duplicate/replacement car. Worst case, you can't drive the E93 in a rainstorm, so your damages are the daily rental rate for the number of days it rained between the time you first brought the car in for the leaking roof and the date of trial. If there is an exclusive remedy clause in the SC LL statute, the offer to repurchase the car (absent obstruction or other 'above and beyond' activity) is generally the exclusive remedy that is available to you....

I am not saying that you don't have a case; just that you need to be prepared for a settlement offer that involves either a trade assist on a new BMW or a repurchase of the present car.
I am an attorney, and I can tell you damages are easily recoverable in these situations, under a number of scenarios, including but not limited to: breach of contract (loss of use, etc. disclaimers for such damages notwithstanding), violation of consumer protection statutes (which provide for attorneys' fees and punitive damages), etc etc etc.

Good luck, sorry you had to resort to litigation but hope you obtain a favorable result.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series & 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms