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  #51  
Old 09-03-2009, 03:17 PM
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Deja-Vu all over again
and over...and over.
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2009, 03:44 PM
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But the sales guy has a vested interest in not deliberately inflating the extent of the problem. Maybe the dude is asking because he has friends (doubt it) or relatives (no choice, they are stuck with "him") who heard about the problem, are concerned and are potential purchasers of a 335i. Why would he exaggerate the extent of the problem and risk turning away potential buyers that this despicable person may know?
It wasn't a sales guy, it was a service adviser. Sales guys know less than service guys from what I've seen, and the service guys don't always know much either.

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  #53  
Old 09-03-2009, 04:13 PM
bmwKbiker bmwKbiker is offline
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In theory the SA could take all his clients with N54s engines and count them up and then do a second tally of all that had a HPFP replaced and he would get a snapshot of the HPFP failure rate among his clients. I really doubt he'd bother with this exercise.

Naturally he has seen quite a few BMWs needing HPFP service, someone asked an so he pulled a percentage out of his *SS.
All this really says is the failure rate is significant not a "small percentage" *cough*, but we all already know that little fact.

Last edited by bmwKbiker; 09-03-2009 at 05:56 PM.
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  #54  
Old 09-03-2009, 04:47 PM
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It wasn't a sales guy, it was a service adviser. Sales guys know less than service guys from what I've seen, and the service guys don't always know much either.

dj
Yeah. I meant the service adviser.
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  #55  
Old 09-03-2009, 04:50 PM
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You know, even though I don't own a 335i, I still have to be concerned about HPFP issues, because this issue is bringing down the whole freakin' brand, and anyone who says it's not isn't being truthful. BMW just may wind up last in the next JD Power survey. These surveys influence sales and if BMW sales go down the tubes, where do we go- to freakin' BMW-VW for service in a couple of years? It could happen.
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Last edited by hpowders; 09-03-2009 at 04:54 PM.
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2009, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
You know, even though I don't own a 335i, I still have to be concerned about HPFP issues, because this issue is bringing down the whole freakin' brand, and anyone who says it's not isn't being truthful. BMW just may wind up last in the next JD Power survey. These surveys influence sales and if BMW sales go down the tubes, where do we go- to freakin' BMW-VW for service in a couple of years? It could happen.
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  #57  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:02 PM
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What do you mean by "edging out in acceleration" ? Your definition of acceleration is 100ft, 0-60 or 1/4mile run? The cars in bold do not beat out the 335 in any of those.
Strictly 0-60. Correct, that list shows cars that the 335i beats, if by a slim margin for many of them.
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  #58  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:12 PM
dodell66 dodell66 is offline
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
You know, even though I don't own a 335i, I still have to be concerned about HPFP issues, because this issue is bringing down the whole freakin' brand, and anyone who says it's not isn't being truthful. BMW just may wind up last in the next JD Power survey. These surveys influence sales and if BMW sales go down the tubes, where do we go- to freakin' BMW-VW for service in a couple of years? It could happen.
As an actual owner of a 335i I would like to thank you for your concern over the HPFP issue. Now, as an actual owner of a 335i I would like to say, and I think I speak for quite a few other actual 335i owners out there, we are WELL AWARE of how you feel about this issue and would like to ask you to stop opining on the issue EVERY TIME there is a new HPFP thread. For the life of me I cannot understand why you are so obsessed with an issue that does not even pertain to your car.

The HPFP issue is not going to sink the BMW brand. The last time I read a Consumer Reports review of the 3 Series there was not even a mention of the issue. It is unfortunate that actual 335i owners are still having to deal with this issue. BMW has stepped up and taken responsibility for the problem by extending the warranty on the part. BMW will eventually figure out what the problem is and they will correct it. Hopefully this occurs sooner than later.

Continuing to complain about the issue serves no productive purpose and takes up too much space in the forum.
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  #59  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dodell66 View Post
As an actual owner of a 335i I would like to thank you for your concern over the HPFP issue. Now, as an actual owner of a 335i I would like to say, and I think I speak for quite a few other actual 335i owners out there, we are WELL AWARE of how you feel about this issue and would like to ask you to stop opining on the issue EVERY TIME there is a new HPFP thread. For the life of me I cannot understand why you are so obsessed with an issue that does not even pertain to your car.

The HPFP issue is not going to sink the BMW brand. The last time I read a Consumer Reports review of the 3 Series there was not even a mention of the issue. It is unfortunate that actual 335i owners are still having to deal with this issue. BMW has stepped up and taken responsibility for the problem by extending the warranty on the part. BMW will eventually figure out what the problem is and they will correct it. Hopefully this occurs sooner than later.

Continuing to complain about the issue serves no productive purpose and takes up too much space in the forum.
Amen brother!
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2009, 08:57 PM
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Why doesn't BMW have a radio station to inform folks about the latest attempts to fix HPFP problems?

The call letters could be WHPFP AM and WHPFP FM in NYC and KHPFP AM and KHPFP FM in LA.

The frequencies 335.1 and 535.1 are currently not being used on the AM dial in either city. 135.4 FM is also available in both cities.

It would be a very, very, very, very, very, very, very nice touch.... maybe break it up a little with some hip hop....
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Last edited by hpowders; 09-03-2009 at 09:11 PM.
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  #61  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Why doesn't BMW have a radio station to inform folks about the latest attempts to fix HPFP problems?

The call letters could be WHPFP AM and WHPFP FM in NYC and KHPFP AM and KHPFP FM in LA.

The frequencies 335.1 and 535.1 are currently not being used on the AM dial in either city. 135.4 FM is also available in both cities.

It would be a very, very, very, very, very, very, very nice touch. It vould alzo show gut vil, no?
Have you been skipping your meds again?
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Why doesn't BMW have a radio station to inform folks about the latest attempts to fix HPFP problems?

The call letters could be WHPFP AM and WHPFP FM in NYC and KHPFP AM and KHPFP FM in LA.

The frequencies 335.1 and 535.1 are currently not being used on the AM dial in either city. 135.4 FM is also available in both cities.

It would be a very, very, very, very, very, very, very nice touch. It vould alzo show gut vil, no?
I bet I know what preset #1 would be on your radio...
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:53 PM
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Why doesn't BMW have a radio station to inform folks about the latest attempts to fix HPFP problems?
...It would be a very, very, very, very, very, very, very nice touch.... maybe break it up a little with some hip hop....
Nah, some old blues like "Walkin' Shoes".
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  #64  
Old 09-03-2009, 09:55 PM
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Nah, some old blues like "Walkin' Shoes".
I'm goin' to get my suede bucs out of the closet right now!

Something tells me the violin guy isn't actually playing hip hop... maybe "Heard It in a Love Song."
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  #65  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:57 PM
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It's because of all the complaints, all the uphill fights by people disgusted with BMW's response, and after a long period of time, that BMWNA finally agreed there is an issue.
More likely: BMW avoids a very public government mandated recall by extending their warranty. A significant number of complaints vs. sales, to NHTSA, are taken seriously.

Check http://www.recalls.gov/nhtsa.html

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OP, this link's dead: http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/attachment...mer_Letter.pdf


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  #66  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:05 AM
MarcusSanDiego MarcusSanDiego is offline
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
But the sales guy has a vested interest in not deliberately inflating the extent of the problem. Maybe the dude is asking because he has friends (doubt it) or relatives (no choice, they are stuck with "him") who heard about the problem, are concerned and are potential purchasers of a 335i. Why would he exaggerate the extent of the problem and risk turning away potential buyers that this despicable person may know?
I was under the impression that the SA said it to an owner of a 335. Someone who already bought the car -- not someone who was thinking about buying the car. I wouldn't expect the SA to say something like that to a would-be buyer.

If Joeb427 had been a prospective purchaser, you might have something. But, because the SA was talking to someone who already has it (and already has his own opinions about the extent of the HPFP problem), I'd say I'm safer being skeptical.

Meanwhile, that's not to say I have my head buried in the sand. There are problems with these HPFPs (of course). But 30-40%? That seems like recall territory to me. At that level, you'd want to bring all of them in and just correct the problem -- before someone breaks down on the freeway and gets killed.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:08 AM
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I was under the impression that the SA said it to an owner of a 335. Someone who already bought the car -- not someone who was thinking about buying the car. I wouldn't expect the SA to say something like that to a would-be buyer.

If Joeb427 had been a prospective purchaser, you might have something. But, because the SA was talking to someone who already has it (and already has his own opinions about the extent of the HPFP problem), I'd say I'm safer being skeptical.

Meanwhile, that's not to say I have my head buried in the sand. There are problems with these HPFPs (of course). But 30-40%? That seems like recall territory to me. At that level, you'd want to bring all of them in and just correct the problem -- before someone breaks down on the freeway and gets killed.

Correct.I already bought the 335 and was talking to the SA about an installion cost of a mod.
30-40% seems high because there hasn't been any articles on the problem in magazines or other media.

Last edited by Joeb427; 09-04-2009 at 07:16 AM.
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  #68  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:55 AM
hpowders hpowders is offline
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I was under the impression that the SA said it to an owner of a 335. Someone who already bought the car -- not someone who was thinking about buying the car. I wouldn't expect the SA to say something like that to a would-be buyer.

If Joeb427 had been a prospective purchaser, you might have something. But, because the SA was talking to someone who already has it (and already has his own opinions about the extent of the HPFP problem), I'd say I'm safer being skeptical.

Meanwhile, that's not to say I have my head buried in the sand. There are problems with these HPFPs (of course). But 30-40%? That seems like recall territory to me. At that level, you'd want to bring all of them in and just correct the problem -- before someone breaks down on the freeway and gets killed.
Yes. What you say is certainly possible.

All I know is every time I wake up, dismiss the lady who shared my bed and brew my morning kona, I tune into BF and lo and behold, more new cases of HPFP failure. Now, this morning I read of this poor guy whose Labor Day plans are ruined; he can't get a loaner because he didn't buy the car there, etc; Can't one of these dealers bend a bit just out of simple human compassion of one person for another and give the guy a freakin' loaner for a half a day? Would it kill them to do so? Maybe because of that unexpected kindness, he will buy a car there in the future. GEEZ!!

The question is why hasn't BMW issued a recall? Sounds like a group law-suit against BMW may be one way to go. Maybe the lemon law has to be actively pursued by everyone touched by this problem. This has been going on since the 2007 models and BMW has not satisfactorily addressed the problem.

Some day in the future, when highway speed limits are removed and I can drive 100 mph without feeling like a hunted criminal, I may want to buy a 335i or a Porsche Cayman S-but that won't happen if I feel the vehicle has inherent mechanical problems.

This is a real shame.
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  #69  
Old 09-04-2009, 07:56 AM
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As a counterpoint, my dealer's SERVICE MANAGER - the guy in charge of the whole service department - told me they see a 1% HPFP failure rate. Although, he admitted I was the only customer to come in for a threepeat.
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  #70  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Yes. What you say is certainly possible.

All I know is every time I wake up, dismiss the lady who shared my bed and brew my morning kona, I tune into BF and lo and behold, more new cases of HPFP failure. Now, this morning I read of this poor guy whose Labor Day plans are ruined; he can't get a loaner because he didn't buy the car there, etc; Can't one of these dealers bend a bit just out of simple human compassion of one person to another and give the guy a freakin' loaner for a half a day? Would it kill them to do so? GEEZ!!

The question is why hasn't BMW issued a recall? Sounds like a group law-suit against BMW may be the only way to go. Maybe the lemon law.This has been going on since the 2007 models and they can't fix it?

Some day in the future, when highway speed limits are removed and I can drive 100 mph without feeling like a hunted criminal, I may want to buy a 335i or a Porsche Cayman S-but that won't happen if I feel the vehicle has inherent mechanical problems.

This is a real shame.
The thing is most people will come to the vehicle's board with a problem and looking for answers.
Every vehicle forum has people posting their problems.Every one.
Is there a HPFP problem?No doubt about it but we really can't get a percentage going by people on forums.The problem seems a lot worse than it may be.
I will say I think the percentage has to be at least 15% possibly higher.If the % number was much higher,we couldn't get a maintenance appt at the dealer.The bays would be full of vehicles needing FPs.
There's a lot of X35 N54 vehicles out there.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:08 AM
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There has been lots of comments about BMW should issue a recall. Ignoring the legalese for a moment of what constitutes a recall, what exactly would a recall accomplish? What is the expectation? Please enlighten me.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Yes. What you say is certainly possible.

All I know is every time I wake up, dismiss the lady who shared my bed and brew my morning kona, I tune into BF and lo and behold, more new cases of HPFP failure. Now, this morning I read of this poor guy whose Labor Day plans are ruined; he can't get a loaner because he didn't buy the car there, etc; Can't one of these dealers bend a bit just out of simple human compassion of one person to another and give the guy a freakin' loaner for a half a day? Would it kill them to do so? GEEZ!!

The question is why hasn't BMW issued a recall? Sounds like a group law-suit against BMW may be the only way to go. Maybe the lemon law.This has been going on since the 2007 models and they can't fix it?

Some day in the future, when highway speed limits are removed and I can drive 100 mph without feeling like a hunted criminal, I may want to buy a 335i or a Porsche Cayman S-but that won't happen if I feel the vehicle has inherent mechanical problems.

This is a real shame.
In a perfect world, every dealer would provide a free loaner. Alas, this one does not. If I owned the dealership, I'd provide loaners -- at no cost -- to all BMW customers. Even if you didn't buy your car at my dealer, you might buy your next one at my dealer. By charging my non-purchasing customers $10 or more a day, I might be alienating future customers.

As for a lawsuit, I think you're most likely to see a tort claim brought. Someone is going to get rear ended on the freeway after the car dies. BMW is well aware of these HPFP failures. When you have enough failures, and you know that these cars are dying at terrible spots, a jury could find that BMW was negligent for not replacing these pumps across the board. An injured person could prove up the case if this problem is more widespread than we believe.

BMW's lawyers know this as well, which is why I believe that the HPFP situation is not as dire as some believe. To this point, BMW's bean counters have figured out that it is cheaper to deal with these on a case by case basis. At some point, the bean counters could determine that it's smarter to do a recall. It's really about dollars and cents.

When the dollars and cents equation favors a recall, you'll see one.

Of course, I'm thinking that BMW can't even do a recall until it finds a fuel pump that is reliable. As far as I can tell, even the new pumps are failing.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:19 AM
hpowders hpowders is offline
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Originally Posted by MarcusSanDiego View Post
In a perfect world, every dealer would provide a free loaner. Alas, this one does not. If I owned the dealership, I'd provide loaners -- at no cost -- to all BMW customers. Even if you didn't buy your car at my dealer, you might buy your next one at my dealer. By charging my non-purchasing customers $10 or more a day, I might be alienating future customers.

As for a lawsuit, I think you're most likely to see a tort claim brought. Someone is going to get rear ended on the freeway after the car dies. BMW is well aware of these HPFP failures. When you have enough failures, and you know that these cars are dying at terrible spots, a jury could find that BMW was negligent for not replacing these pumps across the board. An injured person could prove up the case if this problem is more widespread than we believe.

BMW's lawyers know this as well, which is why I believe that the HPFP situation is not as dire as some believe. To this point, BMW's bean counters have figured out that it is cheaper to deal with these on a case by case basis. At some point, the bean counters could determine that it's smarter to do a recall. It's really about dollars and cents.

When the dollars and cents equation favors a recall, you'll see one.

Of course, I'm thinking that BMW can't even do a recall until it finds a fuel pump that is reliable. As far as I can tell, even the new pumps are failing.
Your post makes a lot of sense. I hope you are right.

Unfortunately, BMW may come up with a satisfactory solution if someone dies as a result of HPFP failure and gets sued for millions. They can't claim they didn't know about it. They may be underestimating the urgency of the problem.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcusSanDiego View Post
In a perfect world, every dealer would provide a free loaner. Alas, this one does not. If I owned the dealership, I'd provide loaners -- at no cost -- to all BMW customers. Even if you didn't buy your car at my dealer, you might buy your next one at my dealer. By charging my non-purchasing customers $10 or more a day, I might be alienating future customers.

As for a lawsuit, I think you're most likely to see a tort claim brought. Someone is going to get rear ended on the freeway after the car dies. BMW is well aware of these HPFP failures. When you have enough failures, and you know that these cars are dying at terrible spots, a jury could find that BMW was negligent for not replacing these pumps across the board. An injured person could prove up the case if this problem is more widespread than we believe.

BMW's lawyers know this as well, which is why I believe that the HPFP situation is not as dire as some believe. To this point, BMW's bean counters have figured out that it is cheaper to deal with these on a case by case basis. At some point, the bean counters could determine that it's smarter to do a recall. It's really about dollars and cents.

When the dollars and cents equation favors a recall, you'll see one.

Of course, I'm thinking that BMW can't even do a recall until it finds a fuel pump that is reliable. As far as I can tell, even the new pumps are failing.
The new pumps seem worse.
A lot of '09s and repeat failures on other years.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:35 AM
MarcusSanDiego MarcusSanDiego is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeb427 View Post
The new pumps seem worse.
A lot of '09s and repeat failures on other years.
Yep. I have an '09. Build date was January of this year. My HPFP failed at 4500 miles.
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