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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 F15 (2014 - Current)

X5 F15 (2014 - Current)
The all new F15 BMW X5 started production August 2013 as a 2014 model year. The new X5 arrives in sDrive35i (RWD), xDrive35i, xDrive50i and a diesel xDrive 35d.

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  #76  
Old 11-21-2016, 06:07 AM
smashmonkey smashmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by Super Canary View Post
What's the best combination I can use to maximize my mileage? I'd love to average in the 30s if possible. Eco Pro with auto eDrive? Or some combination to get me there using most of the electric and just eco pro the whole way back? Any advice appreciated. i will report back.
+1 what Guyinacar already said.

Try entering your daily commute in the navi as a 2 destination Trip:Work>Home. Leave the X5 in Comfort+Auto-Hybrid. The BMW is supposed to intelligently use the system to maximize efficiency.

I hate Eco-Pro mode. X5 is a big heavy 2.5 ton porker. If you're going to use it, be prepared to quickly move the shifter to the left to engage Sport mode for those "oh sh!t" driving situations.
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  #77  
Old 11-28-2016, 07:39 PM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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+1 to what smashmonkey said.

But I learned something else tonight. I experimented a little, based on smashmonkey's great hint. First I tried accelerating from a dead stop in EcoPro and Max_eDrive. That's 0-60 in about 30 seconds. Freight trains accelerate faster.

Then I tried the same thing, "flicking" the shifter to the left. As expected, it woke the gasser up, giving the full 300+ hp of acceleration. But that leaves you in Manual, so one more thing to fiddle with. Let's assume you're accelerating rapidly for a reason (e.g., while you're turning onto a major surface road, something has alarmed you over your left shoulder - like a car changing lanes into "your" lane). So maybe you don't want to look down and fiddle with buttons and shifters at your right knee. This has bothered/scared me on a few occasions.

Finally I started accelerating from a dead stop in EcoPro and Max_eDrive but added a "flick-flick" (left, right on the shifter stalk) about 1 second after flooring it. IMHO, that's the fastest "Oh, Sh!t" response to, say, an oncoming truck. It won't hold the shift points quite as much as Sport, but the inflight change from 30 seconds' acceleration to ~7 seconds is pretty dramatic. It literally thrusts the car forward when the N20 comes online and the turbos spool up. That "flick-flick" is also utterly intuitive. You don't have to look down to do it.

Then pick another mode later, when traffic allows. You can go back to Max_eDrive, for example.

I have no idea what kind of extra abuse this lays on the engine. In my case, it was well warmed up, since I'd just driven 150 miles. So I guess the appropriateness of the "flick-flick" trick depends on the situation. Given the choice between accelerating hard on a cold engine vs. getting rear-ended by some fool passing on the right at 60mph, I know which one I'd choose.

Last edited by guyinacar; 01-10-2017 at 06:26 PM.
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  #78  
Old 11-28-2016, 08:28 PM
smashmonkey smashmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
Then I tried the same thing, "flicking" the shifter to the left. As expected, it woke the gasser up, giving the full 300+ hp of acceleration. But that leaves you in Manual, so one more thing to fiddle with.
If I just flick the shifter to the left but do not move the stick back or forth, the transmission goes to Sport but will automatically shift. I can flick it left and just leave it there as I hammer the throttle. If I move the stick left then back/forth, the transmission will go to Manual and will not automatically shift unless there is an over rev problem.

FWIW using the button to shift to Sport will change the transmission and chassis and steering to sport mode. ICE will still stop at the light.

Moving the shifter left, only puts the transmission in Sport. Chassis and steering not changed. Auto start/stop is disabled.

In the morning I like to drive the first few miles with the engine running so the cold oil has a chance to warm up. Last thing I want is to have to hammer the throttle and all the oil is a frozen lump in the sump.
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  #79  
Old 11-30-2016, 07:35 PM
Super Canary Super Canary is offline
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Originally Posted by Super Canary View Post
guyinacar, others,

I am about to start using my wife's 40e for my commute, which is about 35 miles each way, up and over a hill with a spot or two of slow traffic. I cannot charge at work.

What's the best combination I can use to maximize my mileage? I'd love to average in the 30s if possible. Eco Pro with auto eDrive? Or some combination to get me there using most of the electric and just eco pro the whole way back? Any advice appreciated. i will report back.
TRIP REPORT

My first commute to work. Much of each trip with cruise control on. Average speed with traffic moving somewhere around 70 mph. And there's a decent climb in the middle of the drive. Needless to say, I'm pretty stoked.

Mode: Eco Pro, Auto eDrive

To work:

Leave with 98% charge
Consumption:37.9 mpg
Distance:36.0 mls
Trip time:45.0 min
Proportion of electric driving:30%
Arrive with 24% charge

From work:

Leave with 22% charge
Consumption:30.9 mpg
Distance:36.0 mls
Trip time:52.0 min
Proportion of electric driving:17%
Arrive with 5% charge (I was at 5% pretty quickly into the ride)

Basically averaged 35 mpg.

Tomorrow I will try something else. Not sure what yet. Happy to take requests.
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1977 Volkswagen Scrirocco
1983 Saab 900 Turbo (3 door)
1985 Saab 900S (4 door)
1990 325i 5 Speed Sedan (one of my favorite cars)
1969 Mercedes 280 SL - White with red interior
2007 Toyota RAV4 Limited
2003 325i Sedan
2016 328i Sedan
2016 X5 40e

Last edited by Super Canary; 11-30-2016 at 07:36 PM.
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  #80  
Old 12-05-2016, 07:06 PM
Super Canary Super Canary is offline
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For my 72 mile RT commute, turns out Comfort with Auto eDrive is just a tad less efficient than Eco Pro with Auto eDrive. Somewhere around 5%.
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1977 Volkswagen Scrirocco
1983 Saab 900 Turbo (3 door)
1985 Saab 900S (4 door)
1990 325i 5 Speed Sedan (one of my favorite cars)
1969 Mercedes 280 SL - White with red interior
2007 Toyota RAV4 Limited
2003 325i Sedan
2016 328i Sedan
2016 X5 40e
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  #81  
Old 12-06-2016, 05:44 AM
mush10 mush10 is offline
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Hello Everyone

I have had me 40e since last Wednesday and still working on figuring out the best practices. I am struggling with maximizing the battery in the morning when I head out. If I set my time to leave about 1-1:30 earlier than I plan will that give me enough time to top off any energy used. I seem to be heading out with only 8/9 miles of range in the morning. I am using a standard 120 from my hours to charge overnight.

I have my first extended trip tomorrow into Thursday with it so looking at how it does with that.
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  #82  
Old 12-06-2016, 06:36 AM
smashmonkey smashmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by mush10 View Post
I am using a standard 120 from my hours to charge overnight.
How cold is the car? Is it in a garage or outside?

To be honest, the level 1 120V 12A EVSE is just not going to work well for when it's so cold you want the car preconditioned. Electric heat uses a lot of energy and at a max rate of 1,440 kW the EVSE just can't keep up.

I have a level 2 240V 16A EVSE charging at the max 3,700 kW. My garage is around 50F when the outside is 32F. I start preconditioning about 1 hour prior to actual driving to be sure the battery is back to 100%. So on an L1 that could mean 2-3 hours prior to actual driving. By that time the car may be cold again.

Maybe just fire up the ICE when on cold mornings to both heat the cabin and warm up the engine.

Last edited by smashmonkey; 12-06-2016 at 06:39 AM.
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  #83  
Old 12-06-2016, 01:04 PM
Super Canary Super Canary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashmonkey View Post
How cold is the car? Is it in a garage or outside?

To be honest, the level 1 120V 12A EVSE is just not going to work well for when it's so cold you want the car preconditioned. Electric heat uses a lot of energy and at a max rate of 1,440 kW the EVSE just can't keep up.

I have a level 2 240V 16A EVSE charging at the max 3,700 kW. My garage is around 50F when the outside is 32F. I start preconditioning about 1 hour prior to actual driving to be sure the battery is back to 100%. So on an L1 that could mean 2-3 hours prior to actual driving. By that time the car may be cold again.

Maybe just fire up the ICE when on cold mornings to both heat the cabin and warm up the engine.
Also ensure that your default setting is for maximum charge. I think the default is for low. I think it's in Settings/Charging, or possibly Vehicle Info/Charging. Something like that. Took me a couple weeks to figure that out.
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1977 Volkswagen Scrirocco
1983 Saab 900 Turbo (3 door)
1985 Saab 900S (4 door)
1990 325i 5 Speed Sedan (one of my favorite cars)
1969 Mercedes 280 SL - White with red interior
2007 Toyota RAV4 Limited
2003 325i Sedan
2016 328i Sedan
2016 X5 40e
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  #84  
Old 12-06-2016, 01:06 PM
Super Canary Super Canary is offline
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Originally Posted by Super Canary View Post
For my 72 mile RT commute, turns out Comfort with Auto eDrive is just a tad less efficient than Eco Pro with Auto eDrive. Somewhere around 5%.
One more thing to add and it's generally true of all cars, I think. Use cruise control as much as possible. I get the sense that CC for acceleration and deceleration, particularly at freeway speeds, sips gas as opposed to your (or your wife's) lead foot.
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1977 Volkswagen Scrirocco
1983 Saab 900 Turbo (3 door)
1985 Saab 900S (4 door)
1990 325i 5 Speed Sedan (one of my favorite cars)
1969 Mercedes 280 SL - White with red interior
2007 Toyota RAV4 Limited
2003 325i Sedan
2016 328i Sedan
2016 X5 40e
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2016, 03:36 PM
mush10 mush10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashmonkey View Post
How cold is the car? Is it in a garage or outside?

To be honest, the level 1 120V 12A EVSE is just not going to work well for when it's so cold you want the car preconditioned. Electric heat uses a lot of energy and at a max rate of 1,440 kW the EVSE just can't keep up.

I have a level 2 240V 16A EVSE charging at the max 3,700 kW. My garage is around 50F when the outside is 32F. I start preconditioning about 1 hour prior to actual driving to be sure the battery is back to 100%. So on an L1 that could mean 2-3 hours prior to actual driving. By that time the car may be cold again.

Maybe just fire up the ICE when on cold mornings to both heat the cabin and warm up the engine.


Thanks. Maybe I will upgrade to a 240v. I am in the Northeast so it will get pretty cold this winter. I will keep playing around and see if I can find the sweet spot.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  #86  
Old 12-07-2016, 04:30 PM
X5_XPRESS X5_XPRESS is offline
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LOVE preheating the 40e in the morning and when I leave work.

Great feature and happy it works better than my Volt which defaults to the HVAC setting that was active when you last shut the car off.
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  #87  
Old 12-08-2016, 03:33 AM
mush10 mush10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Super Canary View Post
One more thing to add and it's generally true of all cars, I think. Use cruise control as much as possible. I get the sense that CC for acceleration and deceleration, particularly at freeway speeds, sips gas as opposed to your (or your wife's) lead foot.


Do you guys find cruise in comfort mode sometimes over accelerates? I have ACC and I notice if I am in traffic and a car in front on me pulls out the car tends to accelerate aggressively up to the next vehicle and that causes the need for it to brake harder than I would do so normally.
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  #88  
Old 12-12-2016, 02:19 AM
copello copello is offline
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Silly question ?

That could be a silly question....
I do not have a charging station at the garage where my car will sit every night; charging stations are not available at the place I work (sounds strange but that is the case...)
So the question is : can I ride the 40e like a standard hybrid' not caring at recharging (of course I understand form all comments that this is not what you should be doing with a rechargeable hybrid, hence the title of my post...)
Thanks for all your experienced feedbacks !
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  #89  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:37 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Originally Posted by copello View Post
...can I ride the 40e like a standard hybrid' not caring at recharging
Um, mostly. I 'drive [it] like a standard hybrid" at least once a week, because I often drive to hotels hundreds of miles away, where I know there are no chargers. In fact, I'll be doing it about an hour. But I have to think ahead.

Standard hybrids are idiot-proof. You can rent a Prius from Hertz, and drive it like you were never told about its hybrid-ness (hybridity?). The engineers who make PHEVs, however, make a design assumption that they will be plugged in pretty much daily. So you'd want to add the extra step of overcoming the engineers' design assumption manually. You do that by pushing the eDrive button into "Save[battery]" mode, and then making appropriate choices about Sport/Comfort/EcoPro as you drive. You can also drop out of "Save[battery]" mode, should traffic or your preference require it. And you have to make that choice every time you get in the car. It's not sticky.

If you seriously can't *EVER* plug in, then perhaps the 35d or 35i might be a better vehicle choice for you. Keep in mind, you can plug it into any ol' wall outlet - it just takes longer to charge, and you'd want to do that someplace likely to be free from vandalism and theft.

But, yes, you can drive it as if it's a non-pluggable hybrid. Your mileage will suffer, and it will be more fiddly. That's how my wife, galinacar, drives it.

Last edited by guyinacar; 12-12-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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  #90  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:44 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Oh, and you're in Europe. I just noticed that. So many (all?) wall outlets in Europe are ALREADY what we call an "L2 EVSE" here in North America. We run residential at 120v nominal. You have 240v already, in all likelihood, at both ends of your commute. There are several rather portable L2 EVSEs on the market for that scenario, and I wouldn't be surprised if you already have a free one in the boot.

Edit: Sorry, I should've been more precise with my language. You still need to have an EVSE at/near your 240v wall outlet. Technically speaking, the EVSE provides several key signaling and safety functions. For us in North America, the hard part is usually getting the 240v outlet in the first place. For you, it's the easy part.

Since you have to convince your condo peeps to install something, you might want to take a look at the shared-service model of ClipperCreek and JuiceBox in the new 40A models, and wire accordingly. Both of manufacturers have load-sharing options:

https://store.clippercreek.com/new/S...HCS-40R-Bundle
https://emotorwerks.com/images/solut...re-2016-06.pdf

If you wire cleverly today, you might get a little future-proofing.

Last edited by guyinacar; 12-12-2016 at 04:23 AM.
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  #91  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:48 AM
copello copello is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
Oh, and you're in Europe. I just noticed that. So many (all?) wall outlets in Europe are ALREADY what we call an "L2 EVSE" here in North America. We run residential at 120v nominal. You have 240v already, in all likelihood, at both ends of your commute. There are several rather portable L2 EVSEs on the market for that scenario, and I wouldn't be surprised if you already have a free one in the boot.
Thanks again for all your precise comments :
- 35i comes as expensive as 40e due to C02 Taxes
- 35d could be banned from some capital cities in Europe by 2020... Not friendly times for Diesels...
I definitely have to convince neighbours to provide sockets in the condominium garage...
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  #92  
Old 12-12-2016, 04:34 AM
oseldusan oseldusan is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
+1 to what smashmonkey said.

But I learned something else tonight. I experimented a little, based on smashmonkey's great hint. First I tried accelerating from a dead stop in EcoPro and Max_eDrive. That's 0-60 in about 30 seconds. Freight trains accelerate faster.

Then I tried the same thing, "flicking" the shifter to the left. As expected, it woke the gasser up, giving the full 300+ hp of acceleration. But that leaves you in Manual, so one more thing to fiddle with. Let's assume you're accelerating rapidly for a reason (e.g., while you're turning onto a major surface road, something has alarmed you over your left shoulder - like a car changing lanes into "your" lane). So maybe you don't want to look down and fiddle with buttons and shifters at your right knee. This has bothered/scared me on a few occasions.

Finally I started accelerating from a dead stop in EcoPro and Max_eDrive but added a "flick-flick" (left, right on the shifter stalk) about 1 second after flooring it. IMHO, that's the fastest "Oh, Sh!t" response to, say, an oncoming truck. It won't hold the shift points quite as much as Sport, but the inflight change from 30 seconds' acceleration to ~7 seconds is pretty dramatic. It literally thrusts the car forward when the N20 comes online and the turbos spool up. That "flick-flick" is also utterly intuitive. You don't have to look down to do it.

Then pick another mode later, when traffic allows. You can go back to Max_eDrive, for example.

I have no idea what kind of extra abuse this lays on the engine. In my case, it was well warmed up, since I'd just driven 150 miles. So I guess the appropriateness of the "flick-flick" trick depends on the situation. Given the choice between accelerating hard on a cold engine vs. getting rear-ended by some fool passing on the left at 60mph, I know which one I'd choose.
Hi guys .
If I choose EcoPro and Max_eDrive and then I will press accellerator completelly down , it will not start gas engine ? Is there "kick down" position on accellerator pedal as it is on standart bmw, which which will force tramsmission to change level ? Thanks.
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  #93  
Old 12-12-2016, 04:38 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Originally Posted by copello View Post
Thanks again for all your precise comments :

- 35d could be banned from some capital cities in Europe by 2020... Not friendly times for Diesels...
Yeah, and none too soon. I'm old enough to remember when they cleaned Notre Dame in Paris, probably for the first time since WWII. I recall thinking: "Holy Crap, it's cream-colored!!" I always thought it was black. Beautiful, yes, but black. It's actually white under there, just covered with particulate crud from 1950 to 1990, mostly from diesel emissions.

BTW, for our European friends who don't understand why Americans don't entirely "get" CO2, we have strict controls on particulate emissions, but not so much on CO2. We solve that incidentally, by making things like the 40e and hybrid buses. North America can absorb an awful lot of carbon dioxide, but smog used to be an issue in cities. Europe has strict controls on CO2, but not so much on particulate emissions. It's the reverse. We're just beginning to see each other's point-of-view.
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  #94  
Old 12-12-2016, 04:40 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Originally Posted by oseldusan View Post
Hi guys .
If I choose EcoPro and Max_eDrive and then I will press accellerator completelly down , it will not start gas engine ? Is there "kick down" position on accellerator pedal as it is on standart bmw, which which will force tramsmission to change level ? Thanks.
I don't think so, no. Hence the flick-flick with the wrist.

Actually, you've used an interesting turn-of-phrase. Yes, the transmission will kick down. But you're kicking down into a lower gear with ~100hp on tap, in a 2.5 ton vehicle. It will move out with all the authority of a steamship. The flick-flick also brings the gas engine online, in addition to whatever the tranny does. Now it's a 300+ hp vehicle in a lower gear, and it's fast.

Last edited by guyinacar; 12-12-2016 at 04:44 AM.
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  #95  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:27 AM
oseldusan oseldusan is offline
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Originally Posted by guyinacar View Post
Yeah, and none too soon. I'm old enough to remember when they cleaned Notre Dame in Paris, probably for the first time since WWII. I recall thinking: "Holy Crap, it's cream-colored!!" I always thought it was black. Beautiful, yes, but black. It's actually white under there, just covered with particulate crud from 1950 to 1990, mostly from diesel emissions.

BTW, for our European friends who don't understand why Americans don't entirely "get" CO2, we have strict controls on particulate emissions, but not so much on CO2. We solve that incidentally, by making things like the 40e and hybrid buses. North America can absorb an awful lot of carbon dioxide, but smog used to be an issue in cities. Europe has strict controls on CO2, but not so much on particulate emissions. It's the reverse. We're just beginning to see each other's point-of-view.
As I know here in Europe we also have strict controls on particulate emissions. Every personal car made in EU have to have DPF from 2014. Not sure about trucks. Even my 2007 bmw has it. On emission control ( every 2 years I have to go ) it shows 0 particles per cubic meter. Some countries ( Germany ) is controlling entries to cities. You need special sticker ( green, yelow, red ) depending on emissions. If you do not have green one you cannot enter city center. There is comming restriction in EU , which says, that you cannot get new car, if it has only gas/diesel engine. I am not sure when it will come. I remember 2030.
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  #96  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:39 AM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Yep, seems like the EU and US are converging. Thanks for the details!
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  #97  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:33 PM
smashmonkey smashmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by copello View Post
So the question is : can I ride the 40e like a standard hybrid' not caring at recharging (of course I understand form all comments that this is not what you should be doing with a rechargeable hybrid, hence the title of my post...)
You can definitely drive the X5 40e like a regular hybrid. But you will only get approx 25 mpg/10.6 km/L average. The battery never goes completely to 0%. It will stay <10% and still be able to provide a little bit of electric motor boost when accelerating the car from a stop.

You can charge the battery up to 50% in Save Mode, but that uses the ICE to recharge the battery and power the wheels, so your fuel economy will go down. That kind of defeats the purpose unless you need to build up battery charge to drive in a city congestion zone.

In order to get the best efficiency the X5 needs to be recharged as often as possible. Otherwise you would be basically carrying around extra 500 lbs/227 kg weight of the battery around for nothing. But it is not a requirement and will not cause any problems with the car. Maybe you can run a long extension cord at home or at work?

Last edited by smashmonkey; 06-18-2017 at 02:56 PM.
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  #98  
Old 12-13-2016, 02:09 AM
copello copello is offline
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Thanks for all adivces.

Another question I Have, coming from the Diesel world, is this one :

How reliable is the hybrid system with BMW. I remember the first hybrid BMWs (F10 5 Series and maybe previous gen X6) and my dealer kept telling me NOT to buy those cars because of high reliability issues....
What is your belief ?
Lexus dealers keep telling me that the Lithium technology is not as reliable as their technology... But who should we believe ? Any issues on 2015 cars ? Is there a special warranty on the hybrid systems ?
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:50 AM
oseldusan oseldusan is offline
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Originally Posted by copello View Post
Thanks for all adivces.

Another question I Have, coming from the Diesel world, is this one :

How reliable is the hybrid system with BMW. I remember the first hybrid BMWs (F10 5 Series and maybe previous gen X6) and my dealer kept telling me NOT to buy those cars because of high reliability issues....
What is your belief ?
Lexus dealers keep telling me that the Lithium technology is not as reliable as their technology... But who should we believe ? Any issues on 2015 cars ? Is there a special warranty on the hybrid systems ?
Hi . in Europe ( I think it will be same in USA ) you can buy 6 years/200k km warranty. It costs cca 3000 Euro for 100k Eoro car . I have it on my F10. If I remember correctly , there is 7 years warranty for Lion batteries even without additional money.
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  #100  
Old 12-13-2016, 06:52 AM
smashmonkey smashmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by copello View Post
How reliable is the hybrid system with BMW. I remember the first hybrid BMWs (F10 5 Series and maybe previous gen X6) and my dealer kept telling me NOT to buy those cars because of high reliability issues....
What is your belief ?. . . Is there a special warranty on the hybrid systems ?
Nobody knows because the 2016 X5 40e is the first BMW PHEV of this hybrid design.

Also, how reliable compared to other BMWs is a different question than how reliable compared to 1st generation Toyota Prius w/ NiMH battery.

USA X5 40e warranty is 4 year/50K miles. Li-ion battery 8 years/80K miles.

Average US consumer owns their new car 7 years. For BMWs I'll bet it's a little lower because the popularity of leases.
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