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Keeping Your 3 Series Origami Top in Tip Top Shape

743K views 564 replies 155 participants last post by  guaporas 
#1 · (Edited)
A special thanks to fun2drive for his huge contribution :thumbup::thumbup:

Okay folks, you asked for it, here it is. In response to everyone who has asked for a Sticky on how to maintain the seals and keep the moving parts of the convertible hardtop lubricated, fun2drive and I have put our heads together and assembled a DIY. Much of this is based on experience, but we have also tried to get as much input as possible from dealership service techs and the photo documentation included is the direct result of my E93 having just been in for a full dealership hardtop lubrication and adjustment.
We welcome contributions of tips and tricks picked up along the way. As always, comments and questions are great. The intent is to have a one-stop resource for people looking for information on keeping the folding hardtop well maintained and problem free.

Probably one of the greatest concerns of any E93 owner is how to keep their folding hardtop free of creaks, squeaks, wind noise and heaven forbid water leaks. If you own one, you are at least marginally aware that there are literally hundreds of parts in the form of seals, hinges, locks, hydraulics, and microswitches that must all work in perfect harmony to deliver the 22 seconds to nirvana top down experience. So, how to keep things running smoothly:

• Keep the rubber seals lubricated and moisturized.
• Secondly, but equally important is to keep the moving joints well lubricated and dust free.
• Listen to your top. For those who acquired their E93s new, think back to what the top sounded like when the car was brand new. If you acquired your car second hand, go to your local dealership and ask them if you can observe (that is listen) to the top of a brand new E93. It should be silky smooth with no squeaks, no jolts and no stickiness.
So, here are some tips and tricks to keeping your top in great shape.

Seal Lubrication:
There are two products routinely discussed when this topic comes up.

Gummi Pflege (which in German, literally translates to "Rubber Care") made by Einzett.

http://www.amazon.com/einszett-914806-Gummi-Pflege-Rubber/dp/B004B8GTQG

Krytox - specifically the GPL205 Grease made by Dupont. This is expensive stuff, but well worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Krytox+gpl205



A couple of words about products to use on rubber seals: Silicon is a natural enemy of rubber. It makes rubber swell and fracture. Whether your tires or your door seals - do your car a favor, spend the few extra dollars to get good products.

Rubber Seal Lubrication:

The rubber seals on your top are very similar to your skin. They need moisture and protection or they will dry out and eventually crack. At the very least they will shrink with dehydration, or prematurely break down due to UV damage.

Gummi Pflege: The applicator is a little bulky. I found the on board applicator to be overkill for the narrow strips of rubber that make up the E93 lateral top seals (those rubber seals running from driver to passenger side).
As an alternative, I use "foam lollipops" available from either Autogeek or Detailed Image. I moisten the lollipop with the Gummi Pflege then run it along the length of the seal including the grooved area. I follow with a microfiber wrapped sponge to help spread the Gummi evenly and mop up any puddles.

Krytox:
This is best applied using your fingers and a little really does go along way. The best description I can use here is watch your wife or girlfriend the next time she applies lip balm or lip gloss. She will take a little tiny bit on the tip of her finger and smooth it all the way over her lips. Same thing applies here. It takes just a little bit to be smoothed the length of the seal.
You need to keep going over the area until you have a uniform thin coating over the entire seal area.
If you live in a cold area of the country and are trying to do this at temperatures below 60F, take a terry face cloth and get it wet with hot water. Wring it out then wrap it around the syringe applicator and let it sit for a few minutes. This will gently warm the Krytox and make it easier to apply. Alternatively, if it is in the tube, let it sit in a coffee mug of hot water for a few minutes to SOFTEN it.
DON'T stick it in the microwave. If you liquefy it, you may alter its properties.

So now that you know what to use and how to apply it, where does it go? For the seals that is pretty easy. If it's black and rubbery (soft and slightly squishy) and it's on either the front or rear edge of one of the top panels or it is between the front and rear passenger windows it is fair game. Pictures do a far better job of explaining it so here they are. Don't forget to use a little Krytox along the area where the side view mirrors mate with the A pillar.

















A quick word about the tensioning cords. While these are not something that can be lubricated or treated per se, it is of value to inspect them for wear. It seems that around MY 2011, the cords were upgraded to a more robust version as earlier cars exhibited fraying of these cords. My 2009 had the cords replaced under warranty in August 2011.
This is what the frayed cords look like and the points where they are the most visible.









The replaced cords are not as silky looking and are holding up much better.



Now for the hinges, locks, pins and slides: fun2drive is going to explain about lubricants and application techniques. We had a fortuitous photo -op in that my E93's top had developed a nasty little squeak and a bit of a catch or sticky spot when being returned to closed from the stowed (top open) position. It went to the dealership for a full lubrication. The photos were taken the day after the service visit, so we have a pretty clear understanding of the lube points as specified by BMW.
 
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#262 ·
Great post, I immediately joined the forum and made a donation solely based on this topic. The information and pictures offered here are incredible. Thanks for the time and effort to everyone who posted. I just purchased a 07 335i and was looking for some info on the top, this is way more than I expected to find.
 
#263 ·
Welcome to the 'fest and congrats on your new acquisition. Thanks also for the positive feedback.

New insight is always welcome.
 
#264 ·
E93 hard top lubrication

Please let me add my extreme appreciation to Nordic Cat (in Texas?) and Fun2Drive for all the fantastic, detailed, and beautifully illustrated information.

I bought my E93 (2008) a year ago, with the CPO warranty, and the dealer said there was absolutely nothing I should do to maintain the hardtop. Having somewhat of an engineering background and having been in the Navy, I knew better.

Fortunately I have had no serious issues to date, but I'm very concerned about all the moving parts. The lubrication guide you have laid out will certainly help. I gather the Wurth lubricant is the consensus best candidate, right?

For those who may be reading that don't have an E93, I must say that this is a wonderful car. Living in MinneSNOWta with a long commute, this car did beautifully throughout a rugged Minnesota winter, and of course is delightful right now in the spring-like July we are having. I have the RWD version, and with Michelin Pilot Alpins it does beautifully in the snow.

Thank you again for the fine contribution to the E93 community.
 
#265 ·
Welcome to the community. My opinion is that the Wurth product while not easy to find and more expensive than most is the best overall lubricant because of its special properties of going on as a liquid, penetrates and then turning to grease that resists high temperature and pressure.
If you learn something about the E93 that you don't see posted please post so we can all collectively learn and keep our rides looking good and running good...
 
#267 ·
So thanks to this site and the excellent write up (downloaded the PDF and keeping a copy of that!), I've got the gummi and the lubricant on the way...

My question is (I hope) a simple one. Before applying the protectant to the rubber seals, I'd like to clean them. Is 303 Aerospace a good product for this purpose, or should I avoid it? If not 303, what should I be using to clean the rubber/plastic etc type parts of the vehicle?

My sincere thanks for any advice or assistance you can offer.

Regards,
-Bouncer-
 
#268 ·
So thanks to this site and the excellent write up (downloaded the PDF and keeping a copy of that!), I've got the gummi and the lubricant on the way...

My question is (I hope) a simple one. Before applying the protectant to the rubber seals, I'd like to clean them. Is 303 Aerospace a good product for this purpose, or should I avoid it? If not 303, what should I be using to clean the rubber/plastic etc type parts of the vehicle?

My sincere thanks for any advice or assistance you can offer.

Regards,
-Bouncer-
Hi Bouncer,

Your question is a good one. Sometimes when we've had especially windy conditions, and I've driven through a lot of dust, I'll notice more dust build up. I wouldn't use a chemical product to clean the seals. Water is considered the 'universal solvent'.

It may be a bit of a tedious exercise, but I would probably just take some clear water and a tiny sponge or a damp microfiber cloth and methodically wipe down all the seals if they are dirty. If the dirt and dust is really stubborn, maybe a very dilute gentle soap solution. Use lubricating products afterward.

In the spring time, my seals tend to get a bit dirty from all the wind blowing, and I've always found just a wipe down with a damp microfiber cloth enough to get the grime off. However, I imagine you already know that I'm a bit on the extreme end of keeping up with the maintenance. My fear of using a chemical product to 'clean' the seals would be actually making things more gummy in the long run.
 
#271 ·
If you use the Wurth HHS-2000 product you don't need lithium grease since Wurth is doing the job. I have the other Wurth product for rubber seals but have not used it yet until I use up my GP and Krytox.
Just the awareness of the need to lube and condition the seals and the linkages will go far to keep your top working well. Products listed are some of the best but others will do fine as well.
 
#272 ·
Help with Tensioners Cables

Hi Kat,

I have an 07 335i c and have noted the same issue from your marvelous Maintenance Guide with fraying Tensioner cables. I've tried to find replacement cables and even asked my Dealer, (must confess that was a mistake) BMW wants to replace the entire Headliner in order to change out fraying cables to the tune of $1368 :eek:! Well not for me, sorry and unfortunately my CPO Warranty expired last year before I caught the problem. Also my extended warranty (not BMW) does not consider it to be a covered part naturally :rolleyes: so am left with a DIY approach, but attempting to find the proper part or parts has led nowhere.

Do you have any recommendations for this part and/or a part number? I've looked on Penske but its not real clear even though they indicate Tensioner, I can't tell.

Thanks for all your hard work on helping us maintain these Wonderful Cars. Its my daily ride rain, snow or SUN :)!

PS-I'm considering a 4 Series Convertible and would love your thoughts (probably a 428i X-drive since I don't have to travel too far daily.

Regards,

Dave
 
#275 ·
Thank You

Get yourself one of these and any local garage can fit it for you: http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/...internal-head-lining/3484244/54377277475.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archivist
Is someone pulling your leg at the dealership? We are talking about a 300-500 dollar repair with new strings. My advice is to check at other dealers and tell them you want the strings replaced only.
What is their reason for wanting to replace the headliner?
I would certainly be looking elsewhere as I would have no confidence in this dealer unless the SA can describe WHY this needs to be done...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you both for the great response. I was sure that a part could be found and for $ 16 no less for a silly piece of rope! If you stop the top in the middle of its opening/closing process, I'd bet I could thread the replacements myself!

I just sent a note to my SA responding with a "smack" to the head :mad: for this failure. I think the parts guy or tech needs a BIG one or the SA needs more Education! Anyway you look at it, the concept of replacing the Headliner for threads is and was ridiculous and not something I would have done under these circumstances! What a Joke!

Again, I truly appreciate the responses, thanks for the effort!

Dave
 
#274 ·
Archivist
Is someone pulling your leg at the dealership? We are talking about a 300-500 dollar repair with new strings. My advice is to check at other dealers and tell them you want the strings replaced only.
What is their reason for wanting to replace the headliner?
I would certainly be looking elsewhere as I would have no confidence in this dealer unless the SA can describe WHY this needs to be done...
 
#279 ·
Hey E93 people,

This is off topic, but I recently coded my E93 so I can open/close the top while in motion. What a nice upgrade! I already had comfort access, but being able to drop the top when arriving somewhere or leaving the house is a great convenience. I was considering buying the smarttop module, but with this I don't think I'll spend the money on it.

Happy motoring!
 
#281 ·
I coded my e93 using BMWHAT as well a few days ago to drop the top while moving and love it, that app is great. I emailed them to ask about one touch operation for the roof, i would really like that, I got a response that a developer will look into it. I'll hold off on the smart top, looks like a complicated install and its expensive
 
#284 ·
A special thanks to fun2drive for his huge contribution :thumbup::thumbup:

Okay folks, you asked for it, here it is. In response to everyone who has asked for a Sticky on how to maintain the seals and keep the moving parts of the convertible hardtop lubricated, fun2drive and I have put our heads together and assembled a DIY. Much of this is based on experience, but we have also tried to get as much input as possible from dealership service techs and the photo documentation included is the direct result of my E93 having just been in for a full dealership hardtop lubrication and adjustment.
We welcome contributions of tips and tricks picked up along the way. As always, comments and questions are great. The intent is to have a one-stop resource for people looking for information on keeping the folding hardtop well maintained and problem free.

Probably one of the greatest concerns of any E93 owner is how to keep their folding hardtop free of creaks, squeaks, wind noise and heaven forbid water leaks. If you own one, you are at least marginally aware that there are literally hundreds of parts in the form of seals, hinges, locks, hydraulics, and microswitches that must all work in perfect harmony to deliver the 22 seconds to nirvana top down experience. So, how to keep things running smoothly:

• Keep the rubber seals lubricated and moisturized.
• Secondly, but equally important is to keep the moving joints well lubricated and dust free.
• Listen to your top. For those who acquired their E93s new, think back to what the top sounded like when the car was brand new. If you acquired your car second hand, go to your local dealership and ask them if you can observe (that is listen) to the top of a brand new E93. It should be silky smooth with no squeaks, no jolts and no stickiness.
So, here are some tips and tricks to keeping your top in great shape.

Seal Lubrication:
There are two products routinely discussed when this topic comes up.

Gummi Pflege (which in German, literally translates to "Rubber Care") made by Einzett.

http://www.amazon.com/einszett-914806-Gummi-Pflege-Rubber/dp/B004B8GTQG

Krytox - specifically the GPL205 Grease made by Dupont. This is expensive stuff, but well worth every penny.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Krytox+gpl205



A couple of words about products to use on rubber seals: Silicon is a natural enemy of rubber. It makes rubber swell and fracture. Whether your tires or your door seals - do your car a favor, spend the few extra dollars to get good products.

Rubber Seal Lubrication:

The rubber seals on your top are very similar to your skin. They need moisture and protection or they will dry out and eventually crack. At the very least they will shrink with dehydration, or prematurely break down due to UV damage.

Gummi Pflege: The applicator is a little bulky. I found the on board applicator to be overkill for the narrow strips of rubber that make up the E93 lateral top seals (those rubber seals running from driver to passenger side).
As an alternative, I use "foam lollipops" available from either Autogeek or Detailed Image. I moisten the lollipop with the Gummi Pflege then run it along the length of the seal including the grooved area. I follow with a microfiber wrapped sponge to help spread the Gummi evenly and mop up any puddles.

Krytox:
This is best applied using your fingers and a little really does go along way. The best description I can use here is watch your wife or girlfriend the next time she applies lip balm or lip gloss. She will take a little tiny bit on the tip of her finger and smooth it all the way over her lips. Same thing applies here. It takes just a little bit to be smoothed the length of the seal.
You need to keep going over the area until you have a uniform thin coating over the entire seal area.
If you live in a cold area of the country and are trying to do this at temperatures below 60F, take a terry face cloth and get it wet with hot water. Wring it out then wrap it around the syringe applicator and let it sit for a few minutes. This will gently warm the Krytox and make it easier to apply. Alternatively, if it is in the tube, let it sit in a coffee mug of hot water for a few minutes to SOFTEN it.
DON'T stick it in the microwave. If you liquefy it, you may alter its properties.

So now that you know what to use and how to apply it, where does it go? For the seals that is pretty easy. If it's black and rubbery (soft and slightly squishy) and it's on either the front or rear edge of one of the top panels or it is between the front and rear passenger windows it is fair game. Pictures do a far better job of explaining it so here they are. Don't forget to use a little Krytox along the area where the side view mirrors mate with the A pillar.

















A quick word about the tensioning cords. While these are not something that can be lubricated or treated per se, it is of value to inspect them for wear. It seems that around MY 2011, the cords were upgraded to a more robust version as earlier cars exhibited fraying of these cords. My 2009 had the cords replaced under warranty in August 2011.
This is what the frayed cords look like and the points where they are the most visible.









The replaced cords are not as silky looking and are holding up much better.



Now for the hinges, locks, pins and slides: fun2drive is going to explain about lubricants and application techniques. We had a fortuitous photo -op in that my E93's top had developed a nasty little squeak and a bit of a catch or sticky spot when being returned to closed from the stowed (top open) position. It went to the dealership for a full lubrication. The photos were taken the day after the service visit, so we have a pretty clear understanding of the lube points as specified by BMW.
NICE DIY!!! thanks
 
#285 ·
Thanks for this information. I unfortunately have a leaky roof--just learned it could be a. $5,800 rair at the dealer and my local independent shop is not familiar with the repair. Any idea if this seal lubrication would aid in Loy leak problem? My seals appear to be in tip-top shape; no tears, cracks, bunching, etc.

Also, does anybody know where I can get the new tensioner cables that Kay showed as fraying? Mine are frayed and I'd like to replace.

2008 e93 m3 with 71k miles.
 
#286 ·
Thanks for this information. I unfortunately have a leaky roof--just learned it could be a. $5,800 rair at the dealer and my local independent shop is not familiar with the repair. Any idea if this seal lubrication would aid in Loy leak problem? My seals appear to be in tip-top shape; no tears, cracks, bunching, etc.

Also, does anybody know where I can get the new tensioner cables that Kay showed as fraying? Mine are frayed and I'd like to replace.

2008 e93 m3 with 71k miles.
 
#290 ·
To add to Kat's post the drains also have a check valve in them so be careful if you go to clean them out.
Lubing the seals is recommended and if I was looking at your number I could clean the seals and lubricate once every week for a month before giving up. Could well be that the top needs an adjustment or replacement of parts.
However big caution here
BMW is in the business of selling service and parts. They make their money on service and parts not selling cars. I would really be asking what they are replacing and why.

They could be doing right by you but unless your top has destroyed itself somehow I would proceed with caution...

My top is an early as in March 2007 E93 with no leaks...
 
#291 ·
No leak -of anything- should be "repaired" without first knowing precisely where the leak originates, what the cause is, and how the proposed fix will ameliorate the problem. For BMW or anyone else to tell you that they can repair the leak with a $5800 cost, and not first tell you where the leak is and why it is leaking is balderdash. Kat, Squiddie and fun2drive are going about it right. By following their suggestions it is likely you will end up with a satisfactory repair, and for far less money.
Locate the leak, identify the cause, post same, and you'll get some great help in resolving the issue.
 
#292 ·
Thanks Kat and fun2drive for the information and advice. I did not know that there was a drain in the C pillar,--i'll do some poking around in the trunk and top mechanism this weekend.

I haven't spent much time poking around in there since I bought the car in August so I'll get better acquainted with it all and do some more research.

I do plan on taking it to the dealership for a proper visual inspection and diagnosis, but I do not have any intention on shelling out $5,800 before I see evidence of the cause or get some practical explanation. I have completed a few major overhaul projects on some of my cars in the past (full windows out restoration, engine swap, body work, etc.) so I do have some sort of understanding of how these things work and are put together--I don't plan on letting the dealership lead me like a blind man.
 
#293 · (Edited)
Kopasz,

Here is a diagram of the water drain in the C-Pillar. This might help you correlate where you are seeing/feeling your leak spots.



The other thing I thought about is there is a channel that runs through part of the c-pillar that has a foam insert (kind of like a pool floaty ("noodle") stuffed into it. A few years ago ThunderDump posted his noodle was drooping. I've had my noodle droop at least once and pushed it back into place. If the previous owner of the car had the noodle go droopy and pulled it out rather than pushed it back in, it may have caused the problem you are now experiencing. I am sorry I can't give you better search terms. If I can find the links I'll post them. You might do a search on Thunderdumps posts......
 
#295 ·
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