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BMW Navigation .... sucks?

32K views 164 replies 69 participants last post by  Spyder1963 
#1 · (Edited)
I did not have navigation in my previous car (an E46 M3). In my household, my wife's honda accord was the only vehicle with navigation. In her car, we have not once in 6 years of ownership had an issue with the navigation routing us to the wrong place. I've had the 535 for about 3 weeks now, and it has mis-guided me at least a handful of times. It has pointed me in the wrong direction many times, including wrong corners, wrong streets, wrong TOWNS. This morning I made sure the building number, street, city, state, were all input correctly, and notwithstanding that, I was routed to the wrong town.

Did I miss a memo on BMW navigation or is it really this terrible?
 
#52 ·
Do we really expect BMW navigation to work well in US? It cant't even work properly in Germany. 4 month ago we drove from Munich to Innsbruck, usually about 2 hrs drive. The navigation took us on a 4 hrs drive thru every small village in between. It was really a disaster. That's not what one would expect after 8 hrs flight from US...Richard
 
#53 · (Edited)
all of these car navs lag behind $200 consumer electronics. someday the csr companies will get out of the computer business.

the nav in my wife's lexus 450h is by far the best i've seen in a car. it has a funny 'mouse-like controller' that i though i would hate but turns out to be genius. the nav speaks ALL the street names like any sane nav should, and the systrm has a much better ui for combining visuals of different functions together. (it's more map-view centric, with a big secondary info bar that drops down for radio/climate/calls )

i find it incredibly embarassing that my new 550 which cost twice as much as her lexus doesn't speak all the street names.
 
#54 · (Edited)
"Incredibly embarrassing"? Seriously? Drama . :rolleyes:

If you are going to compare to lexus at least be fair and post the negative aspects of the Lexus system. There are many.

Consumer nav units are not as good unless you spend close to $2k and get the dead reckoning capability.

A $200 garmin is no better than an iPhone app.
 
#56 · (Edited)
I love my new BMW, but YES, I do find it embarassing that it dosn't speak streetnames! So should the BMW engineers!

I'm a software engineer. I tinkered with synthesized speech on the Apple II and TI-99/4a back in the 1980s! If I had the code to the BMW system, it would take me less than a day to integrate a TTS engine and have it speaking street names, at least in most western languages. There are free open-source options available, or for a few dollars per car they could license a nice-sounding commercial offering. The pronunciation on those things is highly variable, but it doesn't matter. We kinda like to laugh at how our Garmin Nuvi pronounces Hawaiian street names when we travel there. It's also weird that BMW has speech recognition (which is "hard" to implement) but no text-to-speech for street names (which is very "easy" to implement).

Saying "turn in 300 feet" is what the bad early nav systems did back in 1998. Speaking street names is a must-have feature for a $150 consumer nav unit -- not to mention Google Android Navigation and VZNavigator on hundreds of phone models. It should be in a ~$2000 nav system on an ~$80k car.

---

As for dead-reckoning. I agree standalone GPS units can sometimes have positioning troubles, though I've never seen them in my Garmin Nuvi, only the older Magellens. My Verizon Droid3 (and my droid-1, blackberry, and LG Chocolate before it), all use cellular assisted GPS, which has been perfect as far as I've ever seen. The only downside is that these systems only work with cellular reception, which means, ohh, just about everywhere. Maybe some cut-outs in tunnels and remote areas. In my experience, consumer systems (especially Google Android Navigation) currently blow away car systems by a wide margin.

Though I suppose it all depends what you consider "good". I consider it good if it's easy to enter an address, get a decent route, and follow the directions. As a bonus, it's nice if it has traffic info, alternate routes, and lets you route around a problem, searching for stuff is a bonus, but I generally do that on my mobile device not the car. (I would **LOVE** an Android Google Maps send-to-bmw feature, but alas that does not currently exist)

My post didn't include all the positive and negative aspects of either system, as it wasn't intended to be a complete review. Here is a more complete list of the differences between the 2010 lexus 450h nav and 2012 BMW idrive nav

Lexus 450h nav vs bmw idrive, this is how, in my opinion, the two stack up in core navigation features:

  • both have decent traffic info/display
  • both have POI display, nearby major streetnames (but never the ones you want)
  • both have available operator-assisted stuff (BMW Assist, Safety Connect)
  • both have voice systems with marginal recognition quality (because speech recognition is "hard")

  • bmw allows you to enter an address while leaving city the same, lexus requires you to re-enter city each time
  • bmw allows you to operate while driving, while lexus does not

  • lexus speaks all streetnames, bmw does not
  • lexus funny mouse-controller is easier to use, requires less driver attention than idrive (ironic that lexus won't let you operate while driving)

...and here is a comparison of their nice to have features:

  • bmw has the ability to manually route-around a specific route section, lexus does not
  • bmw has better (more specific) options for voice prompts, allowing you to enter or correct a part of an entry without full-reentry
  • bmw has nice visual hud integration (if you have the HUD)
  • bmw can warn of out-of-gas and suggest gas stops, lexus leaves that to the driver
  • bmw allows you to google-search for a POI, lexus does not

  • lexus has a nicer "temporary overlay" for radio/climate changes, while bmw's overlay must be toggled manually
  • lexus nav map seems to require less 'fiddling', during navigation it shows the right amount of nearby context... returning to this auto-mode after fiddling requires just tapping the map button. On bmw you have to scroll the zoom level to the left until it hits auto, and even then I don't find the context shown as appropriate as lexus
 
#57 ·
I'm a software engineer. I tinkered with synthesized speech on the Apple II and TI-99/4a back in the 1980s! If I had the code to the BMW system, it would take me less than a day to integrate a TTS engine and have it speaking street names, at least in most western languages. There are free open-source options available, or for a few dollars per car they could license a nice-sounding commercial offering. The pronunciation on those things is highly variable, but it doesn't matter. We kinda like to laugh at how our Garmin Nuvi pronounces Hawaiian street names when we travel there. It's also weird that BMW has speech recognition (which is "hard" to implement) but no text-to-speech for street names (which is very "easy" to implement).
Things are very different from the 80's. While speech recognition is a more difficult proposition, remember that with respect to the BMW system you're dealing with an extreme subset of words/phrases (basically a command set), with confirmation through the process, vs. being able to pronounce correctly either all the roads in north america or europe (or somewhere else).

What you call 'easy' to implement may meet the standards for Kia or Hasbro, myself I always have turn guidance speech muted anyway, don't need nor want the distraction.
 
#58 · (Edited)
YES settings were on "quickest" on my ride from Munich to Innsbruck. I got my new 528 xi today. Played with the navigation and realized there is no hope. Having the setting on "fastest" or whatever it says, it took me on some ride to get home. Maybe the purpose of navigation is entirely different from what we expect. Maybe to goal is eventually to take us somehow to destination, but not using the most efficient way. I concluded no more NAVIGATION for me...i got it just because the car came with it as BMW pushes it into all cars, lately.
 
#60 ·
I came out of a benz (a 2005), and must say i like this nav much better than i liked the benz. In particular - the perspective view with scale set at appx 0.25 miles on wide screen (no split screen), you really get a good idea of where you are and where you are heading.

My biggest gripe w/ the nav is using the idrive controller to enter addresses (so much so i am now trained to call my office and have someone enter it in google maps and send to the car )....

My 2 cents...its not perfect - but i'll take it!

Aceman
 
#62 · (Edited)
Yes many have (text-to-speech for streetnames), most still can't tell the difference in pronunciation between Louisville, Ky and Louisville, OH.
In an odd bit of irony, I'm not aware of any pronunciation difference between them, I'd pronounce them both the same. I've never lived in either place.

How do you pronounce Versailles, KY?
The same way I'd pronounces Versailles, France, which is the same way Microsoft Speech pronounces it. I did a search and see that it's pronounced "ver-sales". Ohh the joy of non-phonetic languages.

This discussion of city-names is a bit off-topic as we're talking about tts for street-names. There is no question TTS is not going to pronounce all street names correctly. The question is whether questionably pronounced street names are better than voice instructions like "turn in 500 feet", I argue they always are, as long as they are intellegible. Others may disagree. I suspect you have to use voice navigation to care.

I'm not holding my breath for spoken streetnames in iDrive. I am glad I ordered the HUD so I can turn off the confusing "turn in 500 feet" instructions and just watch for streetnames on the HUD. Non HUD users are not so fortunate.

No offense taken, we all love our beamers, elements of perfection and flaws alike. :)
 
#63 ·
Hello,

New 2013 535i owner here. First BMW.

Was very disappointed with the nav. I assumed (incorrectly) that when you pay this much for an auto, the nav would be equal to or better what I have on my $200 iPhone.

The worst for me is the constant "bear right" and "bear left" instructions when going straight on a freeway. After a few miles, this gets downright annoying. It seems like it sees every curve in the freeway as an opportunity to tell me to "bear" in a certain direction, but looking at the map it doesn't necessarily seem to match up.

This to me is a serious bug, and not just a simple annoyance. When I have hundreds of miles of driving on a long freeway I don't want to keep hearing "bear right" every minute.
 
#64 ·
Hello,

New 2013 535i owner here. First BMW.

Was very disappointed with the nav. I assumed (incorrectly) that when you pay this much for an auto, the nav would be equal to or better what I have on my $200 iPhone.

The worst for me is the constant "bear right" and "bear left" instructions when going straight on a freeway. After a few miles, this gets downright annoying. It seems like it sees every curve in the freeway as an opportunity to tell me to "bear" in a certain direction, but looking at the map it doesn't necessarily seem to match up.

This to me is a serious bug, and not just a simple annoyance. When I have hundreds of miles of driving on a long freeway I don't want to keep hearing "bear right" every minute.
You can turn off the voice if you don't wish voice instructions.

Garmin is the same way. Kinda chatty. Do you want them on or off?

I don't think there is an option for wanting only a few random instructions vice having them all.
 
#73 · (Edited)
BMW Navigation Sucks

I bought the navigation option on my 2011 535. I did not have any complaints with the system until I retired and began to travel across the USA. The system's reliability was terrible. After numerous incidents (>100) where I was missing or provided with incorrect routing information in addition to numerous incidents where I was directed to the wrong address, my dealer updated my software to the latest version free of charge. The update did not correct the problems.

I was told BMW switched to the same navigation system used by Cadillac and Lexus on the 2012 models. My dealer traded me into a 2012 535 in an effort to resolve my extreme dissatisfaction with an unreliable navigation system. The navigation system on the 2012 model has been improved, it still does not compare to my $150 Garmin. Based upon my experience, you should not expect BMW to stand behind the warranty on their navigation system. They seem to be more interested in selling software updates than providing their customers with a reliable product. I will never buy another new car without a written promise to provide annual updates to the navigation system software. (My $150 Garmin came with lifetime updates!)

FYI - - - navigation problems include the following items:
1. No verbal instructions provided when traveling through interstate highway interchanges and when changing the route from one interstate highway onto an intersecting interstate highway
2. Missed destination (manually entered address) - - - range from 400 feet up to 2.5 miles
3. Missed destination (destination selected from "Points of Interest" in the navigation system menu)
3. Unable to load destination (system does not recognize the address)

I still travel with my $150 Garmin in order to avoid these problems on my 2012 535i. It seems kind of stupid to stick a Garmin to the windshield of the car but the BMW organization has not shown any ability to resolve the issues.
 
#74 · (Edited)
So, would you buy a sports oriented car from Garmin?

Not me, it's not their forte.

Why expect that from BMW, even at 100K?

It's not their forte. It semi sux but you can talk to it.

Maybe BMW should not offer nav?

NOT!

I have a Garmin.
 
#75 ·
So, would you buy a sports oriented car from Garmin?

Not me, it's not their forte.

Why expect that from BMW, event at 100K?

It's not their forte. It semi sux but you can talk to it.

Maybe BMW should not offer nav?

NOT!

I have a Garmin.
Sorry, this logic is asinine.

BMW offers a Navigation system and charges big bucks for it.
Every other luxury manufacturer offers Navigation and pretty much every car down to a $10k econobox can be equipped with factory Nav. They are an integral part of driving and automobiles today.

Everyone, regardless of price, does it better than BMW. Everyone.
 
#76 ·
In my 2007 E60, 85,000 miles, which my wife now drives, and my 2012 F10 with about 5,000 miles, I've been quite happy with my navs. Oh sure, there have been occasional errors, but very few. I can certainly live without all the street names being called out. I have noticed that the 2012 version calls out many more street names than the 2007. There are two features of the BMW navs that I do not care for, and I can't recall being mentioned in this or other threads: (1)when arriving at the destination, the nav does not tell which side of the street the destination is on, and (2)there's no easy way to confirm the inputted address when reaching the destination.
 
#77 ·
Hi needsdecaf,

Not that I have seen all the navs offered but none work as well as a dedicated Garmin unit. I have a $1000 Garmin that is not perfect but granted it does better than the BMW. After years with them I do not expect perfection with any of them, as much as i wish it could be true.
 
#78 ·
No one would expect to buy a BMW with an engine or transmission that worked really well 99% of the time. Why should my expectations be any different from their nab system? All I ask is that they stand behind it, providing free updates until it does perform at an acceptable level. I agree that nab systems are not their forte. Maybe I am waiting for them to swallow their German pride and partner with Garmin to provide their customers with a system that performs as well as their mechanical systems do.
 
#79 ·
I have not seen any single nav which gives 100% accuracy.

The best probably is Google maps, though it still suck when it comes to traffic conditions - quite often they don't know what traffic on US101 freeway looks like (and they can literally see that freeway from their campus).
 
#81 ·
I can't speak to the F10 but I never had any of these problems on the E60.

With such widely varying opinions in this thread, one is tempted to suspect user error.
 
#82 ·
Wrong.

With the switch to the F10 Nav, BMW switched mapping suppliers to TeleAtlas. This is the same mapping supplier that is having issues with Apple Maps. The issues that Apple Maps users are experiencing are VERY similar to those faced here. Coincidence? I think not.

The issues are real and you can't blame user error when you are at point a, point b is selected, and the car takes you through China to get there.
 
#84 ·
I have both an E60 and an Odyssey and I find the E60 nav to be far superior to the Odyssey nav. I'm in Utah. Maybe location matters.

-Corey
 
#85 ·
What Everyone needs to realize is that the underlying data with all navigation systems (GIS) Is constantly being updated. It's not only to update points of interest, but to actually update location of centerline and points on maps vs lat/Lon. This data has different formats and as gets converted to the different applications.

Now when you take into account that there are hundreds of millions of points and centerlines that go into any navigation system, multiply that by the number of different suppliers that provide that combine to collect the data and you can easily see why errors with pop up. Few companies have the resources of a Google and can afford to drive the country for proper location information. Most of the data is a collection from different sources, these various sources can also introduce errors. I am not making excuses for the companies, just pointing out that there is a quite a bit of data that goes into making our NAVs fairly accurate. Of course if you live in an area where streets and addresses are changing more often than the data becomes even more important and dates quickly.
 
#87 · (Edited)
I have no issue with a lack of POI's, or getting an address wrong. That's understandable.

What I have an issue with is a fundamental inability to route properly. I've been using Nav since 1999 and had it in my cars since 2002. Never have I seen a system as poor to route or re-route as this one. And I've had it in areas from NY solid down to VA and now TX, and the issues are the same. This thing still can't recognize roads that are better than others. Case in point:

Here's a goofy one that I didn't catch on the Nav, but replicated on Google maps. It's not terrible, but how does this (Nav routing):



Make more sense than this (how I went):



More magic not captured on film:

Requested routing: Get off going south, make a u turn and go North (actual routing)



Instead of just taking the Northbound exit?!?!?!



Or how about this. Forget about taking the direct highway route:



No, here is what the Nav suggests. This:



or this:



These are routes suggested by the nav. Seriously.

A good one from DC:



One of my favorites. An illegal u-turn on a DIVIDED road, when you can go past and take the exit route to go Northwest on Seminary directly.



I've saved the best for last. This was in the middle of a 280 mile trip. It actually suggested that instead of proceeding through on this major highway, somehow it was better that I get off, make a few turns, and get back on. Seriously.



Dynamic guidance is turned off. No special instructions were used. These were actual routing methods by this POS nav.
 
#88 ·
Caf - your crazy... It makeserfect sense... Lmao

Obviously there is some issue with the weighting of certain roads, never quite seen it this bad... I guess you are just lucky. :thumbup:

Luckily the 2013 has a new system... Fingers crossed.
 
#89 ·
This comes up every month or so, and the responses are the same. I've seen some crazy routing as well. It was especially bad going through the DC area, but it's bad in NJ too. It has some strange logic. I'm actually impressed when it chooses an efficient route. I've had nav equipped cars since 2004, and even compared to the poor MB COMAND system, this one is the worst.

Mine also contradicts itself. The voice will say one thing, but the screen shows another. And if you have HUD, you need to cancel the guidance before you arrive at your destination, or it will keep showing the directional arrows until the car is shut off.
 
#91 · (Edited)
I have another interesting observation to make and I'll try and explain it the best I can. I don't know if it makes any difference, but the destination I sent it to the car, from Google Maps.
On the iDrive screen the route to my destination was displayed as I know it should be (the right way) showing the white line continuously on the freeway, clearly showing somewhere ahead, the exit I had to take, past other oncoming two exits. Only the little display at the bottom of the cluster kept telling me to take an exit that was two exits before the right one. How can this be explained ?
 
#92 ·
My main issue with the nav system is that the voice prompt to turn comes a little late...like right when you should be making the turn. It gives you about a 1/8th of a mile heads up that a turn is approaching, but then it doesn't let you know that the next street is where you turn until you are basically right at the street. Normally not a problem but can be a pain if you are in an unfamiliar area, it is night, and streets are not well lit.
 
#93 ·
Needs, Thanks for the fantastic examples, though the second one is easy to explain. It is a definite data base base problem. Your two-way ramp to the North bound road is only recognized as one-way - note the arrow on the print out showing traffic direction. There are many of these types of error behind a number of the problems I've experienced. Hey, you pay cheap prices for data and you get crummy data. Now if BMW would just buy a decent map source a goodly number of our problems would go away. But then there's the logic(?) algorithm for using the data to generate a route, etc.
 
#94 ·
There is no such thing as a "good map source" its all relative. BTW - the best map sources is local government who is constantly updating their towns, roads, addresses, etc. Oh and that data is free, so its not always "you get what you pay for" when it cone to mapping.
 
#95 ·
Correct it is all relative, correct the best is the local -county surveyor, correct at least in OH free to individual for non commercial purposes. But commercial services have to pay a fee even/especially when they get the data from the federal repository in St. Louis. Which btw is where a copy of all local data goes and is integrated into a uniform standardized structure.
 
#97 ·
Actually that is not accurate. For example in the area I am in - they would provide this data for free to commercial entities. It is also not handled by county surveyors, it is handle by GIS professionals that this is all they do.

This data is becoming more and more important than just navigation systems. It is used for first responder dispatch, emergency alerts and even routing of 911 calls.

Now all that said - great data that gets deployed with crap algorithms will always fail.
 
#98 ·
I just got out of an '09 E63 and into a '11 535i.
Nav in the MBZ was near perfect and pretty easy to use.

I've only had the F10 about a month, but an anecdote that underscores how clueless the BMW nav can be...

Travelling N on I-405 here in OC, one can exit onto a toll road (73), which rejoins 405 10miles North. Using the 73, one might cut off circa 3 mins of drive time through Irvine, or more-which may be desirable depending on day/time of travel. Nav told me to use the 73N, but I continued on the 405N and Nav was unrelenting, insisting that I take every exit that one could use to rejoin the 73 as I proceeded North ...including the Jamboree exit which is approx 2 miles from where the 73 rejoins 405N.
Goofy
 
#99 ·
I just got out of an '09 E63 and into a '11 535i.
Nav told me to use the 73N, but I continued on the 405N and Nav was unrelenting, insisting that I take every exit that one could use to rejoin the 73 as I proceeded North ...including the Jamboree exit which is approx 2 miles from where the 73 rejoins 405N.
Goofy
This is what I saw on the very first day I received my 2013 535i - refuses to do a recalculation and just kept pushing me to go where it wanted me to go. For me, BTW, it was on the 5 around Santa Ana.

The most annoying thing though is the constant "Bear Right" and "Bear Left" instructions - all while I am just cruising straight on the 5.

It doesn't announce street names either. This nav is a DOG.

Just downloaded Waze on my phone and it works great. Perfect instructions, telling you to turn at the right times, recalculates based on where YOU want to go, and announces all the street names.

So, a FREE iPhone app beats a nav system in a $60K BMW.

Not a great first impression of my first BMW. :thumbdwn:
 
#103 ·
I can 100% confirm that the 2013 Maps are messed up and in many cases a complete waste of money. They don't seem to take you to the correct location and will deliver you to an address 1/4 mile away or, in some cases, further away. My MY2013 550 has been into BMW twice where at fist, they thought it was me, then I had to make them try to get the nav to take them to a few addresses, then had them try on another MY2013 (a 7 series). Then, I had them test it on a MY2012, and it worked just fine and would plot the address correctly on the map. I am waiting for them to get back to me, and now have been playing phone tag w/ someone and BMW NA to help me resolve this and compensate me for the time and fuel I have wasted over this screw up. Who knows how far I will get, but I an not happy as I just moved to a new city and don't know how to get anywhere w/o nav.
 
#104 ·
Who knows how far I will get, but I an not happy as I just moved to a new city and don't know how to get anywhere w/o nav.
Ah man, bad timing. Bummer.

My 550 is on order and should be here around Feb 1. I am anxious to try it out to confirm the problems in my area (Utah).

-Corey
 
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