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Z4: I am sick of second gear

27K views 186 replies 45 participants last post by  JonM 
#1 ·
As some/most of you know, the M cars have a 2nd gear synchro issue. I have had this issue from the time I got the car in July '06. This issue has not gone away. About six months ago I happened to be at the dealership when they had the regional tech there. I got them to take it for a joy ride to try and replicate the issue. Oh course, they could not. I took a service tech for a ride, and as per usual, I could not replicate the issue either. So, with 36800 miles on the clock, the issue remains. As my warranty gets closer to running out, I'm becoming more concerned of eventually being stuck with the cost of a new transmission the day after the warranty runs out (sods law). I know several of you have had your transmissions replaced at BMW's expense. I told the dealership and the regional tech this, but neither of them could find out any info on the subject/issue at hand. Would the people that have had the transmission replaced be kind enough to post or PM me the last 7 of your VIN so that I can refer them to a car that has had the problem fixed. They are not being helpful. Or if you choose not to, can you write a hate mail to the people at CROWN BMW in Greensboro, as they choose to not actively research this at all.

Thanks for you assistance
Nathan Styles
LL93217
 
#75 ·
Didn't mean to be sarcastic...but how can I help it? How can you rev match when the car engine is going faster than the car is? It seems to me that most of these guys are 1. not paying attention to where their hands are when shifting and 2. not backing off on the revs in order to make an appropriate shift. I have no experience on this particular car, but there are universal rules about shifting that are not to be disregarded lightly. A lot of the people on this board think that having a BMW exempts them from the laws of physics. No matter how much money you throw at it, nature wins in the long run.
 
#80 ·
Okay...one more and I'm outta here. Anybody who is trying to shift from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3 while holding the revs at 7 or 8 K is not really looking for an answer to his problem. He's grandstanding. Nobody in their right minds would hold an engine at 7 or 8 K while trying to shift from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3. It simply doesn't make sense to do that. On the other hand, if he's really doing that why would any sensible person defend his attempt to do this? Obviously, some of you are not on the same planet that i am. I need to stop reading all new threads.
 
#81 · (Edited)
I'm not even sure anyone said anything about "holding" revs at 7 or 8k rpms, just shifting there. I doubt most of the people having problems fail to release the gas pedal...your assumption that most of the people having problems don't know how to drive is a bit snobish, don't you think?
 
#89 ·
I was going to switch to royal purple since I used redline last time but ended up going with redline again. I might wait a while and try it out. Hopefully it helps. Since the problem is worse when cold, I wonder if the main issue is just the fluid. It might be the fluid that is the problem instead of the syncros. The problem remains even after the car warms up but its not as bad or as often.
 
#97 ·
FREE Red Line Oil.

If someone wants 2 liters of Red Line manual transmission oil (your choice MTL or MTL-90), let me know. I'll buy from Red Line and ship to your door with 2 extra liters for me. All I need you to do is mail me my two via US Priority Mail. Red Line doesn't ship to APO addresses, and I'm USAF overseas in Germany. You pay for shipping to me. Let me know...
 
#99 ·
FREE Red Line Oil.

If someone wants 2 liters of Red Line manual transmission oil (your choice MTL or MTL-90), let me know. I'll buy from Red Line and ship to your door with 2 extra liters for me. All I need you to do is mail me my two via US Priority Mail. Red Line doesn't ship to APO addresses, and I'm USAF overseas in Germany. You pay for shipping to me. Let me know...
You should try royal purple. I have already tried redline twice and it doesn't really help any. Try out royap purple and see if that makes it better.
 
#98 ·
Don't be sick of second gear.

I agree with you all that the car should shift smoothly at any rpm. However, I'm surprised no one has mentioned double shifting.

I guarantee the shift will be smooth if you double shift. Pain in the neck, maybe.

Basically, for those unfamiliar, double shifting is where you press the clutch in all the way (like normally) then instead of putting the car into the next gear, you put it into neutral and let the clutch out. You then press the clutch back in completely, and put the car into the desired gear.

Basically what this does is matches the rpms so the shift will be a bit smoother. You can finesse the whole double shift process by "blipping" the throttle if you do it too slowly, but if you mess with the technique, you will get it.

I had a car with 145,000 miles on it where the synchros were going bad slowly. It went into gear most of the time like you all talk about, but one in about seven shifts the transmission said "nope" and it was a pain. After double shifting, I no longer had the problem.

Even better, if you can determine when the issue arises, you can double shift only in that instance thus preventing the extra pedal work where it is not needed.

Hopefully you all will determine a mechanical solution, but until then this is a way to alleviate the problem. I feel it IS necessary to be able to verify your cars are getting the acceleration advertised every now and then... they are BMW's!! :thumbup:
 
#102 ·
The problem is real - happens at random - always between 5,500 and 7,800 RPM 1st to 2nd. At low RPM's it clunks into 2nd pretty good ocassionaly too. Please do not question my (or other posters with the problem) driving or shifting skills - I've never had it happen with this regularity in any other car (or truck) in over 30 years of driving.
 
#103 ·
Mine clunks into second at lower rpm's and is fine at higher rpms. When its above 4500 it seems fine and below it has the problem. I don't like driving at 5500 to 7800 all the time though. I mainly drive in the city and don't want to be hauling a$$ at every light.

At what range are othe people having the problem?

I tried changing the way I'm holding the shift knob as mentioned on an earlier post. The only thing it did was make the problem seem like less of a problem. You get more leverage so it makes it feel easier to shift but the same amount of force is still being used and its still clunking.

Any other way that some people have fixed it by changing driving style?
 
#113 ·
When I grip it like you said it feels much better but it still clunks. I think since you are gripping it in that manner, it feels like its going in easier but since the clunk is still there, its the exact same thing. I did start to grip it like you said and it does feel better but I'm still not satisfied.
 
#114 ·
I use a light grip on the shifter, maybe 3 fingers, and experience no grind, and I shift quickly without slamming it into gear. I have had a 1 out of 20 notchy 3 to 4 shifts, which is going away as the car gets additional mileage, now ~ 7,000 miles.

A good gear box should not grind.

EB
 
#115 ·
I use a light grip on the shifter, maybe 3 fingers, and experience no grind, and I shift quickly without slamming it into gear. I have had a 1 out of 20 notchy 3 to 4 shifts, which is going away as the car gets additional mileage, now ~ 7,000 miles.

A good gear box should not grind.

EB
I usually hold it in the same manner. I started holding it full grip from 1st to 2nd only and my normal way for the other gears. It doesn't grind at all it just clunks which makes me think its only the syncros. BMW doesnt sell the syncros otherwise I would have replaced them already damn it.
 
#116 ·
Just want to share some extra experience with Redline MT-90.
This is based on owning a 01 s/c celica before the Z4 M, The celica has a very fragile 6speed gear box and the celica revved up to 8800rpm daily so its not that different from a M.
The celica boxes were notorious for snychro problems especially the 1-2 shifts like what some of you are describing. Most celica owners switched to MT-90, as did i and it defiantly made shifting smoother and for friends that had major grinding problems or weird noises ect it helped a lot and eliminated the problem in most cases.

So i highly recommend Redline MT-90.
 
#118 ·
Just want to share some extra experience with Redline MT-90.
This is based on owning a 01 s/c celica before the Z4 M, The celica has a very fragile 6speed gear box and the celica revved up to 8800rpm daily so its not that different from a M.
The celica boxes were notorious for snychro problems especially the 1-2 shifts like what some of you are describing. Most celica owners switched to MT-90, as did i and it defiantly made shifting smoother and for friends that had major grinding problems or weird noises ect it helped a lot and eliminated the problem in most cases.

So i highly recommend Redline MT-90.
My roomate blew his tranny in his Celica. He was messing around trying to top it out and going from 2nd to 3rd KABOOM. haha Celicas
 
#117 ·
Wow all this time for the past 2 years in the M I thought it was me. I had this happen to me during the 1-2 shift occasionally only when I was racing. The few times it happened I thought it was my fault possibly because I was shifting wrong due to the excitement and speed in which I was changing gears or because I was shifting hard.
 
#121 ·
Since I haven't had this, is it a clunking or a grind? Regardless, my shifts are best when I depress the clutch pedal rapidly, and delay the movement of the shifter lever until the clutch pedal is fully depressed. The delay in itself is hardly preceived as I just don't move the shift lever while my left foot is still in motion. At the point the clutch pedal is fully depressed, I move the shift lever swiftly to the next gear. Shifts are very smooth and the whole action start to finish is quick.

The issue could have something to do with the self adjusting clutch. Smooth shifts require a good clutch disengagement. Has anyone tried removing the clutch arm backstop to see if that helps? A little more pedal travel could help.
 
#125 · (Edited)
I've been following this thread with interest because I've never had any second gear issues with my Coupe. Then again, I haven't driven the car more than a few miles in the past six months and, if I recall correctly, have less than 4,000 miles on the clock. Were I to experience a gear grind issue, I'd switch to Redline. Working with tuned Subarus for a few years required dealing with gear issues on a regular basis. I went through numerous gear oils in my WRX including Mobil 1, Neosynthetic, and a few others before settling on Redline. Shockproof HD was the prescription for the WRX, but the minute I added Redline, all shifting problems went away. My mechanic had rally experience with Mazdas and recommended Redline because whichever Mazda he was competing with (I don't recall) ate a gear box in nearly every race - until they added Redline.
 
#126 ·
From new until about 12,000km I had about ten 1-2 grinds, all above 7500rpm. Then I took the car to the drag strip and did 6 flat out runs shifting between 7800 and 8000 RPM without a single grind and haven't experienced it since (now at 15,000km). Perhaps I subtly changed my technique, or perhaps it can go away as the transmission breaks in?
 
#127 ·
I think we've all adapted our styles. I'll throw one more at this - a number of times in one specific corner at the local track; when under hard braking it's necessary to drop from third to second (yes I've heel and toed rev matched) - the car just will not go into second gear. At first I thought it was because I was pulling too hard against the gate due to the g-forces - I'm pretty convinced it's the syncros - this too is random.:dunno:
 
#132 ·
I was told by my BMW tech today that they are aware of the grind in older MYs. BMW analyized this as a manufacturing issue and then changed manufacturers. This is just what my German tech stated and I can't confirm any accuracy, but these guys are usually honest and damn spot on. He also did state that the way you break in the gearbox matters. If you drive it too hard (heavy load and over 5500 rpms) especially in the first 300 miles, it makes a difference. He also stated that you still need to progressively use the engine/gearbox harder up to 5,000 miles. Flogging it after the initial 1,200 mile service is still bad for the drivetrain. He said to not use wide open throttle until 5,000 miles. I assumed he meant sustained. For sure 1,200 miles doesn't ready the engine, gearbox, and diff for immediate hard use.
 
#133 ·
I distinctly remember a thread before I got my MC (on that famous Z forum now dead), that said exactly this. I have have taken this advice and no gearbox worries at all. :)
 
#136 ·
Today the car was shifting smooth as butter. I don't know why but it has its days where it is just perfect. As soon as I noticed it was shifting really smooth, I started having fun. Shifting into second was no problem and downshifting was great too. Lets just say I pulled the fun out of the M3 tonight. YEAH

If only it was like this every single day.
 
#137 ·
I still think a new shifter (RE, UUC) could cure your issue. The issue of the grind doesn't affect your gearbox.

I plan to buy a E46 M3 next year when I'm back in the States. One of the first things I'll do other than have all fluids changed, is the CDV mod and install a better shifter and new gear knob. I want the shifting to be like new (or better). That is unless I end up with a SMG M3. Haven't yet decided. I may opt for the SMG just to have something different to my Z4 M which I'll have occupying space in the garage anyway.
 
#139 ·
This gearbox is clunky in general, but you guys who have the s1t to second grinding, are you trying to shift while coming out of wheel spin situations? If you are you are just overloading the synchros more. Most bmw transmissions don't have adequate synchros on second gear to begin with.

Short shifter will only make things worse.

Just shift smoothly with minimal force and avoid yanking the lever back, that will solve your problem completely and yes you can still shift blazingly fast this way.
 
#142 ·
This gearbox is clunky in general, but you guys who have the s1t to second grinding, are you trying to shift while coming out of wheel spin situations? If you are you are just overloading the synchros more. Most bmw transmissions don't have adequate synchros on second gear to begin with.

Short shifter will only make things worse.

Just shift smoothly with minimal force and avoid yanking the lever back, that will solve your problem completely and yes you can still shift blazingly fast this way.
I'm not wheel-spinning. My remedy is actually the opposite of what you suggest. I'm used to smooth-shifting VWs, and that does not work in this car. If I'm at 7800rpm and do a nimble shift to 2nd, I grind 70% of the time. I find that if I really grab that f-ing knob, wait a few milliseconds, then ram that mutherfukker down into 2nd, grinding is significantly reduced. I don't like delaying but what can ya do :(
 
#141 ·
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I found it informative.

I had this issue twice after picking the car up yesterday, I think I'll switch to a better shift knob, as the stock one does not have the best shape for good shifting, I prefer a ball shape shif knob in general.
 
#143 ·
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I found it informative.

I had this issue twice after picking the car up yesterday, I think I'll switch to a better shift knob, as the stock one does not have the best shape for good shifting, I prefer a ball shape shif knob in general.
It's driver issue, not car issue. You have to adjust your driving "style" to how the car wants to be driven. Once you do you'll be rewarded with smooth shifts at any RPM.
 
#144 ·
That just goes to show you. The trans in the Z4M is just not up to par. Its a piece of crap if you ask me.

On the second hand market, I can get the Z4M transmission for $1275 delivered. The S6S will cost you around 3500 on the used market.

The transmission you guys all have is the economy tranny used in the diesels, and the economy BMWs in Europe. So I am not at all surprised that you are having trouble.

If I were you, I would look at finding me a nice second hand S6S (M3 Trans) and installing that into the car. That transmission is designed for high performance driving.

The S6S is used in the E36 Evo M3, E46 M3, M5, 850Csi, etc. It can handle the revs and the power.

Or you could always put in a 5 speed from the E36 M3. :)
 
#146 ·
+1 grind on my new to me 2006 Z4M Roadster

Its an 07/06 manufacturing date. Grinds going into 2nd at low RPMs (2,500~3,000). I've only had it for a little more than a week so I don't have all the cases down yet, but grind seems to go away or reduced after its warmed up.

I've got a UUC SSK in my 330i and would really like one in the Z4M, but probably will hold off until I have a dealer look it over and see if they will do anything to address the grind.

Looking forward to see how it does on the track in a couple weeks!
 
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