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335iS or M3?

51K views 227 replies 71 participants last post by  Perry73 
#1 ·
I hate the fact that it's so hard to make this decision. I hope BMW adds something to the M3 coupe to make my decision easier in about 10 months. If not, I don't see myself getting an M3, because the 335iS seems to be an M3, without the gas guzzler tax and a V8. Please convince me to get an ///M3. We all know that the numbers on the 335iS are all underrated.

350hp and 369 ft lbs of torque is what BMW states. Put that on a Dyno and you're pretty close to 400+. Someone please help me justify the ///M3 over the 335iS. I feel stupid even thinking about it. It even has a 7 speed Duel Clutch Transmission, and ducting like the ///M3 for engine coolong! PLEASE, I'm begging! Convince me to get the ///M3.
 
#66 ·
+1. The M3 sedan is absolutely the best bang for the buck in this price range in my opinion. Of course, that and $2 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I think though if you're sold on the coupe then there's not going to be much in it between the 335is and M3, particularly for a $7K difference (which can be a tipping point for a lot of people). Myself, I'm on the fence but actually leaning toward a DCT-equipped 335iS because (a) I don't NEED four doors and (b) in my general around-town driving the monstrous torque of the 335iS is going to be more usable. An M3 is going to pull ahead of the iS, but probably only at super legal speeds.

Having said that, the M3 still has the advantage in appearance, the GORGEOUS engine and the absolutely stunning handling (which the RFT's on the 335 completely ruin).
 
#83 ·
I'll give the 335IS some love (some of which has already been mentioned):

  1. GREAT power band - I often feel that the regular 335 has more power around town than the M3, and the IS will be even more so. Yes, high revs are nice, but the 335 gives power at the green light.
  2. The kick of the turbos - sometimes is more fun than feeling the torque gradually build up over time
  3. Saving $$$ on purchase - you can take that extra money and go rent a Ferrari, go to a racing school, take a nice vacation, personalize your car w/ mods, buy a motorcycle, etc....
  4. Lower Insurance
  5. better gas mileage - the actual $$ doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I feel like I have to stop to refill my tank every other drive. It's a complete PITA, and having to do that less often would be very nice.
  6. The sound of turbos spooling up - I miss the sound from a previous turbo'd car
  7. Resale may be better than you think - The ZHP package of the E46 M3 holds its value a bit better than the regular one. I suspect the IS will fall into the same category.
  8. It doesn't have the slight drone of the engine when cruising down the freeway - At my typical freeway speed, 80 mph, my 6spd M3 is at 3600-3700 RPM. An automatic 328 is around 2600 RPM at 80. A 335 is somewhere in between (around 3000, I think?). There are times when the buzzing sound of the engine at cruising speed could be a bit annoying.

Am I going to go trade in my M3? Definitely not, for a number of reasons. But, my fiancee already has a 335, so I get the best of both worlds :)
 
#90 ·
It's like this.................... an M3 is like a god!!!!! All powerful able to respond to any road conditon. 50% of an M car is what we call M-specific not like any other production models. M cars are special designed for those who demand more, and need more. It's not about a big engine or the sound of the exhaust.........It's about the Harmony between Man and Machine. M Designers live and breathe performance as if gas was in there veins. They have invested their lives to produce a car that can transform its everyday driver into a true performance driver, never settling for status quo. The smile you will get when your foot presses on the throttle, and the G forces that violently slam you into your seat reminding you that you are a mere human...................The M car awakens your slumbered soul as you devour the corners, alerting every instinct in you to stop.... but you know you can't. The techincal data is always impressive etc etc... But it's about the passion that is revealed as you drive an M-car. In the final analysis I ask you ONE Question?..........................................Do you posses the will to harness, the power to control, and the skill to handle this SUBLIME EPIPHANY known as an M car!!!! To this end it will give a true M OWNER, the unknown pleasure over and over again.
 
#91 · (Edited)
It's like this.................... an M3 is like a god!!!!! All powerful able to respond to any road conditon. 50% of an M car is what we call M-specific not like any other production models. M cars are special designed for those who demand more, and need more. It's not about a big engine or the sound of the exhaust.........It's about the Harmony between Man and Machine. M Designers live and breathe performance as if gas was in there veins. They have invested their lives to produce a car that can transform its everyday driver into a true performance driver, never settling for status quo. The smile you will get when your foot presses on the throttle, and the G forces that violently slam you into your seat reminding you that you are a mere human...................The M car awakens your slumbered soul as you devour the corners, alerting every instinct in you to stop.... but you know you can't. The techincal data is always impressive etc etc... But it's about the passion that is revealed as you drive an M-car. In the final analysis I ask you ONE Question?..........................................Do you posses the will to harness, the power to control, and the skill to handle this SUBLIME EPIPHANY known as an M car!!!! To this end it will give a true M OWNER, the unknown pleasure over and over again.
Aparently they also have the effect of making you delusional by merely thinking about them.:)

But seriously if there was a Creative Writing award on Bimmerfest I would nominate your post. It really does bring new literary standards to Bimmerfest.:thumbup:

Owning an M does not make you a great driver any more than owning a Fender Stratocaster makes you Eric Clapton.
but owning an M3 will certainly give anyone incentive to hone their skills.

M3 is a great car and I understand why you are so excited about getting one. I'm sorry the M3 was not available when I bought the 335i

CA
 
#92 · (Edited)
I have an M3 and a Cayman S. Both great cars but the Cayman has better balance and easier to drive fast. The Cayman is IMO the best handling car available today.

I also have a Chateram as a dedicated track car. Drive one of those around a track and you will find a new religion (and it wont have a B an M or a W in it).

Picked up the M3 on ED a few weeks ago. I had a great time tooling aroung Europe but unfortunately when it gets to the States it is going to sit in the garage with the Cayman till Spring.
 
#93 ·
I have an M3 and a Cayman S. Both great cars but the Cayman has better balance and easier to drive fast. The Cayman is IMO the best handling car available today.

I also have a Chateram as a dedicated track car. Drive one of those around a track and you will find a new religion (and it wont have a B an M or a W in it).

Picked up the M3 on ED a few weeks ago. I had a great time tooling aroung Europe but unfortunately when it gets to the States it is going to sit in the garage with the Cayman till Spring.
how do you get better balance than 50/50:dunno::) I'd be tempted by a P car but I need to be able to fit a mt bike inside my car.
 
#101 ·
Softer ride on a Porsche? - I thought the whole point of a Porsche as a driving car is its ride and handling...otherwise it is just a pose...

Here's my take on the engine after driving a 335 and an M3...

The M3 engine takes a little more technique to get the most out of it and you have to rev it higher to get to it, this can be achieved by dropping down a gear. This requires some thought, but if you like to be tied into driving the car, the extra work makes it fun, and when you get it right, it feels awesome, a lot more awesome than a 335. Kind of like the perfect brake/heel-toe into a corner. In a 335, one requires (get away with less) thinking as the big torque band means you can pretty much press the throttle in any gear to get oomph, so you don't really have to think about it, you just drive it.

This higher level of engagement is part of what makes driving an M3 more fun, and when you get it right the car responds. With the 335, you could get away with being less precise and it will still respond. I am not sure whether this makes me an 'enthusiast' and can describe my driving as 'spirited' on Tirerack surveys...but I don't really care.

However, I do get frustrated when posters moan about the low end torque of the M3...that's because you have to go and find it in the gear box...If you drive an M3 like you drive a 335, hoping for a broad torque band, you are going to be disappointed.
 
#102 ·
Well, I think most auto manufacturers, including BMW are building in adaptive/adjustable suspension so you can have the best of both worlds...a comfortable car for driving on poor pavement and commuting and a fun car in the twisties...historically Porsche has been a 2nd car for many people because its simply not a practical car day to day...suspension being one of the reasons.

The normally aspirated vs. turbo debate continues.... I still maintain that turbo makes a better street car. By the way, M3 torque curve is very flat and almost as large as the 335 so its not true to say that you need to rev it to get torque. Although the torque numbers are supposedly the same between the cars, I don't feel it as much in the m3. I need another test drive to see..and my 335 is stock. Although you may think you will, bottom line is most people day to day do not drive an M3 at high revs and therefore have a car with less usable day to day power than a turbo car. I'm still looking to find some stats comparing the cars in the 30-50 and 50-70 type speed ranges....normal day to day acceleration ranges. I may still get an M3 but yes I am disappointed with the engine's torque.
 
#105 · (Edited)
If you decide to test drive an M3 again, try driving it a little differently than you'd drive your 335, and I think you'll find the magic that owners talk about. If that doesn't work for you, then you probably don't want an M3. There is also a leap of faith involved, as the test car will have the break in fluids on board, and once these are changed, the car loosens up a lot too.
 
#108 ·
My test car had 10,000 miles on it and I redlined it several times during the test drive. I love everything about the car...just a little disappointed in the torque. Maybe the engine is just so smooth you don't feel the torque pull like you do in the 335, I don't know...that's why I was wondering if anyone had any stats such as 30-50 speed, etc.
 
#116 ·
I test drove a C63 /// AMG and let me tell you, that car is an ANIMAL! It couldn't hold traction above 2k RPM! It's a madman, a murderer, it wants to kill you! The ///M3 I test drove seemed to have a lot more control, and more well behaved.

9 more months.....
 
#119 ·
I test drove a C63 /// AMG and let me tell you, that car is an ANIMAL! It couldn't hold traction above 2k RPM! It's a madman, a murderer, it wants to kill you! The ///M3 I test drove seemed to have a lot more control, and more well behaved.

9 more months.....
I am interested in your thoughts around something slightly different. The Audi S5 versus the 335is or the M3. Currently I have a 2007 335i coupe. Lease is up. The car has been fun but regardless of what I do I am going back to a Cabriolet. I drove the M3 and it was a rush to drive it aggressively and in normal city streets. However, I it will be hard to justify the delta in price versus what I will use of it. I know there great cars out there like AMG or the Austin Martin and the 911 but we are talking about cars 30% more bucks. These are in a different class full stop. However, the S5 has just as much if not more power (then the 335is) albeit questionable handling and lacks in a little in the "feel sporty" category. But for winter driving if need be, it will be superiour not to mention substanitially better interior and a usuable trunk with the top down. I actually think a Cabriolet should be a rag top.

Lastly, if you really want power and handling I think the Z4 35is will blow the M3 away although the 2010 Z4 definitely couldn't. I am trying to talk myself into the z4 35is roadster but it will have some major DD downfalls.

Thoughts....
 
#121 ·
Actually a good comparison. It more or less confirmed my thinking. M3 is M3 and the new 335is is here to compete against the S5. That being said, it becomes a questions of affordability and luxury versus power/performance. In the article is shows the Audi at
53K and the M3 at 67K. That's 14K or 26% more...the dilemma for me at least. I have the $ to bridge it but I am not sure I would feel good about it (very subjective). That's part of the reason I was looking at the Z4 35is. Near M3 performance (wish it wasn't so heavy) but at S5 pricing.

Thanks for the link,
 
#122 · (Edited)
Actually a good comparison. It more or less confirmed my thinking. M3 is M3 and the new 335is is here to compete against the S5. That being said, it becomes a questions of affordability and luxury versus power/performance. In the article is shows the Audi at
53K and the M3 at 67K. That's 14K or 26% more...the dilemma for me at least. I have the $ to bridge it but I am not sure I would feel good about it (very subjective). That's part of the reason I was looking at the Z4 35is. Near M3 performance (wish it wasn't so heavy) but at S5 pricing.

Thanks for the link,
I too am considering all of the cars you mentioned. However, just wanted to comment on the M3 vs. Z4 issue....I don't think the Z4 will come close to total M3 performance with the exception of 0-60 time. Most of the magazine reviews have been ho-hum on the Z4s handling whereas the M3 is universally praised as one of the best there is. Have you test driven an M3? edit: sorry reread your post and see you have driven it. Not sure if you plan to buy or lease but I think the M3 will hold its value much better than a z4. Remember its not the upfront price that matters, its the cost of ownership and unless you plan to drive it into the ground the M3 could end up costing you no more than the Z4. Roadsters are fun in their own way though...I've owned the previous Z4 and an MZ3.
 
#127 ·
I think it was C & D that mentioned that the 335is will have:

320hp
332lb/ft torque
overboost for 7 secs of 369 lb/ft torque
optional DCT
adjustable, lower suspension

Interesting choice.

If you're not tracking it, M3 is a LOT of extra money for virtually nothing.

If you ARE tracking it, M3 is a supreme bargain.
 
#128 ·
If you're not tracking it, M3 is a LOT of extra money for virtually nothing.

If you ARE tracking it, M3 is a supreme bargain.
Not sure about that. Have you driven an M3? On the 2 test rides I've done, its quite a bit different car than the 335i. In fact if I were blind folded, I don't think I would have known the M3 was an e92.

As a track car I'm not sure its a supreme bargain. For a car you can drive every day and take to the track, it's a good choice.
 
#129 ·
6mt

How does the 6MT compare between the M3 and 335is? I was always under the impression that the shifter on the stock M3 was much shorter/lower than on the 3-series. Is the distance you have to move the thing different? Is this true for the clutch too?
 
#130 ·
How does the 6MT compare between the M3 and 335is? I was always under the impression that the shifter on the stock M3 was much shorter/lower than on the 3-series. Is the distance you have to move the thing different? Is this true for the clutch too?
m3 6MT throws are typical BMW long, some people put on the ZHP shift knob which is shorter and weighted which gives a shorter throw. Clutch is very light and easy to modulate, lighter then my e46 325 wagon's clutch :rolleyes:
 
#131 · (Edited)
I only owe 4200 on my car, and if I build, my remaining payments would be around 3k. I would just but pay that out and get into an M3.


Is this a good deal?

2011 BMW M3 Coupe

Le Mans Blue
ZPP,Carbon Leather Trim,ZTP,Double Clutch,19'' Alloys,Moonroof,PDC,iPod, Enhanced prem sound.

MSRP: 73,505

GIving it to me for 71,000.

This car is at a dealer and I would have to pay my a destination fee. I could also build my car and wait 8 weeks. My dealer is finally working with me after months of haggling. The 2010's have the 2500 cash back but none of those have the options I want.

With a 3 year lease, and 12k miles a year, I was quoted 1112.35 a month. I would put $5,000 down along with tags and tags. What would the numbers look like if I wanted to buy out the car instead of lease it? What other info do I need to provide? Would it be better to build it? I wanted to mod it and keep it for at least 5-6 years. I will upload a pic of the paperwork tonight, after I finish studying for my final. :)
 
#132 ·
I only owe 4200 on my car, and if I build, my remaining payments would be around 3k. I would just but pay that out and get into an M3.

Is this a good deal?

2011 BMW M3 Coupe

Le Mans Blue
ZPP,Carbon Leather Trim,ZTP,Double Clutch,19'' Alloys,Moonroof,PDC,iPod, Enhanced prem sound.

MSRP: 73,505

GIving it to me for 71,000.

This car is at a dealer and I would have to pay my a destination fee. I could also build my car and wait 8 weeks. My dealer is finally working with me after months of haggling. The 2010's have the 2500 cash back but none of those have the options I want.

With a 3 year lease, and 12k miles a year, I was quoted 1112.35 a month. I would put $5,000 down along with tags and tags. What would the numbers look like if I wanted to buy out the car instead of lease it? What other info do I need to provide? Would it be better to build it? I wanted to mod it and keep it for at least 5-6 years. I will upload a pic of the paperwork tonight, after I finish studying for my final. :)
I dunno, studying for a final and committing to a $71k plus tax car....seems like a disconnect to me. Maybe you already have a good paying job and money in the bank, etc., but the economy is much worse than what you read in the papers. I'd be scared to death to make that kind of commitment if I were still in school.
 
#139 ·
From the ask-a-dealer section...

2011 BMW M3 Coupe
24 Month ***8211; Residual 63% of MSRP ***8211; .00230 Base Rate
36 Month ***8211; Residual 57% of MSRP ***8211; .00230 Base Rate
48 Month ***8211; Residual 43% of MSRP ***8211; .00235 Base Rate
60 Month ***8211; Residual 35% of MSRP ***8211; .00235 Base Rate
 
#144 ·
This is assuming I lease it. I may buy it out.
Check Ask a Dealer, and use the invoice pricing sheets to calculate out your invoice price. I think $71K is high, but that's just me. If your credit's good you should also be able to get a better MF... I see .00260 on that; current rates are .00230. Also, that's a 59% residual; current is 57%. I think the dealer's trying to give you last month's rates, me old mucker :)

Having said that, the 59% residual would net you a better rate... but the MF seems high.

Finally, I'd agree with others here; do European Delivery. I can't think of a better way to celebrate completion of finals than to fly to Munich, pick up an M3 and go driving in the Alps for a week or two, can you? :) Besides, you can save another bundle of cash.
 
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