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X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

130K views 850 replies 74 participants last post by  Pierre Louis 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

what are your thoughts on this match-up? I'm convinced I'm going to buy a Diesel car, now it's a matter of deciding between the 2. I never thought I'd see these 2 cars priced so closely, but hey, thanks Porsche!

Let me know your thoughts,
Dan.
 
#495 ·
Amazing! There must have been something wrong with the GTS. 4k before it started to move up the waldo grade (that's the long hill before you get to the tunnel going south on the 101 toward SF)? Never had that happen to any car I have driven up that hill. My old Tahoe stormed up that thing without breaking a sweat and the Cayenne V6 I drove up there (thanks Sonnen!:D) handled it just fine with no gear hunting. I wanted to try the Cayenne diesel but they were not handing those out for test drives then. I was impressed with the V6 though, had more oooomph than I remembered from the old series engine. Probably the 8 speed box.:thumbup:
 
#496 ·
Cayenne GTS will run circles around an X5 35d, at any speed.

- Mike
 
#515 ·
+100.

I recently had one for a week. Lousy fuel economy and dated technology (compared to the most innovative hybrids today). :eek:

- Mike
 
#521 ·
Never could see the use of those "big" hybrids -- VW, Porsche, Lexus, 'slade, etc. They just don't get enough added mileage to justify the expense, and complicated drivetrain for limited performance gains. I would much rather have a Cayenne S than a hybrid.:angel:
Mike, nice review on the retro 302! Now then when do we get a retro "John Milner series" deuce coupe -- that one would be fun!:thumbup:
 
#522 ·
Thanks!

Send me a link to a car, and I will call them up and do a story! :thumbup:

- Mike
 
#524 ·
Is that place in San Diego? PM me.

- Mike
 
#526 ·
#530 ·
You watched the video? I don't even do that! :angel:

- Mike
 
#534 ·
That video is too funny. I would have stolen his camera. :)

- Mike
 
#537 ·
I still feel that BMW's engines are better... but Porsche has the lead in chassis technology.

But keep in mind that an all-new BMW platform will arrive within the next six months (let's hope it's a game-changer).

- Mike
 
#539 · (Edited)
Does this S version have the full blown Porsche AWD system as in the V6, S,GTS and Turbo or is the VW/Audi sourced system used in the Diesel and Hybrid?
Let me ask Matt Davis (he lives in Italy, so his reply may be delayed).

- Mike
 
#540 ·
Tomorrow brings shopping for a Porsche diesel for the wife who fell in love during the test drive the other day. Looks like the price tag will be around $80 to $85 with the crazy nosebleed priced options. I will be keeping the X5 because to this moment I am still amazed and thrilled every time I get in it. Can't bash the Porsche but I did tell the salesman that I noticed he had it in Sport Mode" when my wife was driving. The X5 is spunky in that mode as well. They talking "No Discounts" but if they want retail for their unit then I will want retail for my wife's trade in too, see how that goes over, lol. Really, no discount???
 
#544 · (Edited)
You can get 6% discount from most ALL Porsche dealers for the more common Porsche's (limited availability models may well require MSRP or even premiums above MSRP) but for a Cayenne Diesel (thread title)? YEA, 6% off pretty much ANY configuration. You just need to TELL THEM that is what they need to do to get you to complete the deal.
 
#546 ·
"You just need to tell them....." Right! And out here they will tell you "thank you for your interest but the car you are interested in has three other buyers standing in line behind you!" Now, for USED cars that is a different story. There you can make a decent deal especially if you know how long it has been in stock (for all its warts CARFAX does give you a good idea there) and obviously the longer it sits the more anxious they are to move it. New cars fly out the door here and there is little incentive to deal, but you might get a small discount to "make you feel good" especially if you have a trade in which they can work with. All in all it is indeed a sellers market at the Porsche Store here in the valley.:tsk:
 
#553 · (Edited)
Well that answers the question about the Cayenne S diesel -- but what about the diesel we get here? What drivetrain does that one have -- is it the same as the T-egg and Q7 diesel? I got the impression that the diesel drivetrain was more robust (and also heavier) than the "new" quattro-like system used in the gasser Cayennes. The diesel 4WD system still had the locker and low range used in previous year's (prior to '11) and hence was more off road capable. Ideal for getting wayward scribes out of creekbeds and tundra in Alaska as I recall.:D
 
#554 · (Edited)
As I understand it the base diesel uses a Torsen diff system while the gassers uses an electronic system with clutches to distribute torque. Torsen is a good AWD system but it does not give the same RWD bias and feel under good grip conditions, it's heavier and often results in a less optimal weight distribution and lacks some features to automatically lock the differentials. VW and Audi also uses a similar electronic system ( Haldex ) in many cars but this acts as an FWD when grip is good. I think the T-egg and Q's uses the same type of Torsen system as the the base diesel. All has dumped the low range transfer case. The diesels manual lock is for the center diff, something that as i understand it the gassers system handles automatically.
 
#556 ·
Henry the BMW system is different than the AV(P)G systems -- not to say its any worse or better just different. All the systems are the same in that they provide four wheel drive of course, and share other features as well. As far as the Cayenne/T-egg-Q7 diesels go, I believe that the diesel drive trains retain the prior system with the locker low range and weight penalty -- of course that adds off road capability for those insane enough to run the Rubicon with their new diesel Cayenne! However Mike would know the definitive answer -- having used one off road up in the far North.:thumbup:
 
#558 · (Edited)
They use different systems... of which I am no expert. I am going to assume that Porsche's "premium" system (not on Cayenne Diesel but on the S, GTS and Turbo) is more sophisticated and lighter than BMW's. However, its "basic" system (found on Cayenne Diesel) is inferior.

Keep in mind that tires and ground clearance, not the ultimate sophistication of the AWD system, make all the difference when the pavement ends. :thumbup:

Oh, look what Aston Martin put in my driveway yesterday... https://twitter.com/Schnell_Auto/status/281123951638360064/photo/1/large

- Mike
 
#561 · (Edited)
Porsche's description of the two systems on page 49 and page 50. It's not very detailed on the diesel / hybrid but as far as I know that system uses a Torsen diff. I think the 60% rear wheel bias it offers is far to little for the 911 where the electronically controlled Porsche system used in the other Cayennes is a must since it gives ~90% rear wheel bias at good grip. This more advanced system is supposed to offer a purer sports feel, be lighter and be better off-road. The old Cayenne / T-egg system with a low range transfer case is history.

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/ipad/assets/downloads/kataloge/en/Cayenne.pdf

To me, it seems like you are giving up quite a lot of important Porsche AWD advancements with the diesel in good and poor grip.
 
#562 ·
The PDF helps quite a bit. It looks like Porsche uses brake as in the case of BMW X5 for side to side adjustment.

If one of the wheels is about to lose traction, PTM uses the ABD function to apply the corresponding brake. As a result, more drive is automatically transferred to the opposite wheel.
Speaking of rear wheel bias, why does BMW X3 offers an option to go 80% rear and 20% front where as the BMW X5 is 60% rear and 40% front? I thought it is just a software thing to keep the ratio different. BMW X5 supposed to be able to move 100% torque in either axel or did I remembered this wrong. :dunno:

As for my reference for electronic locking differential, I thought that was the term for using brake to emulate limited slip differential. It slows down the faster wheel hence more torque applies to the wheel with the grip.

Besides off road, is there any reason why you really need a locking differential on center and all wheel locking differential? Does snow change that characteristic that much?
 
#566 ·
nda is probably right for the base Cayenne gasser (if you can find one), but right now the diesels are in short supply and high demand. Any "tell them" approach would (at least around here) be met with a bemused look and a gentle, if you don't want the car at this price then we have other customers who do.:D
 
#569 ·
VW T-egg is similar although I remembered it being at 3k miles. I went and looked/drove all four(TDI T-egg, Porsche diesel, X5d, and ML350 BT) this past Friday. If I buy something it will be tomorrow but not one of them I left feeling sold on at all. I went and drove an ML550 yesterday and that sold me but unfortunately the only one in town I could find was the decked out one I drove and not going to pay that much for an SUV.
 
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