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Motortrend video slamming 2013 Alpina B7 vs Audi S8

53K views 89 replies 29 participants last post by  AutoUnion 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4&feature=player_embedded

have you guys seen this? It figures that after three S8's I am now swithing to the B7 (arrives in 2 weeks). Still, performance aside, the new Audi looks boring compared to the Alpina.

On this week's episode of Head 2 Head, senior features editor Jonny Lieberman is pitting two luxury tuner limousines, the BMW 7 Series-based Alpina B7 and Audi S8, against one another to see which of the new performance-tuned German luxury flagships is best.

Lieberman starts out by comparing the B7 and the S8 on the track. While on paper 4.4-liter twin-turbo V8's 540 hp and 538 lb-ft of torque of the B7 far outclasses the 512 hp and 479 lb-ft the all-wheel drive S8's 4.0-liter twin-turbo V-8 produces, the Audi destroyed the Alpina in a straight line, needing 3.5 second to hit 60 mph from a standstill, as opposed to the B7's 4.3 second run.
http://wot.motortrend.com/super-sed...s8-face-off-on-newest-head-2-head-281025.html
 
#35 ·
Something like this:

http://www.northwestautosalon.com/full-vinyl-vehicle-wraps-in-seattle/

http://www.northwestautosalon.com/vehicle_wraps_gallery/

It'll run you 4-6k depending on type of vehicle and how extensively the wrap is applied (e.g. door jams etc).

"The products we put on the vehicles we wrap are premium, top of the line, automotive grade vinyl films. This vinyl is specially designed for use on vehicles using paint-safe adhesive, malleability, and air-release features that make installation on your car as safe as possible. Unlike a repaint which will ruin the original value of your vehicle, a vinyl wrap will actually protect it! Because the entire vehicle is covered with 3-4 mils thick vinyl, the paint surface is protected from most regular road debris.

Another reason wrapping a vehicle is a far better idea then repainting it is that the wrap is not permanent. If, after a while, you want to change the color or go back to the stock look, the wrap can easily be removed by one of our skilled technicians. By using us for the uninstall, we can assure you that your vehicle will be returned to the same condition as before it was wrapped."
 
#34 ·
A little disappointed in the dyno numbers for BMW. I personally do not care for the styling of the Audi. I am very impressed with the Audi's performance numbers, especially considering the size of the car.
 
#36 ·
Talked to someone with a flat black lambo once and he said he was against wrapping it because it only last a year or so before you have to redo it.

Passing through brentwood today I saw a S550 with a Designo badge that was matte white. Had some kind of metallic element in the paint that made it stand out a bit more than some of the flat whites I've seen here and there.
 
#37 ·
I've got a metallic wrap on my 750i. I've had it for a year, and it's been pretty easy to maintain. I don't go into auto car washes, just wash at home. Don't use wax, but that wouldn't help the wrap look anyways. I paid $3,750 for mine, they did the tint as well. All lines are straight, and everything matches well. I've loved having a metallic wrap, as it sets you apart from the 100+ 7 series that I seem to see everyday in LA. I would probably do it again, the time it takes to do one is a pain though.

More pics here: http://www.momentum-motors.com/web/used/BMW-7-Series-2009---/3048036/
 
#40 ·
I've been admiring your car for quite a while now. Very well done!
 
#39 · (Edited)
Has anyone here driven the latest S8? And the B7? In a test drive. Any conclusions on the validity of the MotorTrend test?

Personally, I'm very surprised by the HP figures achieved, since my understanding is that BMW usually underquotes. However, I would also be surprised if MotorTrend or K&N somehow botched the testing, where the car went into a "safe" mode, the car wasn't in Sport where it releases all the ponies etc. There doesn't seem to be a logical explanation as to the discrepancy.

I'm not disappointed, more surprised. I'm a firm believer in the fact that better competitor cars leads to better BMWs.
 
#42 ·
The B7 is not in a "safe" mode, base on 4660 lbs and trap speed of 113.6 from the 1/4 mile video, flywheel HP is aorund 533...little low but fairly close to 540 factory spec.

The S8 most likely a ringer, base on 4641 lbs and trap speed of 118.3 flywheel HP is around 599....that is almost 80HP more than factory spec. Little extra boost is always fun :) and BMW/Alpina need to learn and make sure to setup a Dinan flash B7 as press car next time.
 
#47 · (Edited)
Let me comment as someone who has wasted productive hours mulling the issue. I would argue that BMW don't make their sportiest cars, like the M3 and M5 cars in AWD.

Most people agree that AWD is heavier and offers less steering feel, turn in, generally speaking. What is often in debate is real world performance (or even track performance), since an AWD car can usually be driven faster by the untrained, but some argue in the hands of a professional, RWD can be faster. Regardless of speed, the majority of testers say that RWD cars offer more enjoyment since they tend to have better feedback. In slippery or adverse conditions, AWD is the clear winner.

Complicating the matter is that there is rarely 2 cars that are the same that are identical other than being AWD or RWD - usually there is something different in the engine, suspension, ride height etc. For example, the Porsche 911 Turbo does come in RWD, but as the GT2, which is a performance special and only indirectly comparable to the AWD Turbo.
 
#50 · (Edited)
IMO RWD is much more fun and driver can push the limit higher compare with AWD. AWD most of time can enter corner little faster (pending on size of corner) but most of time RWD will exit more quickly which result in similar or better lap time. During endurance race AWD will always have faster tire/brake wear (which means more pit stop) due to entering corner with higher speed. Top speed wise, usually AWD lost more power due to distribution and as result it require more power to achieve the same high speed (80mph+) acceleration as RWD. There is a reason why Lamborghini start to offer RWD car nowadays like the Aventador LP700-2, Gallardo LP570-2, etc plus Ferrari F12 offer RWD only. Those buyers want to experience the car at maximal potential which only RWD can offer. Also, AWD can give the driver a sense of false security which can be danger. Of course, there are car that is AWD and fun to drive like the GT-R, Carrera 4S, and etc but in general RWD rule the track.

If 0-60, 1/4 mile is your thing then go all out on AWD. If intent to enjoy corner, high speed acceleration then RWD is your friend. Basically, pending on target goal just need to choose your tool wisely.
 
#52 ·
I should have my 2013 B7 in two weeks (currently on the ship headed to NJ). I will report in on how it drives vs my last three S8's. The B7 will be SWB AWD in Alpina Blue with ivory/black interior. Can't wait. I suspect the S8 will drive/handle better but the B7 is million times better looking.
 
#55 ·
Sat in the S8 and honestly it is one of the finest interiors I have ever seen - almost on par with Bentley. I think it is a beautiful car in/out and I would love to own one. I did test drive the s6. What a great car as well.
 
#56 ·
But it's such a ugly car, the S6 is even worst. Minus the fancy LED lights and I swear you would think both cars came out 10 years ago.

I might be bias because I have the S5 but I do like the A5/S5/RS5and the R8 in terms of exterior styling, the rest of the Audi's are way too boring.
 
#57 ·
I agree that the fun factor makes RWD a better choice. However, from a pure drag race perspective, AWD is just better performance. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, however, when Motor Trend rolls out an obvious Audi cheater car and tests it against a rwd B7 (for which we know to be slower than xdrive)...something's not right.

The highest performance Porsche sold in the US right now now is the 911 Turbo S which utilizes AWD 60/40 rear wheel bias. (Only available in AWD).

As far as the weight argument, the weight spec difference in the F01 is an additional 35 kg for xDrive which is why the acceleration numbers are better for the xDrive.

Sure, RWD is more fun but if you want pure acceleration performance from a standstill, AWD is where it's at.
 
#61 ·
Doesn't the B7 have a limited slip diff as well? I admit to not knowing if so. One detraction of the B7 is the weight - to make it produce the power it does, they beefed up a lot of the components, added coolers etc. Likely to the detriment of response. So if Audi didn't do similarly, or less so, that may make the car more fragile in the long term, to the benefit of performance. Nothing to back that up - just a thought.
 
#64 ·
Doesn't the B7 have a limited slip diff as well? I admit to not knowing if so. One detraction So if Audi didn't do similarly, or less so, that may make the car more fragile in the long term, to the benefit of performance. Nothing to back that up - just a thought.
Couldn't agree more, Audi is behind on market share so they have to be aggressive and do everything it takes. Other forum members are already buzzing on this new 4.0TT engine from Audi, especially detuned version on S6/S7 and by the example of this S8 those detuned car should able to reach 600HP just by simple ECU tune. Perfect for short term ownership like a 36 mo lease, sure don***8217;t want to be the last one holding the bag.
 
#62 ·
The B7 does not have a limited slip diff. It adds weight, but is likely worth the extra pounds. The Audi is 4610lbs due to 100% aluminum chassis/frame. If it were built on a steel based system, it would be over 5000lbs. Audi is thinking of discontinuing the aluminum system in the next generation. Maybe due to costs?
 
#65 ·
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/11/01/audi-october-sales/1672995/

Speaking of market share.....(exerps from todays news)
Audi continued to be one of the fastest-growing premium brands in the U.S.
It was a record October for the brand and marked 22 months of sales gains in the U.S.
Sales of A8 flagship were up 54.7% it said, driven in part by the introduction of the S8 high-performance version.
The redone A6 was up 36.6% for the month and is up 96.8% year-to-date.

So it appears the struggling with market share is working to make things better. How are the 750s selling vs. last year?
 
#66 ·
#74 ·
Audi ranked almost last on ConsumerReports and JDPower dependability list. The S8 looks like it has down syndrome to be honest. Idc how fast it is, I would go Alpina not only cause I am a BMW enthusiast but I've owned and been around Audi and hate their way of everything. I bet you those numbers are inflated and BS. I would still put my money on that B7. Your telling me the S8 is as fast as a Z06? Don't think so.
 
#85 ·
Audi ranked almost last on ConsumerReports and JDPower dependability list.
What crap. How do you explain these ratings? Audi higher than BMW in BOTH JDPower and CR.

Audi is the most reliable Euro brand and top-non Japanese brand (according to CR)

CR


JDpower


I bet you those numbers are inflated and BS.
How so? Just because they make the BMW look like a joke and you don't like Audi doesn't make them bull****. Both BMW and Audi underrate their cars. Look at the N54/55 cars. They make much more than the quoted 300hp. Now BMW is caught lying. And it's not just the B7's power ratings. They also lied on the 328i's fuel economy ratings and had to change them. :rofl:
 
#75 · (Edited)
somehow I have a "feeling" that consumers reports would be thrown aside if bmw ranked last.......come on man...you'd buy the bimmer anyway?

Have some self respect and stop grasping at straws. Sometimes its ok to for the bad guys to be better. I accept ones opinion on feel/looks ect....but the rest is denial.
 
#76 ·
I m hearing RINGER when I hear a car that lists 520 flywheel hp and delivers 479 wheel hp .....through an all wheel drive system no less...the drivetrain loss makes this all the more suspect..

Does anyone question the logic of a full size awd 4400 lb sedan outperforming the rest of the Audi lineup?

ECU tunes are simple with turbocharged motors to provide winners and elevate the image of a brand..

I dont drive a BMW or an audi and I think they are both wonderful luxury sports sedans...

Still 479 wheel hp doesn't add up ..

The 600 lb heavier Bentley with a warmed over tt V8 does zero to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds and does the quarter mile in 12.5 seconds @ 111 mph..(,ptprweek video show)

600 lbs is heavier but not so drastic that the acceleration times would be so different..

I'm surprised the porsche panamera turbo is slower than this S8 as well..Again surprising...
 
#77 · (Edited)
while your chasing down ringers....take a peek at M5 rated 560chp....laying down 530whp on a dyno....get back to us with the same enthusiasm please. The bmw crowd understand forced induction cars being under rated....only the ones looking in from afar are questioning this. I believe the M5 is hugely under rated, 530 vs s8s 480....thats 50 more, and its 400cc bigger...all is well.

Panamera turbo is 4400lbs, and has less hp than both these cars.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762953
 
#78 ·
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