you're all crazy

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

No, the E90 was too small (for me.) The F30 is better, and probably acceptable, but something between the F30 and the F10 is something I would really love to have. A remake of the old E60, or something just slightly smaller, would be perfect.

I've only seen one or two F30s in person, so I have no love yet. I admit that the F10 looks gobs better in person than in any picture I've seen; I assume the F30 will as well. I look forward to the coupe design.

Then again, a 535i xDrive would probably be faster than my 2005 545 at this altitude, and as I said, the 545 feels a little high strung to me at times.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I've only seen one or two F30s in person, so I have no love yet. I admit that the F10 looks gobs better in person than in any picture I've seen; I assume the F30 will as well. I look forward to the coupe design.

Then again, a 535i xDrive would probably be faster than my 2005 545 at this altitude, and as I said, the 545 feels a little high strung to me at times.

Well, when you go to replace your 5er, and if you want to stay in the BMW family, I think you will find that the new Five series car has lost the sporty road feel that your current one has. It's a beautiful luxury car, and there's nothing wrong with that. But, if you want to maintain that connected feel you will need to go to the new 3er, which is still a good step down from the E60 in size. In my mind though, it's a great improvement over the E90 because it has a bit more space, and lot more luxury, tech, and styling.

Originally Posted by mdsbuc

No, the E90 was too small (for me.) The F30 is better, and probably acceptable, but something between the F30 and the F10 is something I would really love to have. A remake of the old E60, or something just slightly smaller, would be perfect.

I suspect that the Porsche Pajun will be right in this sweet spot, somewhere between the E39 and the E60 in size. Another 2-3 years and we will know. I will not decide on my next car until it is released.

The Panamera competes with the M5, the 6 and 7 series. I think the Pajun will compete with the M3, 4 and 5 series including a vert.

Originally Posted by grilodan

1) I will just say that if you've never had a BMW before the F10, you don't fully understand where a lot of people are coming from. BMWs have always been known for their razor-sharp steering and that's just gone with Electric Power Steering. The throttle lag that we're now experiencing is due to a crappy transmission and BMW can't figure it out. This isn't as obvious on 550s.

2) @highyo - you drive a 550 xDrive ... that means you do not have EPS, you have a hydraulic steering system. Yours is more old school, a little too light on my opinion, but nothing like the EPS. You will not experience what some of us keep repeating

3) also, dinan has been known to significantly help the lag issue and transforms the car quite a bit. You do not have a solid baseline for comparison.

1) I think the throttle lag and even some of the steering issues have been hit or miss from car to car. I would also say the EPS equipped F10s that I have driven are much better than what I remember from driving the E12 528i. (Hopefully, I get some purist cred for that comment. ) I think every new generation of the 5 Series has become a bit softer and a bit more civilized.

2) I, like Highyo, bought a 550xi with hydraulic steering. If you look at the contributors here at the Fest, there are a disproportionate of 550xi owners. The same is true for Dinan equipped 550xi's. So, I think our positive reviews might be helping some prospective buyers pick the 550xi. I think we must be giving good advice, since I can't find too many posts complaining about the 550xi. Hmm...

3) We all buy stock cars and then have Dinan installed at a later date, so we actually have a basis for comparison. I may have only put in a relatively short 900 mostly European miles before my install, but I knew it was something I wanted based upon my test drives before I ordered my car. I also knew I needed lighter wheels, much better tires, and stiffer springs, but I'm not the typical 5 Series driver.

I Love my F10

Originally Posted by highyo

no argument there, i have often said (and the % keep changing) that the f10 is 85% of the e60 in the twisty and 150% of anything i have ever driven on the highways. but there is a trade off for it. you will never be able to reduce that weight, for sure. but some here have taken weight lower by swapping out wheels etc. all these things wont change the simple fact that they are two different cars. i just don't get the whole "lexus" or "disconnected" thing that many complain about.

Sounds like we are in agreement. Yes I would agree that the F10 is not totally disconnected from the road or Lexus like in feel. It is just less communicative than the E60--an inevitable effect of the size and weight gain. The E60 was an extraordinarily communicative handling car with shockingly high limits of lateral grip. I am very very very happy with my F10 and I do think it is a great car.

Originally Posted by dunderhi

1) I think the throttle lag and even some of the steering issues have been hit or miss from car to car. I would also say the EPS equipped F10s that I have driven are much better than what I remember from driving the E12 528i. (Hopefully, I get some purist cred for that comment. ) I think every new generation of the 5 Series has become a bit softer and a bit more civilized.

2) I, like Highyo, bought a 550xi with hydraulic steering. If you look at the contributors here at the Fest, there are a disproportionate of 550xi owners. The same is true for Dinan equipped 550xi's. So, I think our positive reviews might be helping some prospective buyers pick the 550xi. I think we must be giving good advice, since I can't find too many posts complaining about the 550xi. Hmm...

3) We all buy stock cars and then have Dinan installed at a later date, so we actually have a basis for comparison. I may have only put in a relatively short 900 mostly European miles before my install, but I knew it was something I wanted based upon my test drives before I ordered my car. I also knew I needed lighter wheels, much better tires, and stiffer springs, but I'm not the typical 5 Series driver.

yeah what dunder said!

as for throttle lag etc, pre-dinan (and i had 1500 miles on car before dinan stage 1 and probably another 1000 before stage 2) i did not notice that at all. maybe it was the nannies that sport + (or dsc off) would cut back on, maybe i just got lucky. but i never felt lag.

and it was a happy coincidence that the xdrive had the hydraulic steering, since i think the steering is very communicative, but in a heavier car. i hate to say heavier, because though the weight is more than the e60, the car feels much more substantial. the e60 was wonderful, i will miss my old 535, but i have no doubts that the f10 is a superior auto. my wife agrees. maybe that's what they were going for??

again comparing it to the M3, the F10 feels like a spaceship, its take off is scary fast (way way faster off the line than the M3) and the serenity of the cabin is to be praised, not punished. the f10 is just so "above it all". it reminds me of a hard to get classy chick.

the m3 is a dirty dirty girl

Originally Posted by highyo

the f10 is just so "above it all". it reminds me of a hard to get classy chick.

the m3 is a dirty dirty girl

That may be the single best argument for having both a F10 and M3 I've ever heard. Time to visit my CA.....

Originally Posted by bighungry618

That may be the single best argument for having both a f10 and m3 i've ever heard. Time to visit my ca.....

+1

Originally Posted by bighungry618

That may be the single best argument for having both a f10 and m3 i've ever heard. Time to visit my ca.....

+1

Originally Posted by DerStig

Have you ever driven a Porsche? I don't think you have, you sound really illiterate. All the rich (not upper middle class like most people here) drive it fine to country clubs and play golf. Do you actually put a child seat into your E92 M3?

Sorry, you are not making sense, I honestly never understand people over spending to these middle class german cars (Merc, BMW, Audi, VW, etc). They are luxury to 90% of the world, but if you are in that 10%, you should have spent your money better.

LOL i think he earned it so he can spend it on anything and anyway he pleases...

i currently have a 08 550i m sport and 11 535 msport listed at 76k and am looking to trade the e60 for a new m3.. guess im nuts too

e60 even with a larger engine feels lighter on its feet and tossible like my old e90 but when you get in an f10... e60 feels and looks so old. it really does make it feel like a a new level of luxury. and in sport + it is quite a bit of fun to drive.

Originally Posted by park828

LOL i think he earned it so he can spend it on anything and anyway he pleases...

i currently have a 08 550i m sport and 11 535 msport listed at 76k and am looking to trade the e60 for a new m3.. guess im nuts too

e60 even with a larger engine feels lighter on its feet and tossible like my old e90 but when you get in an f10... e60 feels and looks so old. it really does make it feel like a a new level of luxury. and in sport + it is quite a bit of fun to drive.

thanks, you are basically going to be doing the same exact thing i did. the M3 is like going back in time, in a good way. i think that engine is run on coal power. it's been said before and will be said again, but when you cross 6,000 RPM (not just for the first time, everytime) you understand what "mpower" means. i think that sound is so underpriced.

the water is fine. jump on in!

Originally Posted by DerStig

Have you ever driven a Porsche? I don't think you have, you sound really illiterate. All the rich (not upper middle class like most people here) drive it fine to country clubs and play golf. Do you actually put a child seat into your E92 M3?

Sorry, you are not making sense, I honestly never understand people over spending to these middle class german cars (Merc, BMW, Audi, VW, etc). They are luxury to 90% of the world, but if you are in that 10%, you should have spent your money better.

bizarro

Originally Posted by park828

LOL i think he earned it so he can spend it on anything and anyway he pleases...

+1000

Originally Posted by highyo

thanks, you are basically going to be doing the same exact thing i did. the M3 is like going back in time, in a good way. i think that engine is run on coal power. it's been said before and will be said again, but when you cross 6,000 RPM (not just for the first time, everytime) you understand what "mpower" means. i think that sound is so underpriced.

the water is fine. jump on in!

Cool thing about the M3 world is that it is rather discrete - understated in its own brash way - an oxymoron given the very audible nature of the car. I was a PCA member for many years, and I used to notice there were two distinct types of owners - those who were really into their cars and loved driving, and the others who wore their Porsches as jewelry.

In the last 7 months I have had a few encounters with fellow M3 drivers and to a man - the passion for driving is the glue that binds the community. Indeed, I think I have a pretty cool looking car but only other M drivers pay attention - and frequently will wave. After all an M3 to most people is just another 3 series.

The M3 pond really is fine - and it doesn't bother me in the least that only a few may actually take the plunge and/or ever notice...those few, are guys who know something about cars, and love to drive.

I drive my M3 for me...although IMO my M3 and I do make a fetching couple

Capo, chapeau!
Well spoken for a former Porsche and GT driver.
I can not haul my stuff around in your car, otherwise I would surely like to drive a M3 for a couple of years.