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545i Blue smoke after idle, Valve seals?

101K views 369 replies 32 participants last post by  Westlotorn 
#1 ·
I noticed the other day some blue smoke behind the car, i thought it was another car kept driving, today i noticed again a small amount of blue smoke after i pulled away from the light. Its not a huge cloud of smoke but it was undeniably coming from my car. I just went outside and turned the car on let it idle for about 10mins and gave a hard rev and got a small amount of smoke nothing crazy.

Im pretty much convinced 3/4s of the common problems with this era of BMW is due to the long oil change intervals. I got nissans, some with 300k on them doing 3-5K intervals not a drop of oil burned off, infact the oil one that does burn oil is because of an aftermarket turbo and its the turbo not the motor burning oil, i know its not that BMW uses cheap rubbers and other materials to build their motors. Of course this is just my theory. :dunno:

But im not in a position to spend 3Gs in repairs right now. Moving to a thicker oil(15W-40 or 20W-50) is what i plan to do and change the oil every 5-10k instead of 20-30k or whatever is recommended. Hopefully slow down the progression of the valve seal problem. Im pretty sure it will not but im not use to BMWs yet so moving to a synthetic 15W or 20W oil or even a dino since they tend to be a bit thicker and better with oil burn off and slipping past seals, should not cause problems?

Im uploading a vid of the smoke i saw.
 
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#205 ·
pulling the dipstick on that wont.
crack the oil cap and it will.
you have to have a leak for a while to get the light to come on. Its buffered.
Not sure why there would be a difference between oil cap & dipstick tube. I get vacuum at the dipstick tube just fine. But, I'll drill my old oil cap and plumb a line to it. This way it won't sling oil on the valve cover.
 
#206 ·
So Biguglyfab why do cars with low miles driven gently still get the valve seal guide blown past secondary problem?The dealer did this early in the engines life for the worn intermediate levers?Well WTF! now we know the this whole valvetronic design is a POS!Plenty of N62tu engines popping up with same issues so it wasn't just a run of bad levers that have an SIB.
 
#209 ·
Someone in a previous post had it correct - These engines are not designed for my wife's average commute. My 550I gets driven within a 3>5 mile trip - several times a day - 5>6 days a week. Maybe once a week it will hit the freeway for an extended trip, but that's maybe for 20>30 miles in one direction to a meeting. Each time it cold starts, I can now imagine that initial burst of oily air coming from the crankcase to the intake several times a day while trying to achieve crankcase vacuum.
 
#210 ·
I still say if you have oil in the manifold you will smoke. Oil in the manifold is not valve stem seals, bad design or good design of BMW valve stem seals aside. Oil in the manifold says your crankcase ventilation is not working correctly.
Fix that and see what you have. My family is now 3 for 3 on this. 3 X5's no longer smoke. My wifes, my son's and my son fixed a friends. My 08 was not bad at all but started pulling oil through the Pass side vent tube into the manifold and starting to use oil between changes at 75K. It is fixed.
My son's 4.4L and his friends 4.4L 135k and 145K had oil in both vent tubes and a lot in the manifolds, they smoked a lot a t idle. Both fixed. All have OEM valve stem seals and are not burning oil any longer.
So 3 for 3 so far. I do not think this is coincidence. The clear tube installation is a great idea, perfect for a test. If our 3 engines had bad valve stem seals the would smoke on start up and then clear up. Not the case, they smoked hot and idling not on start up.
Good luck to all of you. My wifes 2008 never smoked that I saw but it started using a little oil, 1/2 qt on a 2,000 mile trip. It is fixed. My son's was using a lot, I think 1Qt in 500-800 miles at 135K and it is fixed and no longer uses oil or smokes.
On his friends car they did not clean the oil out of his manifold when they changed valve cover gaskets and fixed the vents and changed all the Oring seals. That one smoked for a couple weeks while the manifold cleaned up. It should have been cleaned. It now is smoke free and not burning oil any longer. I know BMW has terms for each of the Crankcase vents but I don't know them. I do know they go bad and need to be fixed.
 
#216 · (Edited)
Again, if you are smoking and your intake has no oil in it this is not your solution. This will only help with oil in the intake manifold.
On the front of the heads there is Vanos control unit, each has an Oring seal that can start leaking, look for any oil leak around this unit.
My 4.8L has this on the front, maybe the 4.4 does not but it does have the upper timing cover gasket and that can leak.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...am_X=393&BMW_Diagram_Y=622&BMW_Diagram_POS=09

These Orings are only like 2.50 each. Read up on taking each control out and be careful with the wire connectors, don't move the engine at all while these are apart.
Valve cover breather valve, (Positive crankcase ventilation control)

I could not find a good photo, but under the guys hand in this photo is the Valve control, one on each valve cover, it has an Oring or Gasket that can leak.
Sorry but I don't really know which unit BMW calls Valvetronic and which they call Vanos. My 4.8L is double vanos.

Utube video of CCV replacement, I do not endorse any of the technique used but the video and photo is great and you can see the valve control sitting on top of the valve cover, this is one potential leak in addition to the CCV replacement.
The Valve covers are common leaks
The Vanos control if your engine has it.
Change the oring on your dip stick.
Any of the above can leak so change them all.
It is possible that only one bank of your engine is leaking, in that case you only need to fix that side to cure your issue but the seals and gaskets are the same age on both sides so the other side will fail soon. Changing both gives you peace of mind.
If one oil breather tube has oil in it that is your bad side, my son's had both leaking, one pass side was a bad leak and the drivers side had a slight leak. He used a ton of oil and smoked.
you can see the breather tubes in this photo, one is under the throttle butterfly and one is above to the right.
 

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#212 · (Edited)
anyone want me to do anything to this one while i retime it? im not feeling well and will finish this in the morning early.

And i still believe that excessive intake vacuum applied to the intake valve guide seals is causing this issue..... all the engines i have put valve seals in, NONE have come back for smoke issues- and I've done a TON. not one or two. im talking way past 30 now.
 

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#215 ·
How many of your Valve stem seal replacements were put back together with the old gaskets?
My guess is Zero. I think you are fixing the problem by changing leaking gaskets as part of a prudent repair of the valve stem seals.
They pull air in, they do not necessarily leak oil out.
 
#217 ·
Sorry. That dog does not hunt.

If it has enough air to leak (and its a VERY small amount allowed) it's going to throw a check engine light on for multiplicative and additive values.
You'll be dealing with a check engine light as well for this.

If air leaks in, oil will leak out. Period.


And DO NOT mess with the valvetronic motors unless you have the technology to properly readapt them, or you face possible valve damage.

In have seen this first hand at the dealership and Indy world, and had to fix It as well.

And by you stating "Vanos control if you engine has it"...... What? Lol
 
#218 ·
Westlotorn - I agree with the theory of air leaking into the crankcase can/will increase air/oil to the intake (which I verified by removing my dipstick & watched as the oily air in my clear CCV tubes ran for my intake) I also agree that you can have an air leak in while not leaking oil to the outside (I see this all the time with diesel fuel systems) But you just hurt our cause - you can't hand them the ammunition and the gun. Even I will research something before I post. Big Ugly is doing the happy dance right now.

Big Ugly - You promised me pictures. And in my situation the check engine light never came on - otherwise I would have caught my torn CCVs well before it drank a 55 gal. drum of oil (I'm exaggerating a bit)
 
#219 · (Edited)
lol, If i didnt post pictures a week from now, I could understand- but dang dude, I only got home at 20:30, got up at 05:30 to get here early and knock out some administrative and time consuming work before I got back on this car lol

I guess I should have worked on it all night :thumbup:


In any case, here's your picture buddy :p



and I think it is STILL being overlooked-

if you have a slight air leak, you WILL deal with a check engine light- plain and simple.
it totally debunks the theory of "air leaking in causing this issue" you guys keep repeating.


I guess the next time i fix a N62/tu with a multiplicative/additive issue and have to smoke test the engine- ill have to show you HOW LITTLE air it can consume post MAF to prove it? :dunno:



also, while i agree that air intake on a diesel fuel system sucks (ive been there), i dont think it is a relative comparison to a valve cover gasket or other engine seals that are consistently being splashed with hot oil, then allowed to sit and cool down/contract over and over. Valve covers leak in the corners since the seals harden and oil sits on top of it.

you should know this better than anyone working on diesel's. that stuff will seep thru ANY pin hole leak.
 

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#220 ·
lol, If i didnt post pictures a week from now, I could understand- but dang dude, I only got home at 20:30, got up at 05:30 to get here early and knock out some administrative and time consuming work before I got back on this car lol
I guess I should have worked on it all night :thumbup:
In any case, here's your picture buddy :p
and I think it is STILL being overlooked-
if you have a slight air leak, you WILL deal with a check engine light- plain and simple.
it totally debunks the theory of "air leaking in causing this issue" you guys keep repeating.
I guess the next time i fix a N62/tu with a multiplicative/additive issue and have to smoke test the engine- ill have to show you HOW LITTLE air it can consume post MAF to prove it? :dunno:
also, while i agree that air intake on a diesel fuel system sucks (ive been there), i dont think it is a relative comparison to a valve cover gasket or other engine seals that are consistently being splashed with hot oil, then allowed to sit and cool down/contract over and over. Valve covers leak in the corners since the seals harden and oil sits on top of it.
you should know this better than anyone working on diesel's. that stuff will seep thru ANY pin hole leak.
Thanks for the photo - hope you're feeling better - it's probably the water.

So the oil separator is a sealed unit - no way to see the inners or sevice other then flush? Are those the drain holes at the nipples?
 
#223 ·
I misread what you said.

you see the rectangle shaped hole at the upper left? thats intake.

the three peaked thingies in the middle pointing up in the pictures are the drains

remember, the valve cover is at a heavy angle, so they (the peaked things in the middle) drain off when its on the engine.
 
#224 ·
Big ugly do the CCVs operate on a pressure difference?As in close some open some or do they not move?If air is let in from crankcase when blow by is at its minimum will not this effect the pressure difference?I had some major leaks at the valve covers and alternator bracket,upper oil pan still no check engine light.Cant keep you straight ,were you saying intake leaks or crankcase ?Or both?By the way my car is running great also just thought I would try to figure some more of this out.Oh and back to the valve lift set max being the problem and sucking oil away from valve seals.This would mean you are saying extra valve lift makes vacuum greater than the stock .3.Does it matter if the CCVs are closed when vacuum is greatest?So CCVs don't completely close.
 
#225 ·
Big ugly do the CCVs operate on a pressure difference?
what do you think the spring is there for?
If air is let in from crankcase when blow by is at its minimum will not this effect the pressure difference?
i dont understand, please re-word the question
I had some major leaks at the valve covers will cause some air leak and alternator bracket cannot cause an air leak- it is under oil pressure upper oil pan i doubt that was leaking, but thats besides the point. still no check engine light. what were your multiplicative and additive values?
Cant keep you straight ,were you saying intake leaks or crankcase?Or both? either, it makes no difference.
By the way my car is running great also just thought I would try to figure some more of this out.Oh and back to the valve lift set max being the problem and sucking oil away from valve seals.This would mean you are saying extra valve lift makes vacuum greater than the stock .3.
YES!
Does it matter if the CCVs are closed when vacuum is greatest?So CCVs don't completely close.
CCV's are opened when spring pressure/intake vacuum is equal. when its under HEAVY vacuum at idle (.8 lift) the spring is easily overcome. hence burning oil. at .3 lift, the intake is under hardly any vacuum.
:thumbup:
 
#228 ·
no, just contrast :)

no. This is common when the cyclone seporator is ignored. it finally fails, causing direct intake vacuum to be put into the crank case and it literally sucks it out like a straw.

Ive seen bent rods, blown intake manifolds- all sorts of engine damage from the CCV not being repaired. I assure you that check engine light was on for weeks if not months before that happened.
 
#231 ·
Ok you lost me - What rocks??????

World English Dictionary
monolith (***712;m***594;n***601;l***618;***952;)
***8212; n
1. a large block of stone or anything that resembles one in appearance, intractability, etc
2. a statue, obelisk, column, etc, cut from one block of stone
3. a large hollow foundation piece sunk as a caisson and having a number of compartments that are filled with concrete when it has reached its correct position
[C19: via French from Greek monolithos made from a single stone]
 
#232 · (Edited)
The wife just got back from LA (215 mile round trip) - as soon as she pulled in the driveway I opened the hood. There was oil past the brass filters in my clear CCV plumbing (about a tablespoon both sides) all the way to the intake. It is down approximately 1/2 qt.. I put a can of Sea Foam in the full tank of fuel before she left. I'll check the piston tops (carbon) tomorrow.
 
#233 ·
so this 7 series i just worked on had no oil residue in the crank case hoses, no oil leaked/seeped out of the valve cover breathers......
i'm having a hard time following the theory ya'll have :D

take 3 guesses where the oil is coming from? its another mosquito fogger we have here :D


It ate so much oil that it skipped time on bank 2 exhaust cam (tensioner collapsed from lack of oil)

@.3mm the intake is at 50mbar (about 1.2 inches)
@ .8mm the intake is at 560mbar (about 19 inches)


where do you think the oil is being pulled out of?

ill give you three guesses :D
 
#234 · (Edited)
so this 7 series i just worked on had no oil residue in the crank case hoses, no oil leaked/seeped out of the valve cover breathers......
i'm having a hard time following the theory ya'll have :D
take 3 guesses where the oil is coming from? its another mosquito fogger we have here :D
It ate so much oil that it skipped time on bank 2 exhaust cam (tensioner collapsed from lack of oil)
@.3mm the intake is at 50mbar (about 1.2 inches)
@ .8mm the intake is at 560mbar (about 19 inches)
where do you think the oil is being pulled out of?
ill give you three guesses :D
Every car is different - you might have bad valve stem seals - Billy, Bob & Fred might have bad valve stem seals with no oil in the intake - All I've ever said is don't assume everyone does - Oil in the intake needs to be resolved first.
** And if your valve stem seals are bad, replacing them is more likely a temporary fix because your guides are probably bad as well **
 
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