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"Tip-In" and "Initial Acceleration" problems fixed

111K views 444 replies 107 participants last post by  chims 
#1 ·
I have several updates to provide everyone after picking up my 2011 535i Dec 2010 build back yesterday from local NC BMW dealer. the first is the well publicized "tip in" or "initial acceleration" issue. i was expeceriing the same as many others where if you are a c complete stop and you go to accelerate the car doesnt respond right away and you naturally apply more gas and then the car jumps ahead of you. but if you were to move to the D/S position, the car was perfect and you didnt experience any lag in acceleration...it was almost like the car was set to start off in 2nd gear vs 1st

well i am happy to report the sw patch applied has completely corrected the issue...now this is a tricky one as your local BMW will not have this sw at their site. My SA luckily had heard of this issue and had to escalate to BMW-NA to obtain the fix. according to SA, BMW-NA are the only ones that can remote into car and apply the fix....

notes from my paperwork show the following: "DME Software Calibration SIB 12 09 11, attempted to program but CID failed to program. Completed battery reset and switched ICOM's, CID failed' Submitted PUMA CASE #xxxx Completed I-RAP programming session"

Software fix took almost two days to apply but happy to report that it has completely fixed the issue and the acceleration has returned!!!!
 
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#353 ·
Maybe it's just learning how to drive this car or maybe the recoding helped, but after a year and a half of driving the car (and about six months of driving after the recoding), it drives fine. The only thing I need to sometimes change is that if I'm in a situation where I really need the car to accelerate quickly I need to shift the lever to the left to engage the Sport mode. If I don't engage the Sport mode there usually is a slight hesitation in throttle response. But I never seem to notice the old jerky nature of the transmission/throttle from a very slow speed to a dead stop.
 
#356 · (Edited)
It's too bad so many drivers are having an unacceptable experience. Clearly, the performance of the engines in the 528 and 535's lack that direct responsiveness you would get in an old fashioned normally aspirated V8 or even a strong V6. But that's the way BMW built them. Clearly, the cars are programmed to coast casually and save fuel despite their horsepower claims and how they perform at WOT from 0-60. Every day driving just seems to be a disappointment. What is a real shame is that - the driving characteristics can seemingly be easily adjusted - and drastically. I have a 2012 535xi that I was very happy with but all in all....it lacked something. It lacked some responsiveness in the throttle when driving modestly, in my words... not enough Torque or the feeling of it. I never really had a lag issue, but now, the car just goes like heck at WOT.

I installed a BMS Stage 1 tune recently and the car is fundamentally different - all of these feelings many posters have would be gone in an instant. I think the car should have come like this from the factory. I have had a number of cars over the years, and have never modified a car in this fashion. I recognize too that for many who lease cars. this may not be a desired course of action. I researched it for a while, looked at BMW's own performance tune (135/335) and came to the conclusion that a tune might be well worth it. There are some nay sayers so it is not for everyone, but I can tell you it's a simple install, no cutting of wires just pure plug and play. I've been running it for a while and the car is fantastic, no hitches at all. More horsepower, more torque and it goes like heck. If you drive it responsibly, no real change in fuel mileage.

So the tune itself is a piggy back tune that intercepts certain signals to/from the ECU and changes things like boost. It is not an extreme tune, but from what I understand slightly more aggressive than BMW's factory tune for the 135/335. It cost about $379. It's a shame really, because most readers and posters will be concerned about warranty and would not take the step and that's the point - BMW could fix this in about an hour. When these cars are 3-4 years old and the warranty is less of a concern, a whole bunch of drivers could spend a mere $379 and get a fantastic responding car. Will it alter engine life dramatically? I don't know for sure. If you maintain your car well, service it regularly, and don't use it on a race track - I doubt it. On a day to day basis, all you notice is more overall responsiveness and the odd time you want to step on it....it goes like you expected it to.

It's just too bad BMW doesn't tune it like this or something like this - drivers clearly want it. Then again, if the 535 was like mine out of the factory, you might not be motived to buy a 550.....
 
#357 ·
It's too bad so many drivers are having an unacceptable experience. Clearly, the performance of the engines in the 528 and 535's lack that direct responsiveness you would get in an old fashioned normally aspirated V8 or even a strong V6. But that's the way BMW built them. Clearly, the cars are programmed to coast casually and save fuel despite their horsepower claims and how they perform at WOT from 0-60. Every day driving just seems to be a disappointment. What is a real shame is that - the driving characteristics can seemingly be easily adjusted - and drastically. I have a 2012 535xi that I was very happy with but all in all....it lacked something. It lacked some responsiveness in the throttle when driving modestly, in my words... not enough Torque or the feeling of it. I never really had a lag issue, but now, the car just goes like heck at WOT.

I installed a BMS Stage 1 tune recently and the car is fundamentally different - all of these feelings many posters have would be gone in an instant. I think the car should have come like this from the factory. I have had a number of cars over the years, and have never modified a car in this fashion. I recognize too that for many who lease cars. this may not be a desired course of action. I researched it for a while, looked at BMW's own performance tune (135/335) and came to the conclusion that a tune might be well worth it. There are some nay sayers so it is not for everyone, but I can tell you it's a simple install, no cutting of wires just pure plug and play. I've been running it for a while and the car is fantastic, no hitches at all. More horsepower, more torque and it goes like heck. If you drive it responsibly, no real change in fuel mileage.

So the tune itself is a piggy back tune that intercepts certain signals to/from the ECU and changes things like boost. It is not an extreme tune, but from what I understand slightly more aggressive than BMW's factory tune for the 135/335. It cost about $379. It's a shame really, because most readers and posters will be concerned about warranty and would not take the step and that's the point - BMW could fix this in about an hour. When these cars are 3-4 years old and the warranty is less of a concern, a whole bunch of drivers could spend a mere $379 and get a fantastic responding car. Will it alter engine life dramatically? I don't know for sure. If you maintain your car well, service it regularly, and don't use it on a race track - I doubt it. On a day to day basis, all you notice is more overall responsiveness and the odd time you want to step on it....it goes like you expected it to.

It's just too bad BMW doesn't tune it like this or something like this - drivers clearly want it. Then again, if the 535 was like mine out of the factory, you might not be motived to buy a 550.....
great reply!! actually i meant to state this earlier. last week i had my 2011 535i in for maitanence. they pulled a brand new 2013 535i off the lot for my loaner and i can say 100%, there is NO issue, lag, hesitation, NOTHING with the new 2013's. I mean it is a totally different driving car and it literally feels like there is 100+ more HP in this car. i know there isnt, but still, the torque, start, pull off the line -- everything, is totally different and MUCH MUCH better. the 2013 is what all F10's should be if you have a 535i, no questions asked....i dont know what BMW did differently but it is major...my 2011 has still kept the latest flash from BMW and the hesitation is gone, but it is still night and day different than the 2013's....

anway, thought you may like to know...
 
#369 ·
It's too bad so many drivers are having an unacceptable experience. Clearly, the performance of the engines in the 528 and 535's lack that direct responsiveness you would get in an old fashioned normally aspirated V8 or even a strong V6. But that's the way BMW built them. Clearly, the cars are programmed to coast casually and save fuel despite their horsepower claims and how they perform at WOT from 0-60. Every day driving just seems to be a disappointment. What is a real shame is that - the driving characteristics can seemingly be easily adjusted - and drastically. I have a 2012 535xi that I was very happy with but all in all....it lacked something. It lacked some responsiveness in the throttle when driving modestly, in my words... not enough Torque or the feeling of it. I never really had a lag issue, but now, the car just goes like heck at WOT.

I installed a BMS Stage 1 tune recently and the car is fundamentally different - all of these feelings many posters have would be gone in an instant. I think the car should have come like this from the factory. I have had a number of cars over the years, and have never modified a car in this fashion. I recognize too that for many who lease cars. this may not be a desired course of action. I researched it for a while, looked at BMW's own performance tune (135/335) and came to the conclusion that a tune might be well worth it. There are some nay sayers so it is not for everyone, but I can tell you it's a simple install, no cutting of wires just pure plug and play. I've been running it for a while and the car is fantastic, no hitches at all. More horsepower, more torque and it goes like heck. If you drive it responsibly, no real change in fuel mileage.

So the tune itself is a piggy back tune that intercepts certain signals to/from the ECU and changes things like boost. It is not an extreme tune, but from what I understand slightly more aggressive than BMW's factory tune for the 135/335. It cost about $379. It's a shame really, because most readers and posters will be concerned about warranty and would not take the step and that's the point - BMW could fix this in about an hour. When these cars are 3-4 years old and the warranty is less of a concern, a whole bunch of drivers could spend a mere $379 and get a fantastic responding car. Will it alter engine life dramatically? I don't know for sure. If you maintain your car well, service it regularly, and don't use it on a race track - I doubt it. On a day to day basis, all you notice is more overall responsiveness and the odd time you want to step on it....it goes like you expected it to.

It's just too bad BMW doesn't tune it like this or something like this - drivers clearly want it. Then again, if the 535 was like mine out of the factory, you might not be motived to buy a 550.....
There are two different issues.

1. Tip in - that is the inability to pull away from a stop without looking like you're driving a manual transmission for the first time.

2. Lack of responsiveness from the throttle while driving. That is, press the throttle and no response from the engine for much longer than expected.

Neither of these have anything to do with the type of engine. They are both programming issues. The first with the transmission, the second with the throttle.

The first issue can be taken care of by shifting into sport. That mostly alleviates the problem, but it is not completely gone. The second can be alleviated by driving in sport or by getting a sprint booster.

As you noted, the engine is very potent when it wants to be. It's not turbo lag or the engine itself, it's goofy programming. If the same programming were applied to the engine in the M3, it too would feel dull and unresponsive.
 
#372 · (Edited)
I think that sums it up. I definitely believe it's a programing issue and these issues can be corrected, although as was noted, in MY2012 I think the Tip-In issue was alleviated in many cars.

The lack of responsiveness (your number 2) is apparant in all the cars in my view, most notably in comfort mode. I call it a flat spot - where you have to really be aggresive with the gas pedal and then you go. I think the problem is most driviers are not conditioned to do that with a car like this and get a very modest response when they expected a more immediate one and that leads into potentially unpleasant situations when changing lanes for instance.

I'll say it again, if all 535 drivers had a chance to drive a car with the JB4 Stage 1 or equivalent tune you would never do without it. BMW should jsut make a tune available to 5 series drivers and everyone would be happy. Some additional horsepower, torque, responsiveness and problem solved. It does not have to be extreme.
 
#359 ·
After driving that car for the weekend, i would def agree...makes me want to trade mine in for a new 2013!! :)
 
#360 · (Edited)
For $379 you could save a lot of depreciation ...LOL. You know, I bet you could even reduce the BMS Stage 1 tune and for most people it would be fine. I think the Stage 1 tune maybe adds 30-40 hp and 60 flbs of torque. But I'm not sure as I have not had it tested. It feels different for sure.
 
#361 ·
does the tune negate or void the warranty? what happens when you take it into dealer for service? will they "erase" the new programing and replace to factory standard?
 
#362 · (Edited)
The tune has its own little black box, connected to the car with an OEM looking cable with 4 connection points - almost invisible to the untrained eye. The black box is hidden inside the cover over the passenger's side part of the front hood. The tune cannot be "erased". Certain signals come from the new little black box you put in there to modify boost etc.. Now as to the warranty, I suppose if something seriously went wrong with the engine, you'd have an issue. If the trim falls off the dash, or the run flats won't hold a balance, I don't know if you could attribute that to a tune. In thinking about it myself, I thought back to every car I owned. I never had an engine that had a structural failure. I've had a steering pump fail, a water pump fail, battery, water got into the computer of my wife's Golf Cabriolet once, but nothing major. I've had my Porsche on a race track, drove the heck out of it, and my wife took it to the grocery store the next day without skipping a beat. I talked to the shop I do my body work with and they are one of Toronto's premier performance tuners: modern corvettes to BMWs. There view is that the modern drivetrains can take a lot. To each his own, but I always wondered, for instance, are the basics, that different between the 535 and the 550 or even the 528 for that matter?
 
#371 ·
I think also by MY2012 they had pretty much figured out the problem. When in MY2012 i am not sure.
 
#373 ·
Saturday, I scheduled an appointment for the low mileage maintenance service at my dealer. Incidentally I received a past due service notice even though my car has only 6800 miles on her.

I can without reservation say that the loaner (2012 535i) I have while my car is being serviced, accelerates completely differently and inherently better than my 2011 7/11 build 535i.

I was one of those who believed that I had no lag issues (because of build date) and that the throttle response in Irene was different but a normal way to add MPGs. I was wrong. …Really wrong. The 2012 model is linear, smooth and lag free during acceleration and cornering. The difference is especially noticeable while doing both at the same time. Although not from a complete stop, as the model I have has auto start/stop. (very unnerving and annoying but that's another thread)

Even in comfort mode the loaner is nearly perfect as it accelerates. I have noticed the gas pedal is tighter (harder to depress) and way more responsive to fluctuation in pedal travel. As soon as I pulled away from the dealership in the loaner, my wife said "this car feels different" I assume she meant the smoother shifting and the car not jerking us forward when lifting off the throttle, but she may have been talking about the substandard seats. Either way this prompted a call my SA when we got home and we had a discussion about it. I haven't heard anything back as of yet today but I will update as or if I learn anything.

What was really weird is that it felt like I had to relearn how to drive the loaner as I guess my body and mind learned what to do while driving my car. I exaggerate not, the difference is stunning.

I urge anyone who has a 2011 535i post 2/11 build or otherwise, and thinks that they don't have acceleration issues or is on the fence about it, please go test drive a newer model year equivalent to judge for yourself. This may be an anomaly with my car only, but given the number of posts and discussions on this topic, I highly doubt it.
 
#379 ·
PeterC4 - we are both discussing problems we do not have, I am just pointing out that we should leave the discussion to those that have had it.
 
#403 ·
Well, I got my baby back after having the "global update" performed and I must say there is big difference in how she runs. The hesitation is gone (responds like the JB3 does) when in non-sport mode and she seems to have more spring in her step. I'm going to run her JB3 free for a few days just to get the "real" feel of her running bareback again. I was depressed last week before the global update as she was a bit sluggish and hesitated at times (especially when compared to having the JB3 on her). It will be interstiing to see/feel the difference when I slip the JB3 back on her. But I must say guys, the update does make her feel better. I know some have complained that right after the update the hesitation, etc. was gone but after time it has reappeared. I won't go too long before I put the JB3 back on so I doubt I'll experience the return of the hesitation (if indeed it were to return).

I've attached the work order for reference to the SIB.
 

Attachments

#404 ·
Any chance you might do a dyno before and after so we can see what it really adds?
 
#406 ·
I probably will go from stage 1 to stage 2 (JB3->JB4) but probably not until the spring.
 
#411 ·
My late build 2011 drives pretty smooth with no tip-in after the update (you can search for my feedback on this thread). I do experience the tip-in issue again when the car is in "DS" :(

I will post my question on the JB4 vs the JB3 on that other thread you guys were on.
 
#415 ·
Problem solved!

I just want to say THANKS for that information. I told my dealer about this information, and they were able to update the software on my car. It drives completely different now. I also had to wait 2 days, as far as I can tell so far it was worth the wait.
 
#417 ·
I have a Jan 2013 build 550i xDrive M Sport w/ DHP and ~1,200 miles on the odometer.

Zero tip in. Operates how you would expect.
 
#419 ·
Get the sport auto trans and you won't have issues.

Get the standard automatic and not guaranteed so much.

I just drove a 2013 with the non-sport auto and it had the issue.
 
#420 ·
Get the sport auto trans and you won't have issues.

Get the standard automatic and not guaranteed so much.

I just drove a 2013 with the non-sport auto and it had the issue.
Yes, I should have added that my car *does* have the sport auto trans (you have to select it apart from selecting M sport), so decaf is likely correct if he test drove a Jan without sport auto trans.
 
#421 · (Edited)
Wow. I'm truly amazed at how accepting folks appear to be about this issue, while others have sued BMW outright. In my 46 years of life - new / used cars alike -I've never had one that hesitated / delayed like the one car I spent the most money on, is way more high end than those before it, and was the one - among all - in which I rightfully had such high expectations. The tip in issue that's apparently plagued BMW's for years now, is a safety issue, period. Yes, BMW drivers get used to it, adjust, switch to sport mode, etc... but that is not why sport mode was created, nor is it a solution for an automatic car. If it was their intent, you can be sure they would not be on top of fixes for the past 3-4+ years or more. For those that may still follow this thread, or come back to it at some point... I just took my 2011 528i (garage kept and barely 25k miles) into the shop because the AC was no longer producing cold air. They found a leak in the evaporator. While there, I asked - as I have in past visits and visit specifically to address the tip in issue - that they revisit the integration software to ensure I have the most current 'fix'. Upon updating my vehicle with F010-14-03-503, my car drove the worst it ever has, on the ride home from the dealership, and the most shocking was that the same hesitation and delay is now occurring in SPORT MODE AS WELL! I called them immediately, enraged and requesting a call from the service manager who waited more than 24 hours to return my call. He only called me back after I left a vm for my service coordinator, indicating the issue seems to be slightly better than it was on my drive home. So, guess what the service manager says when he calls me? >>> The car is learning how I drive, and adjusting accordingly. How clever. Has anyone heard of this? Is this what they say when you a customer says they've noticed slight improvement, or is this really possible? Regardless, I will now devote my time and attention to successful suits filed. Unlike - perhaps - most BMW owners, I don't have $50-$60k to lay down on a car that runs worse than a $30k car. BMW needs to address this with those affected, in a way that says we screwed up and we know it, and we're doing something about besides a software patch! When I asked why they haven't done so, the service manager said because not all BMW owners were affected... not all make and models, etc. Well, I'm certain they know or could easily ascertain through vehicle / purchase records, and that's also part of the point / process of a recall. Simply astounded that BMW purchasers are not requesting, expecting and demanding more of this company. Accountability... standing behind product issues is important. Please contact me if you're aware of any legal approaches surrounding this issue, as that is my next step. My dealer ignored me, then acted like they didn't know what I was talking about, then acted like I was crazy and all the while they knew EXACTLY what i was saying was accurate.
 
#422 ·
Wow! What a rant! Save yourself the trouble of a lawsuit. Sell the car you don't like. Bite the bullet on the depreciation and buy yourself another car. Life's too short for a long and painful lawsuit that is going to cost you more time, money and energy than it is worth.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#423 ·
I've seen the 'tip in' problem in many other cars with auto transmissions. It seems worse in some more than others. I've had the same issue in a ZF Auto in my 1999 Land Rover (problem would temporarily go away when you reset the adaptive drive or used "S" mode - sound familiar?), it was a problem in my wife's Toyota, it's noticeable to some extent in most rentals that I've been in. I've always chalked it up to the adaptive transmissions that have been around for over a decade. Engines with less power made the problem less noticeable. However, it has been one of the many reasons I prefer to row my own gears.
 
#424 ·
Quintus - Wasn't asking for an opinion on what I should do, and am entitled to rant. Consider offering valuable information to a post on a forum, that exists precisely for that reason, verses inflicting 'your' opinion of what another finds upsetting and/or offering unsolicited advice.

ImolaREdm - Thanks for sharing useful information. Had no idea this issue exists in vehicles from other auto makers. Before buying my BMW, I purchased 3 used Land Rovers through the years, and - fortunately - never experienced anything remotely similar. They had small oil leaks and - at times - other minor issues, but actual drive performance was always great (which, thereagain, I would expect from any high end car manufacturer).
 
#425 ·
ImolaREdm - Thanks for sharing useful information. Had no idea this issue exists in vehicles from other auto makers. Before buying my BMW, I purchased 3 used Land Rovers through the years, and - fortunately - never experienced anything remotely similar. They had small oil leaks and - at times - other minor issues, but actual drive performance was always great (which, thereagain, I would expect from any high end car manufacturer).
Same here. I didn't know cars can have such serious throttle delays until I bought my 2011 F10. My wife's X1 and my parents Mercedes (S and C) did does not exhibit anything close to this. I've done the software upgrade and it is somewhat better now. But the other day, a serious delay happened out of the blue again. I tried to blip the throttle to change lanes and the car did not respond. Then I floored the pedal. Nope. No response at all. I was mad and I stomped the pedal quickly two more times. Nothing again. Finally, the 3rd time, the engine responded.

It is unfortunate that this will not be fixed in our early build F10s until some one gets injured with proper documented material that links the accident with the throttle delay.

I guess what Quintus said is true. It might be best just to sell it and get an LCI (I assume they have fixed the issue in the LCIs)
 
#426 ·
WE shall see if there really is a fix to the problem my 11 535xi returns. Left it yesterday with the same throttle response complaint as before. As usual they said they couldn't duplicate it - DUH - what part of intermittent don't they understand?. So after stating that there was a bulletin out on the issue and that they had to program it would I mind? I said that was expected and to go ahead. Meanwhile my loaner is a 15 X3 drive 35i and I can say for certain the response issue is now gone. The normal mode even holds the first couple of shifts a little longer than before but not as long as the sport mode. Will try some of my more strenuous test before having to return this X3 and report if any problems show in those situations.
 
#427 · (Edited)
Douggie - the whole 'suck it up', passive approach as a solution (that Quintus suggested unsolicited), is simply not within my nature and - as i said - PARTICULARLY not after having laid out $60K for this car (part of retirement, and yes i know, NOT one of my finer moments). No, I do not accept just acquiescing and selling the car for someone else to inherit the problem, and am much more about accountability and am even more driven now as I come up on my the end of my warranty and the problems remain. Yes, to your point, there are times when it's improved... its just not consistent and something causes it to revert back to doing what it did when I first owned it.

That said, I am all over my dealership about this and they have offered to come out and pick up my car - for my convenience - or have me drop it off, and have scheduled a Technical Service Engineer to come out and do a full diagnostic on my vehicle. We have that scheduled for next Wednesday, and the service manager tells me they will find anything / everything that may not be functioning properly with the vehicle... and then full disclosure, solutions and/or next steps. We'll see. I'm skeptical, given their outright immediate response to me back in 2011 was COMPLETE denial that they were aware of any issues whatsoever regarding this delay/hesitation/stall issue. Still, they appear to (now) be working with me instead of turning their backs, which is FINALLY a good start. Will keep you and others on this thread posted as to the outcome.
 
#428 ·
Douggie - the whole 'suck it up', passive approach as a solution (that Quintus suggested unsolicited), is simply not within my nature and - as i said - PARTICULARLY not after having laid out $60K for this car (part of retirement, and yes i know, NOT one of my finer moments). No, I do not accept just acquiescing and selling the car for someone else to inherit the problem, and am much more about accountability and am even more driven now as I come up on my the end of my warranty and the problems remain. Yes, to your point, there are times when it's improved... its just not consistent and something causes it to revert back to doing what it did when I first owned it.

That said, I am all over my dealership about this and they have offered to come out and pick up my car - for my convenience - or have me drop it off, and have scheduled a Technical Service Engineer to come out and do a full diagnostic on my vehicle. We have that scheduled for next Wednesday, and the service manager tells me they will find anything / everything that may not be functioning properly with the vehicle... and then full disclosure, solutions and/or next steps. We'll see. I'm skeptical, given their outright immediate response to me back in 2011 was COMPLETE denial that they were aware of any issues whatsoever regarding this delay/hesitation/stall issue. Still, they appear to (now) be working with me instead of turning their backs, which is FINALLY a good start. Will keep you and others on this thread posted as to the outcome.
I admire your determination to have this ironed out. Not many of us have the patience to get to the end of things nowadays.

However, I have a gut feeling that in the end, it won't be fixed. It's because I believe that BMW (not the dealers), will not bother to spend resources to support our early builds. I'm sure that they have already put all of their resources in the current LCI and next generation cars, where the money is. I'm sure the dealers will do their best not to piss you off (for repeat business), but there's only so much they can do.

I hope I'm wrong though. Let us know how it goes. Best of luck.
 
#429 ·
Guys - it's not just "early builds" - the throttle lag happens in all turbo-gasoline cars, F10 and others. I've ordered a Golf R (for the fun factor, and as a DD for my wife) and on the VW forums read about tip-in problems as well.

The most frustrating thing about it is that the more you need sudden acceleration, the more often it happens - i.e. it can take a second or two before the car moves on :(
 
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