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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #26  
Old 08-31-2009, 12:30 PM
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My indicator says I have 23k to go...and my oil was change about 3 months ago! I definitly plan to change it every 6 months though. Turbo engines tend to be hard on oil- particularlyt hot-running engines like the N54. It's a very expensive motor to take the risk on. Oil change are pretty easy in this car, too (except for getting the jack under it- it's very low and I had to pull forward onto some wood blocks for the jack to fit).

You can do an oil change at home for $40-50, and if you change every 7500 instead of 15000, that's about an extra 10 or 11 oil changes over a 200k life. Figure an extra $500 spread over 15 years to ensure the longevity of a $20k motor.
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2009, 07:53 PM
Stinger Stinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post
I pay for one every 7.5K and then take the freebie.
+1 but I do it every 5k miles (just easier for me to keep track)

like others have said my dealer doesn't do a reset on the indicator until it's their turn.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2009, 02:06 PM
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this is not the first time i have heard of this
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2009, 09:43 AM
peripherique peripherique is offline
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Originally Posted by 335ix09 View Post
My 2009 335 that I purchased 01/09 turned 16,500 miles this week (yes it is my dailer driver) and the oil change indicator still says I have 4,500 mies left. I called the dealer and servie advisor said I have to wait until car tells me I need an oil change (even though that would be 21,000 miles) before they'de cover cost under scheduled maintenance. I reminded service advisor that manually states 15k or 1yr for oil change, whichever comes first, but he repeated that they go by what the car says!!!

Luckily having plans to keep the car until at least 100k I did do an oil change myself with BMW filter and oil purchased through internet from another BMW dealership but my dealer doesn't know this. I also had this oil analyzed through blackstone which suggested that I can extend changes to 10K miles not 21,000!!!!!!!!!

Just for the record my secret oil change did not change the number of miles left before the next oil change.

I am just appalled that the dealership could, with a straight face, tell me that a 21K oil change is O.K. for a twin turbo $50K auto. So much for their legendary free maintenance!
Same for me! I have a 2009 328iXDrive purchased in Feb '09 that is my daily driver - 50% highway, 50% stop & go/congestion. Computer is saying can go 21,000 before oil change is due. What's up with that
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ix09 View Post

I am just appalled that the dealership could, with a straight face, tell me that a 21K oil change is O.K. for a twin turbo $50K auto. So much for their legendary free maintenance!

I wonder why they would - they get paid for it. I would call BMW-NA. Your maintenance plan dictates 15,000 miles or 1 year.

Why did you wait until 16,500? I would not have let that slide.
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  #31  
Old 09-02-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Market of fear is alive - and you prove it. Stop the madness.

You are deluding yourself if you think that you know better than BMW, Mercedes and Porsche.

They have been specifying very long oil changes for 15 years and there was no consequence REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU SUGGEST.
Your deluding yourself if you think BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche care about your car after the maintenance/warranty period is up. They want your car to break 1 mile after those plans expire - then you can pay them to fix it....or buy a new one.

BTW - i changed my oil at 7,500 miles and it was black...i mean BLACK. I would not want to see it at 15,000 miles. Back in my 1996 maxima (which I had until I got this car in 2009) I would change my oil every 2500 miles...it woudl come out dark brown...not black. The synthetic oil goes in brown, it comes otu black. That means it got impurities in it.
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2009, 01:56 PM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Any evidence or just your guess?

(Pssst. pssst....they have been doing this for almost 15 yrs! )
The question is will you or anyone buy a BMW that has 100k+ miles and just 5 oil changes ?
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  #33  
Old 09-02-2009, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Your deluding yourself if you think BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche care about your car after the maintenance/warranty period is up. T

BS.

Your deluding yourself if you think BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche, all experts with durable cars, don't care about their reputation. They would have never made that move if it wasn't established out of doubt statistically and empirically that engines are not harmed by long intervals.


Quote:
The question is will you or anyone buy a BMW that has 100k+ miles and just 5 oil changes ?
Of course? Why not? Stop assuming that it is bad,.,, it isn't.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:09 AM
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Although I would never claim everything posted in the 2 threads below to be 100% accurate, there's plenty of evidence to prove 15k mile OCI's are far to long for the 54. There's also the fact that members here have posted the results of their Blackstone analysis and recommendations here stating the limit of the BMW 5-30 oil is about 7-8000 miles.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...95#Post1574495

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...95#Post1200595
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
BS.

Your deluding yourself if you think BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche, all experts with durable cars, don't care about their reputation. They would have never made that move if it wasn't established out of doubt statistically and empirically that engines are not harmed by long intervals.
FUD. Just like BMW boasts that you need premium, but if you read their documentation carefully and actually drill down on them they will admit "recommended" and that it will cause no actual harm to use less then premium.
Besides - I never said the engineers didn't know what they were talking about...but an engineer knowing something and a copy writer breaking out some marketing hype are not always jiving. When you show me a true independent study (as in one not linked to BMW in anyway other then they were testing a BMW car) I will start to believe it. Until then I will go based on the words of many auto-technicians who actually have to work on these cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Of course? Why not? Stop assuming that it is bad,.,, it isn't.
When you do multi-quoting please include the persons name in the quote (like i have yours). That way it doesn't get confusing who the comment was for.
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I agree with furby
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:35 AM
davidc1 davidc1 is offline
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Here's what I do. Once a year or when the computer tells me to. Everytime my car was reset, it started with "22000 miles before service." Over time, that drops real fast. In fact, with a lot of short trips and cold starts, I don't remember going past 12k before the car told me to bring it in for service.
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
FUD. Just like BMW boasts that you need premium, but if you read their documentation carefully and actually drill down on them they will admit "recommended" and that it will cause no actual harm to use less then premium.
Besides - I never said the engineers didn't know what they were talking about...but an engineer knowing something and a copy writer breaking out some marketing hype are not always jiving. When you show me a true independent study (as in one not linked to BMW in anyway other then they were testing a BMW car) I will start to believe it. Until then I will go based on the words of many auto-technicians who actually have to work on these cars.
Hmmm... so how do you think that service indicator works? Some engineer programmed it to work just as it does. And why did they program it that way? Because some other engineer studied the characteristics and operation of the engine/oil system and determined that was an optimal way to run it. Seems to me you have a study right there, albeit perhaps not entirely independent. You also have engineers talking directly to you, albeit through your service indicator, and you still refuse to listen to them.

We all know and accept that different driving conditions should result in different service intervals. Yet with a computer continously monitoring your actual driving conditions and adjusting the interval for you using parameters and models developed by BMW engineering, we still want to use old school shade tree wisdom to second guess things.

I have to admit to being shocked at the oil change mileage interval on my "new to me" 330i. But factoring in the potential of synthetic oil and general conservative corporate engineering (e.g. your comment about "requiring" premium) going into the service interval programming... perhaps they are closer to truth than we used to think. With the degree of computer control in these cars isn't it possible a longer service interval IS warranted?
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2009, 01:37 PM
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just a little fyi - a description of how the oil condition/level sensor works.

long version, then short version
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW Oil Level Sensor v2.pdf (82.7 KB, 79 views)
File Type: pdf BMW Oil Level Sensor.pdf (60.9 KB, 155 views)
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  #39  
Old 09-17-2009, 01:42 PM
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everyone realizes that BMWs and Porsches and such are sold all over the world right- places where free maintenance is NOT included? You really think these premium car makers would just artifically inflate all their oili change intervals and sacrifice their reputation because maintenance is covered for the first 4 years in the USA?
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  #40  
Old 09-17-2009, 01:45 PM
335i Driver 335i Driver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrooom3440 View Post
Hmmm... so how do you think that service indicator works? Some engineer programmed it to work just as it does. And why did they program it that way? Because some other engineer studied the characteristics and operation of the engine/oil system and determined that was an optimal way to run it. Seems to me you have a study right there, albeit perhaps not entirely independent. You also have engineers talking directly to you, albeit through your service indicator, and you still refuse to listen to them.

We all know and accept that different driving conditions should result in different service intervals. Yet with a computer continously monitoring your actual driving conditions and adjusting the interval for you using parameters and models developed by BMW engineering, we still want to use old school shade tree wisdom to second guess things.

I have to admit to being shocked at the oil change mileage interval on my "new to me" 330i. But factoring in the potential of synthetic oil and general conservative corporate engineering (e.g. your comment about "requiring" premium) going into the service interval programming... perhaps they are closer to truth than we used to think. With the degree of computer control in these cars isn't it possible a longer service interval IS warranted?

Have you seen the results of the independent tests posted by owners here and at the links I posted above? No I do't have the desire nor do I care to go back and look them up, but some of them show the TBN to be almost 0 and the oil completely sheared in as few as 2000 miles. Those are the results of independent tests from state of the art laboratories. To equate these tests done by state of the art laboratories to old school shade tree wisdom I find amusing, if not ignorant.

When BMW shows me an independent test of the BMW oil at 15k miles with the TBN greater than 2 and the shear loss of less than 10% on the N54 engine I might accept a 15k interval. However, I seriously doubt I'll ever see one.
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  #41  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
just a little fyi - a description of how the oil condition/level sensor works.
OK, there are two conductivity sensors in the oil pan. A small one measures the base conductivity of the oil then (1) uses that value as a calibration point for the level sensor and (2) uses the value as an oil condition sensor.

Once the lower sensor knows the conductivity of the oil, the upper sensor can determine the oil level within it by comparing its own measured conductivity to the known value from the lower sensor, and calculating what oil level is needed to provide the total conductivity shown.

Personal opinion on this - I'm fine with using it for level, but I'm unimpressed with using oil conductivity as a proxy for determining when to do an oil change. I've seen too many conductivity sensors go south in industrial applications in far less harsh conditions. I'll stick with my 7.5k changes. Doesn't cost too much, and makes me sleep easier.


FWIW,
George
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  #42  
Old 09-18-2009, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrooom3440 View Post
Hmmm... so how do you think that service indicator works? Some engineer programmed it to work just as it does. And why did they program it that way? Because some other engineer studied the characteristics and operation of the engine/oil system and determined that was an optimal way to run it. Seems to me you have a study right there, albeit perhaps not entirely independent. You also have engineers talking directly to you, albeit through your service indicator, and you still refuse to listen to them.
Engineer programs what they think is right
Marketing person wants it programmed different
Marketing person convinces corporate about his/her perspective
Engineer programs what marketing person thinks is right


BTW - I just did an oil change on my car. It said 8000 until my service oil change before I did mine...a week later and it still says 8000 until my next oil change. If the car is so smart why didn't it automatically reset itself? Because it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrooom3440 View Post
We all know and accept that different driving conditions should result in different service intervals. Yet with a computer continously monitoring your actual driving conditions and adjusting the interval for you using parameters and models developed by BMW engineering, we still want to use old school shade tree wisdom to second guess things.
That is the extent of it - but it doesn't analyze the oil. Engineer in a test lab is in a test lab. Simulating real world conditions is very difficult, and definitely not done for daily driving of say 4-8 years on a car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vrooom3440 View Post
I have to admit to being shocked at the oil change mileage interval on my "new to me" 330i. But factoring in the potential of synthetic oil and general conservative corporate engineering (e.g. your comment about "requiring" premium) going into the service interval programming... perhaps they are closer to truth than we used to think. With the degree of computer control in these cars isn't it possible a longer service interval IS warranted?
A longer service interval sure, as long as they state no. I don't think we need oil changes every 3000 miles, but 15,000 is a TON of miles to put. Again if yuo plan on driving your car for 3-4 years - no problem. Hell you cuold probably managed to drive it 3-4 years without a SINGLE oil change....I then feel bad for the next guy who is getting their engine replaced.
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I agree with furby
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Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2009, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by markinva View Post
everyone realizes that BMWs and Porsches and such are sold all over the world right- places where free maintenance is NOT included? You really think these premium car makers would just artifically inflate all their oili change intervals and sacrifice their reputation because maintenance is covered for the first 4 years in the USA?
The car makers care about the initial sale/lease, and the secondary sale at 3-4 years. After that they will claim that the car has reached end of life. Car companies want you to buy a car every 3-4 years, not every 10-15 years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
I agree with furby
Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #44  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:24 AM
markinva markinva is offline
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
The car makers care about the initial sale/lease, and the secondary sale at 3-4 years. After that they will claim that the car has reached end of life. Car companies want you to buy a car every 3-4 years, not every 10-15 years.
right, car makers don't care if their cars die at 4 years... because after all customer loyalty is not important in the car industry, and if someone's bmw dies in 4-5 years, they will just go buy another BMW. mmhmm.
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  #45  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:37 AM
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right, car makers don't care if their cars die at 4 years... because after all customer loyalty is not important in the car industry, and if someone's bmw dies in 4-5 years, they will just go buy another BMW. mmhmm.
Quite honestly, if they really did care that much they would have have resolved the HPFP issue by now and issues like this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=395377
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  #46  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:25 AM
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right, car makers don't care if their cars die at 4 years... because after all customer loyalty is not important in the car industry, and if someone's bmw dies in 4-5 years, they will just go buy another BMW. mmhmm.
Actually that's just about right but extend that to 6 years (when CPO typically runs out). Also, as the poster below yours (above mine) said - the HPFP issue. This is a blatant defect but they will only warranty it for 10 years. Mind you they don't fix the root cause of the HPFP issue just the symptom - hence some people have gone through multiple HPFPs. So if your car is one of those in the HPFP defect line it is gauranteed that at some point someone will have to replace it without warranty even though it is a factory defect. mmhmm
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I agree with furby
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Hahahaha, I like you furb, you like to live dangerously.
Quote:
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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  #47  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:30 AM
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You will rue this day, RUE THIS DAY
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  #48  
Old 09-18-2009, 12:20 PM
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the car makers care about the initial sale/lease, and the secondary sale at 3-4 years. After that they will claim that the car has reached end of life. Car companies want you to buy a car every 3-4 years, not every 10-15 years.
+1
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  #49  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:56 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by 335i Driver View Post
Have you seen the results of the independent tests posted by owners here and at the links I posted above? No I do't have the desire nor do I care to go back and look them up, but some of them show the TBN to be almost 0 and the oil completely sheared in as few as 2000 miles. Those are the results of independent tests from state of the art laboratories. To equate these tests done by state of the art laboratories to old school shade tree wisdom I find amusing, if not ignorant.

When BMW shows me an independent test of the BMW oil at 15k miles with the TBN greater than 2 and the shear loss of less than 10% on the N54 engine I might accept a 15k interval. However, I seriously doubt I'll ever see one.
+1. For some reason (wishful thinking?), some people seem to take BMW's word as gospel.
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  #50  
Old 09-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 255
Mein Auto: 2011 328i xdrive
I have a vision of growing old driving my current car, maybe wearing a goofy cap once I'm really over the hill. Therefore I'm doing one (secret)oil change in between the recommended interval. I figure I want twice the life out of the car, so I'll change oil twice as often. Not a scientific approach, but it reassures me.
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