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2009 X5 35D Diesel Exhaust Urea Reservoir Problem

75K views 245 replies 69 participants last post by  da_menace 
#1 ·
Seems to be a problem with the Urea Storage/Injection system. At 1700 mi, my X5 displays a service warning that the "Exhaust Fluid is Low"; starting the mileage run down to prevent the vehicle from starting if the problem is not corrected. I checked for a leak & found no evidence of leakage whatsoever. This certainly should not be happening at 1700 mi. Annoying to say the least; undermining my confidence in the vehicle. Has anyone else experienced this situation?

Joe
 
#53 ·
The X5 is at the dealer & so far they tell me no sign of a kink or a leak. Now there saying that they probably didn't fill the passive tank completely the last time I brought it in. I'll be picking it up tomorrow, so we'll see what they finally conclude. The whole affair is getting fishy.

My X5 is the lap of luxury & performance compared to this 328 loaner. Looking forward to driving my X5 again.

I'll provide an update tomorrow.
 
#56 ·
Joe what is the weather like where you live? I'm trying to understand why they don't see the hard crusted dried UREA all over the bottom of your car like they did mine. (thats why I keep telling you to clean the bottom of your car really well!) Actually it was even all over the right rear tire on the inside. Also it was before the rainy season here so there was nothing to wash it off so they saw everything.

Do they just pull it into the service drive and top it off with fluid and send you on your way? Have YOU been under your car your self?

It sounds like it takes 1700 miles to use up the active tank. If your X5 uses up the active tank and the passive is still full then you have a different problem then I did. but if both are empty all of the evedence is on the bottom just like mine.
 
#57 · (Edited)
The story continues.

BMWNA responded to my emails to them about this problem by contacting the dealer while my vehicle was in for service. They advised them on troubleshooting and to look closely for the crusted mess Gabe is talking about. They found no kinked hoses, no crusted mess, no sign of a leak, no problem whatsoever except that the tanks were low. BMWNA called me yesterday & reported the work they did with the dealer. This level of attention I'm pleased with.

The dealer did say that at my first stop (1700 MI) they filled the active tank & used what was left of a relatively small qty. (? 1 gal ?) by pouring it into the passive tank. So they were not sure that they really filled the passive tank. This I'm not impressed with. So this time they made sure they completely topped everything off. BMWNA reports that it seems most likely that the vehicle left the factory without both tanks filled to capacity and that the dealer didn't completely fill on the last go around. Again, I'm impressed that BMWNA took this matter seriously and worked with the dealer as well as calling me to advise of the progress.

Prior to bringing the vehicle in, I did crawl under the vehicle on several occasions to look for the crusted mess that Gabe reports. I found no crust whatsoever. Everything was pretty much factory fresh. BMWNA states that that would be a sure indicator of a leak. Neither the dealer nor I could find any signs of this. The dealer did find some crust near the filler neck of the active tank which was the result of spilling a little fluid on the last fill up.

So bottom line is that the mystery will continue for a little bit while I prove or disprove the theory that the tanks were never filled properly.:dunno:
 
#58 ·
The story continues.

BMWNA responded to my emails to them about this problem by contacting the dealer while my vehicle was in for service. They advised them on troubleshooting and to look closely for the crusted mess Gabe is talking about. They found no kinked hoses, no crusted mess, no sign of a leak, no problem whatsoever except that the tanks were low. BMWNA called me yesterday & reported the work they did with the dealer. This level of attention I'm pleased with.

The dealer did say that at my first stop (1700 MI) they filled the active tank & used what was left of a relatively small qty. (? 1 gal ?) buy pouring it into the passive tank. So they were not sure that they really filled the passive tank. This I'm not impressed with. So this time they made sure they completely topped everything off. BMWNA reports that it seems most likely that the vehicle left the factory without both tanks filled to capacity and that the dealer didn't completely fill on the last go around. Again, I'm impressed that BMWNA took this matter seriously and worked with the dealer as well as calling me to advise of the progress.

Prior to bringing the vehicle in, I did crawl under the vehicle on several occasions to look for the crusted mess that Gabe reports. I found no crust whatsoever. Everything was pretty much factory fresh. BMWNA states that that would be a sure indicator of a leak. Neither the dealer nor I could find any signs of this. The dealer did find some crust near the filler neck of the active tank which was the result of spilling a little fluid on the last fill up.

So bottom line is that the mystery will continue for a little bit while I prove or disprove the theory that the tanks were never filled properly.:dunno:
Good luck and keep us posted. Glad you have your car back. No problems with mine so far...

Craig
 
#60 ·
Holding up thus far on my end. It really is a nice vehicle to drive. It moves effortlessly with the diesel power which is complimented with great handling. A nice combination.

I'll let you folks know when my urea experiment is over.

Joe
 
#62 ·
Craig its a great, great Vehicle, If you don't have a problem at 1,700 miles then you won't have any problems.

Joe if you have this problem again then I honestly think it's either the transfer pumpis not working, or for some reason your X5 is using more Urea then expected.

Also I honestly don't think this Urea system will last 10K miles per fill up of both tanks. Its great! please don't get me wrong I really liked it but, this first genertion is on the fence.
 
#63 ·
Craig its a great, great Vehicle, If you don't have a problem at 1,700 miles then you won't have any problems.

Joe if you have this problem again then I honestly think it's either the transfer pumpis not working, or for some reason your X5 is using more Urea then expected.

Also I honestly don't think this Urea system will last 10K miles per fill up of both tanks. Its great! please don't get me wrong I really liked it but, this first genertion is on the fence.
Gabe, almost at 1700 miles without problems. I've noticed it's running better since about 1500 miles. More power and running smoother.

fingers crossed...

Craig
 
#64 ·
I have 2,300 miles and have no problems. VERY satisfied with my purchase and everyone that discovers it is a diesel is surprised. I agree that the motor is just now coming into its own; smoother, seemingly more powerful but I babied it the 1st 2,000 miles. My only gripe would be that it tends to lurch when taking off from a rolling start...I'm used to it now and modulate the effects with different gas pedal action. Regards to all.
 
#66 ·
Hazbeen,

Seems a lot of folks notice the lurch, myself included. I think it is caused by the way the 2nd to first downshift is programmed, rather than turbo lag. I notice that unless I come to a complete stop, the transmission does not downshift into 1st. So when coming to a barely perceptable roll at a stop sign, upon moderate accelleration, the trans lags a bit, than downshifts to 1st & slams you with all the torque generated by the diesel. You can test this theory like I did by trying the same maneuver in manual mode. You will find that when you manually shift into 1st, than acellerate, you do not get slammed into the backseat.

BMW should correct this troublesome spot in the trans shift sequence. I will tell my dealer about it when I go in for my next service.

BTW, so far so good on the urea.

Joe
 
#68 ·
Ok so here is the good news, I (MIGHT) have the hookup on a X5d :) I was just told about an owner that wants to turn her nex X5d in and purchase an older X5 i was told she perfers the older body style. TRUST ME I will look under the car on a lift to make sure it wasn't crashed.
 
#73 ·
It's been only 1000 miles since I was at the dealer for a diesel exhaust fulid fill. The first fill was at 12k the second was at 18k now have 19k and just got the warning message again. I'll call the dealer on Monday to see if they can find out what's up. I will keep everyone posted. From what I've been reading on the forums there is a problem with false messages. :dunno:
 
#75 · (Edited)
A warning light comes on about 1000 miles before the car won't run and one can always keep an extra quart in the spare compartment....

Anyone wigged out can wait for the inevitable defeat chip, upload, fuse modification that will show BMW a code that they will have to prove caused some defect to void their warranty...

Al Gore will come to your home, tracked down via BMW Assist and spank you like the naughty boy that you really are...:rofl::rofl:
 
#78 ·
At 2100 miles, as did several of us that posted similar mileages, your dealer likely did not fill up the main reservoir with DEF. If you take it back to the selling dealer, you should indeed point out to them that there are TWO fill necks that they need to put DEF in......the entire system should be approx. 6.5 gallons of DEF. The should not charge you for this.......even though the manual states that DEF isn't covered for 'top off' between oil fills....there is no way that 6.5 gallons would be used during 2100 miles. There are several threads on this between Xoutpost and Bimmerfest.
 
#79 ·
I live in NY where it has been unusually cold. My wife was driving our X5 35D on Friday and got the warning that it would not start in 1000 miles because of the diesel exhaust fluid. Next day I drove it around in 40 degree weather while accessing the on board diagnostic menu in iDrive and the warning resolved on its own.
 
#80 ·
Well, I just got back from the dealer. They had to put in 2.5 gallons of fluid in. Which I guess is about the capacity of the heated tank. They didn't find any leaks. The service manager said the fluid in the other tank was congealed because of the cold weather so it didn't transfer. Since I bought this car on 11/28 the temperature has not been above freezing so this makes me a little concerned about winter driving with this car even though it is parked in a garage. I only have 2100 miles on it. I got a little pissed when they wanted to charge me $60 for the fluid. He tried to tell me it is only free at service intervals so I had to get the owners manual out and showed him (page 226) that exhaust fluid replacement is part of the service plan. I have a feeling either the tanks weren't filled at delivery or something else is wrong. Does anyone know if the factory fills the tanks or is the dealer responsible for that at delivery? I don't have much confidence in this dealer after speaking with them.
 
#84 ·
I am constantly amazed how BMW NA shoots itself in the foot when it comes to customer satisfaction. Why go to the bother of excluding between oil change DEF additions? It should not be a very common occurrence, unless there is something wrong with the system (in which case the warranty would apply anyway). It seems they are damaging their image and customer satisfaction for a very small cost savings. Since they flush and refill the system at the oil change interval, how hard would it be for them to just issue an SIB which tells the service people to check the miles until service, do a simple computation, and just add enough DEF to bring it to the next oil change, if it runs short between changes?
 
#85 · (Edited)
I am constantly amazed how BMW NA shoots itself in the foot when it comes to customer satisfaction. Why go to the bother of excluding between oil change DEF additions? It should not be a very common occurrence, unless there is something wrong with the system (in which case the warranty would apply anyway). It seems they are damaging their image and customer satisfaction for a very small cost savings. Since they flush and refill the system at the oil change interval, how hard would it be for them to just issue an SIB which tells the service people to check the miles until service, do a simple computation, and just add enough DEF to bring it to the next oil change, if it runs short between changes?
I agree! This issue could blunt the acceptance of the BMW Diesels for some time to come. All it has to do is become "common knowledge" that DEF is a hassle and BMW charges diesel owners high prices for topping it up between oil changes. Undoing that kind of bad PR could, and probably will, cost BMW far more than just taking care of it for the customer.

BTW the calculation you mentioned is simple IF you have some idea of the DEF usage rate ranges for any particular model. IF BMW has this info (and they should), they certainly don't seem to be sharing it with the BMW dealers and techs. Otherwise, BMW techs would know almost immediately that the low mileage between DEF top up issues we've read about on this and other X5 forums indicate:
1 - The DEF system on that 35d is not working properly: leaking, wasting DEF, etc..
or
2 - Both tanks weren't and/or aren't getting filled properly.
or
BOTH 1&2. :tsk:

FWIW I'd bet the DEF usage rate for a 35d is somewhere in the range of 1,800-2,000 miles per gal of DEF. At this rate most 35d owner's would not need to top up the DEF between oil changes (11-13,000mi).

Funf Dreisig
 
#86 ·
Thanks Funf for the info.... I have learned a ton from this website. I wish I discovered it before I bought but oh well... The service manager was a little flustered when I said I refused to pay for anything, he then went on to tell me that they had a '09 X5 diesel as a service car last winter and they had to refill the exhaust fluid tank all the time. I then told him he wasn't making me feel any better for buying this car. :tsk: Other than that I love the car, the diesel engine is a beast.
 
#89 · (Edited)
Thanks Funf for the info.... I have learned a ton from this website. I wish I discovered it before I bought but oh well... The service manager was a little flustered when I said I refused to pay for anything, he then went on to tell me that they had a '09 X5 diesel as a service car last winter and they had to refill the exhaust fluid tank all the time. I then told him he wasn't making me feel any better for buying this car. :tsk: Other than that I love the car, the diesel engine is a beast.
You're welcome.

BTW your dealer's techs obviously know less about the 35d DEF system than anyone reading this thread. Anyone who has to "refill the exhaust fluid tank all the time" has a dysfunctional DEF system or dealer. :yikes: In most cases, I'd bet on the later :)

Funf Dreisig
 
#92 ·
On a 2010 35d w/ only 1690 miles and a correctly working DEF system, there are only two conditions when this should happen...
1 - The larger 'passive' tank was empty (e.g. it was never filled).
2 - The larger 'passive' tank was frozen.

So unless you were in sub freezing weather (i.e. <-11c for awhile) when the warning came on, 'All did [NOT] come up negative'. You and your dealer just don't know it yet :(

Funf Dreisig
 
#96 ·
Urea Warning

My warning light (2010 X5 Diesel) came on at 2400 miles. The dealer said the res. was down by 12 liters and that they could find no indication of leakage. He concluded they had not filled it fully at the distribution center. They also had another customer a fews ago; same model, same urea deficiency and same diagnosis.
I expect to learn over the next few weeks whether I have a leak or not.
By the way, when the mechanic spills urea all over the engine compartment, as mine did, you feel like you're driving an outhouse for a few days until the odor burns off. Really pleasant.
Will keep you posted.
 
#97 ·
Do we know where BMW is supposed to fill the DEF? Factory, final VPC??? There has got to be documentation of this activity at some place....
 
#98 ·
Mine was filled at the factory. I asked that when I took delivery a year ago. Now, BMW doesn't want to pay for the flush and fill. I thought my vehicle came with free maintenance for 4 years. BTW, I'm not going to pay 200.00 the dealership is asking. I'm going over there tomorrow with the press release Penguin gave me the link .

There is no savings to owning a diesel with all these extra problems and costs. If I would have known then what I know now, I wouldn't have purchased a diesel BMW.

Craig
 
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