what are your thoughts on this match-up? I'm convinced I'm going to buy a Diesel car, now it's a matter of deciding between the 2. I never thought I'd see these 2 cars priced so closely, but hey, thanks Porsche!
Mike, nice review of the Cayenne in AK! I was surprised in your comparison graph you neglected the most obvious competitor the T-egg! To me that would have been the most obvious car since many (not me) consider the Cayenne to be just a tarted up T-egg. Since for MY '13 all the VA(P)G "big" diesels will get the 240 hp stage II engine that should be interesting to see how the two most closely related perform together. Would also like to see how the new Q5 TDI fits into that matrix as well.:angel: Thanks for getting the review out there, you are the second one to hit the AK junket so far that I have seen.:thumbup:
The Touareg will still be heavier than the Porsche... I thought about including it, but then left it out as it really does nothing better than the others. Pricing is its only real advantage.
It is kind of like how performance stickers add HP to any car. Just in this case the badge on your hood/grill is what determines how reliable the engine will be. Either that or VW and Audi just do not sell vehicles in the two states with crummy fuel
The piston rings do not provide a 100% seal. There is always a minimal exchange between combustion and lubrication side as the cylinder moves up and down. I.e fuel and combustion residue will overtime dilute the oil and some oil will be burnt off hence the need to re-fill oil and perform oil changes. Dirty fuel would foul the oil quicker.
There is a 4.2ltr diesel V8 Porsche Cayenne supposed to be coming. Its a pitty you don't get the X5m 50d, its got 381hp and 746nm torque. The V8 diesel Porsche is supposed to have 100nm more? don't think BMW will standby and let it get beat.
I don't think it is about the fuel having contaminants but instead the quality of the fuel itself. I'd imagine it also has to do with how just some States have higher biodiesel requirements than others.
A fuel filter is a mechanical cleaning. Contaminations can be anything as other liquids etc that a filter will not be able to separate. An oil filter is not a refinery.
No doubt there is a profit factor in this. Service is a big profit booster for Porsche dealers. Think about it, diesel owners are often high mileage drivers. Say an average of 20k miles a year. It gives $1200 a year or $12000 in 10 years and a whopping $24000 for the normal lifetime of a vehicle, just in oil services. Porsche could spec. different intervals for the locations with poor fuel quality, now you know why they don't.
I drive 40-45k miles per year. That is across two primary vehicles, I do not track miles on the other ones, but the bulk of the miles driven really are on one vehicle. Outside the cost issue of something that would need service every 5k miles I'd also have issues with the time factor. I guess the upside is I'd be on a first name basis with everyone at the dealership.
I do not blame them one bit but for what ever reason the diesel Cayenne I do not find highly desirable which leaves me closely comparing it to other options. Not saying the Cayenne lacks desire to me, it just is not one of the typical Porsche experiences for me where I drive it and am blown away at what they have done. I actually keep thinking back to the salesmens comments after I drove it and I really think he sold me out of it with his speech about how "getting into a Porsche is getting into a dream" and used that as justification as to why they don't go down on asking prices. That same speech with a 911 definitely would have worked well on helping sell me on the cost because the car already would have sold me on wanting it.
Owners of the Cayenne in California, who never put in crappy fuel, can go with extended oil change intervals (as can X5 35d owners who run good fuel ***8212; no worries).
Put yourself in Porsche's position, having to warranty ALL engines in all 50 states. What would you do? Take a risk, and chance a headline "Porsche Cayenne Diesel has excessive engine failures" or take the safe route with 5,000 mile intervals?
Owners of the Cayenne in California, who never put in crappy fuel, can go with extended oil change intervals (as can X5 35d owners who run good fuel - no worries).
Put yourself in Porsche's position, having to warranty ALL engines in all 50 states. What would you do? Take a risk, and chance a headline "Porsche Cayenne Diesel has excessive engine failures" or take the safe route with 5,000 mile intervals?
Arguably, a new Boxster in base form is a "bargain" at $50,000. I hazard a guess the "stripped" model would be hard to find and even harder to justify at that price. Perhaps that is their way of throwing a bone to us mere mortals along with the "base" Cayenne.
When Porsche is now firmly in bed with VW, Audi and all other V.A.G brands I think we can forget budget Porsches. It would make little sense for V.A.G to position a Porsche at the same level as for example a VW. It's a high-end brand that generates high profit margins and it seems that they sell to capacity. Your best hope for a simple cheap Miata like Porsche is that V.A.G decides to build a low-end Cayman with something like the groups 2.0T engine branded as a VW. It could happen I guess.
I know you don't get the X5M 50d in the US but the calipers on it are actually physically larger than the calipers on the X5M V8. Have had mine painted and ceramic pads installed. Have no problem in it stopping but can easily understand the standard X5 50i and 35d diesels having a problem with the standard 1 pot on 365mm rotors being tracked.
The only downfall with the 50d is only 20" rims will fit due to the large calipers?
Those look like single-piston sliding calipers to me. The M5 has six-piston monobloc calipers, meaning they are much more powerful. However, the vehicle's weight generates simply too much heat for the braking system to absorb.
I honestly have no idea. They are "challenged" to fill orders in the States right now, so I would imagine deliveries to Australia would be delayed for a year or more (plus, they lack a dealer network).
Mike, OK I understand that at 500 lbs heavier the T-egg didn't make the cut for your comparo matrix. Would still be interesting so see how the two compare especially with the new series engine in both. Perhaps even more interesting would be to see how the new diesel Q5 with that same engine compares to them all!:angel:
In all honesty, I deliberately left the Touareg out. Remember, these are people looking for a Porsche Cayenne Diesel. I do believe they would cross-shop an Audi, BMW and a Mercedes-Benz... but I was hesitant to include the Volkswagen in that group. Again, these are people shopping at a Porsche dealership (meaning cost ***8212; the VW's strength ***8212; isn't that big of an issue).
Valid point!:thumbup: However, a stripper Cayenne diesel is not all that much more than a fully equipped T-egg oiler. My point was only that many (again, not me) consider the Cayenne to be nothing more than a rebadged T-egg. I felt that a comparo of the two together would put paid to that specious argument - or maybe not!:angel:
Lets pretend Mike did write that exact story... how many more Porsches do you think would end up in his driveway
Even if he did the comparison, the only people that would be happy enough with the T-Egg would be those more focused on value. Discerning people willing to part with their money would be able to tell enough of a difference to shell out the cash.
Not everyone values the little things as much as those with extra income, but that's the greatness of having choices.
I didn't say you pulled punches on Porsche I was inferring that you weren't writing articles trying to run down the value of a badge.
Two very different concepts. I've read quite a few of your reviews and find them to be good, unbiased, and thoughtful. That us what keeps your driveway full.
Please don't think I meant anything about kissing ass.
My bad. Sorry I jumped on you. I get accused all the time of sleeping with the automakers (some are quite attractive, so I don't always argue). Mostly, by people who want my job.
Being honest, and credible, is very important. Oh, this just arrived a few minutes ago (see below). MSRP of $72,000!
For those keeping score. I had the 2012 Audi Q7 TDI in my driveway for a week (they just took it away). I put about 300 miles on it, of which 120 miles was pure highway travel to/from the airport. My average economy was 18.2 MPG (for comparison, my X5 35d would average about 22 mpg over the same route).
Not surprised. It's significantly heavier than the others. The MPG leaders in this category are the new ML and Cayenne now. Before it was the Touareg or X5.
I do not believe the economy difference results entirely from the weight difference. BMW diesel is simply better than Audi diesel. It has better economy despite BMW is bi-turbo vs Audi single-turbo.
The drive back to back of the Cayenne and the T-egg would almost certainly have been done with the current Porsche (VAG) engine -- and the T-egg with the previous generation V6 (VAG) engine. The comparo to me is with the new series engine in both cars.
Mike, am sure you are pure -- however unfortunately there are those in the "buff book biz" who are not -- and we all know (or at least strongly suspect) who they might be. However it is not hard to understand wanting your job! Hopefully someone will do a comparo of the entire diesel offering line at some point in the future that will include the four major players as well as the Jeep GC.:thumbup:
That would be a good comparo, and now that we have more players in the segment I am sure it will be done.
For the record, I've participated/written three comparos... and they are a royal PITA.
- Mike
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