HELP!!! - Working on 2018 X5 xDrive35i 36/10k Lease Deal - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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  #1  
Old 11-14-2017, 08:34 AM
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HELP!!! - Working on 2018 X5 xDrive35i 36/10k Lease Deal

Dealer requested i don't post such information.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2017, 08:52 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Deleted post here because OP said dealer requested he not post the specific info he had in the first post, and I had quoted it. Removing to honor the OPs desire to not have it there.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2017, 10:32 AM
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Yes i was looking for confirmation on the invoice calculation (pricing).

I will go ahead and shop this around to dealership and post what offers/deals i receive.

thanks.
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:43 AM
MJBrown62 MJBrown62 is offline
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Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Yes i was looking for confirmation on the invoice calculation (pricing).

I will go ahead and shop this around to dealership and post what offers/deals i receive.

thanks.
Like JJ said this looks like someone send you a clip of the invoice screen. So yeah, if that's the case I would say it's right.

You can build one on Edmunds if you need confirmation.
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Old 11-15-2017, 07:21 AM
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Here's what i have received from a dealer thus far that is offering $4k incentive in addition to $3k holiday credit:
Model: 18XG X5 xDrive35i
MSRP: USD 59,250.00
Wholesale: USD 55,605.00
Package: ZDA
MSRP: USD 1,700.00
Wholesale: USD 1,565.00

Look like the the difference between the base model MSRP and Wholesale price is 93.84810126582278% and difference between package/options MSRP and Wholesale is 92.05882352941175%

Question 1: Shouldn't the difference be 0.93% for base vehicle model and 0.92% for package/options according to this wiki http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=983787

Question 2: What is the November Residual percentage for 2018 X5?

Question 2a: If i'm doing 10k instead of 12k miles lease, by how much should the residual percentage decrease?

Question 3: What is the Tier 1 MF for November for 2018 X5?
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Here's what i have received from a dealer thus far that is offering $4k incentive in addition to $3k holiday credit:
Model: 18XG X5 xDrive35i
MSRP: USD 59,250.00
Wholesale: USD 55,605.00
Package: ZDA
MSRP: USD 1,700.00
Wholesale: USD 1,565.00

Look like the the difference between the base model MSRP and Wholesale price is 93.84810126582278% and difference between package/options MSRP and Wholesale is 92.05882352941175%

Question 1: Shouldn't the difference be 0.93% for base vehicle model and 0.92% for package/options according to this wiki http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=983787
From the screen you posted 1564/1700=0.920000

1565/1700 = 0.92058

So they are making ONE DOLLAR on that option

On the car itself they added 502.50

This wasn't hard to figure out....

55605/59250= 0.93xxxxx

Subtract 0.93 from that, get 0.00xxxx

0.00xxxx times 59250 = 502.50

Quote:
Question 2: What is the November Residual percentage for 2018 X5?
Dunno, but the dealer can't change it. Just go to the BMW website, plug in their numbers to any advertised deal and it will tell you the residual

Quote:
Question 2a: If i'm doing 10k instead of 12k miles lease, by how much should the residual percentage decrease?

Question 3: What is the Tier 1 MF for November for 2018 X5?

Dunni
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Last edited by ard; 11-15-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:43 AM
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Residuals for X5s (not counting the 40e which in the past has had a different residual than the rest of them) look like this, calculated by me today:

36m / 10k = 59
36m / 12k = 58
36m / 15k = 56

Tier 1 MF is NEGOTIABLE this month between .00152 and .00192.

As it pertains to invoice pricing, remember all calculations at bimmerfest are estimates. You are dealing with someone who appears to have SENT YOU the invoice / wholesale pricing. It appears to me that whoever you got that from is being transparent with you (extremely transparent), so there is no need for you to calculate 92.10412312303780389023 percent. They shared with you the actual invoice, so go with that, rather than the formulas here which ESTIMATE invoice to within about $10 or so.
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2017, 09:31 AM
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Great! Thanks a bunch for the information and yes i'm very appreciative of the information i received but wanted to verify wit the forum.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:35 PM
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Finally getting the lease numbers from my dealer and i'm confused by the fuzzy numbers so please let know if this deal look right. NOTE: I'm rolling ALL taxes, fees, etc into the lease (finance). Also, it's a 6 month pull ahead on my current lease and it's a VA lease (taxes on selling price):
First and foremost, dealer agreed to $500 over invoice:
1. Selling price/Wholesale = 70,845.00
2. MSRP = 75,535.00
3. Lease Terms: 36 months
4. Mileage: 10,000/year
5. MF = 0.00152
6. Residual Value = 59%
7. BMW Holiday Rebate: 3000
8. Dealer Contribution: 4000
9. Fleet discount: 1000

NOTE: I've already paid 1000.00 in order to place the order.

Here's the lease details i received from the dealer:
A. Capitalized Cost Reduction = 2291.50
B. First Monthly Payment = 914.00
C. Initial Title Fess = 699.00
C. Initial Registration Fee = 95.50
D. Sales/Use Tax = N/A
E. Acquisition Fee = N/A
F. Sales on Capitalized Cost Reduction = N/A
TOTAL DUE AT SIGNING = 4000.00
How the Amount due at Lease Signing or Delivery Will Be Paid:
i. Rebates and Noncash Credits = 3000
ii. Amount to be Paid in Cash = 1000

1. Gross Capitalized Cost = 69443.77 + items paid over lease term (taxes, fees, etc) = 73429.98
2. Capitalized Cost Reduction = 2291.50
3. Adjusted Capitalized Cost = 71138.48
4. Residual Value = 44565.65
5. Depreciation and any Amortized amount = 26572.83
6. Rent Charge = 6331.17
7. Total of Base Monthly Payments = 32904.00
8. Lease Payments = 36
9. Base Monthly Payment = 914.00
10. Monthly Sales/Use Tax = N/A
11. Total Monthly Payment = 914.00

Thanks to all in advance for helping me decipher the fuzzy math/confusion.
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Last edited by asaseaban; 12-06-2017 at 09:50 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:02 PM
ard ard is offline
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Wait...WHY are you 'doing' a pull ahead???????

I mean all that means is "I am paying 3 months and rolling it into the new car JUST to get out of my old lease into a new lease."


A month (almost) later and this is the first time you mention a 6 month pull ahead.... Could be a cause of the 'fuzziness'...

$914 a month for a car that is $75k..1.22%

If this was a crazy deal, sure- maybe it is worth paying them 3 payments for nothng... But you really should have a compelling need for a pull ahead.

Anyway, my 2 cents

Edit: what is the monthly payment on your current lease, in case someone wants to dig into your numbers....
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OE is Original Equipment: aka 'BMW Original Parts"; aka "What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label on it"

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER 'the company that made the OE part" or.... 'A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label,"

OEM is NOT WHAT YOU BUY AT THE DEALER.


Don't believe me? Read:

http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 12-06-2017 at 11:21 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Wait...WHY are you 'doing' a pull ahead???????

I mean all that means is "I am paying 3 months and rolling it into the new car JUST to get out of my old lease into a new lease."


A month (almost) later and this is the first time you mention a 6 month pull ahead.... Could be a cause of the 'fuzziness'...

$914 a month for a car that is $75k..1.22%

If this was a crazy deal, sure- maybe it is worth paying them 3 payments for nothng... But you really should have a compelling need for a pull ahead.

Anyway, my 2 cents

Edit: what is the monthly payment on your current lease, in case someone wants to dig into your numbers....
My current lease ends April, 2018.
Monthly payment is 820.21
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:59 PM
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What is the tax rate for VA, where you live?

The key, IMO, is you want a breakdown of this line:

Quote:
Gross Capitalized Cost = 69443.77 + items paid over lease term (taxes, fees, etc) = 73429.98
Why are you doing a pull ahead?


Looking at the top part- which I assume is the emails back and forth- they have an alleged 3000+4000+1000=8000 in credits.

I suspect that are giving you a fraction of that in the actual part below...
__________________
.
.
OE is Original Equipment: aka 'BMW Original Parts"; aka "What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label on it"

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER 'the company that made the OE part" or.... 'A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label,"

OEM is NOT WHAT YOU BUY AT THE DEALER.


Don't believe me? Read:

http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
What is the tax rate for VA, where you live?

The key, IMO, is you want a breakdown of this line:



Why are you doing a pull ahead?


Looking at the top part- which I assume is the emails back and forth- they have an alleged 3000+4000+1000=8000 in credits.

I suspect that are giving you a fraction of that in the actual part below...
Doing pull ahead because i thought/think the rabates/incentives were attractive.

VA website state 4.16% but here's the calculation given which shows the tax:

Market Value Selling Price = 75,535.00
Discount = 5005.00
Rebate = 3,000.000
Adjusted Price = 67,530.00
Dealer Processing Fee = 699.00
VA Tag & Title Fee = 95.50
Acquisition Fee = 925.00
Local Business Tax = 142.46
Online System Fee = 10.00
Total Purchase = 69,401.96
Tax = 2,896.34
Net Price = 72,298.30

Last edited by asaseaban; 12-07-2017 at 05:23 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
What is the tax rate for VA, where you live?

The key, IMO, is you want a breakdown of this line:



Why are you doing a pull ahead?


Looking at the top part- which I assume is the emails back and forth- they have an alleged 3000+4000+1000=8000 in credits.

I suspect that are giving you a fraction of that in the actual part below...
Not entirely sure how that breakdown or what's included and dealer is not providing that until i'm ready to sign which i'm not, yet and that's why i'm here trying to get help from the experts and experienced folks.
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Last edited by asaseaban; 12-07-2017 at 05:34 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Doing pull ahead because i thought/think the rabates/incentives were attractive.

VA website state 4.16% but here's the calculation given which shows the tax:

Market Value Selling Price = 75,535.00
Discount = 5005.00
Rebate = 3,000.000
Adjusted Price = 67,530.00
Dealer Processing Fee = 699.00
VA Tag & Title Fee = 95.50
Acquisition Fee = 925.00
Local Business Tax = 142.46
Online System Fee = 10.00
Total Purchase = 69,401.96
Tax = 2,896.34
Net Price = 72,298.30
These numbers seem different that prior numbers.... any explanations? Are they the same 'deal' or has it changed?

Also, based on this breakdown there is a singular rebate of 3000. No "3000+4000+1000", correct?

Or is that "4000+1000" in incentives being used to get the reduction from MSRP? If so, the "youve got to be kidding me". Tell them any idiot can get to invoice +/- without rebates, discounts, fleets, etc

70845 - invoice selling price (includes 'dealer participation')
Holiday Rebate 3000
Fleet discount 1000
New selling price 66845

Dealer Processing Fee = 699.00
VA Tag & Title Fee = 95.50
Acquisition Fee = 925.00
Local Business Tax = 142.46
Online System Fee = 10.00
Total Purchase = 68,017.96
Tax = 2829.55

70847.51

MF0.00152, 59% 36M

905 a month give or take

but zero cash at signing- no down. Maybe you pay first month on the least


Again, im not a lease guy. IMO this isnt a crazy good deal that would drive me.

GL

PS if you were to add $1000 cash, then the lease about would be 70,847...monthly is 876. So there may be two months of your old lease buried in there to explain their numbers

PPS Do you have excel and an online lease calculator to play w numbers??? Doesnt take long to get a sense of them.....
__________________
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OE is Original Equipment: aka 'BMW Original Parts"; aka "What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label on it"

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER 'the company that made the OE part" or.... 'A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label,"

OEM is NOT WHAT YOU BUY AT THE DEALER.


Don't believe me? Read:

http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:19 PM
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It's the same deal...nothing has changed except they keep moving numbers around and it's hard to get a clear picture of how they're coming up with these numbers.

Yes the deal does include Dealer contribution of 4k + 1k fleet discount + 3k holiday credit but again they keep confusing me. I have a spreadsheet and also have the lease calculator spreadsheet and have plugin all these numbers but it never add to what the dealer is doing
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post

Or is that "4000+1000" in incentives being used to get the reduction from MSRP? If so, the "youve got to be kidding me". Tell them any idiot can get to invoice +/- without rebates, discounts, fleets, etc
Yes that seems to be what they're doing. 4k dealer participation + 1k fleet and taking that off of MSRP even though the deal going in was 500 over invoice.
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2003 745Li Titanium Silver - Sold
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
but zero cash at signing- no down. Maybe you pay first month on the least


Again, im not a lease guy. IMO this isnt a crazy good deal that would drive me.

GL

PS if you were to add $1000 cash, then the lease about would be 70,847...monthly is 876. So there may be two months of your old lease buried in there to explain their numbers
I'm putting 1000.00 down (it's the 1,000 i paid to place the order).
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Yes that seems to be what they're doing. 4k dealer participation + 1k fleet and taking that off of MSRP even though the deal going in was 500 over invoice.
You will likely be told "but this deal IS 500 over invoice"... I didnt dig into it ( im sick so I dont feel like doing a bunch of math right now), but if what ard says is correct, the easy explanation is "the deal is 500 over invoice AFTER your incentives".

If they said "sure we can do 500 over invoice" but no one clarified whether that was before or after incentives, they likely "assumed" you ment "after" incentives (yes I know we all know that wouldnt be what you ment, but that is likely what is happening).

The good news is this. Since you are negotiating on invoice price now, you should be able to tell them "since we are negotiating on invoice, I would like to see the invoice cost of the vehicle. Can you please bring me the print out / email me the print out, because your numbers and mine are not adding up. Can you please confirm that the $500 over invoice you are quoting me is BEFORE we apply the incentives I qualify for, because that is what I was expecting?"


See where you get with that. If you are only doing busines via email, they might go dark for a bit. I suggest calculating the invoice using the pricing thread here and your proposed car as the target, then add 500 to it, then subtract all the incentives you think you qualify for and get your sales price. Then you know what you should be at.

Incentives get applied differently to deals, but if you have the invoice, you can add 500 to it and see what your gross cap cost should be, before incentives.

Start with that.
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2016 X5 XDrive35d Space Grey |Blk Dakota W/ Fineline Oak | MSport | Lighting Pack | Premium Pack | Drivers Assist | Drivers Assist + | ACC W Stop N Go | 20" Wheels| Smartphone Integration | Multi Contour Seats | HK Stereo (hers)

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Old 12-07-2017, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
If they said "sure we can do 500 over invoice" but no one clarified whether that was before or after incentives, they likely "assumed" you ment "after" incentives (yes I know we all know that wouldnt be what you ment, but that is likely what is happening).
Now that you mentioned it, i think that's what is happening and that's why they took the incentives off of the MSRP and not the 500 over invoice selling price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Y
The good news is this. Since you are negotiating on invoice price now, you should be able to tell them "since we are negotiating on invoice, I would like to see the invoice cost of the vehicle. Can you please bring me the print out / email me the print out, because your numbers and mine are not adding up. Can you please confirm that the $500 over invoice you are quoting me is BEFORE we apply the incentives I qualify for, because that is what I was expecting?"


See where you get with that. If you are only doing busines via email, they might go dark for a bit. I suggest calculating the invoice using the pricing thread here and your proposed car as the target, then add 500 to it, then subtract all the incentives you think you qualify for and get your sales price. Then you know what you should be at.

Incentives get applied differently to deals, but if you have the invoice, you can add 500 to it and see what your gross cap cost should be, before incentives.

Start with that.
I have the printout (build sheet) and it shows Wholesale 70,490.00 (incl 500.50 over invoice) | MSRP 75,535.00
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Now that you mentioned it, i think that's what is happening and that's why they took the incentives off of the MSRP and not the 500 over invoice selling price.


I have the printout (build sheet) and it shows Wholesale 70,490.00 (incl 500.50 over invoice) | MSRP 75,535.00
You should be getting in the neighborhood of 7-10% off MSRP before the incentives. I live in the DC metro area and can intro you to my CA in MD who will give you a deal like that. PM me if you would like an intro.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:01 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Yes that seems to be what they're doing. 4k dealer participation + 1k fleet and taking that off of MSRP even though the deal going in was 500 over invoice.
They led you to believe this was a highly incentivized deal- 'invoice plus 500' and your eyes then say 4k+3k+1k. They never disabused you of the notion that these arent independent

Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
I'm putting 1000.00 down (it's the 1,000 i paid to place the order).
I understand. I am pointing out that my example is without the 1000. Add the 1k to my numbers and it goes down further (ie their deal is worse)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Y ( im sick so I dont feel like doing a bunch of math right now),


. Can you please bring me the print out / email me the print out, because your numbers and mine are not adding up. t.
knew there was a reason were absent..

BTW, OP had posted the dealerspeed.net print out of the pricing, invoice and all. Dealer (apparently) asked him to remove it....or someone did

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkinra View Post
You should be getting in the neighborhood of 7-10% off MSRP before the incentives. I live in the DC metro area and can intro you to my CA in MD who will give you a deal like that. PM me if you would like an intro.
IMO if OPs dealer is playing with math, time to branch out.

OP, send rkinra a PM, get another quote.

Finally DO NOT feel that 1000 needs to go down, nor that it isnt refundable. You can walk and get the $ back
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OE is Original Equipment: aka 'BMW Original Parts"; aka "What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label on it"

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER 'the company that made the OE part" or.... 'A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label,"

OEM is NOT WHAT YOU BUY AT THE DEALER.


Don't believe me? Read:

http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 12-08-2017 at 12:33 AM.
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:07 AM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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From digging deeper into the numbers, dealer is treating the 3K holiday credit as REBATE and the 5k (4k dealer contribution + 1k fleet discount) as DISCOUNT and knocking off the 5k discount + 3k Rebate off of MSRP then counting the 3k Rebate + 1k order charge as down payment included in the drive off.

Dealer has now agreed to work off of invoice + 500 then applying qualify incentives but won't give clear details until i come in to review and sign. Before i make a last ditch effort of knock of my qualified incentives 8k off the agreed upon invoice + 500 or i'm walking, gotta ask...

Question: How should these incentives be applied or BMW FS leave that to the dealer discretion?
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Last edited by asaseaban; 12-09-2017 at 09:09 AM.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:55 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Location: San Diego
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
From digging deeper into the numbers, dealer is treating the 3K holiday credit as REBATE and the 5k (4k dealer contribution + 1k fleet discount) as DISCOUNT and knocking off the 5k discount + 3k Rebate off of MSRP then counting the 3k Rebate + 1k order charge as down payment included in the drive off.

Dealer has now agreed to work off of invoice + 500 then applying qualify incentives but won't give clear details until i come in to review and sign. Before i make a last ditch effort of knock of my qualified incentives 8k off the agreed upon invoice + 500 or i'm walking, gotta ask...

Question: How should these incentives be applied or BMW FS leave that to the dealer discretion?
We dont normally get to choose whats a rebate and whats a discount. Rebates are cap cost reduction not paid for by you, and discounts are off the sales price of the car. Rebates are taxed in states that tax cap cost reduction (which I think is most states with tax, but I am not sure on that).

So, its normal for them to apply a rebate as cap cost reduction against the drive offs (as cap cost reduction). if they are selling at 500 over invoice, prior to your fleet (I thought fleet was also cap cost reduction but I dont do this for a living), look at the gross cap cost of the car (sales price) and then your cap reductions (rebates) and importantly your cap additions.

Thats where things get added to the cap cost, like doc fees, or other fees.
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:32 AM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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Based on all the information i've gathered from the dealer, here's what the final lease agreement is looking like and i don't see where ALL 8k in incentives is being applied.
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