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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

94K views 792 replies 102 participants last post by  sf_loft 
#1 ·
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_show...t_2013_cadillac_ats_first_look/#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
 
#392 ·
The rear-drive Premium ATS (w/ LSD and magnetic ride control) is reportedly $48k.

I love that the moonroof is optional on every model. :thumbup:
 
#398 ·
Having moved into the CTS from the E60, I can say that I believe most will be happy with the build quality of the Cadillac. American cars are not what they used to be in these past few decades. I think most will be happy with the new ATS'es handling characteristics. Just like a BMW, the Caddy will need to be equipped properly. For the CTS I purchased the FE3 performance package, and the Recaro seats. These two features brought me very close to the "feel" of my beloved 5er with sport package and multi-contour seats. Though the car doesn't handle quite as well as the E60, it comes far closer in handling dynamics than the F10 does. A beneficial trade-off for me was that ride comfort is far superior in the Cadillac. I have no more bone jarring shocks when accidentally hitting a pothole, or traversing a speed bump. Coming from the 06 530i, the power coming out of the turns or from a straight line start, is also much better in the CTS. The electronics on the CTS were not as good as in the bimmer, but in this regard I think the new Cadillacs have come a long way since I bought my Caddy two years ago. This should be apparent in the new ATS.

I think that the new ATS may kick the E90's @$$ in a lot of ways, and I think that it will give the F30 a pretty good run. I'd give it a good look as a replacement to my CTS as I've been that pleased with it. I believe the F30 may kick the ATSes butt in rear seat space and trunk room, though I'm not sure about that. These are two points that contributed to my choosing the E60 over the E90 back in '05.

The F30, IMHO, has fixed those two issues, rear seat space and trunk room. It's improved it's looks over the E90, IMHO, and has softened the ride while maintaining most of the good handling characteristics of the old car. This is unlike the F10, which has totally lost any semblance to the E60 in regards to handling.

With a trip to Germany, pending next April, an ED for a new 3er is a perfect situation for me, especially considering that the car "fixes" the problems I had with the previous iteration. If it weren't for the trip though, and for my absolute love of the F30, I'd be giving the ATS a good look in a couple of years.
 
#402 ·
The ATS may very well be the best all around entry level sport sedan, but what PISSES me off about GM is that they always leave their vehicles less than perfect. That CUE is going to be devastating. It's a very laggy touchscreen system thats already behind the curve even before its fully available. I't like they've been focused on BMW's dynamics so hard that they completely missed Ford's Sync system and how bad the ratings were on it.

The competition already has instrument cluster-level infotainment screens without touch screen, but GM decided not to do the same. I hope this car delivers because just like Sync, that CUE system will keep it from being perfect. Touch screens (in vehicles) are a thing of the past especially since top manufactures are now elevating them to keep them at eye level.
 
#428 ·
The ATS may very well be the best all around entry level sport sedan, but what PISSES me off about GM is that they always leave their vehicles less than perfect. That CUE is going to be devastating. It's a very laggy touchscreen system thats already behind the curve even before its fully available. I't like they've been focused on BMW's dynamics so hard that they completely missed Ford's Sync system and how bad the ratings were on it.

The competition already has instrument cluster-level infotainment screens without touch screen, but GM decided not to do the same. I hope this car delivers because just like Sync, that CUE system will keep it from being perfect. Touch screens (in vehicles) are a thing of the past especially since top manufactures are now elevating them to keep them at eye level.
At a local upscale mall, Cadillac is showing both an XTS and an ATS with the 3.6L -- the latter is supposed to be a direct competitor of my 335i.

While I didn't drive the car (obviously), I did get to sit in it and play with CUE.

The press has been easy on it, even though they've been savaging it. For me, the most disappointing thing about CUE is that the lower section of controls (the part with the power and volume controls) actually flexes 1/4 of an inch every time you press a control. I couldn't believe it did this -- but the XTS also displayed the same behavior.

The Caddy attendant confirmed this was be design.

It completely ruins any perception of quality -- it feels just like the switchgear in a late 90s Chevy Beretta. I am amazed that GM would design a car with "flexing" control panels given that they are trying to restore their reputation for quality. It feels weird, looks weird and it totally out of place in a $50K car.
 
#404 · (Edited)
CUE is what put me off ATS for my new car this year. I hate the idea of futzing around with a touch-screen while driving. Too many things can go wrong, both inside and outside the car.

I drove the C300 and while their screen is better than CUE, it still takes too many clicks and turns to get what I want out of it.

I think iDrive is the gold standard of screens. Once you invest the time to learn it, usability becomes second nature. And the aesthetics of the information delivery is first-class.
 
#408 · (Edited)
I think iDrive is the gold standard of screens. Once you invest the time to learn it, usability becomes second nature. And the aesthetics of the information delivery is first-class.
I think the same can be said about CUE, just a learning process for a very different user experience. Once you are familiar with it, it becomes second nature.

The reviewers will never have time to get familiar with them, at least not initially.
 
#413 ·
I don't think Cadillac had any illusions about outselling BMW. The ATS is their attempt to enter the market segment and it will take a few years for sales to build.

I know the fanbois here will deny that but I would guess BMW is watching the segment very closely. Remember the "No BMW driver will ever buy a rebadged Toyota" claims. I know BMW does because Lexus was the best selling luxury brand until BMW took the title recently. Lexus took the title from Cadillac and they also made a huge dent in BMW and Mercedes sales. Cadillac and Lexus lost the market by making poor decisions. BMW hasn't yet but that does not mean they can't.
 
#415 ·
BMW is now offering me a $3,500 incentive on top of what I'm able to negotiate with the dealer. That's a compelling reason to choose a BMW.
 
#425 · (Edited)
Duplicate Post
 
#436 ·
You know what? I'm going to reserve my judgment until I've driven one. Plain and simple.

I buy BMW not because of the toys, or even the quality of the dash materials; I am on my third BMW car now because of driving dynamics. Yes, the other stuff feeds into the perception of the car, but for me 95% of the car is how it feels when I change gears, push the throttle and turn the steering wheel into a sweeping turn.

I won't discount GM; they've built some damned good cars. Back in 1999 I had a brand new Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (my first ever brand new car). Talk about horrible interior materials; but that engine was seriously to die for and just the addition of a strut tower brace completely changed the feel of that thing's steering in the corners. A smaller supercharger pulley and some minor engine mods and the thing was a seriously smoking-fast car. From a driving dynamics perspective it only fell behind because it was front wheel drive. Later versions of the same car never quite had the same feel. I only got rid of it because my new and newly pregnant wife hated the hard ride and the rather unyielding leather.
 
#455 · (Edited)
Autoguide just announced ATS 3.6 the second of the three Car of the Year finalists (Scion fr-s first announced), will be interesting to see which is the 3rd.

Similar to MT, they had a list of issues with the ATS, but the fun driving factor seemed enough to get them to overlook all of the issues.

I am ready to replace my car a year from now, yes ATS will be on my short list. But if they don't offer a blacked out trim I might just skip ATS. I hate shining chrome all over.
 
#456 ·
Returned from Florida on Sunday. I rented a C Class from Hertz for a month. If they had an ATS I would have rented one. They had a CTS but no ATS.

CA
 
#459 ·
Returned from Florida on Sunday. I rented a C Class from Hertz for a month. If they had an ATS I would have rented one. They had a CTS but no ATS.

CA
Cadillac probably has not produced cars for the rental market yet while they are rolling the ATS out into retail.
 
#457 ·
You know, just for fun we might go check one out on Saturday. Problem is, if they have a red CTS-V wagon, I'll need a crowbar to get Mrs. MMME30W out. :bigpimp:
 
#458 ·
Does that mean she really likes the car or she eats too much chocolate?
 
#462 ·
Hertz has them listed in the Prestige Collection but when I try to book one they do show up on the list.

CA
 
#465 ·
They sell a s.hitload of Escalades around here because women used to own Suburbans before hubby moved them up to the big house. Virtually none of these people will have an ATS in their driveway. Maybe it's because they remember gramps picking lint out of his navel in a similarly ugly Cadillac.
 
#466 ·
Before picking up my 2013 335 M-Sport 6spd last weekend I did test drive the automatic ATS 3.6 Premium. The car drove excellent and the fit/finish was excellent. I would have considered one if they offered a manual in their 3.6 models. Unfortunatly, they only offer the manual on the 2.0T which I have no interest in.

The CA that helped me said they have done a few updated to the CUE system since it was introduced. The one I tested worked well. I did not have any of the issues reviewers had with the system. This car will likely start selling well once they build up inventory levels. The funny thing is the CA told me the 2.5 model is selling really well because most of the customers dont care about the engine. They want the styling and the features.
 
#467 · (Edited)
Before picking up my 2013 335 M-Sport 6spd last weekend I did test drive the automatic ATS 3.6 Premium. The car drove excellent and the fit/finish was excellent. I would have considered one if they offered a manual in their 3.6 models. Unfortunatly, they only offer the manual on the 2.0T which I have no interest in.

The CA that helped me said they have done a few updated to the CUE system since it was introduced. The one I tested worked well. I did not have any of the issues reviewers had with the system. This car will likely start selling well once they build up inventory levels. The funny thing is the CA told me the 2.5 model is selling really well because most of the customers dont care about the engine. They want the styling and the features.
That sounds like BJ as well. He seems to be more interested in form over function.

I have to spend a couple of hours at the BMW dealer on Wednesday for my wife's 535xi. I'm hoping to drive the new 6 Series 4 door coupe, and if I get the chance, an F30 328i. I really hope that I like the F30, and if I don't, I will try to keep my mouth shut so I don't get chastised. :yikes:
 
#472 ·
I am sure it’s a great car for people who can't afford a BMW or just want an American sports car. But the only thing about the ATS they don't seem to point out in reviews. Is everything the ATS does amazingly well it does something equally horrible.

It handles like an E46...but the ride is rough and harsh.

The interior looks great...but feels cheap.

The chassis is amazing but the powertrain are no so amazing.

It has great technology but the Cue system is an abomination.

Trust me I am not hating on the ATS I think for the right people this will be a great car. I am just not sure they are going to get enough people to switch from other brands.
 
#473 ·
I am sure it's a great car for people who can't afford a BMW or just want an American sports car. But the only thing about the ATS they don't seem to point out in reviews. Is everything the ATS does amazingly well it does something equally horrible.

It handles like an E46...but the ride is rough and harsh.

The interior looks great...but feels cheap.

The chassis is amazing but the powertrain are no so amazing.

It has great technology but the Cue system is an abomination.

Trust me I am not hating on the ATS I think for the right people this will be a great car. I am just not sure they are going to get enough people to switch from other brands.
The E46 did not ride like a limousine so there's that and the interior from what I've seen in person doesn't feel any cheaper than an F30, just different. Cue is not an "abomination" but it needs to be better and the 3.6 powertrain is universally acclaimed as a gem. yes the 2.0T is lacking as is it's transmission which is an issue for an enthusiast who wants a MT. The general public who wants an entry level luxury sport sedan will probably care less unless they just want the badge.
 
#474 ·
ATS available with factory LSD and has better warranty than BMW.

For the avg driver the ATS is probably a better deal.

FWIW I'm still disappointed in the F30 NAV. WTH. Too cheap to make it fold into the dash like Audi.
Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
 
#475 ·
ATS available with factory LSD and has better warranty than BMW.

For the avg driver the ATS is probably a better deal.

FWIW I'm still disappointed in the F30 NAV. WTH. Too cheap to make it fold into the dash like Audi.
Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
Its hard to drive when you are on LSD, but I am sure factory LSD is better than street LSD. :D
 
#477 · (Edited)
Guys no need to hyperventilate about the ATS. The S4 was crowned the king of the 335i by many magazines. But now that the ATS is out, no one is using the S4 as the benchmark. The benchmark still remains the 3er. The ATS will win some comparisons this year and maybe next, but it will soon be forgotten by the very same reviewers just like the S4.

Relax, there is nothing to fear, if the S4 failed, you think the ATS will do any better?
 
#478 · (Edited)
The 3 Series is being used as the benchmark because Cadillac very clearly stated that that was the car they were going after. I don't think anyone, including GM, expects that the ATS is going to outsell the 3. The ATS is part of Cadillac's strategy of redefining itself. This is not something that is going to happen over night and it looks like they are headed in the right direction.

The Audi S4 did not fail. It is selling very well.

I really don't understand why it is so important to so many people here for the ATS to fail.

CA
 
#486 · (Edited)
The Luxury car market, and particularly the entry level portion of it, is a very competive and very hotly contested market. In terms of sales Cadillac lead it for years until Lexus took the top spot. Lexus held it until recently when BMW took the top spot. BMW has the lead currently but Lexus, Mercedes and Audi are all in a position to take it from them. I don't see Cadillac regaining the position in the forseeable future but they are definintely making a comeback and are making far more competive offerings that appeal to a wider market than they have in years.

Excepts from a recent article in Forbes:

In the auto industry, as in politics, a third-party entry into a well-known, hotly contested race can cause significant consternation among the rank and file. Sometimes it'll prove enough of a jolt to spoil the lead for a previously guaranteed winner.
<O:p</O:p
American voters saw it when Ralph Nader broke up the deadlock between George W. Bush and Al Gore in 2000. American drivers are seeing it this year, as Audi threatens to affect the years-long deadheat between BMW and Mercedes-Benz for luxury market supremacy.
<O:p</O:p
According to monthly sales figures compiled by Autodata, Audi is closing in on BMW and Mercedes in the race to sell the most luxury cars on the market this year. It likely won't surpass either in overall volume, but it will siphon sales off current leader BMW. Having a target of 200,000 annual sales by 2020, nearly double what it sells now, won't hurt in the process.<O:p</O:p
"It's really a slug-fest between BMW and Mercedes," says Mike Wall, an auto analyst for IHS Automotive. "Audi is still down in the rankings, but boy they're making a move."
<O:p</O:p
Last month the Mercedes brand beat BMW by 3,189 deliveries though it finished just slightly behind in total sales for 2011. Audi trails both by more than 80,000 deliveries in year-to-date sales; analysts expect that gap to close in the coming years.
<O:p</O:p
Indeed, in a contest once dominated by Lexus, which was No. 1 for 11 years in a row but faltered after Japan's 2011 earthquake, Audi has added a particular volatility that will make it difficult for BMW to repeat its top status.
<O:p</O:p
"There's going to be a lot of action before the year is over," Wall says.<O:p</O:p
 
#487 · (Edited)
That's an interesting article. The VW Group has a terrific stable of auto brands which makes them a force to be reckoned with, both now, and in the future. It will be tough for independent brands like BMW and Mercedes to continue their long term growth while remaining independent.
 
#488 · (Edited)
Now the two of you are proving BJ's point, by using the analogy of a third-party entry into politics in the US:)

As much as no one expected ATS to outsell 3 series, sales figures do matter. They need to at least beat Audi and Infiniti in time to prove themselves.

BTW, both Audi A4/A5/S4/S5 and Infiniti G sold close to 5,000 each last month.
 
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