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oil. dipstick. again.

5K views 93 replies 25 participants last post by  thekurgan 
#1 ·
So I downloaded PDF manual for 2010 BMW 3 series from bmwusa.com. And it has this at Page 137:

Checking the engine oil level with the dipstick*

1. Park the vehicle on a level surface with the engine at operationg temperature, i.e. after an uninterrupted drive of at least 6.5 miles / 10 km.
2. Swith off the engine.
3. After approx. 5 minutes, pull out the dipstick...


At the same time * Indicates special equipment, country-specific equipment and optional accessories, as well as equipment and functions not yet available at the time of printing

Pre CLI owner manual does not have this section at all.

So can anybody verify \ tell me. Is it back?
 
#6 ·
:rofl:

BMW's sensors never fail :eek:

Seriously, though, the sensor does work properly, but this is one of those situations where people are stuck thinking "How do I KNOW it's working properly?" There's no way to crosscheck the info it's telling you. Which, if it's giving you a false positive reading, and you're running 2.5 quarts low for some reason...you get the idea.
 
#11 ·
Along the lines of having the dipstick to take a spot check on the oil level and oil appearance; elimination of the dipstick is a step closer in the direction of making it more difficult to DIY maint. It seems harder and harder to reset the computer for simple monitoring of oil changes. From my 01 530i to the 06 330XI and now for the 2010.
 
#12 ·
They claim it is an euro emissions thing that then need to seal the crankcase, so the sensor let's them do that, the dipstick won't hold pressure, but I am pretty sure they could come up with a simple dipstick that has a seal and is threaded in and voila, something simple, reliable and working!
 
#15 ·
I don't buy that fairy tale. If it were true, then all Euro cars would be losing the dipstick. VW, Audi, Volvo, and, and, and are fitting dipsticks to their cars.

I wonder if the missing dipstick is a bangle-ism?:thumbdwn:
 
#24 ·
Really, you guys want it back? Isn't the oil dipstick is a thing of the past?

I expect my car to just work = be reliable. I'll throw it back at its maker if it isn't.

Personally, the only time I lift the hood is to add some windshield washer fluid... :)
BMW's used to be made for "Drivers."
Sadly that is no longer the case....they are being made for old ladies and appliance operators.:(
 
#27 ·
I just figured it was so you could show up in this thread and start arguing with people. :eek:
 
#31 ·
All sensor failures and such aside, the nearly only advantage of a dipstick is the ability to take an oil level reading instantaneously instead of having to drive 5 miles or so for the oil sensor to display the level.

That delay is very annoying. Last time I brought the car to the dealership for brake fluid flush, I told them to add half a quart of oil, because that's what the sensor was showing. The SA assured me that they always top-up all the fluids. Guess what, when I came home, the sensor showed 1/2 Qt low. I suspect that they were just unable to take an oil level measurement at the dealership or they just never check it because they can't do it without driving the car around until it reaches normal working temperature.
 
#32 · (Edited)
All sensor failures and such aside, the nearly only advantage of a dipstick is the ability to take an oil level reading instantaneously instead of having to drive 5 miles or so for the oil sensor to display the level.
I like to be able to see the color of the oil as well as its level., as I do use that as well as mileage/time as an oil change indicator. I also like a reason to open the hood weekly and check things out for cleanliness, odors, etc. and the dipstick gave us a reason.

I agree sensors do fail. I think we will see a return of the dipstick eventually. :thumbup:
 
#35 ·
I still do not understand why this is an "either or" debate. Provide the old fashioned dipstick on the engine for us traditionalist purists and the electronic dipstick for people who have no inclination to open the hood. My 1985 535i has both, a level sensor and dipstick. Much better engineering, since they are redundant systems that allow for insight into the actual condition of the oil.

Cheers,

Chuck
 
#36 ·
The oil level sender is about $271 (or at least is was 2 years ago), you should figure on at least 1 to 2 hours of labor to replace and calibrate the replacement oil sender.
So if and when your oil level sender goes bad you are looking at a $500 bill. Having a manual backup system (a dipstick) makes sense, I have accepted the lack of a dipstick but I really wish one was still there so I could double check the sender reading.
That is exactly what I was proposing, why not have both and make everyone happy.
 
#43 ·
Those who are happy with the sensor instead of the dipstick, great, walk away, you'll get nowhere arguing with the rest of us who want something that isn't there. We are just venting about it being absent on newer models. Having both, I do appreciate having a dipstick in one of the vehicles. :)
 
#45 ·
Every f_cking week
 
#48 ·
Habit, just like I check the air in my tires, even though there is a sensor for that too.
 
#49 ·
Here's an idea: For the ones who don't want a dipstick that's fine. You don't have to ever lift up your hood even if you have one. For the ones who want a dipstick, let them check with a dipstick. What's all the fuss. To each their own. Just because you don't do what somebody else does or understand why they do it a particular way so what. We all love BMW's right. :p
 
#50 · (Edited)
thekurgan:

And out of all the times you check for oil, how often did you find the engine needed more?

Do you top-up once every other month, once every six months?

When you top-up, do you fill up to the max level?

Oil level is different when the engine is cold vs. when it's hot. When is the level check performed? How does it relate to the toping up, eventually to the Max level?

I am trying to assert the need to do this on a regular basis other than to satisfy an old habit?

Oil will evaporate and be used up by the engine over time but it's nothing your BMW technicians cannot take care off by the time the cars needs it. It should coincide with your regular dealership visit once or twice a year.
 
#52 ·
And out of all the times you check for oil, how often did you find the engine needed more?

Do you top-up once every other month, once every six months?

When you top-up, do you fill up to the max level?

Oil level is different when the engine is cold vs. when it's hot. When is the level check performed? How does it relate to the toping up, eventually to the Max level?

I am trying to assert the need to do this on a regular basis other than to satisfy an old habit?

Oil will evaporate and be used up by the engine over time but it's nothing your BMW technicians cannot take care off by the time the cars needs it. It should coincide with your regular dealership visit once or twice a year.
I haven't had to add any to the S54, the N54, about 1/2 quart in 15k miles. It will remain a habit and mainly because I don't bring the car to the dealerships that often, especially the M coupe because they are incompetent and usually overfill the S54 so I do it myself, and I do it myself because I like it. I think those of us who are mechanically inclined deserve a dipstick and those that want to follow the owner's manual don't really care. Oh, and I never top to the MAX, always right in between and I check the oil warm, usually after I've pumped the fuel so it sits a minute. I also like to check the color of the oil as well.
 
#57 ·
thekurgan:

I see, so if you were to check the oil level twice a year vs. checking every week, it would seem you wouldn't miss much action here.

Being curious about mechanics is fine, but thinking your actions/ habit as described above makes you a qualified and knowledgeable mechanic....

And the color of the oil, a visual inspection reveals what exactly, that it gets darker over time as you drive your car?
If the engine had some sort of traumatic problem, don't you think you'd know about it without and before inspecting the oil level and color?


Just saying...
 
#64 ·
thekurgan:

I see, so if you were to check the oil level twice a year vs. checking every week, it would seem you wouldn't miss much action here.

Being curious about mechanics is fine, but thinking your actions/ habit as described above makes you a qualified and knowledgeable mechanic....

And the color of the oil, a visual inspection reveals what exactly, that it gets darker over time as you drive your car?
If the engine had some sort of traumatic problem, don't you think you'd know about it without and before inspecting the oil level and color?

Just saying...
Yes, I get your point, it's about saving time mostly, and I appreciate some of BMWs thinking and they are in the marketing groove of "less maintenance = less cost for the owner". Oil color can reveal many things, gas/coolant contamination for one. I have noticed in the 15k miles on the S54, when it starts to get dark, my mileage is just about 4500-5000 and that's when I change it, it's just me, I am not purporting to be some master mechanic, in fact I rarely take anything apart, I am just following what I was taught by my father and grandfather, decent periodic maintenance skills. I/we don't need BMW to "dummy us down" ... the oil sensor is one I don't want to trust, as it makes no sense to me, maybe to others, it's sweet technology, "look, I never have to get my hands dirty with my BMW, never open the hood" ... not me bruddah.
 
#88 ·
Although I've always been a DIY home mechanic for most things, and although I would 'trust' a mechanical dipstick moreso than an electronic sensor (especially one that requires the engine to be run for a bit first before measuring), I can understand why BMW did it. It's a sad fact that most BMW owners never even open the hood, other than to maybe show off the engine. But definitely not to work on it (fellow 'Festers and forum/car junkies notwithstanding :D ). I'm sure they figured if there was a way the banker in the suit could check his oil from the comfort and cleanliness of inside the car, and make it easy to do, then the average owner might actually check it occasionally, and upon discovering a low oil situation might actually do something preventative about it, rather than drive it around until the oil light comes on the dash, at which point it's usually too late to avoid damage.

I'm not concerned about the sensor failing or whatnot, but I do agree with others who've posted about the importance of the oil gauge vs other gauges in the vehicle failing. Just about any other gauge or light could fail in the car and the worst thing that would happen is you would be stranded at the side of the road (out of gas, dead battery). Maybe even a speeding ticket for a failed speedometer. BUT, if the oil gauge fails and the car runs out of oil, you're looking at catastrophic engine damage and a very expensive repair bill. So that one gauge needs to be more robust than the others. Now sure, you could argue with the mechanical dipstick that Joe banker never checks anyway, it doesn't matter if the electronic gauge is more or less reliable since he wouldn't have checked to begin with. And I personally always check the oil level in a cold engine--something I can't do with my E93.

BUT, truth be told, once I know any car can go through its standard oil change interval without using any oil, and once I establish that the car doesn't burn oil on a regular basis, I rarely, if ever, check the dipstick. My previous Acura TL-S was like that. I know it didn't use oil, and it didn't leak oil, so as long as I didn't see any signs of leaks or burning oil, I never checked the dipstick between changes. If I did, it was always clean and full. I do find myself checking the oil in my E93 more than I would with a dipstick just because it's more convenient (even though I'm in the mechanical dipstick fan club). So I can see the reason why BMW did what they did. I wasn't okay with it when I first got the car and heard all the Chicken Little's proclaiming impending engine disaster because of it. But now that I've thought about it, the car, and how I use it, I'm okay with it. Even as a shadetree mechanic DIYer.
 
#91 · (Edited)
A tale of two cars - one with a dipstick and the other without.

At first, I too was a bit miffed by not having a dipstick to check on the bimmer. I have always had one with previous vehicles and felt somewhat at a loss at not having one on this car. What to do? But now, I am over 100K miles and realize I don't even check the sensor reading on the DIC that often. In fact probably not more than five times in the life of the car. It doesn't burn any oil and every time i checked it, the level is always good. Maybe the sensor doesn't even work - who knows? Yet, it still runs and it is at least full up every 10K miles - my oil change interval. I don't worry about it anymore.

Now, I have another car that is my garage queen. Indeed, she is a little over three years old since I bought it and has under 10K miles on the odometer. So ~3300 miles a year is the average miles she gets driven. Being Italian, she has a dry sump motor. Which means - for those not familiar - there is an separate oil tank instead of an integrated under-motor oil pan. Thing is, to check the oil in the oil tank, one has to have the motor idling. Problem with the motor idling is that it is circulating oil between the tank and motor and this tends to get the oil a bit foamy. So it is very very difficult to get an accurate reading on the stick. Now if the oil is brand new, there is less aeration, but once there is a couple of thousand miles on the fluid, it starts frothing. Kind of like a beer with a good head of foam. Except the oil tank isn't clear on the sides and the only view is through the cap opening. Another factor is how warm or hot the oil is to check. Can't check it cold, nor too hot for accurate readings.

So after about the fifteenth time of checking the oil, and trying to figure out if the car is only a 1/4 quart or quart and half low, it is now too hot to check again. Even with precautions, oil has now dripped down the stick and down the sides of the oil tank, making a mess of the car and the garage floor. There is only one answer - do an oil change. Then one knows how many quarts are in there - maybe - cause it is Italian that means 7.8 quarts. Great. Measure that. So what began as a quick 10 minute check of the oil has now turned into an all day project to change oil. The day is basically shot. (Including time spent on the floor in the fetal position from "WTH is my oil level?" stress overload.) Thus, the car has had 100 million oil changes in its brief 10K mile life.

Maybe the sensor isn't such a bad idea.
 
#94 ·
Some of us are purists, is that ok with you or what? You're coming into this thread much too late either way ... dead subject.
 
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