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Calling all Touring owners

56K views 134 replies 35 participants last post by  ahmed540it 
#1 ·
I have a 2000 540 with the sport suspension and 50K miles. I also have the airbags in the rear. My car will softly bounce 5-6 times when I come to a complete stop. It's worse when I calmly stop than when jamming on the brakes. I thought the problem was the shocks so I replaced them with new Koni FSDs. I also replaced the thrust arms while I was in there. The behavior is a little better but it's still there.

I can think of two things it might be. First is that the other suspension bushings are bad. I'd have to replace all of them to tighten them up. Second is that the airbag suspension is somehow mushy and the shocks can't dampen them out. The first seems more likely.

Has anybody else with a wagon seen this? Is mine the only car with this problem?
 
#96 ·
Cost of Franlkin puller AFT47 sent to the US

I am not sure you are going to like this....

E-Bay puller sent to me = £247

I have estimated it weighs 2.5kg (a single bush weighs 2Kg) so the theory is the puller is slightly heavier...???!!!

I went through Parcel Force signed / insured delivery, UPS and Fedex
With a quote to ship to El Segundo... only cos I have a post code there so could make the quote machine work! :)

Parcel force seem to be cheapest @ £52, UPS £73, Fedex £83

So taking 247 + 52 for shiping, and wrestling the Paypal rates for currency conversion for a private exchange + 3.5% charge +£0.30 for something,
I arrived at a total in USD of probably around $590

So that is a rough estimate of a new one of these pullers to the US...

I will see if I can contact Franklin to find if they have an outlet in the USA. Watch this space....
 
#98 ·
Attn: DriftworksJames

I have chickened out, 6-8 hours on my back in my driveway, when I am sooooo busy was getting me worried!

The good news: :thumbup:

I have just contacted a BMW specialist in Stoke on Trent (not far up the road from you), who will do the bushes for me for a very good labour rate. This will cost me more than the "rent" / "share" of a puller, but is loads less hastle. Something around £150 for the job + just under £200 for the bushes (which is the best price I can get them for).
So effectively I am forking out £100 more to have them done for me, than if I did them myself!

He is also willing to put in the bushes I got from Eurocarparts.com (Lemforder 33 31 1 094 036, or 623 11 0495) which I have confirmed as being the correct bushes!

You can get his details here:

http://www.pjautomotive.co.uk/diagnostics.asp

Added bonus he will lend a car while the fix is being done, so I don't have to wait around!

I am booked for Tuesday 4th March :clap:

So with luck all will be back to normal very soon :drive:

I am still willing to get / send a puller to the USA with a paypal payment.
Can you trust me to do the job? Well you can use paypal to get back at me if I fail. :bang:
 
#99 · (Edited)
Puller designers dimensions

Final word for now....
I have measured up the bush, all dimensions are only done using a steel rule so are +- 0.5 / 1mm.
This should be good enough to design a puller from.
One point to note, the bush has a larger diameter at the top metal tube than the bottom, so I am guessing that the chassis has has a locating dowel 25 mm long by 28/29mm diameter. So to get a nut above the bush to exert force on the top of the bush you will need to drop the subframe by probably about 35 - 40 mm.

Another thought.... how about getting 2x longer subframe bolt cut the head off and cut a new fine thread on it. Tighten the bolt through the bush in to the chassis, like inserting a stud, after having packed the bush out by about 1-2cm (washers between chassis and bush). Then design a fitting to push the subframe back using nuts on the fine thread cut on the other end of the bolt. Push the subframe back the 1-2cm of packing, loosen, add more packing and repeat!
i.e. use the actual chassis of the car instead of a puller.. just a thought.
 

Attachments

#101 · (Edited)
HITC:

Thanks for taking the measurements and posting the picture. It'll help with the home-brewed puller - installer solutions. :)

99Wagon:

Even with new "air springs" [BMW's term] if the fluid filled bushings are gone you'll get a "THUD" and perhaps a double "THUD, THUD, thud ..." from sub-frame rebounding over bumps and interacting with the compression rebounding of the dampers [shocks] and against the unibody.

That is what I have going on and it is annoying ... especially after I replaced 99% of the worn out suspension [which isn't hard to do if you take your time] including air springs and sport OEM dampers.

Other major complaint is "oscillation" or "wallowing" under heavy / hard lateral G loads like in taking your favorite on-ramp to interstate and after car takes initial set into the corner.
 
#102 · (Edited)
Car Fixed - owners near Stoke on Trent UK

Sorry those of you in the US this isn't much use for you!

DriftworksJames and people with BMWs near Stoke on Trent...

Following up on my previous thread,

Just after I got delivered the bushes to fit, I happened to be driving in to my local town behind a Landrover, with an advert on its wheel cover... PJ Automotive BMW specialists, I quickly jotted down the number and web address (http://www.pjautomotive.co.uk/), and ended up getting the work done by them today! (they told me they had sold the Landrover over two years ago, so it was a stroke of luck!)

First impressions... the car is firmer on the road and corners much better. :thumbup:
It does not bounce, and never did bounce, I still am not convinced bushes going cause bounce!

They took the car by 9:30am ish and I was driving home again by 4pm allowing for the 1hour run from my work location to Stoke, this to me is a good turnaround.

Total costs may vary depending on the difficulty of getting the bushes out, but the work and bushes (2 Lemforder supplied by me courtesy of Eurocar parts in astonishingly fast turnaround time (ordered 5:45 in the evening arrived 7:45 the following morning :yikes:), and 2 supplied by PJ) came to around £365 with the bushes costing not far off £200 of that, a bit painful on the pocket, but not as painful as the >£1000 quote for 2 bushes from my local BMW agent, and less than the £7-800 for 4 bushes quoted by the 4+ BMW agent.

PJ loaned me an old 3 series to use for the day... a bit of a worn and battered one, but still fun to drive :D

In afterthought I should have asked PJ to let me photo the puller, but I only had my phone so the quality would be bad!

Any of you guys from PJ (if you read this) prepared to post a photo of the puller (expanded) for the USA owners?

That's it from me for now...

ping me if you want a Franklin puller sending to USA :drink:
 
#103 ·
OK.....I went to my local BMW dealer for some wiper refills, which I was amazed were 10 bucks total for the two front and 1 rear and they installed them.

I checked the service area and asked for quotes on the subframe bushings and new tie rods. The bushings were 1200 installed with alignment. the tie rods were another 300 and change. Pricey......but not too terrible.

I then went to ICS in Stamford. I've used these guys for several cars and they know their stuff. The pricing came to 850 for the tie rod install and busings....but I need to get the bushings (BMW quoted 120 each for the damn things).

Anyone have the cheapest price on ordering the bushings in the US? I'm going with the ICS install in the next few months.
 
#104 · (Edited)
I have FSD, and think the "bounce" is a result of the Koni FSD dampers, which have VERY little damping compared to OE, until you take a corner. With FSD, the car rides like a buick and corners like a bimmer. Pretty cool, but not perfect, either.

Question: When you guys jack-up the rear of the car via the diff, do you notice that the rear subframe bushings move upward about an inch from the large washers underneath? This can't be good for the bushings . . .
 
#109 ·
Hold on... With the car just sitting there under its own weight, there should be about 1/4" between the top of the bushing and the bottom of the car body. Yes, I suppose that gap is reduced some when you jack up the rear end. I wouldn't worry about it, given that this is a known jack point.
 
#105 ·
I can't see how it's the FSDs. My bouncing got better when I installed the FSDs. The mechanic said my old shocks were completely gone so I was getting no damping. Let's assume you're right that the FSDs don't have as much damping as the OEMs. I still wouldn't be getting 4-6 oscillations when coming to a stop unless the FSDs were broken too. I think that's very unlikely since they're new shocks.
 
#106 ·
Well, that seems to confirm what i'm saying :dunno: . . .

Zero damping (blown OE shocks) = most oscillations
moderate damping (FSD) = moderate oscilaltions

I do not get 4-6 oscillations - more like 2, but my car only has 65k on it. So maybe its a combo of lack of damping and sub bushings. When I stop, I can feel the rear go up and down (albeit SLIGHTLY) an extra time or two.
 
#108 ·
My local dealer has them for ~ $85 each. Part # 33311094036

This is high but not as high as some common after-market vendors used here.

I would go OE on these simply b/c will be doing it precisely one time in my ownership of the car ....

What prices have you found by searching the Inter-webs?
 
#111 ·
Subframe bushings done! I'll try to post a write-up this week. At last! I've been living with that annoying jiggle for months!!! :thumbup:
 
#118 · (Edited)
Hey dbruce,

I'm sure you've seen the price on oembimmerparts. That seemed like a good price to me.

Obviously I still haven't posted a write-up on my install. It sucked. My homebrew tool worked barely on the first bushing, then better on the other three (a month later). The tool was clunky but worked. galled the threads on one part because I didn't think it needed to be greased. glad the job is done, but ...

I also proved that I have at least one bent Style 5, and a bad tire on another. Both of those were on the rear end of the car - and hence the source of a lot of vibration.

Fixing the bushings did essentially eliminate the extra vibrations after hitting "transverse ridges", and also greatly reduced tramlining. The front ones were badly cracked; rears less so. ~100k miles.

Oh, by the way, I rebuilt my front end last fall, using one of FCP Groton's rebuild kits. Either one tie rod end is loose already, or there's something wrong with my steering rack. And both upper control arms have cracked bushings. already. ten thousand miles, eight months?

Powerflex bushings on-hand, not yet in the car. tie rods tbd. New rims and tires tbd. a neverending (and expensive) story for sure. wish Toyota or Honda would come up with something interesting.
 
#119 ·
Hey dbruce,

Fixing the bushings did essentially eliminate the extra vibrations after hitting "transverse ridges", and also greatly reduced tramlining. The front ones were badly cracked; rears less so. ~100k miles.

Oh, by the way, I rebuilt my front end last fall, using one of FCP Groton's rebuild kits. Either one tie rod end is loose already, or there's something wrong with my steering rack. And both upper control arms have cracked bushings. already. ten thousand miles, eight months?

Powerflex bushings on-hand, not yet in the car. tie rods tbd. New rims and tires tbd. a neverending (and expensive) story for sure. wish Toyota or Honda would come up with something interesting.
I used the FCP stuff also.....but the upper were Karlyn. I haven't checked them all yet.....but I didn't do the Tie rods during the install and that was a big mistake. I plan on using Powerflex bushings....since I have to deal with the Tie rods anyway.

The front suspension is a big puzzle.....one piece is slightly out of whack and everything else amplifies the issue. If your feeling jolts through the steering...I'd take bets on a tie rod issue.....doubt it's the rack.
 
#120 ·
The front suspension is a big puzzle.....one piece is slightly out of whack and everything else amplifies the issue. If your feeling jolts through the steering...I'd take bets on a tie rod issue.....doubt it's the rack.
Very true.

Just did front wheel bearings and new Koni sports. Can tell the bushings [FCP and Karlyn too] aren't gonna locate the now stiffer MacPherson strut very well. Oh well ... was going to Powerflex eventually ... now a little sooner.

Love to see pics of how your homemade rear carrier bushing removal tool held up.

Thanks.
 
#121 ·
Ok....all you happy Touring owners with crappy subframe bushings......I bought the AFT47:

http://franklin-tools.co.uk/acatalog/index.html

My plan is to bring it to ICS in Stamford and get a new quote on how much to do the work.....without pulling the subframe. The previous quote was 850 with no parts....and included installing new Tie rods. Total would have been 1200 or so at least.

http://www.icsperformance.com/

The tool cost me $450 shipped out of England. If I can find enough people running around ICS that want the work done.....I can just sell it to him (I'm taking bets on that) or get my money back sending it around.

In any case........I should have the tool in a week or so. Once that's done.........I'll post with what I'm going to do with it. If you're in the NYC, CT or NJ areas and once I get a quote from ICS on the install, are willing to let them handle it......let me know. With enough people...they will probably just pass the tool cost on.

Let me know.
 
#122 ·
Look back through this thread or another one on here where it was discussed that FT wouldn't sell / ship to US customers. Another poster mentioned that they spoke with Baum tools and they either were getting the tool made or would be able to sell it here in the USA shortly.

If FT has changed their polices ... even better. :)
 
#123 · (Edited)
I found an Ebay seller that had a recommend a price sale and priced it at 226 pounds with 36 shipping. He had another sale without the recommend option for 210 or so with 26 shipping.

I put in a recommend for 190 with 36 shipping....or 450 US total and he will ship it in 3 days to my door.

If they do begin selling in the US.....pricing would be similar. Since I'm planning on having my entire suspension redone shortly......waiting for it to be for sale over here isn't in the cards......not to mention if it cuts a few hundred off the install costs............I'll already be pretty close to break even.

The poster who wanted to ship it themselves didn't have the discounted shipping...so it would have been at least 50 pounds to ship it over.
 
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