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Former 5er guy now with Audi comparison

16K views 138 replies 43 participants last post by  The X Men 
#1 · (Edited)
Before I begin I want to start by saying how great the people on this forum are. No disrespect at all intended, thank you all for your input and advice!

At the end of my fellowship at Yale I started to look for a new car. It would be my first real nice car. Previously I drove SAABs because of my connection with GM discounts. In retrospect SAABs were really fantastic and I was so lucky to drive such nice cars during residency.

I originally was looking at an E92 sport with manual. My girlfriend at the time, now my wife, convincent me that I should go for a 5 series because I was a big guy (6'4''). Best decision I ever made. Did a ED with the perfect E60, sport, manual, hifi, nasca leather, ventilated seats, etc. Loved that car. But....Had to turn it in after 2 years. Wish I did a 3 year on that baby!

So I did another ED, moved to the midwest and took advantage of the great deals on E93 M3 vert. Beautiful car, white with full fox red. but so impractical for me at the time. Swap a leased it after 9 months. After that ordered a 2011 F10 550x msport. WORST CAR EVER. Drove like a pig. hated it. even my wife would say, its so luxuries, but not sporty at all. The supposed comfort seats were a huge step back from the E60, so disappointed in fellow festers telling people how good the seats are on the new F10.

So, finally I got rid of that car after a year.

Took a trip to the dark side. Bought, not leased, a A7. Phantom black, Prestige, 20' Sport, Bang and Olufsen, and Technology (cruise, night vision, HUD, etc)

Wow! what a car. feels just as fast as the 550 but handles WAAAAAAAY better. No boat like feeling. Love the dynamic cruise. Best option on the car besides the Band and Olufsen which sound incredible.

Now the driving part. The Audi schools the F10 left and right, up and down. No question. It feels 90% of the E60. All of the audi setting feel great. The best part....If you like sport, the car stays in sport when you start in up. All settings remain, including seat and wheel heaters. Why can't bmw do that?

Now there is the emotional part. My wife nailed if perfectly, the car is perfect...but its not a BMW. Its underlying parts still feel weak, like its a volkswagon. I can't wait for BmW to fix its problems (steering, handling, seating) and I want to come back. Please fix this on the LCI. SEATS EXCPECIALY. we need the side bolsters back. Those that praise the crap F10 comfort seats have no idea how goood seats can be.

Keep Bimmering my Friends,
MR
 
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#53 · (Edited)
Ofcourse, discussion closed...
End of Bimmerfest threads filled with apples and pears......

Stll I prefer a BMW 5 Touring over any Audi product for the same budget.
But that is me, to everyone else his own.
Oh, I have to admit...
I have been looking at a pana, these cars cost a fortune overhere, so not easy comparable to a 5 series BMW, but I am developing in likings and taste, there is a red color available, the car looks, I know, it is difficult to say; quite nice. :rolleyes:
 
#54 · (Edited)
I can't wait for BmW to fix its problems (steering, handling, seating) and I want to come back. Please fix this on the LCI. SEATS EXCPECIALY. we need the side bolsters back. Those that praise the crap F10 comfort seats have no idea how goood seats can be.

Keep Bimmering my Friends,
MR
Interesting, but you have no credibility. The A7's steering is more numb than the F10's.

Don't get carried away with mags. One of them has to face the embarrassment, and then run around circles trying to justify themselves: see posts #1 and #2 http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=789625
 
#61 ·
The A8 has a really nice interior but it's too "techy" and busy looking for my tastes. I like a little more "classic theme" to my styles.

Call me crazy but I think not only does the F10 have the nicest interior on the BMW lineup (that includes the F01 and new 6-Series), but IMO it has one of the nicest interior in the world, especially when you option a few key things out right.

And that's something I was saying and thinking even when I had my W212.
 
#63 ·
The A8 has a really nice interior but it's too "techy" and busy looking for my tastes. I like a little more "classic theme" to my styles.

Call me crazy but I think not only does the F10 have the nicest interior on the BMW lineup (that includes the F01 and new 6-Series), but IMO it has one of the nicest interior in the world, especially when you option a few key things out right.

And that's something I was saying and thinking even when I had my W212.
When you say nicest interior, if you mean the nicest material for its class and built quality, then I agree. If you mean interior design, then I find BMW's interior pretty boring, they al look the same and the design is very conservative.
 
#67 · (Edited)
I remember being not nice to capo about his GT, but man it is in the same dark spot as is the A7.

A lot of members overhere have praised over and over again the S5, I like that car too.
BUT.
For that money I would prefer owning a M3 and compairing the S5 with the F10 is compairing a peanut to a wallnut.
AND.
The only A6 that is worth the trouble of looking at has got AWD and a 3ltr tfsi engine, that is a fine engine, but the rest of such a car is less than any BMW in the same budget class.
So yes I prefer a BMW over any Audi for the same amount of money.
 
#70 ·
. . . Wow! what a car. feels just as fast as the 550 but handles WAAAAAAAY better. . . The Audi schools the F10 left and right, up and down. No question. It feels 90% of the E60. . . MR
Not sure of the point of this posting. Perhaps the OP is looking for reassurance that he did the right thing? :dunno:

Might have made more sense to compare the A7 on the 6-series thread. 90% of an E60? That's not much of recommendation for many of us who prefer our F10's to our previous E60's. It all comes down to personal preferences.

Certainly caused a lot of discussion, though. And yep, you did good. Like the F10 the A7 is certainly a nice ride.
 
#73 ·
It seems to be mainly three camps here.

1. Drivers who put luxury first. Many are coming from other brands since they found the E60 lacking in one or several of: ride quality, interior and exterior styling. They want as much sportiness as possible as longs it doesn't compromise luxury. This group has found heaven in the F10.

2. Drivers who put sportiness first. The E60 was the only car in it's segment who did this. These drivers often wants luxury as long as it doesn't compromise sportiness. Most of this group comes from an E60 with sport suspension. This group is often dissapointed in the F10.

3. Drivers who has experienced quality issues with early build F10's.
 
#76 ·
3. Drivers who has experienced quality issues with early build F10's.[/QUOTE]

I have a 2011 550ix january build and have had zero issues....but then again I haven't driven a 2013 to compare it to.
 
#77 · (Edited)
3. Drivers who has experienced quality issues with early build F10's.
I have a 2011 550ix january build and have had zero issues....but then again I haven't driven a 2013 to compare it to.
Makes sense since I meant early MY 2011. If your's is a January build it's not an early 2011 MY. The early most problematic 2011's were built in summer 2010. And you have hydraulic steering which haven't had the myriad of steering issues. You should be fine.
 
#79 ·
I may be the only person in the world who doesn't mind the pop up Nav.
 
#80 ·
Yep, you are the only one. I'd be okay with it if it were just the nav. But the way they are designed today you will be driving with it up all the time. Makes no sense to me. :dunno:
 
#81 · (Edited)
I would like to put my 2 cents in. I have a E30 in my garage that I have owned for many many years. I am fully aware how older BMW's drove back in the day.

I currently own a 2013 550i M Sport. My previous car was a 2003 Mercedes W215 CL600, V12 Biturbo. This was like a fine cigar and had a cockpit of a Lear jet. It had so much power and torque few could compare (at the time). This car was probably the most expensive car to maintain on the market (3 years maintenance and repairs cost me around 34K). Having said that, it was a blast to own and drive.

I sold it and spent the next 7 months test driving and researching what car I want next. Mercedes seemed a bit too Japanese in styling for my book. Though, I really liked the C63 AMG, the power of my previous V12 had me spoiled. And, the AMG sounded amazing. But, there was no heads up display, the screen was small, the technology (not engine) was not as advanced as BMW, the seats were not comfortable.

So, I went and test drove other cars including the Audi S5 and A7. The S7 was about to be released and there wasn't one for me to test drive. I liked the S5 but it was not as fun as the C63 or the M3. The Google mapping seems cluttered. I found the burp note in the exhaust interesting but not as satisfying as the AMG exhaust. The M3 exhaust was ok, but the shifting and handling of the M3 was top notch but not enough room for my needs. The A7.... I like the styling of this car. I personally found the power a bit lacking for my personal taste. Remember, the V12 had me spoiled. After test driving the Audi I was pleased but when I got out of the car there was smoke coming from out of the driver's side rear tire well. I had not even driven the car really hard. This left a leery feeling in my gut and the only thing that I really liked was the wood grain interior and fancy lights.

I found the 5 and 6 series without M packages rather boring looking and the face (bumper) reminded me of a big catfish. After seeing what I could do with options, power, and cost I decided that the 550i with M sport, heads up display, bang and olufsen sound system, seats, carbon fiber extras, woven aluminum trim, black rims and amount technology integration was the best looking, most fun bang for my buck.

I have driven the car 1500 miles and have not had any steering issues at all. Its actually enjoyable to drive. I wish the exhaust was more aggressive, but all in all I really am enjoying the car so far.
 
#86 · (Edited)
While I prefer an integrated nav. screen I don't see a popup as a reason to not buy a car. It's pretty far down on my list. The A7 like The A6 is however lacking something like the OP also remarks on. It's not easy to pinpoint, the steering is part of it but there is something more that a sporty BMW or Porsche has that just isn't there. It's dissapointing since I had hoped Audi would have gone all out when BMW let the guard down, but they didn't or maybe couldn't.
 
#87 · (Edited)
Some people don't want to let go of the past...

The era of the E60 is over, folks. The current 5-series is not a sports car anymore, but a sporty luxury car. In certain incarnations, a very fast sporty luxury car.

You want a mid-sized sporty BMW today? Look into the 6-series. I know the cost can be an issue.

Why are we still making comparisons of the F10 to E60? The same goes for F10 to A7. Apples to oranges.
 
#90 · (Edited)
Some people don't want to let go of the past...

The era of the E60 is over, folks. The current 5-series is not a sports car anymore, but a sporty luxury car. In certain incarnations, a very fast sporty luxury car.

You want a mid-sized sporty BMW today? Look into the 6-series. I know the cost can be an issue.

Why are we still making comparisons of the F10 to E60? Apples to oranges. The same goes for A7 to F10.
From the specs the 6GC seems not to be very different from the F10 dynamically. I don't think we heard much comparisons from people with significant seat time in both. I'm curious to hear more about the difference in feel if you happen to be one who has? I've not driven the 6GC but it would have to be as good or better than the Panny for me to consider it at the price they are asking.
 
#91 ·
I see the F10 as the evolution of the expanded BMW product offerings. By offering the 1, that has in a way become the new 3. The new F30 3, which is pretty big, I'm sure bigger than the E39, and has most of the high end options available in it, has slotted itself as the new 5, more or less. The F10 is now the 7, and the 7 is the uber 7. One look inside the F01 and F10 confirms the similarities.
 
#92 ·
I've now written a couple of posts about my disappointment with my 2011550ix Sport Dinan stage 2. I've been driving BMW's all my life. Over 30 years. I've been a huge fan. At one time in my life I had a dedicated race set up 2002. No more. This car is NOT The Ultimate Driving Machine. That's a joke. It's certainly the best handling boat I've ever driven. It's fast without question. So was my E55 Mercedes, when I owned one of those. I sold it because it didn't handle like a BMW. It was simply fast. Well, that's what this car is. Simply fast. That's it. The faulty engine light which has sent me to the dealer now at least 6 times is the end of the road. I have a year left on the lease of this pig, so I went to the Audi dealer to see if I could work out something. Never thought in my dreams I'd be at an Audi dealer. Well, thanks to BMW pushing me there, I've now arrived.

Think about this one, boys....the Audi dealer called on Friday and said he should be able to swap me out on an S7, for the same lease payment as my current car. He'll take my car, and I'll be done with it's issues. Have you seen the S7? In person? It's a beautiful car. The interior is miles ahead of anything BMW has. Every review has it out handling the 550. Even the M5 in one review I read. I'm with the guy who started this thread. I love BMW's. It just seems that BMW no longer loves the drivers that put them where they are. They love Lexus drivers and Mercedes drivers. I hope they'll all be happy together. In the meantime, I'll keep monitoring BMW in hopes they find their way back.
 
#94 ·
I've now written a couple of posts about my disappointment with my 2011550ix Sport Dinan stage 2. I've been driving BMW's all my life. Over 30 years. I've been a huge fan. At one time in my life I had a dedicated race set up 2002. No more. This car is NOT The Ultimate Driving Machine. That's a joke. It's certainly the best handling boat I've ever driven. It's fast without question. So was my E55 Mercedes, when I owned one of those. I sold it because it didn't handle like a BMW. It was simply fast. Well, that's what this car is. Simply fast. That's it. The faulty engine light which has sent me to the dealer now at least 6 times is the end of the road. I have a year left on the lease of this pig, so I went to the Audi dealer to see if I could work out something. Never thought in my dreams I'd be at an Audi dealer. Well, thanks to BMW pushing me there, I've now arrived.

Think about this one, boys....the Audi dealer called on Friday and said he should be able to swap me out on an S7, for the same lease payment as my current car. He'll take my car, and I'll be done with it's issues. Have you seen the S7? In person? It's a beautiful car. The interior is miles ahead of anything BMW has. Every review has it out handling the 550. Even the M5 in one review I read. I'm with the guy who started this thread. I love BMW's. It just seems that BMW no longer loves the drivers that put them where they are. They love Lexus drivers and Mercedes drivers. I hope they'll all be happy together. In the meantime, I'll keep monitoring BMW in hopes they find their way back.
I hope you don't abandon bimmerfest as well. I for one is curious about the S7 so please check back with a review once you have some seat time.
 
#93 ·
I can understand your disappointment if you are referring to below, but not your posts about car mag comparisons.

Before I begin, please note that this is not my second post. I have a new screen name because my last one, which I have used over the last 2 years won't let me on any longer. No idea why. Maybe the password is an issue for some reason. It was "bikerboy".

However, that is not the issue. The issue is the DRIVETRAIN MALFUNCTION. I had my car in 3 times last week!...and that's not the first time for this issue. It's probably the 5th or 6th. My service guy appears disgusted that after 20 years of dealing with me and my cars, it has come down to this. He tells me that BMW is having fuel injector issues on all cars that have V8's. 5, 6 and 7.

You know what.....if they are, then recall them and put in new ones instead of having us drive our cars on freeways, possibly hundreds of miles from home, and you get a DRIVETRAIN MALFUNCTION light going on and your car begins to run like ****. I hope you all realize that the scenario I just wrote is very possible for any of you. The solution then would be to call a tow truck in the middle of nowhere and have it towed to the dealer, hundreds of miles away. Great!

THIS IS MY LAST BMW. I have been driving them since 1973. I'm done. If I have a client meeting 100 miles away, or have to be in court (I'm a lawyer) half way up the state and my car does this again (which is likely) I'm in serious trouble.

Unfortunately I have 1 year left on my lease. If I'd have bought the car, it'd be up for sale on Monday morning. Not sure what I can do now. Those of you who have these cars and love them....good luck. I've been their biggest fan for 40 years. A 1973 BMW 2002 was my first new car. I haven't abandoned them, they've abandoned me. Literally.
 
#102 ·
The F10 was not the car I thought it was going to be coming right out of the e60. I did think that overall it was a BETTER car than the E60 however, owing to the fit and finish, interior, technology, road feel on the highways and comfort. I was very happy with my F10 while I had it, save for the terrible RFT issue that is unfortunately a feature that we will have to all deal with in the future. lucky us

I said it a bunch of times, my F10 was 75% of the E60 in the twisties and 150% of it on the highway. YMMV

Of course the main issue is that owning a BMW is about the je ne sais quoi isn***8217;t it? That feeling you get when you see an S curve in front of you. If you are left wanting because you are in an F10 in that situation, many understand. has any company slogan been closer to the truth? the ultimate driving machine? has that dimmed with the intro of the F10/F01/F30?? i don't know. I think it's too soon to tell, but i don't feel so great about it.

and bm232, re: number steering in M3. come on man
 
#123 · (Edited)
I think BMW should really retire their slogan, the ultimate driving machine.
I would think it is the ultimate (or near ultimate :)) for the present "comparable" version, eg not comparing a 3 series vs 5 or a 2 seater against the 5, or a 5 series 2 generations back against the present 5 :) you may wish to check out the M135i whether it is also the ultimate against a "comparable" car.

A "comparable" Audi btw, is not the ultimate due to its numb steering :D
 
#104 ·
I've owned neither brand in the past and I drove both this weekend. Preferred the Audi. Interesting to me is that neither car is a "driver's" sports sedan rather they are well executed executive cars with many positives at the $65k +/- price point. I liked Audi's lack of hesitation vs the 5 but that is probably a minor point in the grand scheme of things. BMW had better steering feel but didn't handle as well. I could go on... If someone really wanted a true sports sedan, they would get the M or the S in the respective brands. And each is up to the task. Or the 3, which is a helluva car. To argue about "better" for this class of car seems pointless since neither will be at the track or the 'ring.
 
#105 ·
#109 ·
Congrats to the OP on his new Audi. Each person has their opinion.

I had 1 98 C4 quattro and two C5 A6 quattros (bought new). These cars were in the shop left and right. Service was bad.

Audis really lose value quickly. Lease rates are horrible. But, I like them--but not enough to go to them over BMW. And the posts about it looking like a dog taking a dump is classic.

I looked at one before getting my 550...no way. It was cheaper than my 550 and definitely felt cheaper. Its ride was harsh. It is no 550 with adj. suspension.

Outside of that, it's a nice car. Not uncommon for some long term followers drop a car and go off the reservation.

I've had far more luck in terms of quality with BMW than any Audi or MB product.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Congrats to the OP on his new Audi. Each person has their opinion.

I've had far more luck in terms of quality with BMW than any Audi or MB product.
My sentiments exactly! In terms of quality regarding the vehicles I've owned the order is as follows: Lexus, BMW, Audi, and Lancia...actually, there should be an "*" next to Lancia because it was so poor in quality and reliability that it was more dead-weight than car! I don't include the Panamera on this list because I've only owned it for about 6 months. So far, though, it seems to be keeping pace with the BMWs I've owned. Anyway, the point is we buy (or lease) what we buy for various reasons...fun quotient, reliability, affordability, keeping up with the Joneses, etc....and that's the way it's supposed to be. Satisfaction is getting your money's worth; whatever that translates into. I don't necessarily agree with generalizations regarding cars, like "the worst ever", unless we're talking about Lancias or Yugos, which ARE generally regarded as some of the worst ever!:) However, I think when we do make such generalizations, typically, those statements are perceived by those on the receiving end as de-valuing in some form or fashion and, consequently, are personalized. Cars and car ownership is so much a part of the American experience that sometimes I think the Bill of Rights should be expanded to include a related Amendment. That is to say that we LOVE our cars. In this connection, I am sure there are some of us here that once owned what could be objectively described as a rolling pile of junk that, nonetheless, was as dear to us as a family member...and that's the point! We view most things through our own prism and I think that needs to be considered when we offer any type of critiques. The only other point worth mentioning is that it is often perilous to those who come to a car brand forum offering a "versus thread" suggesting that a vehicle which does not conform to the brand that the forum represents may be superior. It strikes me that the only times that something like this would be legitimate, and perceived as fair, are when objective data is used to make the point. [For example, how one's seat feels in a seat is not an objective standard.:)]
 
#113 ·
He's probably trying to determine whether any of the A5's DNA is discernable in the 4 Series!:D
 
#117 ·
I'm still enjoying it very much...thanks! Quality-wise, I would put it on par with every BMW I've owned; which is to say that it's meeting all of my expectations. As for value, I could not be happier since I purchased it "slightly used" (1025 on the odometer) at a little over $20K off the original sticker. We'll see how that holds-up when the time comes for me to move on to something else.
 
#119 · (Edited)
Performance is not the issue with the F10 imo. All the competitors in this segment makes cars that are fast enough in pretty much any situation on the road. The issue for me is the feel. Some like a very tight, communicative and agile car. This often comes with trade-offs in terms of ride quality and luxury. Others prefer a smoother more luxurious and forgiving ride with all luxury bells and whistles, this often means trade-off in terms of agility and chassi comunication. Both types can be viscously fast on the road, outright track performance has little to do with it, even if optimal track performance and sporty feel often goes hand-in-hand.
 
#120 ·
Well said, you nail it.
I think you like the more tight car, like the M3, I understand what you are talking about.
I drive long distances on European highways, the F11 is better at that than my E61 was.
Long fast highway cruises, this car is a marvel at that.
The 250hp/540nm is ample the suspension perfect, fast traveling at modest consumption, passing Amsterdam, Antwerp, Lille, Paris and Beaune on one tank@120 km/hr is no exception.
No stops so a good chair and nice steering wheel with the silent behaviour of the car, it is just outstanding.
Not saying any bad of the M3, but for these trips I prefer my oil burner. :)
 
#135 ·
Luxury was not always BMW primary goal. Just look at their bread and butter model, the 3 series, the E46 and E90 are hardly luxury sedans. Fast forward to the F30, its now more of a luxury sedan than a sport sedan, much like the rest of the BMW line up's latest offering.

solstice, my point about the suspension was that It is harder to design a suspension that can both handle well and provide ride comfort than just an all out sport suspension that lacks ride comfort or a soft suspension that does not handle well. In my option, the F10's current suspension set up is has a very good combo of comfort and soprtiness. Just because it is not the sportiest suspension, that doesnt mean its not advance.
 
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