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Auto Start/Stop Option

14K views 132 replies 30 participants last post by  boltjaM3s 
#1 ·
Questions about the Auto start/Stop option and I feel this deserves it's own post:

1. When you asked the service guys to enable "last user mode" for the auto start/stop option, is there a cost associated with the update?

2. What do Manual F30 drivers think of this option? Do they too find it annoying like those who have automatics? I would assume it would be less of a problem in manuals.
 
#2 ·
I only drove my 335i for 5 days for ED but I bounced all around Germany and Austria. I liked the feature. It was a little hard to get used to but when I got back here I missed it. It started when you put the clutch in or move the steering wheel. My fear is the ware on the starter.

Sent from my MB860 using Bimmer App
 
#3 ·
Paul, you said you missed it. Did you have them disable it? Or talking about missing it on a different car?

Unrelated ED question: How do you deal with the break in restrictions while driving on he autobahns? :)
 
#4 ·
Questions about the Auto start/Stop option and I feel this deserves it's own post:

1. When you asked the service guys to enable "last user mode" for the auto start/stop option, is there a cost associated with the update?
It is a free update that takes 4-5 hours.

My dealer did not know about the bulletin until I forwarded them a Bimmerfest post and made them read it. Few minutes later, the service manager comes out and tells me I was right and they'll be happy to do it.

Probably getting it done this Tuesday or Wednesday and I'll be rid of the hassle forever. In certain situations it's simply not safe for the car or the driver.

BJ
 
#6 ·
So just to be clear, if you get this update, you can still activate auto start/stop by hitting that button above start, right? The car just remembers the previous state of this feature when started.
 
#10 ·
This is a tangent. Back in the day folks used to say, if you are going to be re-starting the car within a minute or so, best to leave it on cuz starting consumes more gas than idling. Was that just a misnomer?
 
#19 ·
I would assume it would be less of a problem in manuals.
I have a stick and don't think it is a problem. Push the clutch and the car starts. You wouldn't be moving forward until after that anyhow, so ASS does not cause a delay. If you are waiting to turn in heavy traffic, just keep your foot on the clutch (which you would do anyhow) and the car will not turn off. IMHO this feature is less of a concern with MT cars. That is not to say I like it but...
 
#28 ·
i have to agree with this. My initial test drives with a 2012 335 and 2012 328i and both manual transmissions (actually i drove the manual cars on two separate occasions) i didn't even think about the system. And honestly I can't tell you if the engine ever shut off because sometimes i do tend to drive with the clutch and first gear in at a light that i know is about to change.

I did notice this system with the auto on my USA BMW drive and it was annoying to me. I just drove the luxury 335i they had (they had a sport but the wait was another half hour) and not the 328i. One other guy however coming out of a 328i, I asked him well how do you like it. His response was love it, but man this engine shutdown on a light kind of sucks. Again that was an auto.
 
#23 ·
Anyone knows if there is a way to ask BMW if ASS causes damage to any parts of the car? I would assume they have given this a lot of thought and have an answer. Perhaps one of the dealers knows how to get in touch with them.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I'll have the Last Mode implemented on my car for sure. See no reason for Auto Stop/Start. The fuel savings are too small for me to be concerned about using it.

And yes, I'll have a manual this would only happen I'm stopped at a light and out of gear. Doesn't matter. My mother-in-law has a prius and I dislike the feature after years of driving that tub. Found it pretty awful in BMW's application too.
 
#31 ·
There is nothing that an individual in a car in the United States can do to help the carbon footprint issue. It's factories in China and lack of pollution controls in Indonesia and most of Asia that are the primary culprits.

TV commercials and Al Gore DVD's don't tell the real story.

BJ
 
#34 ·
Every penny counts. If a large number of drivers did their bit, that would naturally lead to a high impact on emission levels. Again, BMW doesn't make this mandatory. If you don't like ASS, you can have it disabled - where is the problem in giving people the option of being socially responsible while saving a couple of bucks? I will probably use ASS about 50% of the time which means I'm doing my bit without really even doing anything. Nothing wrong with that.
 
#43 ·
Hey is there a way to block posts from specific members, like boltjaM3s?

boltjaM3s, you should "talk" to someone rather than let your anger out on this forum where people have come to learn about cars.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Respectfully, you are the one preaching about eco-friendliness in an enthusiasts forum dedicated to performance. Stop trying to make us feel bad because we aren't consumed with saving money or reducing pollution. It's great that those causes mean a lot to you, don't be surprised if you get feedback from those who wholeheartedly disagree.

Go to one of my posts, next to my avatar image click on my username. The last option on the list is "ignore this user".

BJ
 
#45 ·
I am planning to have my dealer code for the last user mode for auto start/stop before pickup. I have in the past quite frequently railed against people complaining about this feature. However after some thought, I would appreciate the peace of mind which comes from being able to turn it off before letting my 65 year old father borrow the car. I don't need that phone call from the side of the road where he thinks something is wrong with the car.

I do however plan to use it personally. My one lane, no turns commute to work, with at least 10 stop lights is perfect for this feature.
 
#54 ·
However after some thought, I would appreciate the peace of mind which comes from being able to turn it off before letting my 65 year old father borrow the car. I don't need that phone call from the side of the road where he thinks something is wrong with the car.
This is a good point, not just with ASS but with several features on the F30. I often have friends and relatives from overseas staying at my house and normally I have no problem with them using my car. But with the F30 you have the Comfort Access/Odd Shifter/ASS/even the turn signal stalk operates differently to most cars...when my eldest brother comes for vacation I'm hiring a car for him... :eek:
 
#69 ·
#72 ·
The X Men Its not a personal insult at all, all I am saying is that if you can get easily confuse by the simple system like the ASS system, you should probably drive a lower tech car. I think many on this have already suggested a Camry as your daily driver, but your idea of a Kia as youe DD is a good idea as well.

Again, I understand the technology. I just have no use for it as it's useless tech designed to make the gullible think they're doing something environmentally-friendly, so they can tell their friends "I'm green" at cocktail parties.

If you think the ASS system does not reduce pollution, why dont you try sucking on your tail pipe for a 30 seconds and you will realized how much pollutant the ASS system is eliminating at every stop light.

Again, get educated. A pack-a-day cigarette smoker is a bigger threat to the environment than a German luxury car driver. Right now less than 1% of all cars on the road have ASS technology. It's not a conversation for 2013. It's just a way for BMW to sell cars to the granola crowd.

If you need quick accelaration and you are too lazy or too forgetful to shift to the DS mode, that is your own fault and not a BMW safety issue. If you need quick accelaration, you should be in DS to begin with. For a self proclaim car enthusiast, you sure are not very in tune with your car.

When I'm trying to get across a crowded intersection in an automatic, the last thing I need is to figure out how to shift in DS mode. I've used DS mode once in my life and it was only because I was coming down a mountain and needed to keep the car locked in second gear for engine braking purposes.

Not sure what your issue is anymore. I'm getting my ASS shut down on Wednesday, problem solved for me. I worry about Mr. & Mrs. Camry when these technologies go mainstream as they're the ones who will get t-boned at an intersection.

BJ
 
#73 ·
When I'm trying to get across a crowded intersection in an automatic, the last thing I need is to figure out how to shift in DS mode. I've used DS mode once in my life and it was only because I was coming down a mountain and needed to keep the car locked in second gear for engine braking purposes.
Now I understand your problem with the ASS system, you do not know the difference between the DS mode and the manual shift mode :) :rofl: :cry:
 
#75 ·
I agree, the US produce more pollution per capita than Indonesia, India, China or any third world nations and the internal combusion engine is the number cuase of CO2 emission, in the U.S. 60% of carbon monoxide is caused by on road vehicles.
I get a good chuckle when Americans like BJ who think they are doing their part for the environment by donating money when poor kids come to their door, or by separating their recyclables on pickup day and sending their kids to the country club on cleanup day.
 
#78 ·


You are talking strictly about CO2 emissions, and in the US 90% of CO2 emissions have nothing to do with my automobile. "Transportation" as a category includes all the buses, trains, trucks, airplanes, and ocean cargo as well. The rest have to do with Electricity, Industry, Chemical Plants, etc.

Let me know when you intend to stop buying products at malls, when you intend to put solar panels on your house, when you stop using FedEx, and when you stop using deodorant. Then you can challenge my lack of interest in ASS.

BJ
 
#76 ·
You guys (BJ & Xmen) are both wrong. BMW added the ASS function to ge their CAFE numbers as low as possible. Same reason for the switch to turbo 4's. They as a company could care less about gas mileage or environmental impact. But the govt and consumers do, so like a good company that wants to stay in business and make a lot of money, they do what they need to do.
 
#79 · (Edited)
Cars are a major cause of pollution as are many aspects of modern life. There is little that we do that does not generate some form of pollution ande as a city dweller I am sure I contribute a significant amount whether I like it or not.

Over the last 50 years or so the US has done a lot to eliminate a lot of sources of pollution but there is still a long way to go,
If you live in a congested area like I do you get used to pollution, whether it is air pollution or noise pollution and you learn to ignore it but it is still there.

There are some interseting facts about car polution here:

http://www.evsroll.com/Car_pollution_facts.html

One intestesting fact is that in the US idling in traffic uses over 8 million gallons of gasoline per day. Exactly what percentage of the total amount of gas burned each day I do not know. Cars also polute in other way such as leaving particles of rubber on the road as tires wear out. At one point when cars were using asbestos brake linings Asbestosis was an occupational hazard of toll booth attendants as the air in the toll plazas was polluted by the asbestos particles that were genated as the cars entering the plaza came to a stop.

I have not driven a car with automatic start stop but it is probably like RFTs and Electric Power Steering, new technologies that are a good idea and will probably be in all cars in the future but that require a bit more development.

CA
 
#80 · (Edited)
bradlexxxxx said:
We just recently took delivery of a 2013 X2 28i with the new N20 engine; also equipped with ASS (not sure on the generation). The problem I have with ASS is three fold:

1) If you drive around town where there are a lot of stop signs, you end up experiencing a whole lot of stop-start action. At a stop sign, you only stop briefly. If you're obeying the law, you come to a complete stop, which means you must wait for the car to "settle". If you combine this with taking just a moment to check for oncoming traffic in both directions, you end up with a very brief stop-start cycle that is very apparent from the passenger area (the whole car shudders). My father insisted that something was wrong with our brand new car after experiencing it only one time.

2) Even if the first matter is simply an annoyance, I have now experienced more than one occasion where the engine failed to start in these abrupt engagements. This left the car in D, unable to restart until you follow a specific procedure: apply brake, engage P, press start button. This procedure seems simple, but when you're sitting in traffic trying to figure out why your car isn't moving when you press the gas pedal, it's incredibly frustrating.

3) The stop-start procedure is disruptive to the passengers in our X3 with the 8-speed auto transmission. When the engine disengages, I can feel the car settle back. When it restarts (often triggered while I'm still stopped because of climate control needs), I can feel the car lunge forward. It's unsettling and elicits strange looks from the people around me at the signal light. Call me self-conscious, but I really don't want people staring at me at signal lights because my car keeps turning on and off.
sekxxx said:
It interferes with my regular driving because my car has stalled twice in traffic the first three weeks I've had the car. I now always shut it off when I start my car. To me, getting slightly better gas mileage does not equate with the possibility of not knowing when I'll have to manually restart the engine but knowing for sure that sooner or later, I will. That possibility occurs not because of anything I've done but because the manufacturer has provided a feature that defaults to a system that occasionally fails to work.

I know that pushing a button to override this feature when I start the car is no big deal. But I do know that I shouldn't even have to do that. For that reason, I definitely want the update to the last user mode.
Frogxxx said:
I found that I was dreading coming to a stop to see how much the engine would shake the car when ASS stops the engine. Sometimes it's as smooth as silk and I think hey, this is great, and then other times it's so violent that I think the engine is going to rip itself out of the mounts. Plus, as was said before, the car lurches when this happens and everyone it the cars feels it.

Same on restart; sometimes it's really smooth, and other times it's really rough. No real pattern.

Then, once, I was in a intersection ASS stalled the engine on restart.

I was stopped in the intersection, ASS kicked in, I let my foot off the brake, and the engine stalled. The iDrive bings with a fault saying that ASS failed, I had to scramble to re-press the brake, push the start button, then press the throttle to go and end up just reving the engine. Looked at the shifter and realized that the car put itself in NEUTRAL! My adrenaline is pumping like crazy while I selected drive while getting honked at by people behind me. This is not something I want to repeat and definitely not something I want my wife to deal with!

So, I coded my car to remember the last ASS setting and I leave the dang thing off; I couldn't be happier. I don't worry about my engine stalling or shaking, or lurching any more.

If BMW can address these issues, I'd be the first to re-enable ASS, but not the way it works now.
lawxxxx said:
Wow, this is crazy. And this isn't the first story I've heard like this. It's only by sheer provenance no one has been seriously injured or killed due to this. The fact that they have to program in a message that says "A.S.S. failed" means it shouldn't even be an option. If this were to happen at an intersection in which you are on a slight downhill you may find yourself rolled into the middle of the intersection trying to figure out what's wrong with the car.

BTW, if they can figure this out on golf carts why can't they do it on a $50k car?
The above conversation is from another BMW forum.

Frightening.

BJ
 
#82 ·
Definitely sounds like a feature that is not ready for prime time.

I have to go to BMW Manhattan for routine service tomorrow. I assume there will be an F30 or two there for me to check out,

CA
 
#81 ·
Reminds me of the Daniel Stern/James Reeves DRL argument

This discussion reminds me of an infamous "discussion" about Daytime Running Lights and one reason they shouldn't be mandated.

Assume that every car in the US was mandated to have DRLs. That would use 400,000,000 gallons of gasoline (or diesel for that matter) per year. That's a lot. It works out to about 2 gallons per car per year. It also works out to around 18-20 million barrels of oil per year (accounting for the percentage of gasoline in each barrel of crude.)

We're talking about a small effect. But it is measurable and an estimate of how much it could save. If you're interested in the DRL argument (it also digresses into a top vs. bottom posting argument, sigh): http://www.varioustopics.com/chrysler/505319-one-reason-drls-shouldnt-be-opposed-24.html
 
#83 ·
ASS is weird, no doubt but they just came out with a new update that keeps the ass in the last setting. So, if i turn it off, it will stay off till i turn it back on, that includes turning the car off and back on, ass would still be disabled till i turn it back on.
 
#86 ·
bradlexxxxx said:
We just recently took delivery of a 2013 X2 28i with the new N20 engine; also equipped with ASS (not sure on the generation). The problem I have with ASS is three fold:

1) If you drive around town where there are a lot of stop signs, you end up experiencing a whole lot of stop-start action. At a stop sign, you only stop briefly. If you're obeying the law, you come to a complete stop, which means you must wait for the car to "settle". If you combine this with taking just a moment to check for oncoming traffic in both directions, you end up with a very brief stop-start cycle that is very apparent from the passenger area (the whole car shudders). My father insisted that something was wrong with our brand new car after experiencing it only one time.

2) Even if the first matter is simply an annoyance, I have now experienced more than one occasion where the engine failed to start in these abrupt engagements. This left the car in D, unable to restart until you follow a specific procedure: apply brake, engage P, press start button. This procedure seems simple, but when you're sitting in traffic trying to figure out why your car isn't moving when you press the gas pedal, it's incredibly frustrating.

3) The stop-start procedure is disruptive to the passengers in our X3 with the 8-speed auto transmission. When the engine disengages, I can feel the car settle back. When it restarts (often triggered while I'm still stopped because of climate control needs), I can feel the car lunge forward. It's unsettling and elicits strange looks from the people around me at the signal light. Call me self-conscious, but I really don't want people staring at me at signal lights because my car keeps turning on and off.
sekxxx said:
It interferes with my regular driving because my car has stalled twice in traffic the first three weeks I've had the car. I now always shut it off when I start my car. To me, getting slightly better gas mileage does not equate with the possibility of not knowing when I'll have to manually restart the engine but knowing for sure that sooner or later, I will. That possibility occurs not because of anything I've done but because the manufacturer has provided a feature that defaults to a system that occasionally fails to work.

I know that pushing a button to override this feature when I start the car is no big deal. But I do know that I shouldn't even have to do that. For that reason, I definitely want the update to the last user mode.
Frogxxx said:
I found that I was dreading coming to a stop to see how much the engine would shake the car when ASS stops the engine. Sometimes it's as smooth as silk and I think hey, this is great, and then other times it's so violent that I think the engine is going to rip itself out of the mounts. Plus, as was said before, the car lurches when this happens and everyone it the cars feels it.

Same on restart; sometimes it's really smooth, and other times it's really rough. No real pattern.

Then, once, I was in a intersection ASS stalled the engine on restart.

I was stopped in the intersection, ASS kicked in, I let my foot off the brake, and the engine stalled. The iDrive bings with a fault saying that ASS failed, I had to scramble to re-press the brake, push the start button, then press the throttle to go and end up just reving the engine. Looked at the shifter and realized that the car put itself in NEUTRAL! My adrenaline is pumping like crazy while I selected drive while getting honked at by people behind me. This is not something I want to repeat and definitely not something I want my wife to deal with!

So, I coded my car to remember the last ASS setting and I leave the dang thing off; I couldn't be happier. I don't worry about my engine stalling or shaking, or lurching any more.

If BMW can address these issues, I'd be the first to re-enable ASS, but not the way it works now.
lawxxxx said:
Wow, this is crazy. And this isn't the first story I've heard like this. It's only by sheer provenance no one has been seriously injured or killed due to this. The fact that they have to program in a message that says "A.S.S. failed" means it shouldn't even be an option. If this were to happen at an intersection in which you are on a slight downhill you may find yourself rolled into the middle of the intersection trying to figure out what's wrong with the car.

BTW, if they can figure this out on golf carts why can't they do it on a $50k car?
Bumping this as it fell to the end of Page 1. Multiple F30 owners in another forum reporting unexpected stalls. If you're not going to get the firmware update at the dealer be cautious in using the ASS feature until it's been sorted.

BJ
 
#87 ·
Regardless of your thoughts of how much pollution cars are actually responsible for, manufacturers have a mandate to increase average fuel economy to 35.5mpg by 2016. They're going to do what they have to in order to get there. So, while ASS may be a little ahead of its time and it will likely experience the learning curve BJ mentions (both for the OEMs and for the drivers), it's here to stay. For what it's worth, I'd take ASS over a hybrid or electric car any day.
 
#92 ·
Yes, we all appreciate your love of drama. Most of us would quickly pass out hyperventilating as you do.

It is an incredibly trivial issue to address when it occurs. If you are placing yourself in dangerous driving situations, this is a flaw in the warmware installed between the steering wheel and driver's seat - not a vehicle flaw.

No one suggests stalling is acceptable, and we expect BMW is working on it, but a healthy dose of perspective is appropriate.
 
#93 ·
Thanks Dad.

Not sure where you live, but some of us live in big towns near huge cities and the daily drive is not a slow-moving, relaxed experience. Everyone's in a huge rush, everyone's distracted, no one takes pleasure in driving, everyone's speeding, that's life in the big city. I got my F30 fully aware of ASS and it's upside/downside. I've been living with it for a week now and it's simply not safe for the environment I'm in. So tomorrow morning I'll be the first one getting the code tweak at my local BMW dealership and I won't have the problem anymore. As it stands now, I can't let my wife drive the new car. Tomorrow solves that.

Big picture, there will be problems with the car industry's implementation of this system and they will lead to something tragic. That's not drama; that's just an unfortunate fact. No matter what the car or who the driver, no one expects an engine to stop working as a 'feature', no one has dealt with the potential for a stall for over a decade, and no one is prepared to deal with the steps involved in a re-start if they're under the pressure of cars bearing down on them.

BJ
 
#94 ·
BJ,

I am getting the distinct impression that you don't like the Automatic Start Stop feature.

CA
 
#95 ·
BJ,

I am getting the distinct impression that you don't like the Automatic Start Stop feature.

CA
LOL, yes, good assumption.

My problem is solved tomorrow morning so no worries from me. But I fear for what others will do. You live in Manhattan, you know what it's like, you get the idea. You wait, there's a brief window to make your turn, you hit the gas, and....and....and....that second or two of no-power-time can cause someone to a) miscalculate and not clear the road, b) hesitate and brake and wind up jutting out into the road, or c) stall in the middle of the road.

We've got enough issues and distractions to deal with; we didn't need this one.

BJ
 
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