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Removing TOUGH tree sap

6K views 80 replies 15 participants last post by  SmoothCruise 
#1 ·
I am asking now for some very specific opinions on removing very tough tree sap, obviously without damaging the finish. The question of tree sap removal has been answered by a number of you and I appreciate your responses, but this is not an easy sap to remove. I actually have what I consider very very hard to remove hardened sap on two cars and have already tried 3 products on it and it is still there and I don’t want to rub too hard – since unfortunately I needed to park both cars outside for a few nights:
Turtle Wax Bug and Tar Remover (liquid in can)
Blue Coral Bug and Tar Remover (gel)
Stoner's Tarminator (in spray can)

I am a novice when it comes to cleaning/detailing – compared to members of this forum. I really need to ask what to try next and what will definitively not mar the finish. One car is almost a year old with black metallic paint – the other is a few years old with lighter color. I have already seen that I have rubbed too hard to remove some sap and have seen some swirls and some dulling.

So, what should I try next to remove the sap:
1.Clay bar – any chance at all of damaging the finish by a novice?
2.Some type of diminishing abrasive such as a swirl remover – I already have Meguiar’s #9, 2.0 – but haven’t used it
3. A wax remover
4. Some other product

All responses will be greatly appreciated.
 
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#3 ·
Have I asked this before?

guitarman said:
Haven't we been through this in another thread? Perhaps you should take your car to a professional detailer. :dunno:
Actually in the other thread I was concentrating on wax and got a few opinions on removing the tree sap. Subsequently, I have already tried 3 different Bug/Tar removers to no avail, so I am trying to point out that this is real stubborn stuff that won't come off easily. If you'd prefer, I can post to the other thread. I certainly have listened to everyone's suggestions, but I just don't want to make a mistake since this is not fresh tree sap.

I thought that if I posted with "tree sap" in the title, some others with the same problem may read this.

I'm still not certain about how to interpret your comment. A "professional detailer"? Why would I spend all of this effort trying to solve my problems and then go a "professional detailer"? Also, would they do a better/job and be as careful with my paint job? I think given the right approach, I can most likely solve the problem. I just tend to be very careful and don't want to make a mistake. I am planning to apply Klasse AIO next week, followed by s-100, and want the car ready when I do so. So, I do listen to what people have said.
 
#5 ·
Thanks...

F1Crazy said:
It may be a multi step process for you and it looks like you have it right, even the order :thumbup: Good luck!
If I haven't said so before, I want you to know that I have read and re-read each of your posts carefully and appreciate the time and effort you have put into answering my questions. On the recommendation of you and others in this forum, I have ordered the Klasse AIO, and as you know, I would have preferred to have purchased the item in a store, but ordered this strictly on what I think is very good advice from you and other members of this forum. I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the product.

Thanks!
 
#8 ·
rocky said:
I thought I would:
Wash
Clay bar as necessary
AIO
S-100 wax

Should I polish - if so, when and why?
Polish helps minimize swirls but it would remove any stains left after the sap is removed.

I would do a small area with the clay and AIO and see if it removes all traces of the sap before adding another step with the polish. And if you do use a polish use it between the clay and AIO.
 
#10 ·
Hi again,

I've never had a sap issue (except myself being a sap - ha!) but I suggested S100 Total Cycle Cleaner in your other thread ( http://www.bikedepot.net/s1geltocycl.html ) because I thought it would be the best product you could buy retail for that purpose, it's supposed to be exactly the same as P21S High Performance Total Auto Wash ( http://autopia-carcare.com/p21-130.html ) but about $8 for a 500 ml pump bottle instead of having to buy twice as much at twice the price for the P21S auto version.

Here's a link to the Autopia reviews on bug/tar/sap removers including Stoner and P21S.( http://reviews.autopia.org/censura.php?cmd=browse&category_id=14 ) Looks like people didn't seem to think much of Stoner and if you've tried 3 products already and none worked, I think you're stuck claying or going the alcohol/solvent route suggested by others.

Best of luck with all this. :)
 
#11 ·
if the tree sap is from an evergreen (small, brown lumps) clay bar won't touch it. Rubbing alcohol and elbow grease is the best combo I have found. (My wife seems to park her M3 under every evergreen tree she can find :mad: )

follow this with regular (your choice) wax treatment
 
#12 ·
1Dreamer said:
Hi again,

I've never had a sap issue (except myself being a sap - ha!) but I suggested S100 Total Cycle Cleaner in your other thread ( http://www.bikedepot.net/s1geltocycl.html ) because I thought it would be the best product you could buy retail for that purpose, it's supposed to be exactly the same as P21S High Performance Total Auto Wash ( http://autopia-carcare.com/p21-130.html ) but about $8 for a 500 ml pump bottle instead of having to buy twice as much at twice the price for the P21S auto version.

Here's a link to the Autopia reviews on bug/tar/sap removers including Stoner and P21S.( http://reviews.autopia.org/censura.php?cmd=browse&category_id=14 ) Looks like people didn't seem to think much of Stoner and if you've tried 3 products already and none worked, I think you're stuck claying or going the alcohol/solvent route suggested by others.

Best of luck with all this. :)
Yeah I read that the S100 Total Cycle Cleaner will remove tree sap it might be something to try.
 
#13 ·
Artslinger said:
Yeah I read that the S100 Total Cycle Cleaner will remove tree sap it might be something to try.
Yeah, I was thinking it was his best shot short of clay/pure solvents/alcohol that he could pick up when he was picking up the wax, but if he's actually bought three different products already he might not want to buy a 4th. It's supposed to work well though and some think it's also the same thing as the "Porsche Tequipment" private labeled for Porshe. http://reviews.autopia.org/censura.php?cmd=details&itemid=108
 
#14 ·
Will keep trying...

1Dreamer said:
Hi again,

I've never had a sap issue (except myself being a sap - ha!) but I suggested S100 Total Cycle Cleaner in your other thread ( http://www.bikedepot.net/s1geltocycl.html ) because I thought it would be the best product you could buy retail for that purpose, it's supposed to be exactly the same as P21S High Performance Total Auto Wash ( http://autopia-carcare.com/p21-130.html ) but about $8 for a 500 ml pump bottle instead of having to buy twice as much at twice the price for the P21S auto version.

Here's a link to the Autopia reviews on bug/tar/sap removers including Stoner and P21S.( http://reviews.autopia.org/censura.php?cmd=browse&category_id=14 ) Looks like people didn't seem to think much of Stoner and if you've tried 3 products already and none worked, I think you're stuck claying or going the alcohol/solvent route suggested by others.

Best of luck with all this. :)
Yes, I read what you said, but actually I stopped by a local store that had "Tarminator" for $3.95, so I thought I'd give it a try. Next I guess I will try to find the P21S or S100 cleaner at a bike or motorcycle shop, since it is entirely possible that the sap may be as described above, in which case, the clay bar may be a waste of effort. Yet, rubbing alcohol and concerted rubbing as described may not be the best approach for a reasonably new car.

As the post said above:
thrillhill said:
if the tree sap is from an evergreen (small, brown lumps) clay bar won't touch it. Rubbing alcohol and elbow grease is the best combo I have found. (My wife seems to park her M3 under every evergreen tree she can find :mad: )

follow this with regular (your choice) wax treatment
 
#15 ·
rocky said:
I'm still not certain about how to interpret your comment. A "professional detailer"? Why would I spend all of this effort trying to solve my problems and then go a "professional detailer"? Also, would they do a better/job and be as careful with my paint job? I think given the right approach, I can most likely solve the problem.
You've tried several products that should have worked to remove the sap, but to no avail. Either you can keep experimenting, or take the car to a professional who does this kind of thing for a living. I too would be afraid of using anything that might permenently damage the paint.

Since you've got the Klasse AIO on order, perhaps you could ask the detailer to just remove the sap and then you can follow up with the Klasse and S-100 yourself.
 
#16 ·
May give it a try

1Dreamer said:
Yeah, I was thinking it was his best shot short of clay/pure solvents/alcohol that he could pick up when he was picking up the wax, but if he's actually bought three different products already he might not want to buy a 4th. It's supposed to work well though and some think it's also the same thing as the "Porsche Tequipment" private labeled for Porshe. http://reviews.autopia.org/censura.php?cmd=details&itemid=108
Well, let me see if I can find it tomorrow at an m-cycle or bicycle shop.

Thanks.
 
#17 ·
Detailer versus doing it yourself

guitarman said:
You've tried several products that should have worked to remove the sap, but to no avail. Either you can keep experimenting, or take the car to a professional who does this kind of thing for a living. I too would be afraid of using anything that might permenently damage the paint.

Since you've got the Klasse AIO on order, perhaps you could ask the detailer to just remove the sap and then you can follow up with the Klasse and S-100 yourself.
This would mean I'd need to then do a search to locate a reputable detailer in the area. Next, what would happen if they ended up taking off my paint, or scratching the finish, or making swirls, and made things worse?

I honestly think that the people in this forum are a wealth of information and have tried many different approaches and even though a detailer is a "professional", does that mean that he/she will know more than the people in this forum? Isn't the whole purpose of a forum to exchange knowledge and information? If someone works on his/her car for "x" amount of years and "y" hours per year, they then become an expert on the proper way to detail that car. Isn't that what being "professional" means? Or am I missing something?

I don't think removing some bits of tree sap would require a herculean effort. I'm just looking for the right approach.
 
#18 ·
Tree Resin (Sap):

Tree Resin (Sap):
(Appears like a dark brown/ red coloured surface mark) some of the most common resinous tree sap types are: White Pine, Maple, Oak, Popular, and Blue Spruce, none of which are water soluble, the acidic content of the sap will etch the paint surface, causing a concave surface.

These can be removed by using detailer's clay to remove any hardened surface deposits and then using either Isopropyl alcohol (ISP) or if that doesn't remove it use a machine polish, Iz einzett TM Metallic Polish or Iz einzett TM Paint Polish and a cutting (LC Orange or Yellow) foam pad (speed # 4) to level the surface, reapply surface protection once spots have been removed (to remove sap etching from glass see Water Spots)

Factors as to the amount of time it takes to remove sap and what damage it has caused are dependent on temperature and time the sap has been on the paint surface. Be careful and take your time removing it, remember always let the products do the work for you.

Tree sap that is still soft can be removed by soaking with Isopropyl Alcohol (or Stoner's Terminator) wet the area with the product and allows it to remain on the surface for 3-5 minutes, then wipe with soft dry towel. For tree sap that has hardened, carefully scrape the top of the spot off with a plastic razor blade to expose the softer sap inside.

Soak a towel with the solvent placing it over the sap and let soak for 10-minutes, repeat in order for the solvents to break down the sap, once it's removed re-apply sealant / wax protection of your choice.
Some saps will lift and crack the paint, this damage will require refinishing. Turpentine is made from tree resins, in severe cases it can be used to break down the resin in tree sap, use as a last resort only and use sparingly and do not rub hard and give it some time to work.
JonM
 
#20 ·
More things to try...

seadzz said:
Seems tree sap is not really easy to remove if it has "set" on the car.

I found this link which you may find helpful:

http://www.bmwworld.com/repairs/detailing/tree_sap.htm

Not sure about some of the "organic solvents" i.e. mayo and bacon grease mentioned in the link but most of the others should be of help.

sdz
Yes, thanks, I did search and find this link, as well as some others. This is, in fact, hardened sap, that may have "set" on the paint. The reason why I am so focused on removing it is that I am planning to use Klasse AIO and the S100 on the car this week and want to prep the paint before, since I'm certain that I shouldn't apply the Klasse OVER sap. I'm not sure if the bacon grease, or mayo would be damaging. I can't see how. I have also heard of using margarine. So, here is what I may try, in terms of what I have found in searches and in this forum:
Mineral Spirits
(I just can't get used to the idea of using mineral spirits to remove the sap - I would think logically it would break down the clear coat., so I think I will need to exclude this.)
Margarine
Clay Magic clay bar
S100 (P21S) wash
3M Adhesive and Wax remover

Again, I certainly appreciate your comments.
 
#21 ·
I know this is going to sound totally silly, but I was thinking about this yesterday after I posted. Have you ever tried eating anything with chocolate in it when you have gum in your mouth? It breaks the gum down so it totally falls apart and almost dissolves. I'm wondering what would happen if you tried rubbing softened chocolate on it? I seriously think I'd try it.

I'm not sure if you have tiny specs of sap all over or a few bigger droplets, but I get the impression it's the latter and if it is and you haven't already done this, make sure you try heating the sap with either a hair dryer or a hot wet towel and then scraping off the top outer hardened "shell" of the droplets if you can without digging down to the surface. Then I'd try the tissue method where you soak a piece of tissue in one of the many sap removers you now own (ha!) and lay it on top and let it soak on top of the droplet for 5 to 10 minutes before trying to wipe or rub to remove it.

I don't know why I've become so interested in this, but it's almost as if it's become a mission where I'm intent to see you remove this sap somehow if it kills me! Ha! I wish I was there so I could work on it for you. I'm not a pro by any means, but I really enjoy this stuff for some reason and love sprucing up my parents' and friends' cars and seeing their reaction. In fact, I have a friend coming over in the morning and we're going to detail his 330i.

Be sure and let us know if and when you removed it and how. By the time you figure all this out I think you'll be ready to start a detailing business for all your neighbors. :D Good luck!
 
#22 ·
1Dreamer said:
I know this is going to sound totally silly, but I was thinking about this yesterday after I posted. Have you ever tried eating anything with chocolate in it when you have gum in your mouth? It breaks the gum down so it totally falls apart and almost dissolves. I'm wondering what would happen if you tried rubbing softened chocolate on it? I seriously think I'd try it.

I'm not sure if you have tiny specs of sap all over or a few bigger droplets, but I get the impression it's the latter and if it is and you haven't already done this, make sure you try heating the sap with either a hair dryer or a hot wet towel and then scraping off the top outer hardened "shell" of the droplets if you can without digging down to the surface. Then I'd try the tissue method where you soak a piece of tissue in one of the many sap removers you now own (ha!) and lay it on top and let it soak on top of the droplet for 5 to 10 minutes before trying to wipe or rub to remove it.

I don't know why I've become so interested in this, but it's almost as if it's become a mission where I'm intent to see you remove this sap somehow if it kills me! Ha! I wish I was there so I could work on it for you. I'm not a pro by any means, but I really enjoy this stuff for some reason and love sprucing up my parents' and friends' cars and seeing their reaction. In fact, I have a friend coming over in the morning and we're going to detail his 330i.

Be sure and let us know if and when you removed it and how. By the time you figure all this out I think you'll be ready to start a detailing business for all your neighbors. :D Good luck!
I know the feeling of wanting to do something, and knowing if you were only there, you possibly could.

Well, I may have the clay by tomorrow and will try that next I think. I tried a really hot towel and that did nothing. Hair dryer - I may get too carried away and burn the paint. I think I will try the soaked tissue. You know, from the odor of the Bug and Tar removers I have, I'm willing to bet that the contents are pretty much the same, but packaged in different ways. I just hate to be putting the Klasse AIO over the sap.

At 3000 miles away, I think it's not that convenient for us to do this together, but I appreciate the thought.

After getting into this recently, I have washed the car like 3 times in the past week and it really does look nicer. It is that black metallic paint. I can see that the wheels will be a problem though.

I'll let you know.

Thanks.
 
#24 ·
1Dreamer said:
I know this is going to sound totally silly, but I was thinking about this yesterday after I posted. Have you ever tried eating anything with chocolate in it when you have gum in your mouth? It breaks the gum down so it totally falls apart and almost dissolves. I'm wondering what would happen if you tried rubbing softened chocolate on it? I seriously think I'd try it.

I don't know why I've become so interested in this, but it's almost as if it's become a mission where I'm intent to see you remove this sap somehow if it kills me! Ha! I wish I was there so I could work on it for you. I'm not a pro by any means, but I really enjoy this stuff for some reason and love sprucing up my parents' and friends' cars and seeing their reaction. In fact, I have a friend coming over in the morning and we're going to detail his 330i.
:wave: Um... hello.. can I be your friend? Care to wax my new car for me? :angel: I'll even take a picture of you in a sexy pose in front of my hood and post it all over bimmerfest for the guys to drool over. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You are one funny character, dreamer. Have fun detailing the 330i on Sunday. :)
 
#25 · (Edited)
Z4phillygirl said:
:wave: Um... hello.. can I be your friend? Care to wax my new car for me? :angel: I'll even take a picture of you in a sexy pose in front of my hood and post it all over bimmerfest for the guys to drool over. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You are one funny character, dreamer. Have fun detailing the 330i on Sunday. :)
I'm sure the gang here would love to see those pictures. :yikes: Admit it, you just want to see me scantily clad on the hood of your car. I've met your type and I'm not falling for that old trick again. :rofl:

Yes, I can be a character. I have a gardener so I don't have to do any yard work and I'd even take the elevator up to my car in the parking structure at the Sport Club Irvine so I didn't have to walk the stairs after working out, but this will be two weekends in a row I've done mini details on my friends' cars. :D
 
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