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New Software Update for Hesitation/Tip-in

41K views 237 replies 46 participants last post by  snj1013 
#1 ·
Just got the latest software update yesterday for the hesitation issues. It was just released earlier this month. So far, big improvement. Acts like a normal car now. Just hope the adaptive BS doesn't mess it up. Time will till. I will post the update number when I get my paperwork from the dealer. There were two updates issued. Same software update for both, but issued for different build dates.
 
#76 · (Edited)
Back to the Coding

So I am sitting in my dealer's wait area...pretty nice actually with internet connectivity. I'm getting a tire replaced and an oil change, but here is the Service Info for the recall and coding for my car. My SA gave me the Service Information sheet, summarized as follows
(Defect Code 00 61 70 03 00):

Situation
When programming/coding the control units with an older ISTA/P version (up to and including ISTA/P P2.48.1), the car access system was incorrectly coded. The button to activate the anti-theft alarm on the ID transmitter is not working.

Procedure
Connect battery charger to vehicle
Connect the programming system to the vehicle (ISTA/P)
Determine the measures plan
Accept/work through measures plan with the control units to be programmed/coded
Check Final Report for faults
If required connect the workshop system (ISTA/P) to vehicle, run a vehicle test and clear fault code memory

Note

ISTA/P P2.48.2 or a more recent version is required for programming/coding

That's all I know.
 
#80 ·
Video only shows manual mode....
 
#84 ·
The only doubt is the way yogi accelerated in the D mode. It seems like a pretty quick dash ("nice push into the seat"). Like Peter said, if you step hard on the pedal, it will start from first.

Anyway, the issue that we are talking about is not just the dash off the line, but in a mix of coasting and re-accelerating, the general feeling of the gas pedal response (slow). And I think we have sort of concluded that if your car doesn't have the issue, you will have zero clue on what we are dealing with.

Thanks for the video anyway, yogi.
 
#85 ·
Douggie,

1. It was a moderate acceleration as stated. I was not trying to deceive you but give you real information
2. Gas was half throttle as stated, to simulate most common scrnario
3. With 300hp that is exactly what produces a 'nice push into the seat'
4. The car always acts like this, whether I floor it or act like someone who's got no idea was the gas pedal is for.
5. As I said before the car has no idea how much gas you will apply so if it had to change from second down to first you would have noticed something very weird in the rpms (which is something I'd like to see anyway, so someone please post the same vid if yours starts in 2nd.

Hope this answers all the doubts.
 
#86 ·
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
 
#87 ·
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
Yep. This is the hesitation/lag we're talking about. A two second delay can be dangerous if it comes at the wrong time. This is my very first car that I actually felt unsafe to drive, The problem is that the delay is unpredictable. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it isn't.
 
#89 ·
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
If you are willing to do it, I would try a tune. Before I had mine installed I did notice the car was sluggish in D mode, almost coasting with a focus on saving fuel. I installed a Burger JB4 tune - plug and play. It makes a world of difference in both D and DS mode. The tune is relatively inexpensive and I have had no side affects whatsoever. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the throttle response in D mode is set up to ensure the car is maximizing fuel economy. The tune improves HP and Torque. If you tried it, it would change your perception of the car significantly.
 
#92 ·
I think there are TWO reasons for it.

1. Fuel consumption. The car does not "jump" on your request to go fast in hopes that perhaps you didn't really want to (or need to!) accelerate so much. Unfortunately, it doesn't realize that many of us are driving enthusiasts and we really meant it! :rofl:

2. 8 speed tranny. There is simply too many gears to read the driver's intention right and nail it at the first attempt. When I floor it, I feel the tranny shift immediately, but to a too high of a gear, so it has to correct it, which takes even more time. Coasting at 40mph would typically mean the 7th gear, for example. When you gun it, the car is not sure if it should down**** to 3rd or 4th... So it waits for a split second to make sure it is reading your intention right, it may even down**** to the 5th for a moment, and then finally put me in the 3rd or so. That process takes eternity, but it was sort of similar in my E46 but since there were only 5 gears, it got the right gear a tad faster. DS is always more responsive, of course, and gets me a huge boost of power in half the time.

Needs, you've mentioned a recent update. I had a comprehensive one applied 2 months ago and no change. Did you get something more recent? Plus, the hell would it not solve your hesitation and surge problem at take off?? Use my vids...

All in all, this is not too worrisome. I can still enjoy the car and if it saves a tonne of gas by being a bit lazy....
 
#94 ·
I think there are TWO reasons for it.

1. Fuel consumption. The car does not "jump" on your request to go fast in hopes that perhaps you didn't really want to (or need to!) accelerate so much. Unfortunately, it doesn't realize that many of us are driving enthusiasts and we really meant it! :rofl:

2. 8 speed tranny. There is simply too many gears to read the driver's intention right and nail it at the first attempt. When I floor it, I feel the tranny shift immediately, but to a too high of a gear, so it has to correct it, which takes even more time. Coasting at 40mph would typically mean the 7th gear, for example. When you gun it, the car is not sure if it should down**** to 3rd or 4th... So it waits for a split second to make sure it is reading your intention right, it may even down**** to the 5th for a moment, and then finally put me in the 3rd or so. That process takes eternity, but it was sort of similar in my E46 but since there were only 5 gears, it got the right gear a tad faster. DS is always more responsive, of course, and gets me a huge boost of power in half the time.

Needs, you've mentioned a recent update. I had a comprehensive one applied 2 months ago and no change. Did you get something more recent? Plus, the hell would it not solve your hesitation and surge problem at take off?? Use my vids...

All in all, this is not too worrisome. I can still enjoy the car and if it saves a tonne of gas by being a bit lazy....
The hardware is fine. It's just the software that's causing the lags and hesitation. If the hardware is the problem, things will still be bad in DS, sport, sport+, sport++++++++ modes.

All I want is a "daily driving" mode that has the throttle responsiveness of the DS mode, but without the gear holding at high rpms. Don't tell me that I have to toggle back and forth just to overtake. I'd buy a manual transmission if I want to mess with the shifter.

If they made the car laggy just because of fuel consumption, they're targeting the wrong audience. I'd buy a prius if I wanted good gas mileage.
 
#91 ·
My local dealership accepted my rather vague complaint of rough idle and throttle delay and, without question or delay, updated the software. I had tried the adaptive parameter reset as mentioned above and the software update makes the car drive better, at first impression, than the reset did three weeks ago. The SA who gave my car back to me this morning said that this is a known problem on the first F10s.
 

Attachments

#98 ·
BMW of the Woodlands. Going to call Wednesday and make an appointment for the following week.
 
#113 ·
48.3. Really? Same question...how do you know with certainty you got 48.3?
 
#121 ·
Let assume for a minute that F001-12-07-520 was accurate, it would be from July 2012, which would make it between ISTA/P 2.47.0 and ISTA/P 2.47.7.

But, this is unbelievable. I assume you got F001-12-07-520 from reading the Profile Export .xml file, and this is not accurate and can not be used.

As I wrote, the only way is to read the ISTA/P Measure Plan (Final Report), or connect with E-Sys and Read I-Step Current from CAS Module.
 
#125 · (Edited)
Just got the email saying they are now keeping it until monday to fix that SOS state... I'm sure its an easy solution, but sure seems like this car finds every error and likes to show off by displaying them for the tech working on the car!

I confirmed they printed off the ISTA/P report for me, I'll get it when I pickup the car... The tech confirmed the version 2.48.3 by email - I had asked if he installed 2.48.2 as I thought that was the latest version based on what I read here and he responded back to say "so no, and he installed a newer version of 2.48.3" - only way to be sure I guess is to check when the car is in my hands.
 
#126 ·
Just got the email saying they are now keeping it until monday to fix that SOS state... I'm sure its an easy solution, but sure seems like this car finds every error and likes to show off by displaying them for the tech working on the car!

I confirmed they printed off the report ISTA/P report for me, I'll get it when I pickup the car... The tech confirmed the version 2.48.3 by email - I had asked if he installed 2.48.2 as I thought that was the latest version based on what I read here and he responded back so no, and he installed a newer version of 2.48.3 - only way to be sure I guess is to check when the car is in my hands.
It could be 48.3. Let us know when you have the report in hand.
 
#128 ·
Does this effect the 550xi

It's going in tomorrow and wondering if I should ask them to upgrade the software it's a 2012

D
The N63 Motor is not covered by the SIB.
 
#130 ·
It has been about a month and 800 miles now and the latest software update seems to still be working great. No signs of the adaptive controls having any effect on it. It not only has eliminated the hesitation problem but also has improved overall throttle response. My gas mileage seems to have reduced a bit but I think that is more from the way I am driving it now. It's a real joy to drive now. I think this might finally be the permanent fix this time.

Has anybody else had the update done?
 
#131 ·
Will be going in a week from today.
 
#134 ·
Does this tip in issue affect all 535i's or just some? I am in the market to purchase a new car and had my heart set on a 535i. However, this tip in issue would be a real deal breaker. If it is random, that may also be a deal breaker as I would worry I couldn't identify it during a test drive.
 
#139 ·
Shawn
I have the IATA/p report and it says the following
IATA/p 48.3.001

Integration level
F010-12-11-503


Does that help

Btw car is back and runs really well... I don't think however I had any of the tip in issues so I can't comment on that part of it, acceleration is different but that could be one o two things... I spent almost 5 weeks in. 528 loaner, and the dinan stage II has been altered by dinan in the version I have to change power delivery in acceleration for th xi models....

It's very smooth so far
 
#140 ·
Shawn
I have the IATA/p report and it says the following
IATA/p 48.3.001

Integration level
F010-12-11-503

Does that help

Btw car is back and runs really well... I don't think however I had any of the tip in issues so I can't comment on that part of it, acceleration is different but that could be one o two things... I spent almost 5 weeks in. 528 loaner, and the dinan stage II has been altered by dinan in the version I have to change power delivery in acceleration for th xi models....

It's very smooth so far
Yes, thank you. So, it seems 48.3 is out. However, for F10 Chassis, the Integration Level of F010-12-11-503 is unchanged from 48.2, so nothing new there.
 
#153 ·
From that thread:

"You are at a busy intersection trying to squeeze your way out into the heavy traffic. You see an opening and mash the gas pedal, but the car does not seem to respond immediately***8230;.......... it hesitates***8230;.......... or it slowly pokes. You want to open the door, stick your foot down on the pavement (remember the Flintstones) and get the car moving***8230;.......... the person in the car behind you is screaming at you, GO! GO! GO! FOOL! ***8230;..........WHAT ARE YOU WAITING ON? You frantically keep mashing the gas pedal and all of the sudden, wham***8230;.......... you are jerked into oblivion and take off***8230;.......... heading straight for the hospital for one of two reasons, you either have whiplash or someone has plowed into the side of you because you were poking for too long.

OK, OK***8230;.......... so maybe that is a tiny bit of an exaggeration, but I also bet it ain't too far from several real stories, if not nearly spot on."


OK, then I clearly don't have it and never have... far from it actually. I press and the thing just zooms off with a nice push into the seat. Hesitation? Not a bit. There is only about .5s delay in takeoff which is super minor and not a safety concern (yes, I have written about it too, but it is really insignificant in the scheme of things). If it was a 2 second delay, then yes, but less that 1s.... is not a problem. At least not the way the tip-in was described above.

Best of luck guys, it should not be that difficult to get the cars fixed if they behave as described here. Just get an new 535 for a test drive with the shop manager and show them how it performs differently.

UNLESS, of course, that description is full of **** and a large exaggeration. In which case, I repeat my question: what is tip-in?
 
#155 ·
Is the issue represented graphically something like this:



Your foot's position on pedal is the nice linear purple line...the car's response looks more like the yellow line. Basically, a screwed up throttle map (having nothing to do with transmissions, turbo lag, or anything like that). My guess is that it is a lazy map combined with a crappy learning algorithm that makes it worse over time. As drivers get aggressive with the throttle (trying to overcome the lazy map) the learning algorithm might be doing something stupid like "keep the throttle curve shallow initially, but then sharply increase since this driver likes more throttle" instead of just making it mirror what the driver's foot is doing.
 
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