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X5 35i vs 35d comparitive sales volume

6K views 34 replies 9 participants last post by  Clifton 
#1 ·
As we consider whether to order a 35i or 35d X5, I'm curious as to what the relative sales volumes have been for the two. Though posted in the X5 F15 forum, it would be interesting to know this information for past years too.
 
#3 ·
I would guess that in the US, the gas model outpaces the diesel by quite a margin. Unfortunately in this country a lot of people still think of the horrible diesels of years past and are turned off by them, thus lowering the sales volume. I currently have a 2011 35d and we just ordered a new 2014 X5 35i. Why the switch? At the time we bought the diesel, the gas was an underpowered 3.0 (the 4.8 was out of the budget) and the diesel had a huge ECO credit attached to it ($3500 or $4500 can't recall). That plus at the time the fuel cost was very favorable when owning a diesel. Fast forward to today, and the 35i is a much improved gas engine, there is no eco credit, and at least where we live the cost of diesel vs. gas (approx $0.30 more per gallon) offsets the better mileage in the diesel. Add in the fact that the D is $1500 more expensive and it was really a no-brainer. Only way I would opt diesel at this point is if you plan to use the vehicle to tow or drive a lot of miles (to where the fuel savings offsets the additional up front cost).
 
#4 ·
I went trough the same struggle and ultimately it came down to gas mileage/range of vehicle. The ratio quoted to me for US based X5ds was 1 in 20. The majority of the diesels are shipped to the rest of the world.

Two separate dealers quoted me this same (SWAG) number. The allocation numbers for diesel builds, or lack thereof, seemed to support this guess. There was an abundance of 35is.
 
#5 ·
As far as I remember, X5d US sales was between 20-30% of all E70 sales depending on the incentives available at the moment. As a diesel fun boy I would not buy more expensive F15 with single turbo diesel over 35i gas version. It does not make sense (IMO) from a financial perspective, but also from power perspective. If they offered $4-5k credit, I would reconsider...
 
#6 ·
I'm interested in your financial analysis that brought you to your conclusion. Not discrediting your thoughts, but I'm not sure that I would agree.

Using available on-line calculators and resources like Fuel Economy Gov, I'm seeing that the X5d will pay for itself over the gas equivalent ($1.5k delta) in ~3 years (see attached screen shot). That calculation is a mix of city/highway driving with a tilt toward city. Slide that scale to favor more highway and I would suspect the recovery cost to take even less time to recoup.

Think it really comes down to how you plan on using the X5, but most cases seem to favor diesel over gas.
 

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#7 ·
It all depends on the figures you put into your calculator. In my area, the spread between premium gas and diesel is around $0.30 (the default you used is only a $0.08 spread). Using that, at 15,000 miles per year and the 45/55 split in your figures, the diesel saves you approximately $400/year. So you save only $1200 over a 3 year lease term, vs the $1500 upcharge, which is obviously not worth it. Obviously is you are buying and keep your vehicles a longer time than the numbers tilt towards the diesel.
 
#12 ·
Your analysis is not correct for a lease. Yes, there is a $1,500 MSRP price difference between the gas and diesel models, but on a lease, you are not paying the entire $1,500 difference. You are only paying the percentage that is not residualized. The current residual on a 15k/yr lease is 57% so you are only paying an extra $645 plus interest for the diesel over the 3 year lease (likely less than $25/mo in the lease payment), which leaves you with several hundred dollars in savings based upon your fuel cost estimates above.
 
#9 ·
I landed at a similar conclusion as others here. The economics of upgrading to diesel are not that compelling - 4 year ROI for us based on our usage pattern and the typical price spread between premium and diesel as reported on gasbuddy.com. All the while, giving up on that glorious BMW gas inline-6 sound! Pass.
 
#10 ·
In our area diesel is running equal to a few cents a gallon more than premium, but I still expect the oil burner will save us $400 to $600 per year in fuel costs.

Back to the original post, we upped the relative sales of the 35d by one this past Saturday with the purchase of an F15 35d, the decision finalized after test driving a 35i (we'd previously driven a 35d). While the engine in the 35i is excellent, the additional power of the 35d in the RPM range we most commonly drive in was the deciding factor.
 
#15 ·
Back to the original post, we upped the relative sales of the 35d by one this past Saturday with the purchase of an F15 35d, the decision finalized after test driving a 35i (we'd previously driven a 35d). While the engine in the 35i is excellent, the additional power of the 35d in the RPM range we most commonly drive in was the deciding factor.
Just curious, in what type of driving does the 35d provide better power than the 35i?
 
#13 ·
Yeah, almost everybody is focused on the price difference... this is only one of the arguments against diesel. The other one is that 35d (real 30d) in F15 is not an engine comparable with 35i. 30d aka 35d in the US is just not as good as 35i. 35i and 40d are comparable engines.

As a side note, 35d installed in E70 was completely different engine (predecessor of 40d, bi-turbo) than rebadged 35d in F15 (single turbo).
 
#19 ·
Yeah, almost everybody is focused on the price difference... this is only one of the arguments against diesel. The other one is that 35d (real 30d) in F15 is not an engine comparable with 35i. 30d aka 35d in the US is just not as good as 35i. 35i and 40d are comparable engines.

As a side note, 35d installed in E70 was completely different engine (predecessor of 40d, bi-turbo) than rebadged 35d in F15 (single turbo).
Using that logic, wouldn't that make the 35i gas engine "not as good as" as it's predecessor? The gas 35i use to have bi-turbo (N54) and now has a single turbo (N55).

Personally and from a more power is better, I'd rather have a 40d, but they are not really an option in the US. However, I don't think that makes the 35d any less of a workhorse.
 
#20 ·
N55 uses a single twin scroll turbocharger which is not a single turbo. Twin scroll works more like bi-turbo and not like single turbo. E.g. it reduces turbo lag.
 
#21 ·
False - The N55 twin scroll is a single turbo, not two, only one. The N54 had two physical turbos in parallel.

The the N57 diesel is a single turbo and works on a similar principle as the N55, hence "Twin Power".

Both try to replicate what the N54 g/ M57 d with two turbos.
 
#24 ·
Please, 35i and 30d (aka 35d in the US) use completely different turbo systems. One is twin scroll turbocharger (35i) second one is single turbo turbocharger with variable vane geometry (30d). What is the advantage of having twin scroll turbocharger I mentioned before - the twin scroll reduces "turbo-lag".
 
#26 ·
Simple - Variable vane geometry reduces lag. Porsche was an early adopter of Variable vane geomerty in their 911 turbo. The primary reason reduce lag at low end, big oooomph at high end. Google it, you will see how it works...its really neat and is concept much like VANOS/VTech etc. only for turbos.
 
#29 ·
I notice that you are changing your argument....a twin scroll turbo is not TWO physical turbos, it is a single turbo. I've said it with each of my posts.

Let's look at facts:

N54 = Two Turbos
N55 = Single Turbo (current 35i engine)

M57 = Two Turbos
N57 = Single Turbo (current 35d engine)

You poo-poo'd the 35d for going from a two turbo setup to a single, yet the 35i gas did the exact same thing.
 
#30 ·
Pardon, where did I say that twin scroll turbo is TWO physical turbos?

Please try to understand that single turbo will drive with bigger turbo lag than bi-turbo or twin scroll turbo. If you like this, I am happy with this. For me BMW NA plays unfair when downgrading the diesel engine and fooling Americans with the badge.
 
#31 ·
I get what you are saying, but BMW NA did the same thing with the 35i (N54) when they took a twin-turbo system and reduced it to a single turbo system (N55) and called it "Twin Power".

Faulting the diesel for dropping a turbo is a weak argument especially given the 35i (N55) suffered from the same engineering efficiency and "twin" marketing.

It's understood that the diesel and the gas use engineering to squeeze more from a single turbo, albeit differently, but in both cases the action was to reduce cost vs. true performance.
 
#32 ·
I am sorry, but you still do not understand the difference between single turbo and twin scroll turbo. I would not be whining when they replaced bi-turbo 35d with twin scroll turbo 35d. Instread they brought 30d (SINGLE TURBO), rebadged to 35d and charging more than for 35i, where I guess everywhere outside the US 35i costs more than 30d...

I am pretty sure that replacing twin turbo with twin scroll turbo was not driven by cost cutting... this is pretty big topic actually.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I am sorry, but you still do not understand the difference between single turbo and twin scroll turbo.
False - twin scroll/twin Power is a SINGLE TURBO with lots of "twin" marketing.

I am pretty sure that replacing twin turbo with twin scroll turbo was not driven by cost cutting... this is pretty big topic actually.
False - Case in point: if the twin scroll were so performance driven, why did BMW use the N54 bi-trubo in in the "sporty" variants like the 335is while at the same time use N55 (SINGLE TURBO) in the plane jane 335i? Hmmmm....

Also if you look under the hood of the new M3/4 with the S55 you will find that BMW M TwinPower Turbo technology comprises of two physical mono-scroll turbochargers.
 
#34 ·
Hello Mr False. I give up. Google is your friend. Please educate yourself. You can find information why twin scroll turbo is not used in bigger engines. A lot of useful information in internet, but you need to be open minded and not try to find argument supporting your current knowledge.

Have a good day!
 
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