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Here's another ATS vs 3 Series Comparison

25K views 108 replies 34 participants last post by  Jamesonsviggen 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#3 ·
I'm in early, and I say it doesn't matter. The ATS target market is the BMW 3 series target market minus the people who just don't want a Cadillac, which leaves a smaller buyer group than BMW will worry about. They have a much larger problem with Audi.

GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.
 
#8 ·
guys, I'm not an F30 owner but frequent this section (only to watch the BJ debates - keep em going they're great;) but c'mon, even I'm getting tired of seeing these Cadillac comparison threads. Move it to the general automotive forum.


as to the post above, sure Cadillac has its place in history and should be appreciated but BMW engines powered the Luftwaffe that bombed half of Britain but we buy their cars and then some. Speaks volumes to the respective products.


ok, I'll leave now and go back to the E39 forums but will be joining the F10 folks in a couple of months.


rock on:thumbup:
 
#9 · (Edited)
"The ATS is the first Cadillac built specifically to take on the BMW 3 series". In other words, copy it and try to improve on it. And still, it comes up a little short. It's proactive vs reactive.....again. Sure the ATS is a good car, but it just doesn't inspire the passion. It's still missing the "It" factor that all copies lack.
 
#13 ·
"The ATS is the first Cadillac built specifically to take on the BMW 3 series". In other words, copy it and try to improve on it. And still, it comes up a little short. It's proactive vs reactive.....again.
It's like the Lexus IS300, designed for one reason, to copy the E36.

It failed cause it was a half-assed effort.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.

One thing I found it alarming is, it actually proved BJ's point again, our own BMW test driver did not even know ATS existed, he had to Google it to find out:)
 
#16 ·
I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.
The BMW guy actually said the 335i had less body roll, and was the better performer overall. He certainly didn't say the ATS was better at anything, I didn't hear that.
 
#23 ·
If the ATS had been available in the market when I ordered my F30 I would have at least considered it.

I actually believe that GM engineers very good vehicles and the work being done at Cadillac is impressive.

My biggest gripe with Caddy is the 'old man' image as well as the interior that looks like it belongs in a Neon, not a $45K+ luxury sedan.
 
#25 ·
This is getting ridiculous now. It's as if the 3 series is the ONLY car that this ATS is even comparable to. I remember when the G37 coupe came out, it wasn't this bad. These journalists make GM seem as if they are desparate. All this is doing is making the 3 series look that much better. The only car in this segment any car company has to make a car better than is the 3 series. Really? This ATS wil be forgotten in 2 years.
 
#28 · (Edited)
By the time the G37 coupe came out the G hullabaloo was over. However, that does raise a really good point. When the G35 first came out C&D asked if it was going to be the 3 Series killer. It did very well. I was very impressed with it. Now that I'm reminded of that I was much more impressed with it than I am the ATS.

I don't know if the G35 caused this level of angst in the 3er world. Probably not. Internet forums were still pretty much in their infancy then. Bimmerfest was only a year or so old. But, in the automotive press the speculation about whether it could topple King 3 was certainly all the buzz.

But, Infiniti couldn't keep their focus and by the time the next iteration of the G came around the G had become another "also ran". That could certainly easily happen to the ATS. Infiniti certainly had a lot less baggage than Caddy does and a better reputation (though short) of actually building successful sport sedans, the original Q45 and J30.

With all this gnashing of teeth over the ATS and the 3er it is worth noting that Cadillac has made a very public point of the fact that the 3er was their benchmark, NOT the A4, NOT the C Class, Not the G, NOT th IS. In fact the 3er is everyone's benchmark in this class.
 
#27 ·
This is true in general. There are a few points to make here.

The ATS dose not imitate the current 3, rather the one two generations ago, and the imitation is limited to the chassis for the most part. So far most reviews seem to like that part of attempt.

The other aspect of it, the body style and gadgetry are distinctly unique or cutting edge, so much so they are risky. People either love or hate them.

I think it is a welcome effort in today's play safe, blend in kind of environment. The world advances not because the mass conforms to the norm, but because there are always a few rebels who want to stir things up.
 
#44 ·
Any copy or substitution I would consider if price is less, but it's not the case with ATS, not cosiderably. In addition uknown resale or residual vaule. So why bother? I don't have extra cash to burn experimenting with something like new ATS or IS300 in the past. From this simple view, I don't care about ATS, G8, Genesis, Kizashi and so on.
 
#45 ·
ATS is a very capable car, and you don't have to worry about resale/residual.... just do what most do here and lease it. If you aren't impressed at lease end then hand the dealer the keys and walk off to your next ride. Effectively your residual is locked in and protected in a lease, so you can consider it a "try before you buy" option.

I would have considered the ATS if it had been available when I ordered my 328xi, but the interior styling is somewhat polarizing to me and might have swayed me to avoid it... but I would have test driven it, by all measures it is a very good vehicle.
 
#47 · (Edited)
The only ATS rates I have seen advertised is for the base 2.5L car. The 2.5 is rental car fodder. It allows value shoppers to see the low price and step into the door. If they want to snag you E90 guys, the 2.5L is not going to do it. All this hatred for the N20, yeah, go drive an NA 4 cylinder ATS and comfort yourself in the slightly better steering.

I love how dealers get it wrong and say the 2.5L is a 6 cylinder lol.
 
#53 ·
They have just started to advertise the base 2.0T for $299, although with money down.

I don't think the ATS is a beauty, but it isn't bad. I agree the F30 is too bloated not necessarily because of the bigger size than before, but the front hood and bumper design. The good thing though you can order the m-sport to change the look.

The ATS does not have such sporty option yet. To take on 3 series in this segment, they need to offer more choices.
 
#76 ·
Maybe GM's way to attract a few remaining manual drivers by giving them a big price break. If auto is a must, you do have to pay $44k MSRP to get LSD.
Then honestly, the appealing one to me is the base car for $35k. I think it gets less appealing/competitive as the price begins to line up with the F30.

If they could have given me a 6mt 2.0T with an LSD for about $299 a month, I may be on another forum. I wound up not even leasing as my M-Sport would have been like $500 a month.
 
#50 ·
I live in yurop, so I don't really get the fuss about the ATS here, but I think you guys are discussing the wrong aspects of the car(s).

the single most important reason why you should buy an ATS :

IT IS GORGEOUS!!!!
I fixed it for you.

All kidding aside, exterior styling (IMO ofcourse) is one the best attributes of the ATS.
 
#56 ·
I finally saw one of these on the road the other day. If I HAD to own a Cadillac, it would probably be the ATS.

But, only if I had to.
 
#57 ·
The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
 
#69 ·
 
#72 ·
I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.

I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.

Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
 
#73 ·
I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.

I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.

Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
You should see the interior trim of my 09 328i, peeling on the steering wheel, driver's side window control trim, on cold days radio display will dim and sometimes the radio itself won't work. The driver's seat leather did not age well considering the mileage of the vehicle. Not exactly very high quality built if you ask me. I am not even going to get into the multiple VW brand vehicles I have owned because the quality and service I have encountered with those was beyond embarrassing. The most reliable, highest quality built vehicle I have owned was a TSX. In my experience German cars were by far the most unreliable vehicles I have owned. I am actually very impressed by the increased quality and service domestic brands currently offer over more expensive imports, particularly European ones. Just my 2 cents.
 
#77 ·
Then either you had some horrible car made during octoberfest and then hidden in the lot with the normal cars, or I'm sorry to say this: you did a horrible job maintaining it.

I'm by no means an expert but around 20 people at work here have e90s (and the touring version is it e91?) all from 2007 and 2008 and none of them had any of the complaints/problems you describe.
 
#78 ·
Funny you mentioned. I feel partially responsible for the leather condition of the driver's seat. Most of the time I drive in jeans and rarely clean it. However the issues with the steering wheel, window control trim and exterior window trim (glossy sport package trim) wearing off are very common. You can do a quick search on any E90 forum and find out for yourself. These are not major issues but still unacceptable IMO. BTW my car is 2009 MY LCI with early 2009 built.
 
#89 ·
I sat down in a 370Z the other day. Nice car, really, and superbly priced for the level of performance you get. But, seriously, the interior of that car looked like it was aimed at a 21 year old. It looked like a transformer that hadn't transformed yet.

So, maybe I'm the staid, middle-aged guy BMW is aiming at. I like what they do better.
 
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