These are the dustiest pads I've ever had on a car. NE1 have a suggestion as to a less-dusty pad? Thx
really? I know they are associated with PBR, but pagid too? even if they are made by pagid, theyre not the exact same pad. the pagid ones give off crazy dust just like the OEM jurid ones+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).Modern brake works not by rubbing the pad against the rotor. The theory is that the pad compound actually gets embedded in rotor. And it is that compound against the same compound that works the brake. That is why the bedding procedure is very important.
Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!you should run same pad compounds for both front and back
Blue, I thought that the "slice" as you call it is cut in such a way as to balance the rotor. Not to check how much life left of the said rotor. I thought once the pad wears out (if it's OEM), the rotor is pretty much toast - as in "you cannot resurface it" due to thickness limitation / piston caliper movement :dunno:Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).
I don't quite understand how chemical bonds breaking and making themselves cause enough friction to stop a speeding BMW E39 - but IIRC, it's all explained in the rebedding PDFs at this thread.
Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!
- Detailed report by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center titled:Replacement Brake Pad Performance Evaluation Project National Institute of Justice/Michigan State Police (dated March 2001)
- Summary report of the Equipment Performance Report: 2000 Evaluation of Replacement Brake Pads for Police Patrol Vehicles (dated February 2001)
So, given that the most important factor may be similar materials front and rear, and bearing in mind the OEM Jurid 187 (fronts) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear) combo, do the Axxis Deluxe crowds recommend Axxis Deluxe on both axles (or just the front which dusts the most in the OEM configuration?
These are all good points, but I really could care less about the brake dust.Qualitatively speaking, I agree, it is very hard to judge a brake pad's performance, especially when there is no baseline of comparison. My comments reflect the timeframe when you have just changed your pads out and can notice the difference between the old and the new. I found the difference to be noticeable but not significant and you completely adjust to the different feel within a short time. One thing I did not mention is that I believe the "feel" of a brake pad will change slightly over time. Again, impossible to quantify and nearly impossible to qualitatively describe, however, I find my Euros to feel "better" (more like OEM) over time. I did not get this change with the Axxis. Probably my imagination, just like hearing the difference after a Vanos seal change, as I am clearly no Michael Schumacher.
NLECTC performs various product evaluations for law enforcement so their brake pad evaluations are primarily applicable to police applications. Unless you engage in high speed pursuits, track your car, or live high on a mountaintop, the first most heavily weighted test (high operating temp and fade resistance) does not really apply to most casual street drivers. The last three tests are most applicable to casual street drivers, however, these test result components do not appear to be extractable from their data. Hence, their pad recommendations are not really applicable to the casual driver.
The recent Car & Driver has a good article on brake pad failure on a sporty street Nissan that was tracked. This stock car used Akebonos which completely failed due to repeated high speed braking applications. This is an extreme example as they were able to make their brake fluid BOIL! Note: e39s use Type IV brake fluid so this is less of a risk for us! :rofl:
Bottom line: Folks should set up their brakes for how they will be used. For casual drivers like myself, low dust is my priority followed by performance. For a state trooper or track car, a different brake setup (pads, rotors, fluid, etc.) is probably desirable to maximize safety.
Which Textar pads?i have used Axxis brake pads for a long time on many different cars with no problems. i don't like to have dirty wheels the same day i wash the car and Axxis helps so much that i can go a week without cleaning the wheels.
the biggest difference for me is that you have to heat any ceramic pads. i feel that just driving a few blocks (stop & go) warms the pad up to perform the same as oem pads but without all the dust.
All of you guys are referencing "Axxis pads", but fail to mention which Axxis pad...
I know the Axxis Ultimates are supposed to be superior to the Axxis Deluxe pads.
I am looking at the Axxis Ultimate pads.
Thanks!
Jason
so if you start off the oem pad will have a better initial brake bite while cold but when the ceramic pad is heated just a few mins i feel that the braking becomes the same.
not to long ago my cusin was going crazy with all the brake dust on his 2008 535xi that only had 8k mls. the car is covered until 100k mls. at that time no one made dustlees pads for the rear.
i went to Bill at Bimmerclinic in NJ for help, he ordered a set of Textar pads (no dust) for front and rear. when all installed i couldn't tell the diff even before warming them up or even bedding them.
after a few weeks i took the car on a +200 ml trip, when i got home the first thing i checked was his 20" chrome wheels. no dust at all even that his car is heavier with 20's and i drove it well over 100mph (i won't tell here) and pushed it most of the way.
even that i love the Axxis pads, my next brake job will have Textar pads and i hope they work as well.