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Recommend some new brake pads

13K views 45 replies 29 participants last post by  paferri 
#1 ·
These are the dustiest pads I've ever had on a car. NE1 have a suggestion as to a less-dusty pad? Thx
 
#3 ·
Hello,

You are in the DIY section where people post how to's... see info text below taken from the sticky post. :)

Try posting your question on the 5er board that fits your model year. Start here:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

And select E34, E39, or E60.

(I went with Akebono Euro pads front and rear on the E38, virtually no dust, no rattle, no squeal, but a decrease in pedal sharpness/feel.)

Good luck!


Should I Post Here? Please Read Before Posting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks,

This section was intended as a place to write up any procedure you felt would be a benefit to the 5er collective: Oil change, replacing the radiator, upgrading to Halo lights, replacing the final stage resistor, etc.

It was not intended as a place to post questions.

Please post questions for the relevant E-Code number of your BMW to the other 3 sub-forums here and I think you will get better visibility.

Thanks!

Your Friendly Moderator
 
#4 ·
#6 ·
+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
 
#9 ·
+1 on the Axxxis Deluxe pads. They're the same pad as the Pagid, same manufacturer. I got them because of stopping power, hearing that they really cut down on the dust but I wasn't prepared to believe the hype, plus I have Style 5s. Boy was I surprised! I used to be embarrassed by my sense of fashion and my front wheel dust, now I'm just embarrassed by my sense of fashion!
really? I know they are associated with PBR, but pagid too? even if they are made by pagid, theyre not the exact same pad. the pagid ones give off crazy dust just like the OEM jurid ones

+500 on Axxis deluxe pads. Ive never seen such low-dusting pads, theyre amazing. almost the same brake pedal feel, same stopping power, and mine have only squeeked a couple of times. but the others are right, a couple of hard stops and the squeek is gone.

also, I ordered the regular (older I guessing) PBR/Axxis Deluxe pads, and I see on www.zeckhausen.com that they have Axxis Deluxe Advanced now instead of the ones I have. does anyone know if they are different from mine or just re-named for marketing?
 
#7 ·
Gotta love the Axxis Deluxe for low brake dust. Like the other poster said though... it's hard to keep the squeek away (actually, the other poster didn't say that exactly... the squeek was mentioned. It has been my experience that it's hard to keep away.) I am not very high on braking performance though. I guess it's a trade-off.
 
#12 ·
Best for what purpose? There are significant differences among brake pad materials. Racing pads will obviously have the best braking potential, but it only works when it is property heated up. Also it will eat through rotor like nobody's business; therefore, in everyday application, you really don't want to use racing pads. Most of so call stree performance pads will give you good braking power for a spirited driving. I personally like Hawk HPS pads with simple Brembo blank rotors. Feel of braking is very linear, and works great for occational beating down the twisties. Initial bite in very soft, but it feels like bear claws as you step further on it. But let me warn you, it creates a ton of dust.

Modern brake works not by rubbing the pad against the rotor. The theory is that the pad compound actually gets embedded in rotor. And it is that compound against the same compound that works the brake. That is why the bedding procedure is very important. Also for a maticulous person like me (aka anal) I stay away from using old rotor which used to run different pad compound than a new pad. Also you should run same pad compounds for both front and back, since different compounds start working at difference temperature.
 
#27 ·
Modern brake works not by rubbing the pad against the rotor. The theory is that the pad compound actually gets embedded in rotor. And it is that compound against the same compound that works the brake. That is why the bedding procedure is very important.
Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).

I don't quite understand how chemical bonds breaking and making themselves cause enough friction to stop a speeding BMW E39 - but IIRC, it's all explained in the rebedding PDFs at this thread.

you should run same pad compounds for both front and back
Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!

- Detailed report by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center titled:Replacement Brake Pad Performance Evaluation Project National Institute of Justice/Michigan State Police (dated March 2001)
- Summary report of the Equipment Performance Report: 2000 Evaluation of Replacement Brake Pads for Police Patrol Vehicles (dated February 2001)

So, given that the most important factor may be similar materials front and rear, and bearing in mind the OEM Jurid 187 (fronts) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear) combo, do the Axxis Deluxe crowds recommend Axxis Deluxe on both axles (or just the front which dusts the most in the OEM configuration?

 
#28 ·
Agreed. AFAIK, what we mere drivers call braking "friction" is mainly due to chemical bonds of bedded-brake-on-rotor against brake pad surface breaking and remaking themselves, with heat energy poured out as a result of the friction caused as the bonds break and remake themselves over and over again (covalent bonds IIRC???).

I don't quite understand how chemical bonds breaking and making themselves cause enough friction to stop a speeding BMW E39 - but IIRC, it's all explained in the rebedding PDFs at this thread.

Yup. When I researched how I could compare friction materials in use on my E39, I ran into these experimental testing results for Police-use brake pads, which, IIRC, concluded the single most important factor in stopping power for replacement pads was similar materials front and rear!

- Detailed report by the National Law Enforcement and Corrections Technology Center titled:Replacement Brake Pad Performance Evaluation Project National Institute of Justice/Michigan State Police (dated March 2001)
- Summary report of the Equipment Performance Report: 2000 Evaluation of Replacement Brake Pads for Police Patrol Vehicles (dated February 2001)

So, given that the most important factor may be similar materials front and rear, and bearing in mind the OEM Jurid 187 (fronts) & OEM Textar T4071 (rear) combo, do the Axxis Deluxe crowds recommend Axxis Deluxe on both axles (or just the front which dusts the most in the OEM configuration?

Blue, I thought that the "slice" as you call it is cut in such a way as to balance the rotor. Not to check how much life left of the said rotor. I thought once the pad wears out (if it's OEM), the rotor is pretty much toast - as in "you cannot resurface it" due to thickness limitation / piston caliper movement :dunno:
 
#24 · (Edited)
The problem I have with my OEM Textar pads is that I seem to need to have them replaced every 15K miles or so. ...Twice now, the dealer has told me to put in new rotors at the same time. Is that in any way normal to get so little mileage on pads and rotors?

I have a 2004 325 Xi. Auto (doesn't help). But still... I did the front brakes for the first time at 15K miles. I now have 28K miles, and the dealer told me I had a couple of months to go before needing new pads AGAIN!. The rear pads are the same issue... but they last a little longer for me. I think I've did the rears once at 20K miles too.

Is there something wrong with my pads or my car? Is there a recommendation for long lasting pads and rotors?

Thanks!
 
#33 · (Edited)
I've used the OEM (Jurid), Axxis Deluxe and the Akebono Euro. I found the Jurids to have the best initial brake bite and a very linear feel on the brake pedal. A great brake pad but they were very dusty. If I was an aggressive or hard driver, I would probably stay with these pads. Since my hard driving days are long past, my priorities are to NOT have to clean my wheels on a weekly basis. I had the Axxis on my previous e39 and found they gave up some brake bite and did not have that same linear pedal feel but were nearly dustless. They were prone to the occasional squealing which was cured by rebedding the pads. I am actually running a mix of Akebonos on the front and Axxis Ultimate on the rear on my current e39. I don't think the mixing of pad types makes a big difference as many change out fronts well before they change the rears, resulting in a mismatched set. I found the Euros have a similar feel to the Axxis and are also nearly dust free with no squealing. I found that the difference in pedal feel is noticeable but does not really affect braking performance as you subconsciously adjust to the required pedal pressure required, similar to renting a car. In a direct comparison, I would highly doubt that someone could tell the difference between these two pads. In terms of braking distance, unless you measured this performance it is difficult to qualitatively differentiate between pads (which raises the question that shouldn't braking distance be equal, irrespective of pad type, with the use of ABS as you just need to lock them up (which every brake system should do)?). All things considered, both pads are similar and represent a reasonable near dustless alternative.
 
#29 ·
I have used both the OEM pads and I have been using Axxis Ultimate for the last 8 years on 3 different BMW's ('02 M3, '05 330i, '00 540i), and I feel that hands-down the Axxis Ultimate pads have more bite/braking torque and better feel than the stock pads.
 
#36 ·
I can't possibly knock anyone's description of why one pad feels better to them than another ... as I plumb can't tell the difference.

But, having said that, the four "scientific" tests (in the Police report), were:

45 pts - High-operating-temp braking performance & fade resistance test
25 pts - Normal-operating-temperature braking performance test
20 pts - Panic stop (antilock brake mode) test
10 pts - Ambient-temperature (cold) braking performance test
Total = 100 pts

I really can't comprehend how anyone can judge these things by feel.

 

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#37 ·
Qualitatively speaking, I agree, it is very hard to judge a brake pad's performance, especially when there is no baseline of comparison. My comments reflect the timeframe when you have just changed your pads out and can notice the difference between the old and the new. I found the difference to be noticeable but not significant and you completely adjust to the different feel within a short time. One thing I did not mention is that I believe the "feel" of a brake pad will change slightly over time. Again, impossible to quantify and nearly impossible to qualitatively describe, however, I find my Euros to feel "better" (more like OEM) over time. I did not get this change with the Axxis. Probably my imagination, just like hearing the difference after a Vanos seal change, as I am clearly no Michael Schumacher.

NLECTC performs various product evaluations for law enforcement so their brake pad evaluations are primarily applicable to police applications. Unless you engage in high speed pursuits, track your car, or live high on a mountaintop, the first most heavily weighted test (high operating temp and fade resistance) does not really apply to most casual street drivers. The last three tests are most applicable to casual street drivers, however, these test result components do not appear to be extractable from their data. Hence, their pad recommendations are not really applicable to the casual driver.

The recent Car & Driver has a good article on brake pad failure on a sporty street Nissan that was tracked. This stock car used Akebonos which completely failed due to repeated high speed braking applications. This is an extreme example as they were able to make their brake fluid BOIL! Note: e39s use Type IV brake fluid so this is less of a risk for us! :rofl:

Bottom line: Folks should set up their brakes for how they will be used. For casual drivers like myself, low dust is my priority followed by performance. For a state trooper or track car, a different brake setup (pads, rotors, fluid, etc.) is probably desirable to maximize safety.
 
#39 ·
Qualitatively speaking, I agree, it is very hard to judge a brake pad's performance, especially when there is no baseline of comparison. My comments reflect the timeframe when you have just changed your pads out and can notice the difference between the old and the new. I found the difference to be noticeable but not significant and you completely adjust to the different feel within a short time. One thing I did not mention is that I believe the "feel" of a brake pad will change slightly over time. Again, impossible to quantify and nearly impossible to qualitatively describe, however, I find my Euros to feel "better" (more like OEM) over time. I did not get this change with the Axxis. Probably my imagination, just like hearing the difference after a Vanos seal change, as I am clearly no Michael Schumacher.

NLECTC performs various product evaluations for law enforcement so their brake pad evaluations are primarily applicable to police applications. Unless you engage in high speed pursuits, track your car, or live high on a mountaintop, the first most heavily weighted test (high operating temp and fade resistance) does not really apply to most casual street drivers. The last three tests are most applicable to casual street drivers, however, these test result components do not appear to be extractable from their data. Hence, their pad recommendations are not really applicable to the casual driver.

The recent Car & Driver has a good article on brake pad failure on a sporty street Nissan that was tracked. This stock car used Akebonos which completely failed due to repeated high speed braking applications. This is an extreme example as they were able to make their brake fluid BOIL! Note: e39s use Type IV brake fluid so this is less of a risk for us! :rofl:

Bottom line: Folks should set up their brakes for how they will be used. For casual drivers like myself, low dust is my priority followed by performance. For a state trooper or track car, a different brake setup (pads, rotors, fluid, etc.) is probably desirable to maximize safety.
These are all good points, but I really could care less about the brake dust.
Most opinions/ reviews from guys are always complaining about brake dust.

I am more concerned with the braking power/ braking torque being better than the OEM brakes (Jurid front pads, and Textar rear pads).

The OEM brakes are already amazing as is (stock).
If I am replacing the OEM stuff, it BETTER be an improvement over the OEM stuff!

i have used Axxis brake pads for a long time on many different cars with no problems. i don't like to have dirty wheels the same day i wash the car and Axxis helps so much that i can go a week without cleaning the wheels.

the biggest difference for me is that you have to heat any ceramic pads. i feel that just driving a few blocks (stop & go) warms the pad up to perform the same as oem pads but without all the dust.

All of you guys are referencing "Axxis pads", but fail to mention which Axxis pad...

I know the Axxis Ultimates are supposed to be superior to the Axxis Deluxe pads.
I am looking at the Axxis Ultimate pads.

Thanks!
Jason

so if you start off the oem pad will have a better initial brake bite while cold but when the ceramic pad is heated just a few mins i feel that the braking becomes the same.

not to long ago my cusin was going crazy with all the brake dust on his 2008 535xi that only had 8k mls. the car is covered until 100k mls. at that time no one made dustlees pads for the rear.

i went to Bill at Bimmerclinic in NJ for help, he ordered a set of Textar pads (no dust) for front and rear. when all installed i couldn't tell the diff even before warming them up or even bedding them.

after a few weeks i took the car on a +200 ml trip, when i got home the first thing i checked was his 20" chrome wheels. no dust at all even that his car is heavier with 20's and i drove it well over 100mph (i won't tell here) and pushed it most of the way.

even that i love the Axxis pads, my next brake job will have Textar pads and i hope they work as well.
Which Textar pads?
There are Ceramic Textars pads too.
 
#38 ·
i have used Axxis brake pads for a long time on many different cars with no problems. i don't like to have dirty wheels the same day i wash the car and Axxis helps so much that i can go a week without cleaning the wheels.

the biggest difference for me is that you have to heat any ceramic pads. i feel that just driving a few blocks (stop & go) warms the pad up to perform the same as oem pads but without all the dust.

so if you start off the oem pad will have a better initial brake bite while cold but when the ceramic pad is heated just a few mins i feel that the braking becomes the same.

not to long ago my cusin was going crazy with all the brake dust on his 2008 535xi that only had 8k mls. the car is covered until 100k mls. at that time no one made dustlees pads for the rear.

i went to Bill at Bimmerclinic in NJ for help, he ordered a set of Textar pads (no dust) for front and rear. when all installed i couldn't tell the diff even before warming them up or even bedding them.

after a few weeks i took the car on a +200 ml trip, when i got home the first thing i checked was his 20" chrome wheels. no dust at all even that his car is heavier with 20's and i drove it well over 100mph (i won't tell here) and pushed it most of the way.

even that i love the Axxis pads, my next brake job will have Textar pads and i hope they work as well.
 
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